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The Belgians


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#1 Gooseh

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  • Posts: 2049

Posted 08 June 2021 - 16:04

Howdy all.

 

As Stuart Hall used to say on It's A Knockout "HERE COME THE BELGIANS!" I've been having a look at the templates for entente planes, mostly because I couldn't bear looking at that FE2b any more, and thought a foray into the colourful world of the Belgians might be a reasonably manageable project to have a go at.  Haven't done much research as yet so these are very much a WIP, but the templates have come out quite nicely I think.

 

Is there any love for the Belgians?

 

Attached File  1.jpg   1.54MB   0 downloadsAttached File  1.jpg   1.69MB   0 downloads

 

Shall I go on? Any help with research would be appreciated of course.

 

S!


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#2 FliegerEins

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 00:11

Yes! Please go on. I am very interested. I may have to wait until my day off to see if I have any material that I would be more than happy to share with you. Thank you again! S!  :icon_e_smile:  :icon_e_salute:


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#3 LAS_Topo

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 01:30

:icon_mad:


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#4 FlyingSaucer99

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  • Posts: 7

Posted 09 June 2021 - 16:56

Go ahead Gooseh. it would be nice to finally have some camo skins, especially for the belgian hanriot, instead of that boring "plain silver".

(0_fs.jpg0_fs.jpgObs.: Willy Coppens blue hanriots would be awesome!)

 

Some material: http://www.theaerodr...ead.php?t=73041

0_fs.jpgHanriot%2BHD.1%2B-%2BBEL.png

0_fs.jpg

 

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#5 Gooseh

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  • Posts: 2049

Posted 09 June 2021 - 17:16

Thank you for that FlyingSaucer99!  I had done some reading about Coppens and the good thing about aces in PWCG is you can make as many skins for them as you like. I did 5 Alb DV for MvR...Can't do that for the basic pilots though.

 

As far as I know he's the only Belgian ace we have in PWCG (?) but we could add some more perhaps (Mr Barkhorn)

 

What I do need is some decent quality images squadron insignia. 11 is covered but there were more than one thistle used for 1/9 crates and a number of different comet styles for 10.

 

I also need a good image of the holly symbol for 3 eme Observation. There used to be a good Belgian website with images on that I had seen before but I can't seem to find it now.

 

Did the Belgians actually manufacture planes?  I kind of doubt it so I'm guessing their colours were painted over French/British roundels in the field? Certainly most all of the contemporary photographs I have seen the rudder identification markings aren't like the manufacturers ones.

 

Anyway, any help is always appreciated. 

 

Cheers...


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#6 Barkhorn1x

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Posted 10 June 2021 - 14:38

Been MIA for a bit.

 

That stated, here is a list of Belgian WWI aces - 6 total:

 

http://www.theaerodr...lgium/index.php

 

So, yup Coppens is the only one currently in PWCG.

 

Belgians relied on France to supply their a/c AFAIK.


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#7 Gooseh

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Posted 10 June 2021 - 16:24

Well I think there's a couple in there that should be in game....given some of the irrelevant dross that squeezed in of the boche front!

 

Anyway, I've been having fun, very complicated these Belgians! I'm not at all convinced by the veracity of some of the profiles out there, as far as I know there were no silver doped N11's, but it seems Coppens had one! I read  about a conversation between Coppens and Dan san Abbot where he described one of his blue crates as being turquoise, and he was quite adamant about it, so there's one here...I've found 6 different Hanriot he flew but not schemes for all of them. 

 

Attached File  A.jpg   1.66MB   0 downloadsAttached File  B.jpg   1.28MB   0 downloadsAttached File  C.jpg   1.02MB   0 downloads

 

Good fun though, nice change from black crosses!

 

S!


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#8 FlyingSaucer99

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Posted 11 June 2021 - 14:20

Owww! This skins look fire! Nice work.

Making a quick research, I came across with a silver dope nieuport 11 (probably one of the few - or the only - in all the belgium air service), belonged to someone called E. Thiffry, of the 5ème escadrille. Maybe worth take a look on it (sorry again about the bad quality image :unsure: )

 

Blue-Rider-1-72-Royal-Belgian-Military-A

 

Another thing that I came across with is the scarce material about the Strutters and Pups in the belgium service. There are only a couple of reliable documented paintskins for the Strutter (like the example above - but with the right PC12 camo tone: https://forum.ww1air...p?topic=7677.0)- and the one preserveted in brussels military museum - but for the pups...


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#9 Gooseh

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Posted 11 June 2021 - 15:26

Thanks for that, I had seen the Strutter in the museum, and also found a photo of Flying-Fox. 

 

Attached File  dcfb91edc94380ed18b3ab7b5c0fdda7.jpg   41.53KB   0 downloads

 

We don't have 4th in PWCG, only the 3rd, which sported a nifty piece of holly as their squadron marking so I've gone with that *roughly* as it was represented on their Bréguet 14s, of which I also have a contemporary photo.

 

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As far as silver N11s go, I suspect that's just a misrepresentation on the profile makers part, but in ROF, as long as it's historically plausible I'm happy to go with it.....especially if it adds a bit of variety.

 

S!

 

 

 

 


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#10 FlyingSaucer99

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Posted 12 June 2021 - 01:11

Yes, I thought the silver nieuport 11 a little bit weird too. But accordingly with a real old topic (of 2005 or 2008, I don´t remember exactly) that I was reading today in The Aerodrome about the colors of nieuports 11/16, there where a few (and when I say "few", it's like 2 or 3) silver belgium nieuports of that type. 

But they were Nieuports 16 - so the best we could say is that this skin would be "semi-historical" or "almost historical". 

Obs.: one thing that I did not undestand or find is that this couple "silver belgium nieuports 16" were all silver (fuselage + wings) or were like the belgium nieuports 17/23, with the silver fuselage with greenish wings.


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#11 Gooseh

Gooseh
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Posted 18 June 2021 - 16:26

Hi all....
 
So I was planning to do a re-jig of the entente planes, to produce a load of new skins for PWCG but I've hit a wall that has been gratingly evident forever. The templates that the devs released were, in a multitude of ways, garbage. I could go into detail but what's the point? There are many workarounds that I figured out while I was doing the axis planes that went well beyond the simple act of drawing a straight line on a flat surface, but I have now reached the point that I really can't be arsed anymore.
 
To demonstrate, here's an obvious example with the Nieuport 17 template...I found a nice photo of a Nieuport (23?) for Andre de Meulemeester. All I want to do is paint a simple straight sided box on the side of his plane....in this case the N17, since we don't have the N23.
 
Attached File  1.jpg   207.03KB   0 downloads
 
On the template, given it's a flat plane on the side of the fuselage of the N17, I create a box similar to what I can see on the photo. Seems Simple right?
 
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When I do this, and bring it into the game I see this? Now there is NO LOGICAL reason for this anomaly.....it's a FLAT PLANE...it's a STRAIGHT LINE? THE GUIDES PROVIDED on the template demonstrate this, the ACTUAL AEROPLANE ITSELF demonstrate this.. There are NO CURVES OR BULGES in this part of the plane? Why is this happening?  Ask the devs...I have NO IDEA, but EVERY SINGLE template suffers from this kind of weird and unexplainable fault somewhere or other, and working around these is a massive pain the the arse.
 
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So I am hanging up my skinning boots. I'd love to say I'm moving on to FC, like the devs would like ROF community to, (I did try, and it cost me the price of FC) but sadly any issues with templates and 3D models have, and will continue to be, simply ported into FC, and in many ways made significantly worse by the design team they have employed to do that job. Be warned potential skinners....if you've an eye for detail then ROF/FC is not for you!
 
S!

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#12 Barkhorn1x

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Posted 18 June 2021 - 16:53

Well, you did all you could here.


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#13 Gooseh

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Posted 18 June 2021 - 17:07

I had a nibble at it....I'm full now!


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