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L11 Zeppelin Mod WIP Preview


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#1 Tzar

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 23:01

L11 Zeppelin Mod WIP Preview                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          By Fritz Flipitz

Original Mod & Posts Here    

 

Zep1Preview.jpg

 

Zep2Preview.jpg

 

Rework of my original skin & Alpha WIP
Windows are now windows, more on this.

 

LUA & Mod Work
 

Pilot – Pictures  1, 2, 7
Moved forward to his seat

Gondola Gunners – Pictures 3, 4, 5, 6, 11
Lowered  Gunner Cells to be closer to the floor
Modded the Felixf2a gunner cells so they can be skinned.
Edited the alpha channel to remove walls, a seat, and the upper gunner position.
Edited Zeppelin LUA use the new modded Felixf2a Gunner Cells

 

Work I am thinking of doing
Mod the upper gunners and remove all unwanted graphics or replace them.



Windows Issues I cannot fix – Help Requested

Inside_window_detail.jpg

 

While reworking my skin I finally noticed that the widow location in the wire mesh for the inside center windows, is upside down. You can see my number marks at the top of the skin and then at the bottom of the window picture.

The next two problems showed up when I figured out how to make the alpha work for the widows.

As you can see the “inside” widows look great, but in pictures 1, 2, 7 you can see pixelated blocks on the outside upper and lower windows.   The light grey lines on the outside windows are caused by the alpha as well. The rear Gondola (not pictured) has two windows that have no window effects at all and are always a solid color on the inside and clear from the outside.

So the conclusion I am coming to is some issue with the widow glass in the model. Either the windows could be moved in the model as per the picture above or the effects need to be reversed for all the windows and two back windows updated with new effects is possibly needed to correct this? This is may be an issue for Genius?

Anyone else skinning this having any luck with glass?

Fritz

 

Note: if you want my current alpha before release, PM me.


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#2 Panthercules

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 23:45

This looks so cool !  Thanks to all you guys working on making zeps a possibility after all these years!


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#3 testid

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 04:53

I agree, this looks great!

A point to consider for the control car: there should be two ships wheels. the one at the front of the car controls the rudder and there would most likely have been one mounted to the steersman's left, port side of the control car. This wheel controls elevator attitude and the operator station would also include the bouyancy instrumentation and controls, usually mounted just above eye level.

I don't think I have any good interior shots of the control cabin for this specific class, but this control arrangement was common and persistent across several classes that I have seen pix of.

Not adding this detailing is obviously perfectly acceptable, just wanted to toss a couple pfennigs in.

NB I brought L23 down yesterday inadvertently (attempting the Dr Zebra maneuver, sorry boys) and got footage and screenies, will post soon. The ship did break in two as had been previously noted, but not the way one would expect, surely a mod-based limitation. I will post the AAR in Genius' original thread.
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#4 Plank

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 09:54

Can we have "Zep" launched planes as well, thank you. !!!

 

( How do they start the engine? rummage rummage.... mmm snails...)

 

Salute!

 

Plank.


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Captured again!

 


#5 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 12:14

Looking very good.

 

Windows Issues I cannot fix – Help Requested...

I am not a professional model maker or texture artist, just learned by trial and error, but as far as I can tell your texture problems are not an issue with how RoF renders glass but is a function of your UV mapping and texture painting.

 

While reworking my skin I finally noticed that the widow location in the wire mesh for the inside center windows, is upside down. You can see my number marks at the top of the skin and then at the bottom of the window picture.

Looking at your images above, I'm not exactly sure what the problem is because I don't know what you're trying to do.  As you say, if the texture is mapped upside down for those sections then simply flip or rotate that section in the texture image file as you like.  It will look fine on render and nobody will know.

 

...in pictures 1, 2, 7 you can see pixelated blocks on the outside upper and lower windows. ...

This pixelated edge seems to appear only on windows that have angled edges (not rectangles or squares), correct?  If so I suspect you have painted a jagged edge on the alpha layer, so you need to zoom-in on the texture with Photoshop or GIMP and more carefully paint that edge to not leave it jagged.  It may also be a result of those windows being very small on the overall large texture so its dimensions are only a few pixels long and wide, and also the UV for those windows are placed at an angle. 

 

If I may pass along some advice...

 

Again, I only learned from trial and error myself, but found that one of the most important steps to a good looking model is the UV mapping process.  It is also one of the hardest to learn and do properly.  Your UV map has a lot of wasted space, and as you point out, sections of the map are flipped incorrectly and perhaps there are some problems with normal facing of some polys. 

 

By re-arranging the parts and optimizing the texture space used you will have more detail on the final rendered model.  Look at some of the RoF aircraft templates.

 

Make sure all UV map sections that need hard edge lines (like window alphas), or sections that have parallel lines across polygons, are placed 'plumb' to the axis of the texture (poly edges are parallel to texture file edge).  In your picture 6 above I see where adjacent polys are not UV mapped correctly, the horizontal lines of the texture are bent below and to the left of the gunner.

 

It is OK when UV mapping to stretch a little the polys that are not rectangles/squares (like your angled windows) in order to make them square and get that sharp edge you desire.  I hope you understand there are limits to this trick. Don't stretch too much or pixels will be drawn-out/streaky and ugly on render, and don't stretch any part of the model that has lines painted on the texture; it will just get weird and can't be resolved without re-mapping.

 

When 'painting' a texture use an image file at least double the dimensions of the final file used in game.  It will look great while you are test-rendering and so keep your motivation high on the project.  When the file size is reduced for game you will loose some detail of course, but the reduction should help smooth painted edges.

 

Every mistake you make is a lesson learned, so if you can find the strength within, do not be afraid to start over, at least with the UV mapping.


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#6 Tzar

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 22:09

Thanks Guys, Glad you like it.

 

TestID - Thanks I'll look for information when I get to the inside.

 

Plank want's the Zeppelin guided torpedoes, Me thinks!

SYN_Bandy  - I agree with many of your points and thank you for the words of encouragement, and tips.

 

This pixelated edge seems to appear only on windows that have angled edges (not rectangles or squares), correct?  If so I suspect you have painted a jagged edge on the alpha layer, so you need to zoom-in on the texture with Photoshop or GIMP and more carefully paint that edge to not leave it jagged.  It may also be a result of those windows being very small on the overall large texture so its dimensions are only a few pixels long and wide, and also the UV for those windows are placed at an angle.

I am committed to figuring this out and getting a better grasp of what I do not understand.

If I understood genius correctly, the inside of the model has a lower texture then the outside texture, to save on polygons.  So low detail on the inside – but the large pixels shows up on the outside,  If I move the pixels any further then I get holes on the outside when looking in. I guess it makes sense, you are looking through the glass and seeing the remanence of the larger pixels on the inside?  This is why I think flipping the windows maybe the solution and skinning pixels my not work.

 

Make sure all UV map sections that need hard edge lines (like window alphas), or sections that have parallel lines across polygons, are placed 'plumb' to the axis of the texture (poly edges are parallel to texture file edge).  In your picture 6 above I see where adjacent polys are not UV mapped correctly, the horizontal lines of the texture are bent below and to the left of the gunner.

Took me a moment to understand this, you are talking about the lines that are curved when two different parts of the model meet.  I’ll try to apply your techniques when I redo the ribs.

 

Before I write you a book and if you are willing to help further please PM me and I’ll send you my skin and alpha.  I’m happy to get any more input you have.  I put many hours getting the windows to where they are and I still do not fully understand what I need to do to make them right.   
 

Fritz

 

 


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#7 testid

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 03:23

misc notes, dumped here just to keep them to hand.

Google image searches on control car interiors produce more and better imagery than similar searches ten and twenty years ago (unsurprising).

There appears to be an image of a non-Zeppelin control car interior, from the Schutte-Lanze 11, on pinterest, sourced to an LTA forum I need to go excavate. It follows the layout convention specified above.

The most commonly reproduced car interior is that of the Hindenberg, which conforms to my notes above (elevator wheel port, bouyancy above elevator wheel). However, I noted R101 and USS Macon interiors as well, in addition to a particularly intersting control cabin interior which appeared to be housed in the nose of an LTA vessel. These interiors are all postwar, of course.

The UK ship reverses the layout, with the elevator station starboard. Generally, as well, the ship's telegraph is stationed opposite the elevator wheel in the images I was just looking at.

Next sweep I will try to gather the pics and repost to imgur to share here.
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#8 borntoolate

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 05:22

After a long time away, I come back and find this (and the original) thread ...... and it is like a late Christmas present!

 

Finally, a reason (besides Gotha's) to fly Home Defense! :icon_e_smile: 

 

Thank-you, Tzar!


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"We had a strict code of honor: you didn't shoot down a cripple and you kept it a fair fight." Wilfrid May


#9 Plank

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 06:40

Actually I was suggesting" Zeppelin launched planes, did they not do those in WW1?

 

S! P.


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Captured again!

 


#10 borntoolate

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 03:12

Actually I was suggesting" Zeppelin launched planes, did they not do those in WW1?

 

S! P.

No. First air launched aircraft were from US dirigibles in the 1930's.... the USS Macon, and USS Akron.


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"We had a strict code of honor: you didn't shoot down a cripple and you kept it a fair fight." Wilfrid May


#11 Lothar29

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 01:21

OMG!! go to new Cinematic Video :) Thx for this Best Work and your time


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#12 Tzar

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  • Posts: 86

Posted 04 January 2017 - 02:14

Zep3Preview.jpg

 

Zep4Preview.jpg

 

 

Thanks for the kind words, but please drop by and thank Genius and his crew they made the mod happen!

What I do is Mod things... Genius said he was moving on to the next project, so I decided to mod his mod and fix my skin.

Update:
1.)Windows -  I cannot fix the glass edges, moving on to finishing the skin and modding the upper gunners.  You can see no ripping inside the gondola but outside at a closer distance there is ripping around the windows.
2.&4.) Working on normalizing shadow effects - Never work with a Grey Aluminum Base! (where is the slams head on desk repeatedly emote????)
3.) That guy looks mean!
5.) WTF....???  Put down the schnaps and pick up a gun man!!!  -  Can anyone tell me if the gondola gunners from Genius's original mod moves the gun to both sides or did I break it when modding the gunners?
6.) updated Gondola internals - Not sure what I am going to do here, wood was not the proper material for the floor but using the felixstowe texture('s) seems to work with the gunners.  .

Weathering and a few other tidbits and I should be done. Happy New Year!

 

Fritz

 


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#13 RiverRat

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 14:30

Really cool to see this! :icon_e_salute:


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