I editted my above post because I do agree Refected on the roundel colour. Still looks good but they could use another look at
Camels over Italy
Posted 17 January 2018 - 19:58
This thread reminded me of a lot of "pain" I went through trying to get the colors just right for some that I did. For example, I had what I believed were the RBG values of the J5 green tail, but when I put them on the plane, they just didn't look right. I sampled pictures of modern reproductions, I sampled paintings, etc, etc, I mixed and matched to try to come up with the best compromise between all sources I could find, and in the end it always came down to judging it by the eye. And then as soon as you release a paint, you inevitably run across a picture that you didn't see before that makes you hate the colors you ended up with!
Exactly. Just today I stumbled over some pictures, which cast yet another light on some of my Camels. The real pain for me comes at the moment I decide to let a design go as it is. No more ‘but I could do this‘ or ‘let me try that'. Horrible! Decisions, decisions…
Posted 21 January 2018 - 20:37
The very light blue of the roundel v1 may show the state of a faded VB1, which eventually discards it as a standard version. Also the blue colour of v2, which is based on a paint, that is mixed according to a historical colour chip, did not go down undebated; while darker than v1, the blue in the roundel was considered as still too light. So I was flicking through my printed sources all over again and again to find something, which was more than a bould postulate.
Eventually I decided to use the colour codes given in 'Windsock Datafiles 6, Sopwith 2F1 Camel', p. 21, and from there – to also contain the expectations of those, who prefer a very dark ultramarine shade of blue – the darkest of the 5 proposed colours. In order to add some variation to the roundels, I have just slightly, slightly pulled controls to have one roundel look newly applied, while an other one might have seen some sun and rain and snow and castor oil.
Thus said, I hope v3 will eventually meet the expectations of a broader majority and that the gentlemen of 28 Sqn, 45 Sqn and 66 Sqn will have a lot of fun hunting down 'the Hun and the Austrian', as it was referred to in a letter by Lt. E. Trevor Evans (34 Sqn RFC). The Links to the skins can be found in my main introduction.
Previews 28 Sqn
Previews 45 Sqn
Previews 66 Sqn
Posted 21 January 2018 - 22:29
I very much like your PC10, but entirely disagree with your roundels.
Forget about colour chips and orthocromatic photos. I give you 2 simpler reasons:
1) Given is a country with a blue white red flag. That same flag was used on planes in 1914 until they figured it looks too much like the german cross from afar. So they re-shaped it into a roundel. Now why on earth would they have changed the color of the blue from the one in the flag?
2) You're implicitly saying that the guys at Hendon, the Vintage Aviator collection, or Shuttleworth are wrong, because they consistently use the same blue which is much darker than yours.
Then again, these are your skins, you are free to paint them as you see fit.
I fully accept your criticism of the roundels, but not for what you give as ‘reasons'. I accept it, because no one, absolutely no.one, knows the exact colour of the roundel. Simply, because it is impossible to know it. All of us, from nerd to modeller to replica-factory, can only evaluate the synopsis of the sources we have and keep our fingers crossed. And evaluation is always tinted and directed by the expectations of the evaluating mind.
ad 1) Yes, I agree. This sounds absolutely comprehensible. But how does the VB2, which was described as almost vermilion red, fit into this, then? Was the Union Jack revisioned, too? I think, that the colours of the British National Flag are the colours that were intended to be obtained for the national markings on the planes. But it took a while to be able to produce a paint, that was durable and colour-stable enough to end up at with the roundels, that you prefer to see. The same goes for the blue. VB1 seemed to have been inadequate, to keep it’s initial hue, so you would have seen a variety of deviations from ultramarine blue. And for VB2 we only know, that a range of ultramarine pigments had been suggested. But did it match the blue of the flag? What shade of ultramarine blue did the gentlemen at the RFC had in mind, when they issued their order? Ultramarine blue itself comes in different shades. And again, was it obtained?
ad 2) I share my skins for the fun of it and because I am attached to the idea, that this honours these brave men of which much too many had not been granted the gift of a long life. Although it might be only virtual, but it is a comforting idea to see them (or their personal markings) up in the skies again. I do not want to better or correct anyone. But I also don’t follow postulates, if they are not conveyed to me in any way. I am at the moment waiting for someone at VA to reply to my e-mail, in which I had simply asked them to explain briefly, what had made them pick this specific blue for their roundels.
I have no problem with putting anyone to question. I have studied archaeology and later became a media-technician. I can list prominent examples of historical 'facts', that by means of one open-minded revision had to be completely wiped off. Facts, that - until then - had been held as the 11th and 12th commandment, with the threat of eternal condemnation for disobeying. And, as there is no absolute right, it is impossible to set someone wrong, right?
Your firm objections of my roundels made me question my decision twice, for which I am very grateful. Although I am not convinced to the extent of adopting the very ultramarine WWII roundel, I gladly darkened the ones I use.
p.s.: I know, that you will reject v3 just the same.
Posted 22 January 2018 - 10:55
I assume everyone have seen this...
I have linked to this Wiki entry in my initial post, in order to account for my choice of roundels; v1 uses the very bright roundel as given in the article. But the determined opposition here and reconsiderations on my side made me think, that the Wiki article may be wrong, in that, that the blue of the roundel does not fully consider or underestimate the orthochromatic effect and therefor is too light.
Posted 04 February 2018 - 15:40
A special Salute! goes to HotleadColdfeat, who pointed me onto the very one method to post a video here, that I had not tried. You made my day!
Posted 04 February 2018 - 16:05
Cottle, Firth and Drummond on a stroll through the picturesque village of Fossalunga. Fortunately someone had a camera at hand and made click (not all concerned by the colours of their roundels *g*). This picture was most likely taken sometimes winter 1917/18 (mind the warm clothes of the three!), when 45 Sqn had moved in from France to their new airfield at Istrana. A video of their arrival in Italy and warm welcome by the glad Italians can be found at the IWM collections (rtmpt://streaming-cluster.iwmcollections.com/vod13/_definst_/flv:Online_Flash/001F29C5BD3C/2011/0720/0043/000/000000/000000.flv).
Cottle, Firth, Drummond Fossalunga.jpg 67.72KB 0 downloads
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