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More Planky business.... you did what? oh dear....


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#1 Plank

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 19:52

More Planky business.... you did what? oh dear....

 

Bought another logitech 3d pro to replace the one I pulled apart to make the full size flight controls.

 

Used it a couple of times. Ugh. Terrible.

 

Waited a good enough time then BOOM it rapidly disassembled itself on the kitchen table.

 

Ripped off the old variable resistors and rewired onto a pair Spectrum RC sticks.

 

The sticks have slightly less throw than the logic tech stick so I actually had to use the "calibrate" thingy to get back the full throw.

 

In the design and dev stage ( When am I not...) and working out how to house the thing. and where to put buttons etc.

 

So it's a USB RC style controller with loads of buttons. Tons even. : - )

 

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and a picture of my cars brake slave cylinder what I revamped.

I was so happy to do this and it saved me a ton of money. : - )

(Yes, I did do both sides ! Never ever ever do only one side. )

 

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Salute!

 

Planky. ( Oh gosh it's time to dash off and face the world with a mug of brandy clenched firmly in my gripper. Cigarette in the other gripper...)


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#2 Plank

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 06:44

oooh....

 

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waiting for the glue gun to heat up...

 

S! P.


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#3 Arty_Effem

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 12:34

So neither full-size controls nor a desktop joystick suited you, but you think a converted RC Tx will be the Goldilocks solution? What if it isn't - what next?

Here's an idea to occupy you until the rain stops: A 3-axis swiveling chair fitted with transducers. Imagine you swivel left/right for yaw, back and forth for pitch, and lean left/right for roll. You could call it 'The Plankchurn'.

Don't forget to post the pictures.

 

 


 


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#4 Plank

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 23:29

Dear AE

 

Full size controls took up too much desk and floor space.

moving it out of the way to use desk was a pain.

 

Twist grip joysticks feel awful and the "slop" is terrible. ( One big spring design.)

Need desk space.

 

TX style is quick to setup, needs no desk space/floor space.

Is exactly the same at RC TX setup so flying RoF is same skill set as flying RC.

CHEAP! and the short throw sticks are very quick. Great for aerobatics.

no so good for shooting but I think practices will fix that.

 

The other thing about the RC TX gimbals is the very positive centering.

In a long throw proper gimbal stick you get a very long arc and hence nice

aiming. In the short throw TX stick you lose that but gain very quick self centering.

 

So I can take my thumb of the stick and it's centered in milliseconds.

 

All fly by wire sticks can be configured to do this*. particularly those that use load cells

to measure strain. I heard the f-16 side stick was too rigid and pilots did not like this.

 

At the end of the day I flew for a year or so with the full size flight controls, it was nice to learn

the ropes and develop my own gear. I would do things quite differently now if I was to make another full size one.

 

the RC TX is a very excellent compromise in several areas and I am pretty happy with it to date.

( I was flying for several months with a normal USB RC TX but had no buttons.)

 

The " Planktron churn - O - matic 3000 " is only available as a prepay bespoke item.

It does come with a comprehensive warning sign and requires a solid concrete base for it to be constructed on

and three phase 400volt electricity and It's pretty darn loud too so neighbors will need ear muffs and it's very very very expensive. also it will void your health/life/house/public liability insurance. unless you go with Loyds of London. and that won't be cheap.

 

Probably cheaper to purchase a real plane..... and maybe safer...

 

Salute!

 

Plank ( Sent from an Underwood no.5 typewriter.)

 

* This may or may not be totally true but as only two point five people on this planet listen to anything I happen to get out between slurps of brandy, munches on crumpets or drags on Woodbines it's probably not worth getting all hecked up about it too much. S!


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#5 Plank

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 22:47

This is the first working prototype. 

 

I like to develop things by actually using them and then homing in on additions, changes etc to consider whether I am on the right track and if it is a viable things. 

This obviously is not always doable and definitely involves time and focussed attention. 

 

One thing I do like is the inevitable undoing some work because it was a bad and replacing it with the better idea. This is a aspect that is lost on some designers.  

 

Essentially ergonomics is of the most importance and then proximity based on highest and most important use. 

 

For instance, in flight I decide what I need to use the most and create a list of importance. 

( Left stick Yaw/Throttle Right stick Roll/Pitch) 

No1 is fire button, right finger. 

No1 is snap to gunsight. left finger. 

No3 is recharge 

No4 is level auto pilot. ( for sidechatting ) 

 

etc etc. 

 

With the RCTX layout you have to take your thumb off the stick to thumb most buttons. 

So that is a down side, but there is ample room to put buttons near your eight fingers. 

 

Letting go of the stick is not so disastrous with the great centring. : - ) 

 

One thing I have to do is create a new board with the diodes to facilitate individual button leads. 

This is bit of an ask for my tiny brain but I have done it once before. So nose to the grind stone. 

If this is done properly I will have 12 freely positionable buttons. And it will look more technically messy. Yey.

 

The Logitech 3d pro is the cheapest development kit for flight control systems ( if you buy them second hand ) on the planet in my humble opinion. It's not the *best* but it is pretty good and quite unflappable. ( I have shorted out a few inputs and nothing bad happened...) 

 

more pics !

 

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As you can see it's not very tidy and/or super polished etc. Frankly I am not a big fan of the executive class sleek and totally spiffing finish. I prefer active development and total engagement with a project. It should look like what it is: a work in progress. Emphasis on work and progress. A brand spanking new and shiny thing although looking nice might have rather serious character flaws lurking. A thing covered with wires and hand soldered together may just the inspired design that takes a wild idea to the next level. Or at least there might be some knock on technological  advance. Never judge a book by it's cover. 

 

Ahem:

 

Hey Zaphod, come and have a look at some of these neat star trolleys! Look at this baby, Zaphod. The tangerine star buggy with black sunbusters… 
 
ZAPHOD:
Hey get this number! Multi-cluster quark drive, perspulex running-boards. This has got to be a Lazlar LyriKon Kustom job. Look! The infra-pink lizard emblem on the neutrino cowling. 
 
FORD:
Oh yes! And I was passed by one of these mothers once out near the Axel Nebula. I was going flat out and this thing just strolled past me, star drive hardly ticking over, just incredible! 
 
ZAPHOD:
Too much. 
 
FORD:
Ten seconds later it smashed straight into the third moon of Jaglan Beta. 
 
ZAPHOD:
Hey right? 
 
FORD:
Yeah! But a great looking ship though. Looks like a fish, moves like a fish, steers like a cow. 
 
 
- HGTTG Radio script. by our lord D.A. S! 
 
Salute! 
 
Planky. ( Shelling has finished for the morning, time to fill in the holes in the badminton court... again.) 

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#6 Stumble

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 04:50

Haha. that's awesome Plank! One thing though, couldn't you have just used an Xbox controller...

 

I still haven't gotten real into making my rudder bar (Pedals). Some jumper wires just came in the mail so it should be easier to hook up the arduino with the breadboard and all.

I had a quick test with the hall effect sensor by hooking it up with 3.6 volts (3 rechargable AA batteries) Like you suggested. I got a multi meter and watched the volts change when I added a magnet to the equation. It didn't seem real modular (Right word? More like linear maybe). It was a bit more like a switch rather a potentiometer. (I know, a pots different as its all resistance and all but just using as example).

 

Anyway, I'll try play around with it a bit. A question though, does the hall effect sensor require a strong magnet to work properly? And what about size? I guess it'll be easier if i can distinguish which is north and south.

 

 

 

 

Salute!

Stumble.

 

 

P.S. Please don't judge my small amount of knowledge. Bare with me, i'm keen to learn.


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#7 Plank

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:29

Hello Stumble!

 

which Sensor did you get? This one? :

 

Attached File  Hall effect madness.jpg   136.14KB   1 downloads

 

And it's all to do with the flux density plus polarity in relation to the flat side of the package with the branding on.

 

You may have gotten a Hall effect SWITCH instead of the ratiometric linear sensor.

Which is great if you want a contactless switch but no blinking good for an angular sensor... drat.

 

The sensor works thus:

 

With no magnetic flux on the sensor it should output 1/2 supply voltage.

when it gets a south pole flux field the V out goes up in proportion to flux density.

then vice versa. ( N pole V out goes down.

 

SO..

 

You have to find the mid point between N and S on yer magnet.

I use round flat one on it's edge with the sensor branded face along the edge on the Y axis of the magnet.

Rotate magnet around y axis. Think polar graphs...

 

see picture!!!!

 

By turning the magnet you are increasing the amount of flux lines going at 90deg to the sensor.

Turn one way V out goes down , the other way V out goes up.

 

Experiment! I did and look where it has got me! Fired! : - )

 

Some kind of rotating spindle with the magnet fixed and the an arm to stick the sensor on will help.

A jig if you like.

 

There is loads of info on the internet so there is not stopping of you!

 

~ Наука потрясающая! ~

 

and it's good fun when you learn somfing and then apply it to some other, um, gadget, thingy.

 

Keep bashing on an never surrender!

 

Salute 1

 

Plank. ( oh gosh I just joined the Red Cross.... blinking heck... )


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#8 Stumble

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 19:18

Yep, I've got this one here. https://www.jaycar.c...sensor/p/ZD1902

 

So thanks for the help, I'll have a fiddle on it tonight after another dreadful day at school. (Exams coming soon... not looking forward to them ) :)

 

 

Salute!

Stumble.


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#9 Plank

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 01:16

Yes that is the right one. 

 

When you meter the output of the device use an analogue meter not a digital one! 

 

Watching numbers go up and down is not as enlightening or fun as watching a needle move around. 

So see if you can dig one up. they are cheap second hand and are much more interesting than boring numerical read out...

 

Oh and you are undervolting it!

Read the documentation.

It needs a MINIMUM of 4.5 v to operate!

and you were feeding it 3.6 so you are too low! 

 

and a Maximum of 6 volts. 

 

I used the USB supply witch is 5 volts or something like that. 

 

Be careful with serial batteries.

Not all of them are the same Voltage etc. 

Don't mix different chemistry batteries blah blah blah 

TEST your battery voltage before you hook it up! 

1.2 volts VS 1.5volts x number in series can cause a nasty bang... 

 

AND 

 

one last word of caution. 

 

When testing VOLTAGE across two terminals make doubly sure you are 

not applying your meter in the CURRENT testing config. 

( Current testing uses an in series shunt to calculate current flow, a very low R in line with load. If you do test V in I mode you are now shorting out a potential difference, the bang! size is proportional to the V difference. 0 - 1.5v little to no bang. 0- 50v loud bang 0-240v BANG! 0-1000v very loud BANG! and injuries/death etc) Be careful! 

 

As I have done this before and blown things up, I need to stress this. : - ) 

 

Everyone melts the end off a probe at some stage in the electricity game. Try not too. 

 

And a short circuit CAN ( depends on the circuit) destroy loads of good stuff that can't handle 

current, heat and thermal runaway further  up stream of the short. This kind of thing is really really fascinating...but boring and can be very expensive...

 

BUT if you are going to make a mess make sure you don't envelope yourself in clouds of burning

plastic. It's toxic nasty stuff. always wear a gas mask and work outdoors. Or get a fume cupboard. 

 

And the short circuit current you can get out of a fully charged AA battery these days is eye watering stuff. 2.2 amp/hour now or something... gosh. Instantaneous short circuit current will be a LOT more than 2.2 Ah.

 

: - 0 

 

There, that is my safety VS fun lecture. 

 

Be careful! And if you think you need a break, do it before you make that silly expensive mistake. 

The amount of times I have gone, oh no.... oops. I was not focussed... darn. 

 

Electricity is a wild and dangerous force! But loads of fun. 

 

and Magnets! yes. Great things..... 

 

Salute! 

 

Plank. ( Time to stretch me legs I think and then toast a crumpet or two...)  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#10 Stumble

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:28

Big news Plank!

 

Well when I say news, I'm just calling in to tell you how far I am on my project to make a rudder bar.

 

 

So I did a heap of playing around with the sensor and all and I couldn't find out a way to hook it to the computer. Then I realized a potentiometer does practically the same thing as a sensor. In terms of it outputting different voltages.

 

(Did I explain that right???)

 

 

Anyway, so a while back I did a little project with my Sparkfun Pro Micro (Practically a mini Arduino) where I just copied this dude to make a handbrake with a potentiometer. I didn't end with a finished product but It gave me a lot of knowledge. It also introduced me to Arduino's and what they can do. (This video here: https://www.youtube....h?v=kv0FTpRLFMY) Skip to 7:50 for uploading code onto Arduino.

 

So I hooked up the sensor to the Arduino. Ground (Negative), VCC (Positive), and A0 (Analog 0 - Input/output).

I copied in the Joystick library and uploaded the code. Just like that I had a controller recognized by Windows.

 

And It was recognized by RoF.

 

 

So when I put one side of the magnet near the sensor, the rudder turns one way. And the other side visa versa.

I'll upload a video to show where I'm at :)

 

Now I have to actually made the rudder bar. This includes getting a magnet which is usable. I do have quite a few magnets but I'm not sure how I could get them to work with the twisting of the bar.

 

 

 

Now concerning your diagram, Where is the line of flux on that magnet? And which side of the sensor works best for sencing the magnet? The top or where the branding is?

 

Anyway, this is fun :)

 

 

If (When) I get this working I might make a little tutorial on a forum on how others can make a rudder bar too. To spare them the trouble I've got.

 

 

Luckily enough, I've got you to help me along.

 

 

 

 

Salute!

Stumble.


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#11 Zooropa_Fly

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:33

Hats off to you Stumble for your inventiveness and endeavour !

Look forward to seeing your creations..

 

:icon_e_salute:


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    Saying find enclosed one son one medal and a note, to, say, he, Won".


#12 Stumble

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:49

So here is my very professional drawings and videos to give you a picture of whats going on :)

P1170829.jpgSchematic.png

So I just hooked it up and uploaded the code as I said, calibrated it in the control panel and it worked in game.

 

To set the controller i just had to put a magnet towards the sensor for it to be recognized.

 

 

Here you can see it in action:

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

 

 

Some good old 1812 Overture (Best song from back in the day, I reckon)

 

 

Salute!

Stumble.


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#13 Plank

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 02:33

The minks are lissing!

 

S! P.


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#14 Stumble

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 03:43

Errr, I hadn't noticed.

 

Will be up soon.

 

 

Salute!

Stumble.


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#15 Stumble

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 11:27

Sorry guys, I've been slacking real bad recently!

 

S!


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#16 Plank

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 13:42

Though shalt not slack!

 

Back to work! 

 

S! P


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#17 Zooropa_Fly

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 14:25

Stumble - go find a quiet corner and have a word with yourself please :lol:.


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#18 Stumble

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 08:45

there we go :)

 

S!


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#19 Stumble

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 04:47

Hey Planky.

 

Just wondering what the size of the rudder bar should be. I'm guessing each plane had a different bar, so i'm looking for the average size(???).

 

 

And I think I remember hearing (Or rather reading;) ) that the rotation should be about 90 degrees. Is this right?

 

 

 

Salute!

Stumble.


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#20 Plank

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 11:29

Stumble.

 

Angle.

 

The angle of the rudder bar is dependant on your sensor and magnet set up.

Once you find out what angle you get for maximum and minimum output of the sensor....

I am not sure what mine is, not that I use it any more ( semi retired) but it is great once you get is going.

 

Width.

 

Sit in your chair. Feet on the ground comfortably apart.

That's probably where you want the grip tape on your rudder bar

AND/OR some kind of cut out to stop the fwd foot slipping off.

So design the bar too wide, then fly it to find your most comfy foot position then mark the excess for trimming.

I would give it a few hours in the air before you make a decision.  : -)

 

Also, nail it to the floor OR some kind of grippy stuff OR tie it to your chair so it can't wander off.

You do tend to push on it quite hard in long flights....

 

Try and make the cable to the sensor short. and if you can shielded.

( it may not make any difference as it's not extra extra extra low voltage...)

 

good luck!

 

What is your thrust bearing going to be???

 

Salute!

 

Plank.


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#21 kcole4001

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 21:38

I realize you fellows (chaps) are trying to do this 'a la cheapo' so to speak, but the simplest way to achieve analog to digital input is using one of the dooeys sold by this fellow (chap):

http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/

 

I have one, they work wonderfully for switches, pots, sensors, etc.

I converted my old game port rudder pedals to usb input as well as a bunch of switches and pots in very short order.

 

That said, keep on keeping on gents, glad to see some good old home brewed Plankin' happening again!    :icon_e_salute:


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#22 Stumble

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 00:12

Stumble.

 

Angle.

 

The angle of the rudder bar is dependant on your sensor and magnet set up.

Once you find out what angle you get for maximum and minimum output of the sensor....

I am not sure what mine is, not that I use it any more ( semi retired) but it is great once you get is going.

 

Width.

 

Sit in your chair. Feet on the ground comfortably apart.

That's probably where you want the grip tape on your rudder bar

AND/OR some kind of cut out to stop the fwd foot slipping off.

So design the bar too wide, then fly it to find your most comfy foot position then mark the excess for trimming.

I would give it a few hours in the air before you make a decision.  : -)

 

Also, nail it to the floor OR some kind of grippy stuff OR tie it to your chair so it can't wander off.

You do tend to push on it quite hard in long flights....

 

Try and make the cable to the sensor short. and if you can shielded.

( it may not make any difference as it's not extra extra extra low voltage...)

 

good luck!

 

What is your thrust bearing going to be???

 

Salute!

 

Plank.

 

Angle:

 

I can calibrate my sensor to a certain extent I'm fairly sure. I think Max is about 180 degrees and as little as i want. So does 90 degrees sound right?

 

 

I'm probably just gonna clamp it to my desk. On my desk there is a raised piece of wood running across the bottom for support. So I should be able to clap it onto that.

 

And im gonna have to run a USB from the arduino on the floor to my computer. Would there be a problem (Concerning voltage drops, etc) from having a USB extender? One like this: https://www.ebay.com...grlTga5cHm_Ouwg

 

 

 

What do you mean with "Thrust Bearing" ?

 

 

Salute!

Stumble


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#23 Plank

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 00:44

Stumble...

 

However you are doing this ( Arduino vs logitech...) i would aim for about 60deg.

That helps keep your feet on the bar. : - )

 

The thing to make sure is that you get the best resolution and the most angle...

since I have no idea how your MCU works.... I have no idea.

 

With the logitech I do this.

 

Plug in device.

Metre the sensor, adjust magnet until sensor is outputting half of max and min Vout.

Unplug device and then plug back in.

This will let the device calibrate it's "neutral rudder" at the voltage the sensor is outputting.

I can then go to the logitech diagnostic thingy in windows and check the rudder position.

 

If I did all this correctly without bumping anything then...

 

Rudder will be neutral and

full left on the rudder bar will give full left on the logitech diagnostic thingy and

full right on the rudder will give full right on the logitech diagnostic thingy and

they will both be proportional to rudder input. and

symetrical.

 

 

Point:

 

How your MCU does this I have no idea and it's up to whoever wrote the code for it. 

 

It is tricky. : - )

 

The MCU calibration is important, not widely understood and abused by amateur engineers.

 

And I am talking about the MCU calibration NOT the windows calibration.

 

unless you have a "calibrate" routine with a button to make it happen then pretty much when you power

up it will claibrate OR maybe no calibration and it is just outputting what ever. Which is not so good.

 

hmmm... I will take some pics.... after lunch....

 

S!

 

P


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