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Will Flying Circus learn from ROF mistakes? Or is it too late?


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#1 mortoma541

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 11:04

Ugghhhh!! In ROF my flight leader glided the wrong way towards the wrong lines with a dead engine. Again! How easy should it be to create AI with just a modicum of "common sense"? Seems like a few extra lines of code could make AI smart enough to glide towards their own side rather than imprisonment in the hands of the virtual enemy. Especially when they have plenty or altitude to easily make it.  :P

 

Or how about the fact that you have to shoot down all or almost all of the enemy (flying single seat fighters) every time? Because the AI, even if they are "aces' can't seem to do the job without you rescuing them. One time I made the mistake of chasing a Eindecker down and when I was gone, Halberstadts had killed all my flight, including the Ai version of Lanoe Hawker. I simply could not get back in time to rescue their sorry derrieres. I swear I can't take these kids anywhere!  :D

 

I just flew 5 missions in a Dr.1 and had 13 kills, which is not realistic. I shot down three Pups and two Camels in about 4 minutes, while my squad mates could not hit anything with their machine guns.

 

Or how about the hyper soft damage model where we hit an enemy and it literally melts in front of us with it's wings flying every where after just a few quick bursts? As if the bullets from our rifle caliber MGs are really 88mm cannons shells.  :icon_mad:

 

Or how about flight models that are inconsistent, where you have a few planes with rotary engines displaying serious gyro and torque effects (a bit too much in some cases) but yet another plane with a rotary flies more like it has an inline engine, so it can turn equally as well in both directions. And sometimes when I fly the Halberstadt scout, it seems more like a rotary, but not all the time. Only when it feels like being a rotary.

 

And some planes can't seem to land without ground looping, even though people fly W.W.1 planes (mostly replicas) all the time and rarely ground loop. There is such a thing as a rudder but some planes land as though they don't have one at all.  :icon_e_sad:

 

Not ranting, just feeling like it's time for a good W.W.1 sim and it should not be too hard with modern technology and coding. They made ROF to be mostly eye candy and thought it was cool to make it too easy to get kills with the super cannon shells and buddies that can even hit the ground with their MGs.  :icon_eek:

 

It also is obvious they purposely don't give you escorts flying in a two-seater flight, possibly because they thought it was good for "game play sake" to make sure you or your gunner have to down the enemy. Pretty sure most two-seat flights had some help in the real war. Unless they were the few two-seaters that also were good fighters, or could fly really fast or high.

 

I am seriously looking at Flying Circus but am waiting for a much larger catalog of planes to fly and also want to see if they will ignore the early war period planes, which so far they have. A huge mistake if that's the route they will take. Something about flying planes like the Bristol Scout and trying to fire a MG that shoots at an weird angle. Or just the joy of flying some of the early planes that can barely fly at all. Used to get lots of kills in the Bristol Scout in WOFF, you get used to sideways Mgs!!  :icon_lol:


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#2 mortoma541

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 03:12

And the one thing that Flying circus will hopefully have is some hangers open at both ends so we can stunt fly through them! This is an absolute prerequisite to creating flight sims, that no developer can ignore. The old 1C IL2 (first generation) has some hangers like that on one of the island maps and I used to enjoy flying a B-25 Mitchell through those hangers. It's a must! And you think I'm kidding? 


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#3 George_Smiley

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 05:35

Frankly I would pay up front for a WW1 Combat Aviation sim that is deep. Really deep.

 

I mean lets pump up our fuel tanks. Right.

MG's with sights and mounts that you can tweak to how you want them.

( If you want you can shoot your own prop of with badly set up MG's...)

 

I am still not wild about the "auto loop" trim of the planes in general. No one seems to

know if this is "real"" or made up.  Anyone care to chime in on that?

And does "tail heavy" mean super looper ? or the tail just wants to hang down...

( there is a difference. Right.)

 

AI ? Never ever ever have gone there seriously. They seem to be crippled to a degree in

how much you can chuck a plane about. With today's PC's you could get machine learning to study real

in game players and then set the AI planes to do that "envelope". 

 

The potential for single player to go nuts in the near future is not lost on some dev's.

In fact it could get spooky. Was that a bot or a real player you might ask.

( Actually you could do a very good project with AI flying a plane in MP... .

would be pretty easy to do. I bet someone has already done it... in some secret lab )

 

We need to break out of this virtual and get real. Real planes and real bullets.

Sort of like the Roman circus. Real WW1 gladiators. Winner gets a castle with all the mod cons.

And life time catering. and health care. additional things as they come to mind.

Merit gets you real VC's or Iron crosses. and free bandages. + brandy.

 

and why not? I ask.

 

and yes, we all can imagine you flying your bomber through a hangar.

Many bridges we have flown under old chum. Oodles. Lots and lots.

 

S!

 

George. ( On my second tube as we speak, cheap industrial cont. brewed cobblers. Cold )


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#4 Zooropa_Fly

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 11:25

Would the real Plank please stand up !


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#5 SeaW0lf

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 15:34

It is the same studio. Why do you think they would do things differently?

 

Flying Circus has a good parser that allows you to play a mini career in multiplayer, but what really separated Flying Circus from Rise of Flight was the original damage model, without shaking planes and with a good balance in between improved gunnery (the real deal) and a sturdy / realistic damage model. That made us all to migrate to Flying Circus overtime.

 

But then they do what they always do and brought a damage model that is a twin sister of the dreaded improved gunnery / shaking planes in ROF. It was like everyone was playing soccer in Flying Circus and they came and took the ball away.

 

As someone here said, the good about ROF is that we know that there are no more updates in the future. With all the flaws of ROF, we can rest assured that tomorrow the game will be the same.


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#6 George_Smiley

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 19:28


As someone here said, the good about ROF is that we know that there are no more updates in the future. With all the flaws of ROF, we can rest assured that tomorrow the game will be the same.

That is an interesting point! ( the old devil you know vs the new devil you don't...)

 

mmm...

 

S!

 

Gergoe


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#7 VonS

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 22:13

Stimulating points gents', but ultimately not much point in complaining about the current - and forever onward, partially-incomplete - state of RoF United.

 

If running it stock, best is to patch it up as much as possible with the excellent and myriad mods. that are available for it. And, if you then find that, even modded, it still is only moderately tolerable - might I also recommend supplementing with WOFF BH&H2 (tis a delish' flight sim., a complete single-player experience, and features handsomely dexterous AI to boot).

 

If for some reason you don't warm up to BH&H2 - there is always the currently unfolding FC series, successor to RoF - which may be purchased, with great hope and optimism for future, fully-fleshed-out WW1 scenarios -- a what-if situation that may, possibly, and eventually, come full circle to the current state of RoF. :icon_lol:

 

Personally, I am enjoying fully-modded RoF with PWCG ver. 16.3.x, the "PWCG modulations" files, the AI/DM mod. (ver. 1.3) for RoF, as well as an improved shader preset for it, loaded via ReShade. Makes for fine, fairly solitary scouting. And occasionally I rack up kills (my Brambles Tillywad III campaign has racked up about 5 or 6 victories after 8 or 9 flights, victories consisting of a few two-seaters, a couple of enemy scouts, and one or two balloons -- seems fairly historical to me, in terms of kills/scarcity of enemy aircraft, etc., with many mods. loaded of course). So, all in all, a decent single-player experience when modded, but obviously not at the full-blown level of WOFF UE/PE/BH&H2.

 

My thoughts are of course only reflections relevant to single-player experiences (since I don't do MP, I have no use for the FC series, etc., and can't give suggestions regarding MP).

 

For the record, I bought all of the single-seater scouts for RoF United around 2018/19, and also the BoM package a bit later (the special ed., also the Hurricane Mk.II addon) - when on sale - largely as novelties and to compare with First Eagles 2 and WOFF. If padlock view worked properly (as in constantly locked-on padlock view) in my IL2-1946 "vpmodpack" install - I probably would not have bothered picking up BoM anyway, but it is what it is.

 

Those interested in making frugal flight-sim purchasing choices based on their preference for single-player flying might want to check over my little WW1 hierarchy of flight sims. post available here.

 

Cheers all and happy flying (in RoF, WOFF, BH&H2, and maybe even in FE2),

Von S :)


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#8 killgor

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 03:28

@:VonS

I have a question about your AI mods and about other mods. I read the readme, but I wanted to ask anyway. I should only activate one mod? You recommend: ROF_AI_Improved_ver1.3_VariedSituational? You mention "PWCG modulations" files. What do they do? Where can I get them? What are other good mods? Where can I get them? Thanks in advance.


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#9 VonS

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 03:50

Hi killgor, the AI/DM mod. is linked to in my signature file (see the link called "AI/DM Mod. & Tweaks" - the mod. itself is hosted in the first post in that thread). Ver. 1.3 of the AI patch is probably the most complete, and aggressive, version of the AI mods. (only activate one of the AI versions at any one time). Also recommended is the DM mod. that's in that package - makes the aircraft in RoF stronger (structurally) - also good, if running the DM mod., is to have improved gunnery in the RoF main menu set to "on."

 

The "PWCG modulations" files are a series of "RofCampaignSpecific" files that change settings, per period of war, in the PWCG (Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator), ver. 16.3.x, so that less aircraft are encountered, so that there are stronger winds occasionally when flying, also situations sometimes in which the enemy put up only a few aircraft or none at all, depending on various factors - the modulations files try to take into account things like engine reliability, lack of aircraft, lack of pilots, accidents, etc. - so that there is much less congestion in the skies than in stock RoF -- particularly in 1916 and 1917 - also changed in those modulations files are dates on which your pilot can fly, so winter months have you skipping several days, on average, between flights, with a bit more flying during the summer. Lots of other things tweaked in there too -- so it becomes more difficult to acquire a large no. of kills, although the odd balloon may be encountered on occasion. (Speaking of balloons, I've slowed down the rate at which they are winched down, in the DM mod., for greater realism.)

 

The "PWCG modulations" files are posted about half way down on the first page of the AI/DM mod. thread, for RoF -- you'll also find there an improved shaders file for RoF too, that may be loaded via ReShade -- and greatly improves spotting of aircraft at distances (sharper graphics implemented with that shaders preset file).

 

For other RoF mods., such as the large "RoF Refined 1.02" package, recommended are the following two links:

 

https://riseofflight...ge-replacement/

 

https://riseofflight...-favorite-mods/

 

(Note: if running my AI/DM mods. in RoF United, avoid older AI and DM mods. included in "RoF Refined" packages - and by Criquet/Gavagai - those mods. were tested on old versions of RoF to about 2013 or 2014 and make the AI behavior even more lethargic than stock AI, if loaded in RoF United -- which is the latest and last edition of RoF.)

 

Good luck with your RoF installation,

Von S  :)


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#10 killgor

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 03:55

How do I install the "PWCG modulations"? Just place them in the RoFCampaign  Folder? Do all these mods work with Iron Cross Edition?


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#11 VonS

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 04:05

The modulations files would go into "Rise of Flight\RoFCampaign\campaigns\YourPilotsName." I have no idea if any of the mods. specified in my previous post would work well in the Iron Cross Ed. -- I suppose it doesn't hurt to try (but my mods. were only tweaked/tested in the United Ed. of RoF). Forgot to include one more link in my post above -- latest skins additions for campaigning in RoF via the PWCG ver. 16.3.x:

 

https://riseofflight...skins-aircraft/

 

For more info. on loading of skins and the intricacies of the PWCG, as well as other technicalities -- I recommend looking at posts/contacting users such as Panthercules, Barkhorn, and Gooseh -- they are the trinity of resident RoF specialists. I am but a mere child in terms of my association with RoF (having only picked up RoF in 2018, no earlier).

 

Cheers all,

Von S  :icon_cool:


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#12 127Tom

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 11:49

I remember at one point the damage model were fine, but then they made it real bad again.
I tried FC again a few weeks ago in the Camel = couple of bullets hit my wing and it fell off lol.
Never uninstalled a game so quickly. 


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#13 mortoma541

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 13:12

I remember at one point the damage model were fine, but then they made it real bad again.
I tried FC again a few weeks ago in the Camel = couple of bullets hit my wing and it fell off lol.
Never uninstalled a game so quickly. 

Wow, that's bad news!! I hope they didn't also go the route of "perpetual bumpy turbulence" with FC like they did with ROF. As an actual real life pilot, I have never been so astounded by how many bumpy rides I get in ROF. Probably because they had the "Gee, lets make this a bit more challenging by making the planes jump around in light turbulence constantly!" attitude. I have nothing against a challenge, I just want realistic challenges, not B.S. fanciful ones.

 

Here's the real life story; Just as in the United States, European skies should get plenty of smooth riding skies! In actuality, I have had more smooth flying than bumpy flying, overall., especially in the wintertime. A typical summer day in the humid and hot eastern U.S. (similar to Europe, but hotter) you usually get smooth rides but maybe one to two thousand feet AGL there might be a bumpy layer. When there are puffy cumulus clouds, with lots of space between them as you ascend or descent though the same layer as the clouds, you indeed can get extremely bumpy rides. I remember once flying over Ohio and descending to land and when I got down to the same altitude as the fluffy clouds (not in the clouds but descending between the spaces where there were no clouds) it felt like there was a giant smacking me with utility poles! Out west, in drier and mountainous places, you can get very bumpy due to the wind over mountains and such. And of course if you are flying anywhere near T-storms (anywhere in the world) it can get ugly but VFR or IFR you generally stay way from storms if you can. Turbulence around storms can tear a plane to shreds!

 

But in ROF you nearly always get turbulent (at least light bumpiness), but some of that is generated by PWCG if you use that program also. Even in the wintertime, the smoothest time to fly normally.


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#14 mortoma541

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 13:20

It is the same studio. Why do you think they would do things differently?

 

Flying Circus has a good parser that allows you to play a mini career in multiplayer, but what really separated Flying Circus from Rise of Flight was the original damage model, without shaking planes and with a good balance in between improved gunnery (the real deal) and a sturdy / realistic damage model. That made us all to migrate to Flying Circus overtime.

 

But then they do what they always do and brought a damage model that is a twin sister of the dreaded improved gunnery / shaking planes in ROF. It was like everyone was playing soccer in Flying Circus and they came and took the ball away.

 

As someone here said, the good about ROF is that we know that there are no more updates in the future. With all the flaws of ROF, we can rest assured that tomorrow the game will be the same.

Actually ROF is now the same studio but originally ROF was developed by 777 studios and then got bought out by 1C. 777 did things way differently and had their own graphics engine and such. I think FC is a bit different and more like IL2 but don't quote me on that, I have not bought FC. Possibly never will because I'm waiting for a sim to be done correctly. Yeah, that's not gonna happen!!


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#15 mortoma541

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 13:30

Would the real Plank please stand up !

Depends on what you mean by "plank'. Is that some slang word from some British dialect somewhere? I know you don't likely mean a plank of wood, or the type of exercise they call a plank. In the U.S., as far as I know, the word plank only means those two things. Those regional dialects really kill me.


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#16 VonS

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 18:51

I hope they didn't also go the route of "perpetual bumpy turbulence" with FC like they did with ROF. As an actual real life pilot, I have never been so astounded by how many bumpy rides I get in ROF. Probably because they had the "Gee, lets make this a bit more challenging by making the planes jump around in light turbulence constantly!" attitude. I have nothing against a challenge, I just want realistic challenges, not B.S. fanciful ones.

 

Always appreciate to read comments from actual pilots regarding turbulence in flight sims. Have always had a hunch that turbulence is done more realistically in sims. that follow the "data tables" approach to FMs, as opposed to the "physics engine" approach of RoF, BoX, etc. - so I am pleased that what I read in the literature is closer to observations of real pilots. Sometimes the data tables approach is described as "flying on rails" (such as in IL2-1946, CFS3, etc.) - but that feeling may be closer to real flying experience. Speaking of perpetual turbulence, the feeling is similar in BoX, and since FC is now, really, an add-on to BoX, I am assuming that it is the same turbulence in FC as in BoX.

 

I don't mind the turbulence in RoF but it does seem scripted at times (or over-amplified by the physics engine I should say). The latest iterations of WOFF do turbulence well, and because it is a data-tables approach, I have managed to mod. some of the relevant files to give hardly any turbulence, only  horizontal winds, in winter, with slightly more turbulence, coupled with horizontal winds, during summer. Also tweak-able are turbulence intervals, which I have re-set to 10 seconds instead of the default 5 secs., and this seems more natural. I think that intervals between turbulence in RoF/BoX, to estimate, are no more than about half-a-second to one sec. in length - and of course are un-moddable by users, as in keeping with the venerable tradition of RoF. :icon_lol:

 

At the other end of the spectrum is First Eagles 2, where turbulence is not modeled, only horizontal winds at higher alts. (3000 feet alt. or above, approximately, with very subtle effects). Same rule applies to Strike Fighters 2, the other sim. by ThirdWire.

 

Cheers all and happy flying (in smooth and turbulent skies),

Von S


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~ FE2 FM & Realism mods.: https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms ~

~ WOFF/WOTR mods.: https://tinyurl.com/WOFFWOTRmods ~

~ WW1 Novel: http://ladyharbury.kissr.com ~


#17 SeaW0lf

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 21:15

Actually ROF is now the same studio but originally ROF was developed by 777 studios and then got bought out by 1C. 777 did things way differently and had their own graphics engine and such. I think FC is a bit different and more like IL2 but don't quote me on that, I have not bought FC. Possibly never will because I'm waiting for a sim to be done correctly. Yeah, that's not gonna happen!!

 

ROF is old and passed through several hands. For example, the flight models were made by a developer that is not with them anymore, so changes in the flight models are almost impossible, but as of late, perhaps 5 or 6 years, it is the same people there.
 
So yes, Flying Circus is made by the same people. We have Ugra making the maps, but the decisions are made by the core, and the core has the same MO. Plus the same CEO. And since FC is just a branch over there, decisions are being made in spite what people talk in the forum. I reckon that some mistakes are made, but for them to screw the DM and bring it to ROF levels (improved gunnery + weak hitboxes + shaking planes) after two years of people praising the original Flying Circus DM, which was really the only thing FC had going for it, shows that it was a desk decision, not based on the player base or based on test flights. And desk decisions in a simulator? Yes, the result is not that surprising. They killed FC right when it was starting to rival the best WWII servers. And that’s a pity, but it happened before, so.
 
Anyways, that's what I meant. Hence why ROF is such a relief, in the way that we know that tomorrow the game will be the same. Almost like they left and now we can play ourselves in peace.
 
And after all that, they are as of this week giving the very first step to fix the Flying Circus damage model, as it was told over there, as if things weren't clear since the first day the new DM was introduced in 2020. So expect a few more years of experiments and frustration until we get somewhat close to what we already had in 2018 when FC was released. 
 
For those who fought to build a player base for Flying Circus since 2018, and I'm one of them, flying there since literally day one, it is a challenge to don't fret. The soccer analogy still holds. But hey, that's the market. This is similar in every niche, from mobiles to computers and sporting items.

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#18 Zooropa_Fly

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Posted 18 October 2021 - 08:26

Depends on what you mean by "plank'. Is that some slang word from some British dialect somewhere? I know you don't likely mean a plank of wood, or the type of exercise they call a plank. In the U.S., as far as I know, the word plank only means those two things. Those regional dialects really kill me.

It's also a sharp, near impossible turn in an N28 .

 

S!


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    Saying find enclosed one son one medal and a note, to, say, he, Won".


#19 127Tom

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 03:36

It's too late. The damage model is horrible = couple of bullets in your wings and they break. At least on the allies planes. 
Last I played it I was in a dogfight with a Dr.1. I shot so many bullets in it. I could see the puffs and hearing the bullets hit. I hit mainly around the engine / pilot area and a lot on the tail.
It didn't even start to smoke or seem to be taking any damage. If I had done that in RoF the Dr.1 would be toast for sure.
 

Next round a Dr.1 hit me with a couple of bullets many hundred meters away. As I just pulled the stick a bit for a left turn my wing broke.
I never uninstalled a game so fast.
Also the problem with Flying Circus is that it uses the il2 base engine. So you have to install every game module you own, and now it's almost 80 GB or more. 
There are also a lot of bugs that wasn't in RoF = strange balloon spinning when you shoot it down. The balloon draw distance is also horrible = pop in.
Also the planes disappear in mid air if you kill pilot too quick. 
Not to mention the sound = the machine gun sound is horrible and sound the same on every plane.
The whole thing feels like a cheap copy+paste job


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#20 127Tom

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 03:39

I also must mention that the planes feels too light, almost like paper in Flying Circus. Not sure why. Maybe it's something to do with the sound?
The engines sounds too weak and dull. And when you land you don't get that feel of weight and wheel sound RoF has. 
in RoF the planes feel just "right". 
I also think the graphics in Flying Circus looks too cartoony when you fly high up. Especially around the lakes and rivers. 

In RoF I get a real sense of height and flying. Better wind sounds too. 


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#21 Barkhorn1x

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 12:47

I also must mention that the planes feels too light, almost like paper in Flying Circus. Not sure why. Maybe it's something to do with the sound?
The engines sounds too weak and dull. And when you land you don't get that feel of weight and wheel sound RoF has. 
in RoF the planes feel just "right". 
I also think the graphics in Flying Circus looks too cartoony when you fly high up. Especially around the lakes and rivers. 

In RoF I get a real sense of height and flying. Better wind sounds too. 

I agree here.  I own FC1 & FC2 and just can't get into them the way I can with RoF.  Oh well.  At least I supported Jason and the team with some cash.


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#22 127Tom

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 03:29

Well, maybe something good will come out it in the future? RoF 2? or FC 3 with new engine?
How is FC2? Any difference in damage model / graphics / flight? Or is it just another plane DLC?


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#23 Zooropa_Fly

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 08:54

I've not been flying for a while, but they have apparently fixed the 'control cable' issue.

 

Funny - I find the FC planes 'heavy' compared to RoF !

Always figured it was the 'atmosphere', since the FM's on the whole were meant to be the same.


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".. and they'll send you home in a pine overcoat, with a letter to your Mum,

    Saying find enclosed one son one medal and a note, to, say, he, Won".


#24 SeaW0lf

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 11:47

They fixed (rolled back) the control cable issue, but the folding wings and shaking planes persists. I flew a couple missions in single player and the Camel is like a cardboard plane.

 

Last week they said that 'they are giving the first step now to looking at the problem and there is no timetable planned or when the fix will come', and there are a lot of players posting tracks for them to look at it. Poor guys, but I think they knew it better.

 

Mind you that improved gunnery + weak hitboxes + shaking planes, which is pretty similar to what they have now in Flying Circus was a problem in ROF for years, being one of the reasons why the developers made bullet dispersion* the official ballistics for ROF. Then I'm not really sure why they need time to study the problem after almost two years of watching the server [s] get empty. They know this problem for a decade now and they know the fix, which is to bring it back to the original DM standards or something close to it, because it was the DM everyone was touting about and using as a pitch to convince people to migrate to FC, because it was really a decade ahead of ROF. Then they could improve, make the DM more complex, but already having a consistent / proved base to work on.

 

*Please, I am not suggesting them to bring bullet dispersion to Flying Circus. That would be the final nail to the coffin.

 

I do hope the fix comes sooner than later, because those initial two years of Flying Circus were epic. The parser and streaks / medal system are great.


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#25 127Tom

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 23:12

In RoF when I get shot it just feels right: Okay he got a lot of bullets in me; I am wounded, oiled up, plane shaking, but I can at least maybe make it back to base.
In FC = 3 bullets hit me and my entire plane breaks down like a crisp flatbread. 
Not to mention the sniper gunners and sniper flak as you approach a balloon. 
The game is really not enjoyable at all. It feels so unrealistic and weird compared to RoF. What on earth happened to this team?


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#26 VonS

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 02:13

The game [FC] is really not enjoyable at all. It feels so unrealistic and weird compared to RoF. What on earth happened to this team?

 

For what it's worth - my thinking on the subject leads me to the following conclusion (I don't own FC and I'm not interested in the FC series since I don't do MP, by the way - and I admit, for the record, that I am more biased in favor of the WOFF series since WOFF suits my WW1 campaigning style more thoroughly) - but , to the topic of FC ...

 

Considering that the BoX series uses a physics/sim. engine that is tailored to WW2 flight dynamics, aircraft, damage modeling, FMs, etc. - such oddities will always, or at least often, happen in the FC series since it is not possible to separate the game/sim. engine into two different ones (FC being a part/add-on of the BoX series). It likely would have been better had the FC series followed its own "fork" of a physics engine taken from BoX and had it been developed more specifically in the direction of WW1 flight dynamics. That way, it would have been standalone, and in a way it would have functioned as a continued development, or later iteration, of what RoF had also, already done within its own standalone universe.

 

In short, it's a question of game design philosophy - the people developing the BoX series concluded that FC would function in more logical/financial terms (for them) as an add-on to BoX - but the end result (in terms of overall flight realism, etc.) might have been more satisfactory to the end-user had the FC series begun as a standalone series, or was forked off of, and further developed, from the BoX core.

 

No point in my speculating further on the topic - but wanted to share my own two (three?) cents on the topic since you posed a good and relevant question. Compare for example First Eagles 2 with Strike Fighters 2 (while they share the same underlying engine, there are still several different things about them, such as how air density is modeled, for example - with less air density it seems in FE2 - if you drop a Corsair (F4U) from SF2 into FE2, its top speed shoots up by about 130 kph, into unhistorical values, and so on).

 

However, the more that different simulators are forked from their underlying physics (or data tables-based) engine that may have been common across more than one sim. - the more developer maintenance there is, and also the greater the chance that some of those simulators will eventually become abandoned, with no further development (such as has been the case with FE2).

 

So, difficult choices for developers - but also often difficult (and not so satisfactory) results for end-users, depending on what happens regarding underlying physics engines. Personally, I think that it would have been best for the end-user had RoF continued to be developed, with further modifications to FMs, the physics engine, also to MP technicalities, etc., for those who like MP - and that the BoX series should have stuck strictly with the WW2 arena/time-frame (as the "revamped" successor to IL2-1946). Anyway - it is what it is.

 

Cheers all and happy RoFing (or FC-ing if you are into FC),

Von S :icon_cool:


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~ FE2 FM & Realism mods.: https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms ~

~ WOFF/WOTR mods.: https://tinyurl.com/WOFFWOTRmods ~

~ WW1 Novel: http://ladyharbury.kissr.com ~


#27 Kelp44

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Posted 27 October 2021 - 21:30

New FC 4.605 update out with an Advanced Quick Mission Generator  .

Only the final FC map is needed to get it there ... So some more patience there needed. :icon_e_wink:


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#28 SeaW0lf

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Posted 28 October 2021 - 10:44

Did I miss something? The Advanced Quick Mission Generator is nothing more than the regular Quick Mission with a few templates like recon, bomb runs and escorts. As far as I know, you can't generate a new mission, create waypoints and time departures or change anything. 

 

Is that it? Does anyone here remember Red Baron Mission Generator? When we could click on an airfield and select squadrons, create the waypoints, time of departure, plane behavior and so on so forth? You could do that to several squadrons on both sides of the mud, and the waypoints allowed for you to create different points where you would face opposition at different points of the route. It was totally insane and I might have cut a hole through the CD after so many times I fired that game just because of that mission generator.

 

At least from what I saw, the 'Advanced' is just the regular quick mission with some templates. Or did I miss something?


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#29 Kelp44

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Posted 28 October 2021 - 14:38

Seems to be that.
Only Jason precised it is a first instalment with more detail to add later on ...


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#30 SeaW0lf

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Posted 28 October 2021 - 15:43

Yup, it seems so. I tried again, clicked on the screen, airfields, right clicked on the icons, nothing. It is just the same quick mission generator. 

 

Let's hope that they open the possibility for interactive, friendly clickable waypoints and all the bling down the road.


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