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What is a good set of control gear - high end?


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#1 chazcon

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 07:22

Joystick, rudders, throttle, and head tracker. What's the hot tip these days? Cost not much of  an issue.

 

Many years ago I had Thrustmaster gear, long since gone and surely obsolete anyway.

 

Thanks !


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#2 J2_SteveF

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 07:46

I'm running a Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas, center mounted with an extension in a gameseat. With Slaw device 109 pedals and tir5.

I consider that quite high end.

 

CH are still available when you can find them, but they have fallen behind in the pack IMO

 

There are other options that go even higher.

 

There is a guy in the UK that will make you a Spitfire pit if you have endless pockets

http://www.spitsim.co.uk/

 

Then there is VKB and BRD in Russia. VKB have a new stick coming out soon, the gunfigher that looks interesting. Can be set up lke a 109 column.

http://vkbcontroller.../DSC00461-1.jpg

 

And BRD, fella called Baur who can be contacted via SimHq or the DCS forums, he does bespoke stuff

http://simhq.com/for...aur`s_KG13_Grip

 

And Slawdevice pedals, easily the best pedals you can get right now....again just my opinion. 

 

www.facebook.com/slaw.device

 

 


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#3 chazcon

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 08:51

Great info, thank you.

 

Wouldn't it be cool to have a WWI vintage stick, leather wrapped, etc?


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#4 Pirato

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 15:15

I can highly recommend the Spitsim Edge Throttle module. I have two of them, one lever is custom made to fit the Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle handle. Attached File  002.JPG   220.77KB   4 downloads

 

It may be some Do-it-yourself involved though. Also the Baur BRD-DS is highly recomended,but you may find it lacks some Buttons. Atleast the included KG13 Steuerknüppel grip has only 4 Buttons. I also use MFG Crosswind pedals for over 3 Years,without ever having any problems.


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#5 Dutch2

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 17:28

Ask Sokol1 he can be found at simhq or at the official Bos forum, he is easy to trace in the hardware sections.
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#6 J2_SteveF

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 19:10

I can highly recommend the Spitsim Edge Throttle module. I have two of them, one lever is custom made to fit the Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle handle. attachicon.gif002.JPG

 

It may be some Do-it-yourself involved though. Also the Baur BRD-DS is highly recomended,but you may find it lacks some Buttons. Atleast the included KG13 Steuerknüppel grip has only 4 Buttons. I also use MFG Crosswind pedals for over 3 Years,without ever having any problems.

Nice Pirato

 

Hardware envy  :)

 

I've been looking at his Edge products, you could make a really nice WWI/II pit out of that.


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#7 Pirato

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 20:28

Thanks, it took a while to make a decision. But I'm glad I did. It was planned to only have one of those to replace my Warthog throttle. But I was very impressed by the feel and quality ,so I ordered a second one for use as mixture and radiator etc. The levers really feel excellent and tension can also be adjusted if necessary. Functionality is the same as the Warthog Throttle thanks to the Cougar throttle handle. It has the same amount of buttons as the Warthog,except for the switches on the base. I rarely used those anyway. I think any handle can be fittet to one of those levers.


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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#8 chazcon

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 14:34

Pirato, that setup is very cool. With it I see you have 4 levers - throttle, mixture, radiator - what do you use the 4th lever for? Altitude throttle or stab trim I suppose?


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#9 Pirato

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 15:07

The yellow one is used for Propeller pitch on WW2 Aircraft.


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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#10 chazcon

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 14:40

After much online reading & research:

 

Pedals: Hard choice between MFG Crosswind and Slaw 109 pedals - really leaning towards the Slaw pedals.

 

Throttle: EDGE setup, Pirato you have me sold.

 

Stick: Whew tough one. I do want a long stick, realistic throw etc. I want a stick that I can eventually modify to have a WWI type grip at the top. The EDGE is a contender, but I really should correspond with Baur first. Question: What is the length of a real WWI stick? or WW2 for that matter. I'm think probably only 16-18" the way cockpits are configured. You really don't sit upright as in a chair, your butt is closer to the 'floor' of the cockpit and your legs extended a bit.


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#11 tracy522

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:36

I use the VKB Gladiator Pro and the VKB T-rudder pedals.  I am very satisfied with both the stick and pedals.  They are   (in my opinion)   the best I have ever used.

I think everyone has his own idea about sticks and pedals as well as what sim is best or worst.  I don't think you can get a higher quality High End stick and pedals for the money.

Good Luck  and no matter what you choose ENJOY.   :icon_e_wink:  


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#12 chazcon

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:28

What do you think about head trackers? Is this a cool thing that works well? In concept it sounds neat.


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#13 Panthercules

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 05:05

What do you think about head trackers? Is this a cool thing that works well? In concept it sounds neat.

 

IMHO, it is indeed the one key thing you can get to most improve your experience (after a joystick).  I've been using TrackIR (with the pro clip) for years, and wouldn't even think about flying without it.  Some folks seems to be having good luck with some of the cheaper, DIY alternatives - something to consider if you need to save money and don't mind maybe having to fiddle around a bit more to get it working.


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#14 chazcon

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:00

Ok this is it:

 

Stick: Baur KG-13 floor mount

Pedals: Slaw Device Dora (Bf-109)

Throttle: (2) Spitsim EDGE

Head: TrackIR

Headset: Sennheiser GAME ONE through a Schiit Fulla 2 using Equalizer APO and a Peace UI

 

I see a pit in my future...


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#15 chazcon

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:41

Got my TrackIR 5 - wow, just wow...


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#16 Ice_Age

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:45

Got my TrackIR 5 - wow, just wow...

 

Pretty amazing isn't it?

 

If you want to go further, I have an additional device to recommend to you:  a 'Buttkicker' tactile transducer. (http://thebuttkicker.com/gamer2)


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#17 Pirato

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 11:45

The Buttkicker device is nice,but I got serious troubles with my Neighbours from the appartment below mine. They thought their ceilling is breaking down every moment lol. So better make sure no one lives below your rooms.


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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#18 chazcon

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 19:57

I've seen the Buttkicker bolted underneath a few Obutto or homemade pits - very cool - but yeah, my downstairs neighbors would have a problem with that lol!


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#19 Ice_Age

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 23:05

Yeah, it's probably not worth the trouble if you have people downstairs, but even this can apparently be addressed by mounting your chair on rubber isolation feet (the link I provided above also provides these).  I have no idea how well they actually work to isolate the vibration from the floor.  You of course have a "volume" control, so just like you would for your subwoofer, you can set it to an acceptable level that vibrates your chair without rattling the whole house.

 

@steveF: I recently saw a picture of your flight sim pit on another website and am pretty impressed, especially with your left side console. 


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#20 Pirato

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:42

I have tried to solve the problem with 10mm thick Rubbermats,the same you can  put under Washing Machines, it didn't help a bit. I have to add that it is an old house with a wooden floor so this might add up to the problem.


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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#21 J2_SteveF

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 13:08

Ice. That was an older configuration, when i was playing a lot of CloD. Set up for Spitfire. The panel covered magneto's, sight setup and the 2 compass.
The console is now gone.
I just use a warthog throttle and saitek quadrant and trim attatched to the side of my chair these days.

It's a nice setup and adds to the immersion. But unfortunately doesn't add anything to my skillz. I've used a lot of different hardware and pits over the years and everytime i see a thread talking sbout the advantage high end hardware gives you I always have a lol moment.
My best days simming, when i considered myself to be among the better flyers was in RB3D. With a 17" CRT and MSFFB.

These days I just enjoy the flying and hope to stay alive
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#22 chazcon

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 02:09

"...It's a nice setup and adds to the immersion. But unfortunately doesn't add anything to my skillz.


These days I just enjoy the flying and hope to stay alive..."

 

yep yep. hardware does nothing for your skill, only practice and dedication helps. And in my case nothing helps lol. But it's fun stuff nonetheless.


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#23 Ice_Age

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 05:52

 

 

yep yep. hardware does nothing for your skill, only practice and dedication helps. And in my case nothing helps lol. But it's fun stuff nonetheless.

 

Yes and no.  I believe that with the same level of practice and dedication, the guy with the uber-machine and cockpit-like setup is likely to perform somewhat better than the guy squinting at his tiny display, stuttering away at 15 fps and struggling to control his airplane with fluidity! 


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#24 Zooropa_Fly

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 06:47

Have to disagree Chazcon...

 

Stick extensions, high end pedals, large screen, maximum resolution, frame rates... all capable of nudging the skill levels in the upwardly direction !

Probably not the butt-kicker though !

 

:icon_e_salute:


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#25 J2_SteveF

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 09:21

In recent years I have gone through a 32" 1080p tv as a monitor to a 32" 1440p monitor to a 34" ultrawide 3440x1440 monitor. Spotting was easier on the 1080p TV.

In fact I've gone back to the 32" 1440 because I was failing miserably with spotting on the ultrawide. That has now been consigned to my work PC.

 

The pit feels nice and adds to the immersion. But last year for a period of time while we were moving house I went back to using an MSFFB2 on a desk on my work PC, using a 24" 1080p monitor. IMO opinion I did better in that period than I do currently. However kill ratio's aside, I prefer the pit, because it does give me something extra. It just doesn't make me an ace.

 

Yes there are advantages to having good hardware. In your analogy ICE you are right. But if you have a "good" setup you wont improve by having a "great" setup.


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#26 Pirato

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 15:53

I only have my "Cockpit" setup and high end Hardware for immersion. Sure,it helps with accuracy of controlling the aircraft and shooting. I still get my butt kicked by people only using a cheap Joystick. Some are just excellent virtual pilots.

 

Sometimes I wish I just had a simple setup,like I used to. Desk and a Joystick,maybe Rudderpedals. It just takes less room and less maintenance lol


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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#27 chazcon

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:53

Is it safe to say that those of you who built a pit, had visions of it making you a better sim pilot, and now on the backside of that you realize it really didn't?

 

I'm in the mode now where I dream of buying the nose or a fuselage section and wouldn't it awesome if... maybe this is where you were back then? That perspective would be interesting to know.


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#28 J2_SteveF

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:43

No. I started using a pit nearly 10 years ago. The deciding factor was immersion. The point is that it doesn't give you an advantage. That accusation has been levied at me in the past. That I do well because of my hardware. Which is not the case.
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#29 Pirato

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 15:07

No,I built my pit so I have room for all my stuff  properly placed. And because having the controls set up to what I think is matching  a real aircraft as close as possible. I've never sat in a real Warbird or something simlar and most likely never will.

I believe people with a good stick with a short throw will have the advantage over me with my long throw Stick. I need my whole arm to move to full deflection in any direction. With a short throw you need to barely move the arm. And you can compensate the lack of fine movements with the use of ingame Response curves.

 

SteveF, I'm curious about your setup. If you don't mind,could you post a link please? I'm always looking for ideas and improvements to my own pit.

 

Edit: I may add ,that since I'm using a Stick with a long throw my gun accuracy has improved by a good bit.


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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#30 Surfimp

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 20:13

For me, in RoF, getting Crosswinds pedals was the biggest upgrade. They instantly made planes with "touchy" rudders, like the SPAD, much easier to control compared to the Logitech and CH pedals I had used before. I am not sure exactly why this is the case, but I believe it was a combination of the greater width of the Crosswinds as well as the significantly better build quality. They are simply wonderful and "just work" even after 3yrs and hundreds of hours' use.

Early on I switched to a Thrustmaster T16000m on the recommendation of Josh Echo and it really improved my gunnery and overall control. It's a cheap but very good stick and has given me 5+ yrs of totally reliable service. I sometimes toy with the idea of getting a Warthog or VKB but am not convinced it would actually be an upgrade. I am able to reliably get gunnery stats in the 15-20% or better range, now that I have learned how to do proper deflection shooting. I used to be in the 3-7% range with the Logitech G940, due both to inexperience and the inherent inaccuracy in that stick.

Lastly I use the CH Pro Throttle and feel it's quite good. It is solid and the switches have proven very reliable for 3+yrs of service.

TrackIR is fantastic and I wouldn't fly without it.


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#31 J2_SteveF

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 16:49

Back in the day there used to be a flyer in IL2 called MetalG.
He used to hand me my arse every time I met him online and I mean every time. I used to dread it when he was in the server because iI knew what the inevitable outcome would be.

I found out one day that he flew in full real servers, dealing it out to everyone using just a joystick. No TIR, no peddles, just a single joystick with twist rudder and snap views.

Good hardware does make up for some things, but sometimes you are either good or you are not.
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