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ATI Card: AA and AF


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#1 SYN_Flashman

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:51

Hi,

I hope im not going over old ground to much here…I have done some searching, honest!

I have a quad core Q6600 overclocked to 3gig. GFX card is ATI HD4870 1gb running 10.4 with CCC

Question: which controls the AA and AF, CCC or the game settings? or do both need to be the same? The game only allows AA upto 4 but my card can go to 8 with box detect (which I believ is the prefered setting for ROF)

Is Catalyst AI a good idea or should I disable it? What about Adaptive AA? I have that currently set to quality

Having seen a few threads and as a result I have turned off effects and I want to reduce jaggies, mainly at the horizon.

Also, what effects do the quality settings have on frame rate? Im currently running at 36% memory usage and get around 40 FPS on average (lower on deck and in fights). Which settings have the most effect of FPS. The game looks great on lower settings so I would rather have high textures (so cockpit is nice) and fast FPS at expense of grass etc.

Also some setting such as Forest distance dont affect the memory usage, but do they affect FPS much?

Thanks for any advice, I hope its also useful to others with similar questions.

Cheers

Flashman
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#2 Murf

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:42

Good question… I also would like to know this as well… I am curious as to what affects what… ;)
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#3 TX-Gunslinger

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:46

Please see these threads for updated settings for ATI 1 GB boards.

http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=265&t=9212
http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9394

The 2nd thread is about the 5870, but you also have 1GB of VRAM also.

S!

Gunny
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#4 Murf

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 02:53

Well I got an nVidia GeForce XLR8 Performance Edition GTS250 w/1024MB

I think it's a pretty good card… but still not sure what all it is capable of.. :oops: :lol:
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#5 TX-Gunslinger

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 04:22

See this thread for nVidea. Good card …

http://riseofflight....&t=9546&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9546&start=0

S!

Gunny
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#6 Murf

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 05:27

See this thread for nVidea. Good card …

http://riseofflight....&t=9546&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9546&start=0

S!

Gunny

Thanks… yeah… I saw that thread… the funny thing is I don't have ANY shimmering…. my game is a bit stuttery, but no shimmers.

I thought it was a bad idea to have the video set above 25% in the startup screen. :shock:
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#7 TX-Gunslinger

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 05:35

Not necessarily - it depends on what Frame Rate (FPS) you get in game.

So - do you have benchmarking software like FRAPS? You want to achieve 28-30 min - 45 to 50 avg..

Murf pls post all settings - graphics card and ROF in the Nvidea thread… if you can.

I'm headed to sleep, but I'll check here in the AM.

S!

Gunny
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#8 SYN_Flashman

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:33

Hi Gunslinger, thatnks for you pointers to other threads.

One thing I dragged outta there was this tip:

Quoting Gunslinger here

If it says "post_" andwhere in the startup file - then make that entry = 0, like mine below…

Just tested your settings and you have post_drops_enable and post_hdr set to non-zero values. This is why your ROF settings tab is showing higher memory usage…

[KEY = graphics]
filter = 3
forest_distance = 2
forest_quality = 1
full_height = 1200
full_width = 1920
fullscreen = 1
gamma_b = 1.00000
gamma_g = 1.00000
gamma_r = 1.00000
grass_quality = 9
hdr_bright = 0.47000
hdr_contrast = 2.20000
hdr_quality = 0
land_textures = 0
landscape_mesh_quality = 1.00000
multisampling = 2
post_blood_enable = 0
post_bloom_enable = 0
post_blum_enable = 0
post_cinema_enable = 0
post_dof_enable = 0
post_drops_enable = 0
post_effects = 0
post_effects_enable = 0
post_hdr = 0
post_saturation_enable = 0
reflection = 2
saturation = 1
shadows_quality = 2
texmipdown = 0
vsync = 0
win_height = 1024
win_width = 1280
[END]

If this doesn't work - I've noticed one other thing different about our rigs - it looks like you have 1920 X 1080 monitor (HD) and I have 1920 X 1200. You wouldn't think this makes any difference, but I don't know.


I checked, and even though I had all the effects turned off in the startup screen, I still had post_effects_enable = 1. I changed it to 0 and noticed an immediate drop in memory usage from 36 to- 20%

So even though I didnt have any effects selected it was having an impact on my system. If you set post_effect_enable to 0 it greys out the effects on the start up screen.

I only managed a quick test, but I ramped up AA to 4, AF to 8 (in game) and i still had a better frame rate, though the server i went on was a bit empty.

One thing though, Looking through both of those threads didnt fully ansewer one of my questions: Should I have AA and AF in the CCC set to application controlled?

Cheers anyhoo, I have an improvement already
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#9 Gisbod

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:46

Well for me the best is AA/AF application controlled and Catalyst AI disabled.. Im still getting shimmers, but definitely best option (5870)
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#10 JoeCrow

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:54

I have a an ATI4870 with a quad-core and I've found the best results on this card (for me) are to make everything application controlled. The only exception is with the 'box' filter setting selected under AA in CCC. The RoF settings work fine for me with no shimmering or AA problems.
(I've just noticed that I agree with Gisbod (but no shimmers) - and he's an honest chap) ;)
S!
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#11 Gisbod

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 13:10

Thanks Pigsty.. But that's not what the Judge said! :?

I'm at a loss about my shimmers though.. I've got a i920 quad/W7 64bit.. But remain mystified why the shimmers are back.. You don't have them with an ATI card… Just wish I knew what to do!!
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#12 Murf

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 00:52

Not necessarily - it depends on what Frame Rate (FPS) you get in game.

So - do you have benchmarking software like FRAPS? You want to achieve 28-30 min - 45 to 50 avg..

Murf pls post all settings - graphics card and ROF in the Nvidea thread… if you can.

I'm headed to sleep, but I'll check here in the AM.

S!

Gunny

Yeah, I use FRAPS… I get on average after wingmen are airborne about 25fps… once into a fight I drop down to about 20fps… :roll:

I'll try to post my settings as soon as I can Sunday… I'm on a 6 day work week
this week and by the time I get home at midnight I'm pretty beat.

Is there any particular settings or config settings you are looking for, so I can post the correct ones…
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#13 TX-Gunslinger

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 02:03

Murf,

Nvidea control panel settings (I know a lot of stuff - but I'd like to see your complete list)…

then ROF settings

S!

Gunny
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#14 Murf

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 03:58

Murf,

Nvidea control panel settings (I know a lot of stuff - but I'd like to see your complete list)…

then ROF settings

S!

Gunny

I will be very happy to accommodate…
I presume you want to see the file settings and not scrrenies of my settings.
So where do I get them at??

I can take apart an airplane and rebuild it better than new for ya… but when it comes to code/ programming and such… I am an absolute idiot!!! :lol:
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#15 JoeCrow

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 05:45

Thanks Pigsty.. But that's not what the Judge said! :?

I'm at a loss about my shimmers though.. I've got a i920 quad/W7 64bit.. But remain mystified why the shimmers are back.. You don't have them with an ATI card… Just wish I knew what to do!!

Haha. The judge found me 'not guilty' - but told me not to do it again! :D .

I'm mystified by that. I've recently upgraded from a 3-core and performed a clean re-install of XP so that there's nothing nasty lurking in the system files. I don't let CCC interfere with the RoF settings in any way. I run at 1680x1050;AFx8;AAx4.
EDIT: I have not yet installed the latest drivers.
S!
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#16 TX-Gunslinger

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 06:09

HOLD THE PRESSES!

I'm rebenchmarking (god I hate this) - current release. I benchmarked 1.011 and late beta candidates for ATI CCC 10.3 in Vista 64/XP and Nvid - so I'm very familiar with their behavior (I save all my tests).

I reinstalled the 5870 tonight after cleaning out all Nvid and ATI drivers and cabs with DriverCleaner.net.

I then installed CCC 10.4 in Vista 64. Benchmarks are consistently 5fps low for lowest/highest/average measurements.

I need to finish a few more tests in 10.4 then tommorow - uninstall 10.4 and reinstall 10.3 to measure.

If you have 10.3 or earlier installed, I'd recommend you wait to install 10.4 until I can report back.

Some of you who play Il2, will note that mention was made in 10.3 of Il2 problems in the "Known issues list" - which made many of us believe that Il2 issues would be addressed in the 10.4 Cats. Not so. Il2 is still on the Known Issues list.

More tommorrow, I hope…

P.S - it would be nice to fly sometime :ugeek:

S!

Gunny
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#17 JoeCrow

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 07:57

Thanks for the info Gunny!
Will you post the result?
S!
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#18 TX-Gunslinger

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 14:34

Yes, that's what I had intended last night.

I wanted to recheck one of my earlier benchmarks, and found this…

Tonight after work I'll go back to benchmarking. Looks like I'll need to rever to 10.3's to see where the offset is…

S!

Gunny
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#19 Gisbod

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 14:39

Just to add..

I had the shimmers with 10.3 - It was purely 1.012 that brought them on.. I've subsequently updated to 10.4 but to no effect..
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#20 Quax.

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 08:11

I'm at a loss about my shimmers though.. I've got a i920 quad/W7 64bit.. But remain mystified why the shimmers are back.. You don't have them with an ATI card… Just wish I knew what to do!!

With any ATI card you can´t do nothing about the shimmer, because you can´t influence the super/multisampling of the AA. ATI card is doing it by itself, and that is not the best solution for flightsims. Not only ROF has the prob, it´s the same with f.e. FSX.
So you just have to live with it. That makes it better in a few days, because you don´t concentrate on it so much :lol: At least that worked for me.

If somebody tells you, he doesn´t have any shimmer with ATI card, that´s just not true. He perhaps doesn´t know what you call shimmer.
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#21 Gisbod

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 09:28

Well with my ATI HD5870 I had NO shimmers pre 1.012 - But shocking shimmers after.. It's definitely something they tweaked in the graphics to improve frame rate I reckon - Han did say they'd get on the case for 1.013 and try to "undo" what they'd done.. Just keeping my fingers crossed…

You can set the super/multisampling of the AA within the CCC of the Card.. Just that the game has somehow switched it off - No matter whats selected in CCC :(

Shimmer Video..
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#22 Dooga

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 10:57

Thanks for the info Gunny!
Will you post the result?
S!

Hi Pigsty - sorry to hijack this, but you can't be reached via PM any more… on purpose?


On topic: I believe I observe a certain amount of shimmering as well (5850). I've set everything to application controlled, only catalyst AI is on. Relevant RoF settings are maxed out.
I'll try to compare with catalyst AI turned off later today. Also I wanted to wait for 1.013 before investing time in this, as I believe Gisbold wrote somewhere that neoqb plans to address the issue with that patch.
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#23 Quax.

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 16:00

You can set the super/multisampling of the AA within the CCC of the Card.. Just that the game has somehow switched it off - No matter whats selected in CCC :(

Although it is a bit hard to believe for me at the moment, could you please say, what CCC settings you did use ? And please post it here, if you have an improvement with next patches.

I contacted Neoqb re. shimmers and they do recognise the problem.. Apparently, it's to do with the terrain not being AA enabled currently, as it'd be a FPS killer.

Perhaps they could give us the option to switch the "AA enalbed terrain". Because I really would prefer the application control for all graphic settings. Would make things much easier. And we could use the post effects together with AA.
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#24 Gisbod

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 17:53

Well, you can alter these settings within the CCC if that's what you mean?

Attached File  5.PNG   12.64KB   641 downloads


Attached File  7.PNG   11.56KB   806 downloads


These settings cured my shimmer completely pre-1.012.. But have no effect now… :(
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#25 Quax.

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 18:57

I don´t have your Anti-Aliasing Slider ! And so I can´t set it to Super-Sampling. Which version of Catalyst do you run ? (I heard, that ATI deliberately disabled that option. Do you run an older driver ? … or perhaps it is inhibited with my 4770 :cry:
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#26 Gisbod

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 19:39

Latest drivers (10.5 I think?) - It's only available for the 5870 I believe?
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#27 Quax.

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 23:03

Now I learned that the 5770 and 5870 get the SSAA option. I could perhaps upgrade to the 5770
(impossible to cool the 5870 with my heatpipe case).
But first I wait, until you tell me, that a new patch has solved the prob for you :D

PS: Furthermore a report about fps of the 5770 on 2*SSAA and 1900*1200 would be great !
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#28 Gisbod

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 11:47

Will do Udet.. Hopefully not too long before patch release? :P
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#29 Gisbod

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 13:48

Hate to say it.. But shimmer's no better post 1.013 :cry:

Absolutely gutted…
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#30 Quax.

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 09:59

That´s bad, but I can stay with the 4770 until next patch ;)
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