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Logitech C-270 vs Sony PS3 eye camera. ( Head tracking on the cheap)


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#1 Plank

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 04:00

Dear chaps.

 

Just bought a Logitech C-270 web cam to Skype my RGF in St Pete.  : -  )

 

and while I am waiting for her to wake up I decided, for the heck of it, to try it out for head tracking, as is with no mods etc...

 

Well.

 

Heck.

 

640x360 @ 30 fps....

 

well the wide lense made the IR LEDS very very small....

they were about sub 5 pixles....

 

So I had to do some fiddling to get them looking ok.

( no IR band pass filter... and IR blocking filter is still in...)

 

Got in my trusty N17 GBR and flew around. ...

 

Hmm..

 

Then swapped to PS3 cam.....

 

more Hmm...

 

After a few more Hmm's...

 

 

Dang it! ( trying to sound like fourspeed there...)

 

 

I really could not determine that the Ps3 cam is any better.

 

All that faffing about for .... hmm....

 

The PS3 was cheap. It does do 75 fps at 640x480 .... but maybe there is more to this story...

 

Better drivers?

 

Maybe the wider lense makes the C-270 better? I have no idea...

 

So....

 

It's a close call, but I think the C-270 is better.

I think the thing I noticed most was less tearing when looking around.

The background does get fuzzy but I am not sure that is really all that bad. ( generation one i7...)

 

What does this mean? Head scratching...

 

Well...

 

You can do a fine job of head tracking with the Logitech C-270,

use freetrack and a DIY three IR LED baseball cap based set up. ( what I have...)

and you are good to go.

Is it better than TIR ? No idea.

But, it certainly looks ok to me.

 

Frankly, I was a bit annoyed to see it worked so well,

even at a crummy 30 FPS,

after all the @#$%#@$$  I slogged through to get the PS3 camera to work...  darn...

 

So there you go.

 

Second hand/used C-270 would be dirt cheap. 

Removing the IR blocking filter... well maybe just leave it in. ( get better curtains...)

 

Sum up:

 

Logitech C-270 works quite well as headtracking camera.

 

Salute!

 

Planky. ( Happy new year! when it happens for you in your time zone of choice...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#2 Plank

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 06:10

Dear chaps.

 

Fiddling around with Free Track I noticed that the frames had dropped to 15 FPS...withe Logitech camera... oh dear...

 

I had installed the actual Logitech drivers and software. Hmm...

 

Uninstalled software etc, still 15 fps.

 

Then fiddled with the controls and discovered the "low light compensation" check box. ( probably does some half frame rate and sums the difference trick)

 

Unchecked the box and Viola! Back to 30 ish frames.

 

Soooooo if you come across this problem.

Look at that check box.

 

I am pretty sure before I loaded the logitech drivers and wares that this was not an issue. Go figure.

 

ALSO

 

Slammed my IR band pass filter on it and bingo.

It's a happy camper.

 

Will get in the game and see if it cuts the mustard.

 

Salute!

 

Plank.

 

Attached File  c-270 low light issues.jpg   286.27KB   0 downloads

 

 


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#3 Plank

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 06:36

Actually no it's rubbish.

 

Back to the Sony Ps3 for me.

 

640x480 @75 FPS is pretty good.... : - )

 

Salute!

 

Plank.


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#4 J2_Bidu

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 00:48

That's what I have and it feels perfect.

 

I'm sure TrackIR could be better in some way or another, but for someone who hasn't experienced it, I live in ignorant bliss.


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#5 Plank

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 01:21

@ Bidu.  please clarify: you have the PS3 camera?  

 

What setting do you have the frame size and rate at? 

 

Do you use free track? 

 

( I think the logitech drivers made the c-270 camera worse .... for some reason. uff...) 

 

Head tracking is the work horse of the game, the joystick can be a show pony at times ( I use a controller now...) 

frankly if you have a great set up and you see everything clearly then heck.... just keep flying! : - )

Most of the really good fights have required very careful looking to see where the enemy is going next. 
Sometimes I peer over the glass, then slide left and look right and up etc. other times I need to track a 

plane that whizzes past just below. With no head tracking this would be impossible! 

 

and my new FT profile has a new addition:

 

I have turned UP the smoothing on all translations. say 50 in the profile and 100 in the global. 

the yaw and pitch are still 10 and 20. ( I think..I will check later) 

 

this has helped alot, now I can whip around looking over my shoulder and stay in the centre more. 

 

and yes I am with you in your ignorance of TIR... I would rather buy a 144hz screen IMHO....  : - ) 

 

Salute! 

 

Planky. ( Grave digger, sponge diver and pearl merchant.)  


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#6 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 13:13

A USB power spike took my TrackIR (and USB hub and external Apple keyboard) out last week. I was considering using Linuxtrack or Freetrack, and fashioning / buying an LED hat. But ultimately, I just sucked it up and re-ordered another TrackIR 5. I got 6 years out of the last one, so.. I don't consider it to be _too_ expensive. I only wish it would work on OS X (I run X-Plane 11 on Mac).

 

Anyway, it's cool that you were able to compare these two solutions head to head (see what I did there?).


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#7 J2_Bidu

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 17:27

@ Bidu.  please clarify: you have the PS3 camera?  

 

What setting do you have the frame size and rate at? 

 

Do you use free track?

 

Hell I don't know how to check the frame size and rate in use. The CL-Eye Test tool allows me to set a frame limit, but not to check what is in use currently. Does this make any sense? If not, let me know how I can check it.

 

I use FaceTrackNoIR and have it configured to use PointTracker 1.1 as  Tracker Source and FreeTrack 2.0 as Game protocol. Also fiddled with the curves. And to get a 90 degree pitch up working, which was getting on my nerves - could only go 75 or so - I found a solution (https://riseofflight...ree#entry662071).


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#8 Plank

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 05:16

Ah... I see a problem I have been suffering and not even sure it was an issue! ( reduced pitch up...) 

 

mmm...

 

I think in FTNIR... no I have no idea... it should ask you for the frame size in pix and frate rate.... or not... ???

 

Why not use Free track? It still works fine for me. It's a great program!!!! 

 

but forge the logitech C-270 I was dreaming... or the official drivers are rubbish.... something went wrong! 

 

 

Salute! 

 

Planky. 


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#9 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:52

Guy's try opentrack, way better and smoother, I'm getting 80 to 85 fps with ps2 camera.


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#10 dcyel

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 19:31

Sorry to burst in and hijacking this thread a bit. I am fairly new to the game and was wondering if I could use opentrack with my laptop camera.

 

I have a MSI GT75 VR7 Titan Pro laptop with a 1080 GTX video card. So no lack of frame rates or stutter here.

 

The problem is the French keyboard layout I have and its a real pain to configure or assign keys as almost nothing matches . This made me think to convert commands as much as possible to my Logitech 3D Pro stick.

 

It would be great if I could free up as many as possible joystick assignments using opentrack or something similar.

 

Just checked the webcam is a 30fps@1080p


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#11 Stumble

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 00:54

Welcome to the forums dcyel!

You need to have a camera that can see IR light and blocks visible light. Most cameras have IR filters so what we do with the PS3 eye camera is we take it apart, remove the IR filter and replace it with a filter that blocks visible light. For mine I just use the inside of a floppy disc, although film negative works as well.

Obviously you don't really want to take apart your laptop, but you can do some testing first to see if it would work without any modifications. Im not sure how much IR light those little webcans block so just test it out if I were you.

I think that what you want is like 60fps at 720p. That's why the PS3 eye is real good.

This website is very useful : https://riseofflight...-cheap-heres-h/

Anyway, if you need any help don't hesitate to ask. There are plenty people here willing to share their 50centa with you.


Salute!
Stumble.
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It hates you so much, that its willing to die just

to cause you a mild amount of pain.


#12 dcyel

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 13:11

Thank you for the welcome and the swift reply sir.

 

I was thinking of buying the headset add on with the three diodes I saw on checksix first

.

Indeed I have no intention to take my (very pricey) laptop apart so I better start to stick a piece of film negative on the camera lens and see how it works out because mounting a PS3 camera will not be possible.

 

The screen encasement is terribly flat and thin..

 

So no online flying for me in the time being.


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#13 HardCorps88

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 22:11

In setting up my logitech cam I have issues with it not discerning and making the IR's unfocused.  I have to lean in really close which then makes it impossible to fly.  


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#14 J2_Bidu

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:54

What software are you using for tracking?
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#15 HardCorps88

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 13:40

Im using OpenTrack


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#16 J2_Bidu

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 14:43

I use facetracknoir and am happy so far. But that is with a PS3.
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#17 HardCorps88

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 16:27

Im using PS3 camera and made mods aas well.  I wonder if the lense is messed up and can't focus as well?


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#18 HardCorps88

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 16:32

my mistakeI said logitech cam. OOPS!  I meant PS3


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#19 ResonantCard1

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 11:11

Hi Plank! 

 

Just one question, with any of those cameras you are talking about (the PS3 one and the 270), would it be necessary to remove the IR filter if I'm using IR LEDs? I'm planning to make an IR track cap for FreeTrack and while I'm not against breaking down stuff, I'd rather not waste money buying a camera (even if it's dirt cheap) to then remove its IR filter and find out that I broke something 


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#20 raker

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 19:46

... I'd rather not waste money buying a camera (even if it's dirt cheap) to then remove its IR filter and find out that I broke something ...

 

 

 

 

that's why I went to EdTracker and OpenTrack. No cameras needed. No removing of filters. No light or reflection issues...

 

just an add...

 

 

I'm not affiliated with EDTracker but I do so many ads they should send me a pro version for free!  :icon_e_smile:


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#21 J2_Bidu

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 20:36

You can also buy from DelanClip, for instance. They break it down for you, the PS3 I mean. I am clueless on electronics, so I did just that. Works perfectly. I do dim the window light, or it is bound to interfere. But only if the sun is really coming through it. Normal daylight is fine.

 

I have no affiliation with DelanClip, BTW.


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