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Just Starting Out and Need Advice


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#1 ErnstVoss

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 21:12

I have been away from sims for quite some time, but have recently gotten the itch once again.  I am an old RB3D guy and remember the feelings back then of being a part of something like that and so I was thinking about ROF and Flying Circus.  I have the original boxed version of ROF, but never had the right computer to run it properly.  So, I am thinking about getting a suitable system together now.  I want to be able to enjoy full graphics smoothly, but don't want to build a system that is way overkill, for my budget reasons.  I am looking here to you for real world experience in what is actually needed to do this right.

 

First off, will the original boxed version work on Win10, or should I go with the download?  Should I use an older OS?

 

What kind of processor is best, i7, i9, etc.  I read in another thread that the quad core is best?

 

I have used GeForce cards years ago, but I am no longer familiar with their lineup and what the designations and numbers mean.  For example would the GTX 1660 Ti be overkill?  If so, which one would work without compromise with these sims?

 

I know that there are lots of other parameters to consider as well and I would like suggestions for those as well.

 

Is it better to go with a new prepackaged deal such as what can be found through CyberpowerPC, or assemble a system from slightly older components if found plentiful and available for the cost savings?  I have a friend with a PC repair business that just may have a really nice case, motherboards, power supplies, CPUs and other sets of bones to build from.

 

Thank you


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#2 Gooseh

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 21:26

Well if you fancy a self build I can say it's very satisfying and generally cheaper + you can spec exactly the kit you want, no more no less.

 

I haven't built one in @10 years mind and it still runs ROF just fine at 1080p.  I wouldn't have thought it would run FC so well, but I don't have it so....

 

The technical stuff I'll leave to others here who know more of what's the bomb these days, sorry I can't help more but good luck!

 

S!

 

 

 

 


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#3 SeaW0lf

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 10:23

If possible, it is better to buy the hardware separately as mentioned above (if you know how to put a computer together or has a friend who can do that for you). It turns out to be cheaper this way and you can pick a better hardware. In those prepacked deals you will certainly get a not so good PSU (perhaps the most important item on your computer), a subpar custom GPU, memories, etc. The only thing that you know for sure in those prepacked deals is the CPU, the brand of the case and the cooler. Sometimes not even the cooler. I don’t think you can choose the brand of the PSU, the GPU and the memory. You can customize it, but then the price will soar through the roof.

 

I also don't recommend used hardware (unless you are getting a bargain), because with the new Ryzen series, Intel was forced to upgrade the i5 to the same level of performance of the old i7s (i7-7700K / i7-6700K) and still keeping the i5 price. For example, if you buy an used i7-7700K or an i7-6700K (stock price around $360), you will end up paying the same 200/250$ of an i5-9600K, which is new, has 6 physical cores and has the same performance of the old i7s. And new motherboards like the Z390 UD are cheap and have a beefier VRM than the previous mid tier Z270 / Z370, plus they can handle an i9 in the future.

 

But ROF and the whole Il-2 series don't require a super-processor and don't use hyper threading, hence why I mentioned the i5-9600K. I have the i5-9600K, and Flying Circus, ROF and the whole Il-2 series won’t break a sweat. On Il-2 with 12 planes, my CPU hovers around 8% usage (I’m overclocked) and with an average temperature of 35ºC with 25ºC room temperature. In ROF, the CPU hovers about 30% usage and get and average temperature of 42ºC.

 

But you can use the extra cores in new games and rendering. And these CPUs are coming soldered (no more TIM paste), then it is fairly easy to overclock them to 4.8Ghz+ with low temps and with a mid tier cooler like the Maelstrom 240 or any Corsair 240, or an air cooler NH-U14S, the latter requiring motherboards with the GPU on the second slot, like the Z390 UD.

 

Regarding GPUs, I think the GTX 1660 Ti is enough to run these games in 1080p. In general people use Nvidia cards for ROF, Il-2 and DCS. I have a GTX 1060 6GB and I can run Il-2 Battle Series in High fairly smooth (not 100% smooth), and I have a 2560X1080 monitor, which is bigger than the full HD ones. And the GTX 1660 Ti is a decent upgrade from my GTX 1060. If you have some money to spare and you will get a good 1440 gaming monitor, I recommend the RTX 2060 Super. The Super series came with the chip above, so the RTX 2060 Super has the entry level 2070 chip and the 2070 Super has the entry level 2080 chip, and they are cheaper than the respective 2060 and 2070.

 

Also check the Ryzen 3000 series. People in general aren't complaining about the lower clocks, but the Intel parts are in general better for these games. The only problem is that with Intel you pay $250 for a 6 core CPU, and with AMD you spend the same money for a 6 core / 12 threads CPU, which might come in handy when streaming or rendering videos and tracks.

 

But I'm not complaining about my i5-9600K. If I would change anything, I would have gotten an i7-9700K. I personally would only buy AMD if they keep improving in the next generation or two. I still think it is too early to say that they are better than the Intel for gaming, but you spend more with Intel and get less performance in total.

 

Regarding the PSUs that I mentioned, you cannot go wrong with a mid tier Seasonic 650W. Or you can get a Corsair one, which is OEM and have a good support / RMA (some Corsairs are OEM Seasonics). The Z390 UD has a 8+4 pin connector for the CPU (the extra 4 pins for the i9 or heavy overclock), but most PSUs come with a 8 pin for the CPU. Then you have to buy an extra connector (can be a little tricky if you are outside the US or Western Europe). Or you can pick a model with extra pin connectors.

 

Wait for other people to give their opinion, or ask about the Ryzen 3000 series on the Il-2 forum.


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#4 Panthercules

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 12:59

Some good advice as to hardware - you don't really need all that much for RoF given its age, but you'll appreciate all the oomph you can get with newer games like IL-2 GB/FC.

 

As for using the old boxed version disk of RoF, just one word - DON'T.

 

Just D/L and install the latest free-2-Play version from the RoF website, do an update and recovery from the game's launcher, and you'll be all set.  Things have changed with both the game and the installer routines so much since those old disks came out that you'll have nothing but trouble if you try to use them at this point.  The F2P version comes with several free planes you can fly while you're learning the ropes, and buying more planes/content from the RoF store is easy and cheap (especially if you wait for one of the sales they run several times a year).  Or you can buy extra content through Steam, if you really feel compelled to, though personally I'd prefer to avoid Steam and buy directly from the devs so they get all the money (and you can buy exactly what you want instead of being stuck with the way Steam packages things).  Just remember to make your decision and stick with it - you can't mix content bought from the RoF store with content bought through Steam on the same RoF account.


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#5 J2_Bidu

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 13:05

Concerning the ROF game iself, there is only one version that works: get the download. Also, upon starting the game, press the Update button on the splash screen. Then you're done.

Before deciding which hardware to get, consider what you want to do first. What resolution do you want to play at? HD or 4K? How big is your monitor, how big would you like it to be? Will you want to play with a 3d headset? Think it out.
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#6 ErnstVoss

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 15:02

Thank you everyone.  This is all very good detailed information and exactly what I was needing to see.  I now have a good baseline and place to start my research on components.  I absolutely need to think this out as I am sure there is a lot I have not yet considered.  Without a doubt I have a lot to think about and decide upon.  The really big overwhelming question I need to ask myself is how bad do I really want this, because it will be a decent sized investment in a new hobby for a person that to be honest, has far too many interests and hobbies already.  I don't have enough hours in the day to fit things in as it is.  I would be starting from absolute scratch, not even having a computer desk set up anywhere.  What sparked my interest once again was running across some videos on YouTube for ROF and FC, very impressive.  As primitive as RBII and 3D looks and runs today in comparison, I will always remember how immersive and real it felt back then and how much I enjoyed it.  I didn't think it was possible to capture those same feelings all these years later, but through YouTube, they came back.  It can be very hard to recapture and relive a fleeting memory, but it seems not impossible.


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#7 J2_Bidu

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 15:56

Wish you all the best. Don't rush your decisions. This sim (ROF) is phasing out and Flying Circus is still phasing in, take your time.


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#8 Gooseh

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 18:51

It's always cheaper six months later! But then there's something new coming out! Catch 22.
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#9 J2_Bidu

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 19:28

It's always cheaper six months later! But then there's something new coming out! Catch 22.

 

Right, but not much point in buying stuff specifically for a game that isn't quite there yet.


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#10 HotleadColdfeet

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 20:48

Salute and welcome Herr Voss! :icon_e_salute:

 

I'd definitely go with the downloadable version through here or Steam. (Personal reccomendation? Go with the one on the website here.) Also, once you get up and ready to fly, check out the beginner's guide in my signature. It explains each menu in the game, which planes you get for free, and has an appendix of training materials at the end. 

 

See you in the skies!  :icon_e_smile:


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#11 tvrtko

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 19:15

I have an GTX 780 and consider it as an overkill. :icon_lol:

Almost all on max, yes. :icon_e_salute:


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