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FiF 2018 Winter Campaign


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#1 JG1_Butzzell

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 18:24

S! All

 

The Christmas truce is over. The politicians and generals were pleased to be home for the holidays but it could not last. We have a war to fight!

 

The winter campaign will be an ordeal. Welcome to Tarnopol!  Yes it is the Russian map with early planes. We have done this one a few years ago. We have added new missions since then so the map is a little larger.

 

 

Objectives, maps and plane set are available on JG1 forums.

 

 

There is a practice mission running on the JG1 server. If you get on and there is not enough time to do the mission you want, you can restart the mission by killing the balloon at the bomber base.  It is highly recommended that people doing General Capture, Spy pick up and Prisoner Rescue    practice these missions. 

 

 

We will have a dry run on 13, January 2018 at the usual time.

 

Real hostilities start 20, January 2018 at the usual time.

 

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#2 J2_drookasi

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 20:02

Jasta Boelcke shall do our best for a numerous participation.


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#3 J2_Bidu

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:45

Sounds good!
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#4 Joker_BR

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 22:55

S! Gentleman. I'll be there for the first part, but in February I'll be able to participate only on the first mission, being away on the rest of the month (traveling far away from home). Hope to see you all this Saturday on the test mission.


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#5 J5_Gamecock

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:08

Blue team pilots!  Please see the message posted in "Blue Team Discussions" on the JG1 forums for an important announcement.

 

  http://forum.jg1.org...am-discussions/


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#6 =VS=_emely

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:47

This year, the rules FiF have changed :

"Any re-departure - regardless of whether you are on the field of take-off alive or fell into the forest in a friendly territory - is allowed only after a 5-minute penalty"

That for that, who successfully landed on his aerodrome pilot, bears the same punishment as fallen into the forest?
Why, in this case, risk, leading a damaged aircraft to the airfield, if you can sit on the near field and even save time before re-takeoff?
When flying by a group, ALL group receives a penalty + 5 minutes before the last pilot's landing. Someone wants the amount of time in the air and on earth to be equal. ?
Why do we need such stupidity?
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#7 J5_Gamecock

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:30

 I'm not quite sure I understand you Emely.  Are you asking why it's the same 5 minute time out for landing at field as it is for ditching plane? 

 

 That is not a new rule. It has always been that way.


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#8 J2_Bidu

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 07:38

Still, he has a point. I think it should be different. But if someone came up with this rule, he probably thought about it more thoroughly than me, right? So I'm not too confident on my own opinion here.

 

The group rule I didn't even know. And I still can't find it anywhere.


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#9 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:14

The group "rule" is consequence of group having to wait for last pilot to be ready.

@Emily - if you land in the forest, you lose the plane. The point of bringing your airframe to the field is so you can use it again. 


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#10 =VS=_emely

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:10

That is not a new rule. It has always been that way.

After two or three years of participation in this event, this is news to me ;-) I could not assume the existence of such an injustice - equality successfully landed on its airfield, and fell into the forest.

Emily - if you land in the forest, you lose the plane. The point of bringing your airframe to the field is so you can use it again.

Penalty player receives in any case, and to save time, can sacrifice the aircraft, if they are available on the base. Moreover, the flight time, goes from the moment of occurrence on an airfield. And while the pilot is serving a sentence for a successful landing, his plane can be taken by any other player, for example, who fell in the field and broke a plane, but has already served a penalty.
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#11 =VS=_emely

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:17

The group rule I didn't even know. And I still can't find it anywhere.

In practice, I usually wait for a second landing flight of one or two players from our team, which is 5-7 minutes without a penalty. And according to this rule, we need to add another 5 minutes of precious time. that will be already 10-13 minutes of waiting.
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#12 J2_Bidu

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:08

In practice, I usually wait for a second landing flight of one or two players from our team, which is 5-7 minutes without a penalty. And according to this rule, we need to add another 5 minutes of precious time. that will be already 10-13 minutes of waiting.


Well, but in that case it is your choice. You can just get going and set a rally point. I know it's not the same, but it's not enforced in the rules.
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#13 JG1_Klaiber

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 17:05

Hi Guys,
 
There seems to be a bit of confusion over the refly rules within FIF, so I thought I'd post in the hopes of clarifying them.
 
The refly penalty has always been 5 minutes for all aircraft landing in friendly territory, regardless of where that landing took place.
 
http://forum.jg1.org...flames-ruleset/
 
 

If a pilot has landed at a friendly aerodrome, that player may refly at the discretion of the team commander (CO) after a 5 minute timeout. This timeout starts when a player hits “Finish Flight” and goes to the map room.

. . .

If a pilot crashes in friendly territory and survives the event, that pilot may switch to a new aircraft and take off again from his original aerodrome provided that another aircraft is available at the discretion of the CO and after a 5 minute timeout.

If a pilot crashes in No Man's Land and survives the event, he must check his position on the in-game map. If he is not within enemy territory, that pilot may switch to a new aircraft and take off again from his original aerodrome provided that another aircraft is available at the discretion of the CO and after a 5 minute timeout.

 

Если пилот приземлился на дружеском аэродроме, то, спустя 5 минут, он может повторно взлететь по усмотрению командующего команды (CO). 5-минутное пенальти начинается с момента, когда игрок кликнул в меню «Завершить вылет» и перешел на экран карты.

. . .

Если пилот разбился на дружеской территории или на линии фронта, но при этом выжил, он должен проверить его положение на карте в игре. Если он не находится в пределах территории противника, то, спустя 5 минут, он может выбрать другой доступный самолет с домашнего аэродрома и вылететь повторно по усмотрению командующего команды.

 
The 5 minute refly penalty is important because we want to limit "air quake" style engagements, where people are reflying continuously to help nearby friends.  This is especially true if the fight is close to an aerodrome.  We want people to consider their options tactically.  And making them wait a few minutes mimics being "refueled and rearmed" if they're at an aerodrome. Similarly, if you land in a field in friendly territory, you can consider the 5 minute wait "walking back" to base.

 
There is no requirement that says people need to wait any longer than 5 minutes,however.  If you wait longer to coordinate with your teammates, that's your tactical choice.
 
It should also be mentioned that the 5 minute refly penalty is completely based on the honor system, as the in-game refly penalty system is poor for our tournament needs.  The in-game system handles the automatic refly penalty by starting a count down after you take off.  After 5 minutes of flying, your automatic penalty goes away, and if you land you can can refly immediately.  Which doesn't give us what we need at all. :/
 
As a result, after an official session has been flown, I review the FIF stats and manually determine if anyone broke the 5 minute refly rules.  If I catch them, I ask them to stop.  As a result, it's best for my sanity, and the sanity of the other admins and the respective team commanders, if we just have one time limit for every type of "safe" landing.
 
Perhaps, when Flying Circus is released, this won't be an issue anymore.  And we can better customize refly waits to the specific situation.
 
Hopefully that wasn't too confusing.  If anyone had questions, I'll do my best to answer.


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#14 =VS=_emely

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 23:30

In the Russian translation, the "friendly airfield" sounds like this: it is not the airfield from which you took off, it is any other airfield of your side. And with an accidental landing at the airfield of his side, but not an airfield takeoff - I stood for 5 minutes necessarily. I have not complied with this rule on take-off from my aerodrome for more than two years, and no one told me about it. Maybe, nobody observes it at all ?? This was due to inaccurate translation, or for some other reason. However, today, we found out that this rule was always given. I do not want to be dishonest, therefore I declare: I will not continue to keep a penalty, after successfully landing at my airfield. I consider this condition to be so stupid that it is a sufficient reason to stop participating in the event.
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#15 JG1_Klaiber

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 15:09

Hi Emely,

 

I definitely hear your frustration.  But I'm still trying to understand the specific nature of your concern.  The refly wait time is a universal rule that affects all pilots flying FIF.

 

BaronVonMyakin had been kind enough to provide us with the Russian version of the rules.  If there are any errors in translation, I know that Baron did the best that he could.  I'm sure that there are subtle things that were lost in translation.  But having the translated rules is better than not having anything for non-English speakers.  We want FIF be a welcoming environment to the international community.  Any specific discrepancies are lost on me, though, as I'm barely bilingual.  Using Google Translate, however, I do know that they "approximately" say the same thing.

 

Regarding no one catching you over the last two years, I do check the stats every week.  But there are a lot of stats to check, with a lot of pilots.  So if I haven't observed you / caught you doing it, then I think you should count that as a win for yourself.  I'm not irked at all.

 

I would hope that moving forward, though, you would respect the tournaments rules, and take your 5 minutes after you land in friendly territory.  I really don't see why this rule is stupid, or serious enough for you to stop participating.  Many tournaments have similar rules - like Black September or Bloody April, etc.

 

Either way, I'm happy to talk about this.


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#16 =VS=_emely

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 18:04

Hi Klaiber !
I beg your pardon, I got excited about the rules. Either I fulfill them, or I do not take part in the flights . The item under discussion, perhaps someone else does not know, and violates, which is quite possible.
I was surprised that the status of the pilot who sat 20 kilometers before the airfield, and who landed directly on the airfield - the same.
In addition, there are questions about the time penalty and others. Time of flight the statistics site counts from the respawn moment. Is it possible to hold the waiting by taking the plane and going to the airfield? Otherwise, the pilot who returned the aircraft to the base, can remain without an airplane while waiting, because someone else will take his car, who has lost his and left a penalty. And this will cause vexation, I think so ;-)
The pilot in standby mode at the aerodrome, can be attacked by an enemy and killed. The plane will be lost before takeoff, but the death of the pilot - will be counted by the rule of the killed-so-killed?
Thank you for the dialogue, and again I apologize, for too harsh the tone of the message above.
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#17 JG1_Butzzell

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 23:26

S! =VS=_emely

 

Your tone is not harsh. It is the tone of someone trying to understand.

 

Game ends in 10 minutes. You are in bomber. You are at target. There are two enemy there. You have a good gunner. They give you a little damage. You give them a lot of damage. They land but are not dead. You turn to attack target. You kill the AAA truck. You are ready for another pass. Two enemy attack you. The enemy airfield is very close. The first  two enemy have respawned with 5% fuel. They attack you. You take heavy damage. Your gunner damages them and they land. You turn to attack target knowing they will return. Your engine dies and you have to land.  Mission failed.

 

You would have bombed the target but they  were able to respawn with no wait.

 

You are defending an Artillery spotter over enemy lines. You have 5 fighters they have 5 fighters.  You shoot down 3. They are on their side and their base is close. They shoot down 2 and your base is far from the fight. The enemy come back. They only take 10% fuel because they know the fight is close.   They return before you can shoot down the last 2. Now it is 5 enemy against 3 of you. They shoot down all your fighters and your artillery spotter plane. Mission failed.

 

These examples may appear extreme but it can happen.   

 

The 5 minute rule prevents that type of play. It slows down the game just a little. In real life, there would not be a plane sitting there ready for you to use.  

 

 

Why is it the same for the pilot landing in field and pilot landing at base?  One rule. Easy for everyone to remember.

 

When you land- finish flight. Look at clock. Wait 5 minutes. While you wait, talk to commander and ask what he wants you to do.

 

We have tried many ways to make the wait automatic. The game does not do this. Jasta 5 has tried many options. None have  worked.  I think they have a 20 minute death penalty.

 

I hope this explains why we have the rule.


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#18 =VS=_emely

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 09:02

S! JG1_Butzzell
Thank you for clarifying the matter. But not for the sake of argument, I still want to note that the finished aircraft could be in real life, and both your cases could be in practice. However, I do not want to insist on any changes in this issue. The only supplement that I can offer will not be popular. This proposal to increase the penalty for those who landed not at the airfield :-) This is so that the status of the pilot with a successful landing would be different than that of the pilot with an accidental fall.
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#19 JG1_Butzzell

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 15:34

Quick update.

 

3, February, 2018   teams will change sides. 

 

Blue Team will be flying Entente

 

Red Team will be flying Central.

 

Attention Red Team !!   The Roland can only use one gun in the rear. Check your weapons before getting into game.

 

Blue Team- The FE2b can have two guns in the front.  smile.png

 

S! All and good luck wink.png


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#20 J5_Gamecock

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 17:41

Blue team pilots! Please see message posted here


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#21 JG1_Butzzell

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 01:41

S! ALL

 

Congratz Red team on a climb out of a deep hole to win phase A. Blue team started out strong delivering what looked like a knock out blow in the first round. As the campaign wore on. Red team had a total overhaul in strategy that let them struggle back. There were some great fights and some surprises.

 

 

On to phase B with newer and faster planes.

 

17, February, 2018   teams will change sides. 

 

Blue Team will be flying Central

 

Red Team will be flying Entente.

 

Attention both teams!  No weapons mods for phase B.

 

 

 

S! All and good luck wink.png


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#22 =VS=_emely

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 22:39

At the last action, J30 Mein asked me: "emely didnt i get you earlier?". Unfortunately, I do not speak English fluently, and I could not reply in time. So it was, we exchanged hits, but I managed to make an emergency landing on the side of my team. Mein, in your case, I'm sorry that the arrows in FiF have so many lives :-) When you work as a shooter, knocking down the plane is very difficult, especially if the pilot is on it J30 von Hammer, but it's a guarantee not to meet you again, and get a bullet in the engine from a distance of one thousand meters! ;-))
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#23 J30-Reinamann

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 21:57

S! Emely

 

J30_von Hammer is a good pilot but he was not piloting that RE8 during this session.

I was. Reinamann

You three chased Mein and myself for a long time. Bullets were flying past us on all sides. And you eventually gave me a fuel leak.

The RE8 has a good gun platform to shoot from when flying level. This enabled Mein to get some good and lucky shots on all three of your group. And I see from the logs that all pilots involved had to ditch their aircraft. I was captured. But still a fun flight.

 

J30<>Reinamann


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#24 =VS=_emely

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:37

Hi Reinamann!
Your RE8 I met in the second sortie. In the first sortie, the fight was with J30HANGMAN [Sopwith Strutter] But both times the shooter was J30Mein, which gave us a lot of trouble ;-) J30_von Hammer was mentioned as an example, in this session we did not meet. H.D2 can not catch up with RE8 and you're almost out of the chase. I had to shoot from a very long distance, I spent the whole stock of cartridges on it :-) 500 shots and just 2 successful hits! But it was enough to slow you down a little. Mein got on my plane once, but very successfully for you - my fuel leaked and I had to land emergency.
S!
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#25 =VS=_emely

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 12:48

At the last event, very many blue team pilots were absent. I would like to know if they will come next time?
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#26 GenMarkof007

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 17:41

S! =VS= emely,

 

That was bit strange about last week blue team number of pilots?
Since no one gave any information that Flanders was off?!?

 

Hope to see you all this weekend.

 

Cheers,

Gen ;)


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#27 =VS=_emely

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 23:57

There are strange rumors why such information was. Maybe it was distributed by agents of the Red team? ;-)
ps We are going to fly.
S!
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#28 =VS=_emely

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 23:32

D2 is a good aircraft, but again we were unlucky :-)) Do not be sad, we'll look for luck on N11-17 ;-)

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#29 JG1_Butzzell

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 17:10

S! Emely

 

Great fight!

 

 

S! All.

 

This week we switch sides.  Blue team will be Entente and Red team will be Central.

 

Good luck to All.


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#30 =VS=_emely

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 14:59

I thank the organizers of the event, the commanders of the groups, all the participants! The winter part of the FIF has come to an end. I would like to sum up the battle, and to hear the opinion of the other pilots. There is a sense in doing this on the pages of this forum. And this is because this forum is read not only by experienced players who already know everything, but also newcomers. Perhaps they will be interested in this event, and they will want to join it. ps Do not tell me what happened to the FF statistics server?
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#31 =VS=_emely

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 15:07

Do not be sad, we'll look for luck on N11-17 ;-)

Luck can not be called, it repels it ;-) On the first flight to H17, I got the task to take a wreath to the knocked down opponent's ace ... At the moment of dumping, I was hit by an anti-aircraft gun with one shot. Killed-so-killed, the wreath came in handy for me ;-)))
https://youtu.be/deJNUsBeulk
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#32 J5_Gamecock

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 21:24

 On behalf of the Blue team I want to congratulate the Reds on their victory in the 2018 Winter campaign.  It was well fought and good times were had all around I think... looking forward to our next meeting come spring.

 

   :icon_e_salute:


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#33 JG1_Klaiber

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:02

The Flanders In Flames “Winter Campaign” has now come to an end!

We had some outstanding air battles and engagements. And we're extremely excited to see so many people having a good time while competing in this event!

Normally, at this point, I’d be talking about celebrating the conclusion, and perhaps hinting at the FIF 2018 Spring Campaign. However, I want to use this moment to talk about something more serious.

A pilot on the Red Team contacted Butzzell and I, admitting that he was in possession of and had tested a hack on the FIF server during an official FIF Winter Campaign session. This pilot said that his intent was not to cheat, but to test the hack on a closed tournament environment. The pilot then agreed to whatever punishment we felt he deserved.

Using a hack in FIF is considered cheating, regardless of intent. So, in accordance with our rules regarding fair play, this pilot was dealt with. After his initial punishment, he was told that a second offense would result in a more severe punishment, which could include a permaban.

It’s important to note that this incident happened before the March 4th joint server-host agreement, posted on the ROF forums by J5_Baeumer. And thus, this happened before any real sharing of information between server hosts had happened.

Moving forward, I would like to state that FIF (and JG1) unequivocally and completely supports the March 4th agreement. We are committed to it and will do everything in our power to ensure that cheating in ROF is never tolerated. Had the offending pilot used the hack post-March 4th, at minimum he would face an 8 to 16 week ban from active tournament play, as well as a one month ban on all other participating servers.

Looking at the scores from the last 8 weeks of tournament play, the Red Team would have won the Winter Campaign based on points. However, I cannot in good conscience award the win to the Red Team.

There are two reasons for this. Firstly, using hacks or cheats is not tolerated, and I will not reward it, even if that means an entire team loses out because of the actions of an individual. And please note, that a hack of the game is not the same thing as a weapons mod violation or a second pilot life after a capture or death. Those are usually unintentional violations, whereas using a hack is decidedly intention and totally unacceptable. Secondly, JG1 (the host squadron of FIF) is on the Red Team, and I will not have my squadron profit off the back of a hack or cheat.

Please help me congratulate the Blue Team on their victory!

I wish this was a more joyous celebration, but bittersweet seems to be the overall tone right now within the ROF community. The Blue Team’s teamwork and coordination were great, and I can’t wait to compete against them in the next campaign.

The FIF campaign ribbon is available on the FIF forums, as are the scores:

http://forum.jg1.org...-10-march-2018/

As always, thank you to every pilot who flew in this event. Without your continued support, this tournament would not be able to function.


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#34 J2_SteveF

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:11

S! Klaiber,
I can see that this was not an easy decision to make. But IMO the only one open given the circumstances.
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#35 J2_PikeStance

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:25

I would like to thank the guys from Jasta 5 for the warm welcome and a great time of flying. 


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#36 Spyboy

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:56

S Klaiber
You and Butzell have shown wisdom and leadership in coming to this decision.This has been a difficult time in RoF but we can embark on the new campaign with the clear resolve that no hacks will be used.
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#37 =VS=_emely

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 13:19

The result in this case does not matter, we all got a great pleasure from participating in the tournament, and we are also going to participate in the following. Thank you guys for organizing all this, we are very grateful to you.
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#38 Ice_Age

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 13:36

 

Moving forward, I would like to state that FIF (and JG1) unequivocally and completely supports the March 4th agreement. We are committed to it and will do everything in our power to ensure that cheating in ROF is never tolerated. Had the offending pilot used the hack post-March 4th, at minimum he would face an 8 to 16 week ban from active tournament play, as well as a one month ban on all other participating servers.

Looking at the scores from the last 8 weeks of tournament play, the Red Team would have won the Winter Campaign based on points. However, I cannot in good conscience award the win to the Red Team.

There are two reasons for this. Firstly, using hacks or cheats is not tolerated, and I will not reward it, even if that means an entire team loses out because of the actions of an individual. And please note, that a hack of the game is not the same thing as a weapons mod violation or a second pilot life after a capture or death. Those are usually unintentional violations, whereas using a hack is decidedly intention and totally unacceptable. Secondly, JG1 (the host squadron of FIF) is on the Red Team, and I will not have my squadron profit off the back of a hack or cheat.
 

 

So what was the punishment to the cheaters?

 

It's my point of view, Klaiber and Butzzell, that by allowing them back for the upcoming Spring FiF sessions, and essentially giving them a pass for all activities prior to the March 4th announcement (as if they didn't know cheating in FiF or WG was wrong before the announcement), that you, in a very real way, are rewarding it.   Heck, those guys weren't even banned for the March 10th mission.  Abrogating the scores for the last session, as you've done, is the right thing to do, and can be praised as a standalone decision, but it's the very least you could have done.  Since FiF Winter Campaign has now concluded, it seems that cheaters aren't getting any more of a 'time out' than anyone else.  Saying things like "cheaters will not be tolerated" is fine and well, but If you and other server operators are actually serious about it, your rules and policies have to have some teeth in them, and of course, you actually have to be willing to enforce them.   On the flipside, lol, you've managed to deter at least one veteran player from ever attending a FiF Tournament ever again!


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#39 J5_Gamecock

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 22:15

  Winning is great, we all like to do it but win or lose,I fly in FIF just because I enjoy it. I doubt that I'm the only one that feels that way. 

 

   I don't envy the position you're in, but respect the decision you have made. I appreciate all the work that goes into your campaigns and look forward to meeting up again in the spring.

 

  S!

 

 

   ps.  Nice to see you've not lost your sense of humor. Noticed that the current campaign ribbon is BLACK!!    :)


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Gamecock,The Kickin Chickin 

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#40 BaronVonMyakin

BaronVonMyakin
  • Posts: 360

Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:52

There is nothing to add to Gamecock's words. Fully agreed with the written above! 

Looking forward to the next campaign!


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