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Logitech G940 Rudder Mod - Question


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#1 SeaW0lf

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 21:13

Hi guys, I think my G940 rudder pot is at the end of its life. It always had spikes, as most G940 owners can attest, but over the last year or so I'm having real difficulties to align the plane for a shot*. Sometimes I get a clean shot, but most of the times it is a struck of luck. It is not that enjoyable anymore and it affects my performance and even maneuvers.

*I cleaned it and everything the best way possible.
 
I found this thread that seems to be from Sokol (seems just like him): https://forums.mudsp...rudders/3301/17
 
He says: "A good option, not too cheap like the above but not too expensive: replace the pot with Bi-Tech 6120 HALL sensor - pay attention in "electric angle and don’t get the wrong model. :slight_smile: Will be need some change in axis placement, but is wired like a conventional pot."
 
 
From the looks of it, it seems to be like a normal pot. I have no problem to adapt the axis placement (I'm good with tools). 
 
My question is: do I only need to adapt the axis placement and wire the wires just like the original pot that I have in my G940? That would be ideal, since I can't grasp the arduino mod and there is no tutorials out there for the wiring process.
 
Anyways, I appreciate any input. I was going to buy a VKB rudder from Aliexpress (which is pretty reliable to me) but the buggers removed the standard shipping and DHL not only makes the price double, but it means that I'm goona be 100% taxed in Brazil (the standard shipping goes through the Brazilian mail and is a 50% chance to be taxed on pricy products), which means the product will cost more than three times the original price, since the taxing is over the combined price of the product and the shipping.

Anyways, I'm looking for options to fix my pedal.

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#2 Arty_Effem

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 22:05

Looking at the datasheet, the terminals of this device are clearly labelled, so all you have to do is connect a voltmeter to the existing pot to determine and note which is +V, wiper and -V.  Then connect those wires to the corresponding terminals on the new device.


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#3 SeaW0lf

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 22:17

Cool, that's what it looked like to me, I just wasn't sure.

 

Thanks. I'll try to order it.


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#4 Arty_Effem

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 22:28

Cool, that's what it looked like to me, I just wasn't sure.

 

Thanks. I'll try to order it.

Make sure you get the one with a rotation angle closest to your existing pot.

 

Did you see this post?


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#5 SeaW0lf

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 22:40

Make sure you get the one with a rotation angle closest to your existing pot.

 

Did you see this post?

 

Yeah, I did the spike fix a few months after I bought the G940. The problem is on the pot itself (for all acounts, Logitech used cheap pots that spiked out of the box).

I'll check the rotation angle. I think Sokol states the angle in the same post.


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#6 SeaW0lf

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 05:45

From the list of sensors, it is the 0-60º one. Sokol was saying the ideal is from 30 to 60º to maintain a good resolution (bits). I will order through a router as soon as I get it figured out, most likely Shopfans. From DHL, directly from the store, the cost will come close to a brand new Saitek pedal here in Brazil (lol). From Shopfans the cost is pretty reasonable.
 
I'll update the process for whoever is interested. I might take a while though. I'm not sure when I'll have the time to see it through. The world is not that globalized yet (lol). 

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#7 SeaW0lf

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Posted 26 January 2021 - 04:31

I just ordered two of the 6127V1A60L.5. I’m just waiting on the credit card confirmation. If it does not go through, I'll pay with PayPal. I'm using a forwarding service. The Brazilian mail has a branch in Miami.
 
I'll let you guys know [if it worked out].

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#8 SeaW0lf

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 18:32

The buggers finally arrived. I'll test it as soon as have some time. I'll post the results here.

Attached Files


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#9 SeaW0lf

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 02:52

Yesterday I had some time to test it. The sensor did not fry, which is a good thing (the black wire is the ground), but it did not work properly. It would reset the pedal to the left, but that's all. The controller might be running with 3.5V (sensor is 5V) to compensate for the bad quality pot, according to Sokol.

 

So I have to buy an arduino and make it a standalone pedal.

 

Back to square zero. It might take me a year or two to figure the arduino puzzle.


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#10 Arty_Effem

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 18:10


So I have to buy an arduino and make it a standalone pedal.

 

 

 

 

I don't see any reason to do that.  Provided nothing other than the original sensor is defective, your pedal unit already comprises everything required.

 

When you tested the new sensor, were you able to read a varying voltage at Vout as you rotated the shaft?


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#11 SeaW0lf

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 19:48

When you tested the new sensor, were you able to read a varying voltage at Vout as you rotated the shaft?

 

I don't have a multimeter. I just connected the wires and tested it. From what Sokol writes, these controls are 5V, hence why he referred that hall sensor, but since Logitech used a poor pot, they lowered the voltage to 3.5V to prevent spikes. I think this is what they did with the Thrustmaster one. Or something like it.

 
So if the hall did not work, it is because the G940 is 3.5V. So I would have to buy an arduino for the hall to work with 5V.

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#12 Arty_Effem

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 19:57

 

I don't have a multimeter.

 

 

Fix that problem first, then make decisions based on measurements.


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#13 SeaW0lf

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 20:08

Fix that problem first, then make decisions based on measurements.

 

But the question is, if the sensor did not work, the multimeter will not help. Better to buy the arduino, because then I know it is going to work. Now if I had the option to buy 3.5V sensors, the multimeter would help me to determine which sensor should I get.

 

I have no choice other than to buy the arduino and make it a standalone pedal with the MMjoy2 firmware.


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#14 SeaW0lf

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 20:25

I'm trying to simplify things, because these electronics mods are a maze. Back then I watched a video to see how to use the multimeter and the guy talked as the viewers were electricians. I watched a couple more videos and gave up, hence why I tested the sensor without being sure that the blak wire was the ground, because Sokol said that if the wires were wrong, only the sensor would fry. So I gambled with the sensor.
 
I'm gonna get the arduino board and open a post showing the three wires, the board and ask in an arduino forum where each wire goes on the board, because this is the only way I'm gonna get this done.
 
I don't even regret to have bought the sensors because they are pot like, and this is going to make things simpler, even if later on I decide to build a DIY pedal.

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#15 Arty_Effem

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 23:30

But the question is, if the sensor did not work, the multimeter will not help.

 

 

A multimeter always helps because it allows you to determine what is happening, when otherwise you're just shooting in the dark.  If you had a meter, you would have certainty about which wire on the original pot does what.  That would allow you to wire the new sensor with certainty.  The only uncertainty a meter creates is how you ever managed without it.

 

A multimeter has two leads with probes. Set it to a suitable voltage range then having determined the two locations across which you wish to measure a voltage, touch one probe to one location and the other probe the remaining location. That's it.

 

If I were faced with your situation, I would reconnect the original pot to determine:

 

1. The voltage supplied to the potentiometer.  If this meets the minimum required by the sensor, it should work provided that when connected, the sensor doesn't cause this voltage to drop.

    If the voltage is too low, that problem can addressed.

 

2. The voltage range appearing at the pot's wiper terminal as the pedals move through their full range.  This voltage is best measured relative to the 0v line, not either of the remaining terminals on the pot, as neither of these may be necessarily connected directly to 0v or +5v.

 

Armed with the above data, you would be able to determine why your new sensor does not work and what remedial action can be taken.

 

Even if you obtain an Arduino and associated software, you will still need a sensor and you will still be faced with the same task of interfacing it.


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#16 SeaW0lf

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 00:19

Even if you obtain an Arduino and associated software, you will still need a sensor and you will still be faced with the same task of interfacing it.

 

I might do that, but chances are very slim that the controler is giving 5V to the sensor. When Sokol said about the 3.5V thing, I think he was like "I forgot to mention that Logitech tweaked the voltage to compensate for the bad pot".

 

I'll see what can I do. Thanks for the imput.


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#17 Arty_Effem

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 02:48

I might do that, but chances are very slim that the controler is giving 5V to the sensor.

 

Having read the datasheet for that device, it's clear that it must be powered directly from the +5v and 0v rails, not the +v and -v wires going to the pot.  Those two should be left disconnected and their ends insulated.  The attached schematic shows the way I would connect it:

Attached File  hall_sensor_diag.gif   12.04KB   0 downloads


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#18 SeaW0lf

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 04:02

Having read the datasheet for that device, it's clear that it must be powered directly from the +5v and 0v rails, not the +v and -v wires going to the pot.  Those two should be left disconnected and their ends insulated.  The attached schematic shows the way I would connect it:

attachicon.gifhall_sensor_diag.gif

 

Cool, thanks a lot! I'll try it. Maybe next month. I'm slammed for the next couple weeks.

Cheers,


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#19 SeaW0lf

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Posted 30 May 2021 - 13:08

Well, since I have to mod the mod, I decided to build a pedal myself and use the Freejoy controller. The G940 is too narrow and the pedal travel is not that smooth.

 

I got a bushing / bearing with a 50mm internal diameter (this thing is huge and heavy). The bearing runs very smooth. I found these pieces of wood and I will build a firts one (if I can get there). I'm gonna do some cuts to make it lighter and all. I ordered a tool to drill perpendicular holes as well. If everything runs smooth, I'll design a new one in the future (not attached to WWI designs). I'll open a separate thread. If the sensor has good quality, I won't need another pedal for the rest of my life.

 

As a reference, the 'pedal board' has 570mm. My G940 has 360mm.

 

YHxvLYj.jpg


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#20 Arty_Effem

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Posted 30 May 2021 - 20:47

Well, since I have to mod the mod, I decided to build a pedal myself and use the Freejoy controller. The G940 is too narrow and the pedal travel is not that smooth.

 

I got a bushing / bearing with a 50mm internal diameter (this thing is huge and heavy). The bearing runs very smooth. I found these pieces of wood and I will build a firts one (if I can get there). I'm gonna do some cuts to make it lighter and all. I ordered a tool to drill perpendicular holes as well. If everything runs smooth, I'll design a new one in the future (not attached to WWI designs). I'll open a separate thread. If the sensor has good quality, I won't need another pedal for the rest of my life.

 

As a reference, the 'pedal board' has 570mm. My G940 has 360mm.

 

 

 

 

Could you show a sketch of the intended assembly?


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#21 SeaW0lf

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Posted 31 May 2021 - 03:20

Could you show a sketch of the intended assembly?

 

I'm not sure yet, still looking for a way to join the pedal bar to the bearing. Could be a metal axle, could be wood. I might even find another pedal bar. Since the sensor is just like a pot, I just need to build housing for it, which may be linked to the way I’ll fix the axle to the pedal bar. I do have some housing cups [for the pot] already sorted.

 

We'll see. Thanks for the help.


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#22 SeaW0lf

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 04:31

So I opened the G940 pot and cleaned it back to normal. The contact tracks seem to have a varnish layer or something. I just wiped with WD40, cleaned the contact prongs with a brush and it got back to normal. Still a pot, but the spikes are gone in general. It surprised me because the contact track is not exposed. It has a protective layer. The cleaning process is safe, just to be careful with the cover clamps.

 

https://riseofflight...86-g940-owners/

 

The DIY pedal is still shelved due to lack of time. Would be good to fly with hall sensors, but it is not that critical now.


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#23 me72

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Posted 14 September 2021 - 10:18

Hi,

 

If somebody is interested in a Hall sensor mod of G940 pedals, here's what I did.

 

The idea came when building the Authentikit Spitfire controls (https://authentikit.org/spitfire-mkix/) - based on the same approach I designed a 3d case for a hall effect sensor that can be used with the Leo Bodnar BU8036A board.

The BU board, compared to Arduino, is plug and play as well has better analog resolution AFAIU.

I'm using the Universal Hub from the project to connect all Spit controls plus my modded G940 pedals.

 

The prototype is a drop-in replacement to the G940 rudder pot which consists of simple 4 piece 3d printed case to host A1324LUA-T, a 6700ZZ bearing and 5mm cube magnet.

It's connected to the BU board via RJ45 cable (or whatever method one could think of here).

Starting to play with it - so far it looks nicely.

If somebody is interested I can share STL files.

 

 

Some photos are here:

https://photos.app.g...bG3AgM6yT9XmuG7

https://photos.app.g...CEx9C1m84ZiJHX9

 

Cheers,

Rafal


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#24 SeaW0lf

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Posted 14 September 2021 - 19:49

Hi,

 

If somebody is interested in a Hall sensor mod of G940 pedals, here's what I did.

 

The idea came when building the Authentikit Spitfire controls (https://authentikit.org/spitfire-mkix/) - based on the same approach I designed a 3d case for a hall effect sensor that can be used with the Leo Bodnar BU8036A board.

The BU board, compared to Arduino, is plug and play as well has better analog resolution AFAIU.

I'm using the Universal Hub from the project to connect all Spit controls plus my modded G940 pedals.

 

The prototype is a drop-in replacement to the G940 rudder pot which consists of simple 4 piece 3d printed case to host A1324LUA-T, a 6700ZZ bearing and 5mm cube magnet.

It's connected to the BU board via RJ45 cable (or whatever method one could think of here).

Starting to play with it - so far it looks nicely.

If somebody is interested I can share STL files.

 

 

Some photos are here:

https://photos.app.g...bG3AgM6yT9XmuG7

https://photos.app.g...CEx9C1m84ZiJHX9

 

Cheers,

Rafal

 

Cool, I'll take a look. What is almost impossible for me to figure is the wiring of the arduino. So far I have seen no tutorial to how to wire the arduino. What people do is tutorials for the firmware and the sensor assemble. I think for most people the challenge is where each wire goes to, both in the sensor and the arduino, controller. Without that, I believe you must do some sort of training with an instructor / electrician.
 
I fixed the pot. Finally opened it and cleaned with Wurth. I was afraid to break it or wipe the contacts (tracks) away, but the contacts have a varnish, so I don't think they even burn with sparks, a common occurrence in cheap pots.
 
But I would love to use the hall sensor that I bought. 
 
I'll write back if I need some assistance / if you are able to help.
 
Appreciated!

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#25 SeaW0lf

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 01:21

Ah, got it, it is not a tutorial.
 
Mounting the pedals is a simple thing. There are some tutorials and even some 3D models for people to download and print. What I never found was how to connect the hall sensor to the arduino/controller. Like red wire from 5V goes to / and so on so forth. Weird, since there are several tutorials on how to assemble the pedals or how to set the firmware.
 
I've seen electronic spreadsheets and graphs showing how to connect the sensor, but for that you need to be an electronics technician or an arduino buff.
 
Anyways, maybe one day I'll get the hang of it and I'll make some videos showing how to really make a DIY pedal, explaining the difference in between arduino types, sensors and some models to purchase and where. At the moment, Aliexpress seems to be the best place to find and import things. For example, the Bodnar board with taxes (imported from their website) would cost me half the price of the VKB pedal. Just one board, which is never the ideal. When I bought the sensors, I bought two. In fact the sensors cost me half the price of the VKB. So is there any other option on Aliexpress with the same resolution of the Bodnar board? Who knows? 
 
Perhaps if I was retired I could take on that task.

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#26 George_Smiley

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 06:13

 What I never found was how to ...
 

 

 

Hello!

 

I have done it.  I used the MMJoy firmware. and nutted out the rest with some fuming.

 

It is given that you will have had experience with other chips with inputs etc etc which is where the problem starts.

What if you do not?

 

I set up my board to have X Y and yaw and a trigger. So that is three analog and one digital input.  ( digital is simply on off in this case.)

 

The analog inputs go into the internal Analog to Digital Convertors. ADC and the digital input is simply registered. ( is it on or off at this time... )

 

MMJoy tell the Micro Controller Unit to config itself in such away as to have 3 ADCS and 1 Digital input and they are these "pins" .

 

Attached File  Pins_Sparkfunpromicro.jpg   183.8KB   2 downloads

 

 

If you look at the board schematic you see that some holes on the MCU  board, they are "pins" , so "pin" A3 [f4] is the 5th down on the right side.

In MMjoy you set that pin to "ADC input". then you wire up a Pot or Hall sensor output to that pin.   

with pots there is the right way and wrong way to do this, with the hall sensor the pin out schematic shows you which pin

on the sensor is what. I use halls....

 

https://docs.rs-onli...66b8106a158.pdf

 

This is special :

 

The A1324/25/26 feature factory programmed sensitivities of 5.0 mV/G, 3.125 mV/G, and 2.5 mV/G, respectively

 

You want the A1324 one.... if you use any other you will not get full deflection !!!!! I made this mistake. ... what a twit!

 

 

So you can wire on hall and set the MMjoy firmware to have the A3 [f4] input as an ADC and have a one input usb device .

Once you get this up and running then you can expand.

 

The MMjoy firmware is not exceptionally intuitive so you have to do some fiddling till you get it right. But you can't really break anything.

Never unplug it while it is writing to the MCU. Or you will "brick" it.

 

You can wire straight to the board if you like, if you are doing a very simple setup up.

 

Hope this helps!

 

S!

 

George.

 

PS. in windows you will have a new device : MMjoy xx and in the game you will see MMJoy xx. You will need to check it works in windows device thingy. If it is working there you are good to go. If it looks weird then some thing is wrong and needs to be fixed. Start off with one ADC input and get it right before going nuts.

 

PPS. another easy way is to use a 3d pro MCU board as your base. I used this for my throttle button box. has three centered ADC and one "slider" ADC. I use the slider as throttle and centered as Mixture etc. ( center the centered controls when you turn PC on...) the slider  is non centered so it can be anywhere when you power on PC.  S! G.

 

PPS. It was aaaaaaaaages ago I did this so I may have missed bits out/fluffed other bits and/or maybe taken liberties... S!


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