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DR1 vs Camel. ( What do new players think?)


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#1 Plank

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 03:11

Dear chaps

 

I decided to bring this up to see what some of the NEWER players have to say.

 

I know this have been thrashed to death in the past but that was in the past and

you chaps have had a good bash at it so it's time for a new bunch to muck in.

 

 

Dear Trup, if this gets out of hand then please clip out the obviously ranty rubbish.

and try to keep the thread unlocked. ( if you think the thread is totally rubbish then....)

 

To start the ball rolling I would like to submit some observations of my own. 

( and please don't jump on them as rubbish, lets hear what others have to say.) 

 

 

The Camel.

 

Not very easy to fly aggressively.

The difference between not stall and serious stall is very sharp.

When stalling you are in serious trouble. ( lack of altitude kills.)

Stall drill is worth learning.

Maximum turn is good but very difficult to maintain, unless you are a veteran camel driver.

 

 

The Dr1

 

Quite easy to fly aggressively.

Quite hard to stall. ( but it can )

The stall is very easy to get out of, in fact doing nothing often helps.

Maximum turn is easy to obtain and no serious challenge holding it.

 

To qualify my observations I have put in time in both and specifically focused on MP turn fighting, 

general barnstorming and amateur test flying. 

 

My general feeling is that the planes are not complimentary and that the DR1 is the superior

turn fighter and that the Camel is relegated to chasing lesser planes where it's safe usable turning

mode will be superior. 

I have seen the Camel used in a B n Z style which seems less stressful for pilot and well within

it's capabilities, the obvious point being: to not get in a turn fight with the enemy if you can help it.

 

 

I am no Camel jockey by any stretch and by comparing my ability in both planes in an A/B

style test  I have found the DR1 is by far much easier and less demanding and frankly much

safer to the pilot than the Camel.

 

Obviously things are not going to change and that matches between these two planes will

be augmented by pilot skill, engagement type and other factors, etc etc.

To get the most out of Camel, in particular, requires a fundamental understanding of where it fails, 

and how to deal with this when it does, as this usually becomes very fatal.

 

I personally am terrible in the camel and am sick and tired of tossing it at the mud trying to

turn fight other planes in it. ( We have another plane which is much better suited to turn fighting.)

 

 

Flying the DR1 on the other hand is delightful. poking it through gaps in hedges, under bridges and then

slapping it into the tricky left hand bank turn is great fun. Even the left hand spin stall with the right hand torque reaction roll

is a joy to practice and master. ( though it will make you a good target in MP air quake.)

Also the nose down snap roll is quite a thrill. ( Always hold your ashtray down for this one.)

 

To wrap up:

 

I would like to master the Camel as a turn fighter, it is supposed to be our best one?

Maybe there is something I am personally doing wrong but without special attention from another able camel

driver I am at a loss to see what it is.  ( Trying to turn too much I suspect. )

 

The Dr1 is basically great all round. The only weak point being I can see is the left hand turn float up which can leave you

a bit stranded in the air, but with proper rudder use becomes easy to avoid. I think you rudder first then roll

carefully. It's pretty easy to practice as you won't spin stall to your death. So there is no excuse to see that over the mud.

 

 

and a note to the wise/veterans etc.

 

Lets see some useful stuff posted, rather than the normal heated debate.

Links to other old threads/posts would be grand as would tips and advice.

( Particularly managing a turn fight in the Camel as this seems much harder

than in a DR1.)

 

One last thing second to last thing,

a quick and painless test is the A/B duel where you swap planes to compare

and contrast. ( with real pilots.)  I suggest you try this a few times before passing judgement.

If you try dueling in the same style it will help more. I.e both pure turn fighting,

rather than one turning and the other BnZ'ing.

 

Finally: no I am not trying to start an argument or inflame old wounds.

 

Salute!

 

Plank. ( Actually, a Camel vs DR1 only mission would certainly illustrate salient points...)


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#2 Zooropa_Fly

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 08:15

To nail a Dr1 from a Camel, it's best to have an energy start on it.

Then you need to maintain that. Keep it higher and flip the thing around on a sixpence when you turn.

 You can do this via a short hard 'kick' on the rudder. This takes practice as the Camel is balanced on a knife edge.

Timing is crucial, and one tip I'd give is think of the oppostite rudder as a brake when necessary.

 

Blipping on left turns a) will whip your Camel around faster, B) can prevent a stall.

At the moment of blip yank the stick back and you'll feel the blip negate the torque. (can repeat more than once in the same turn)

It's not much, and the blip is usually required to be a fraction of a second. But the margins are small at the sharp end of things.

If you mis-time it and feel a stall kicking in, another short blip can prevent the stall.

(btw you really want your blipper mapped to something you have a finger on all the time).

 

So start higher, and it's the old slashing high yo-yo type thingy's. You have to resist the urge to 'follow' the Dr1. Take your shots and get back 'up' asap.

You can trouble the best Dr1's like this, although you have to be aggressive and stay higher.

If you get flat with them it's curtains.

I'm regularly worrying and beating some Dr1 pilots I never thought I would from a Camel. The top 1% Dr1's on the other hand.. you really have to kill in 1-2 passes. I can't.

 

Taming the Camel has taken me a long time. (must be a slow learner).

But I find it much easier to fly than that other monkey.

Lefties in that are much worse, but as you've noted it does have auto-stall recovery. (one mistake can be enough to get you killed of course).

 

Stick with it - fly only a Camel for the next few weeks. (those darn Nieuports'll get you killed ;) )

And remember the Dr1 is the only Gerry plane you should fear in it !

(So maybe start vs DViif's and Albs - go on Shooting Stars server where you'll have an endless stream of bots to fight with - quick repetition for quick learning).

Accept every foppish flop into the mud or the drink with a smile - it means you're closer to your goal !

 

A few random thoughts old chappy - hopefully better than I will chip in with more nuggets of advice..

(Pop into NFF if you see Gary around - he's our Camel master)

 

:icon_e_salute:


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#3 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 22:13

I find less rudder in the camel is best, only use a good kick to the rudder when needed as in what Fly says. too much rudder and you stall easily. Stay above though it is hard to do against the dr1. You have good guns in the camel almost as good as the dr1. aim at the pilot and engine. 

Now if you really want to take down the dr1 use the pup. You would think the tripe would be the same but it's not.


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#4 Plank

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 06:19

Dear Graham,

 

Here is the CAMEL pitch curve that I am using at the moment.

( I have to hit level Auto pilot every time I try to use chat...)

 

Attached File  Planks Camel curve.jpg   57.92KB   1 downloads

 

I am no expert but I find this to be ok.

 

Salute!

 

Planky.

 

PS. I have about 300mm from axis to the bottom of my grip, on my stick.


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#5 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 11:26

I find the new Camel is much easier to handle than Dr.I, which can still surprise me and go out of control, or into hard to recover form spin. The new tame Camel is relatively free of surprises. I've seen Shot defeat Dr.Is by turning left and waiting for pilot error.

As for going against one, I'd take Strutter B(itch) over her Pup offspring or humped herbivores. She has easily the same sustained turn as Pup, is much more controllable and forgiving (Pups surprise spin is even worse in Dr.I) and rolls much faster (Pups roll is rather sluggish, and Dr.I will outroll it much easier). the only disadvantage are huge wings, easy to blow out - but that's nothing new to Pup pilots, either...


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#6 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 06:25

What surprises me is the tripe. It should turn like the pup but has better guns,


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#7 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 06:26

Does any one else have good curves for the camel they would like to share. I'm still having problems with that beast.


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#8 ZachariasX

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 08:18

What surprises me is the tripe. It should turn like the pup but has better guns,


Should it? It is heavyer than the Pup while having the same wing area. Plus the Tripe has a less efficient wing arrangement, yielding less lift per given wing area.

The Tripe has more power, so there would be the argument of substained vs. instantaneous turn...

Regarding Planks post, against the Dr.I enter the fight fast from above. You can turn so tight you start to black out. You can easily turn inside the Dr.I then and you maintain your energy longer. You will be able to dictate the fight for some time like that. Otherwise, the Dr.I driver needs to make a mistake to let you have him.
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#9 Plank

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 16:09

Planking in the Camel.

 

Getting more throw out of my stick with a change of sensor and magnet position.

This has helped tame the camel! ( It also makes the Dr1 better... oh dear.)

 

Practising this till I am blue in the face:

 

Fly fast and level.

Pull up smooth to maybe 45deg. Smartly.

Rudder hard to the RIGHT plus cut the engine.

The cow will fall to the right nose down spinning slowly to the right.

Take your thumb off the blip switch and the engine will torque the plane left

which will roll you back a bit and then you can pull out and fly off.

It works. It's great. Just don't pull up too hard. How far have you got?

Don't high speed stall it.

 

I have been doing this at roughly 10 or 20 metres and not crashing much.

 

Really smooth stick back and well practised rudder drill is the thing I think.

 

And being very aware of your attitude. Am I nosing up too much? Is this slowing me down?

 

And funnily enough I think practising in the DH2 sets you up quite well for the Camel.

It can turn quite well and seems to fly similarly. Just less drama.

 

all these bits of advice are of course from an amateur.

 

but blinking heck once you get the hang of tossing the Camel around it

becomes quite second nature, and you can actually end up flying it hard without

out stalling.

 

but spin drill is NECESSARY. Very.

 

Salute!

 

Plank.


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#10 Plank

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 16:57

Out turned twice by Dva. Quite tedious.

 

Does Entente actually have a really good turner with two guns? 

 

S! P.  (Dejected.)


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#11 Zooropa_Fly

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 18:56

Camel will out-turn all the Albs.


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#12 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 21:18

Easily
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#13 Plank

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 02:16

Dear chaps,

 

From my experience and observation I have to disagree.

 

in a level fight between a Camel and a DVa the Camel will get lapped.

 

I have seen it, it's painfully obvious and you just can't keep up.

 

Most people flying Entente will AVOID this situation.

 

why?

 

Because they know they will lose.

 

They will try to get an energy fight going and ocassionaly

turn that energy into a very FAST turn.

Yes you can even black out, correct. But...

 

But this is a false sense of turn superiority.

 

When the Camel runs out of puff it cannot beat an also puffing Dva in a

sustained level turn. It will get lapped, then killed.

 

To witt: Show me the proof that this is NOT true and I will eat my hat.

 

 

What I think is happening is that ENERGY fighting is being mixed up

with TURN fighting, they are not the same.

 

If you wish to extol the virtues of the Camel as an energy fighter then yes I

guess the Camel has attributes in this area that the DVa doesn't.

Clearly this is in the Camels favour.  ( Wings don't fall off pulling G's.)

 

Put the two in a turn race and, mmm, one is clearly better.

 

and to clarify: "good turn" is:  how quickly you can complete a full circle.

( Full circle to facilitate the metrics.... so it's one unit turn in n seconds.... )

 

Time and degrees etc.

More degrees in less time is a "better turn".

and more degrees in less time in a lesser radius is "really really good turn".

But that could be a function of stored energy? ( Diving, swooping etc.)

If so, what happens when that runs out?

 

Ah, yes, well.

 

So when your Camel is out of puff and your "really really good turn" becomes

painfully slow you realise that you are going to get shot to death, sooner or later.

and that the wider but better turn the Dva is pulling is quite, frightening.

 

Not to mention the Camel pilot is also trying very very hard not to stall.

 

Oh dear.

 

I look forward to seeing some tracks. The proof is in the pudding....

 

Salute!

 

Plank.


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#14 Plank

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 07:17

I may have left the hand brake on...


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#15 Zooropa_Fly

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 09:10

Once again Planky you may be omitting the crucial variable in all of this..

The Pilots !

 

To keep up with a Camel in turns, anything other than a Dr1 needs to start with the energy advantage.

Once the gap is closed, to stay in the game, the other plane will generally have to be losing altitude to keep up with the Camels' turn.

When the Camel drags the enemy down to ground level it should be done and dusted..

 

But it still needs to be flown appropriately.

 

There are a small number of pilots who can fly super-aggressively in the Alb Dva or DVIIf that me and the Camel have trouble coping with.

And then there's Austin who will duff my Camel up in a DII.

 

You've been flynig the Camel for a few days. Some have flown it for years.

Me ? Maybe a little over a year and it's now my fav ride (used to refuse to fly it).

I'm still improving (I think), but very very slowly.

There is a limit each of our individual abilities. Some of us are more equal than others !

The fact that a Camel is hard to fly on the ragged edge is precicesly why it's more lethal than the Alb.. Pilot Pending !

 

If I gave you Greg Norman's putter - would you putt like Greg Norman ?

 

:icon_e_salute:


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#16 =HillBilly=

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 12:21

 

 

If I gave you Greg Norman's putter - would you putt like Greg Norman ?

What are you doing with Greg Norman's putter? :D


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#17 Cybermat47

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 12:41

From my own experience, I would say that the Dr.I is certainly easier to learn than the Camel, but I wouldn't suggest either of them to new players.

The Camel definitely needs an experienced pilot to be used to it's full potential - one false move and you end up in spin that's sustained by your own engine.
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#18 ZachariasX

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 16:38

in a level fight between a Camel and a DVa the Camel will get lapped.

 

No way. It's not even a contest. Under no circumstances. The Alby has something going for him as long as he is FAST, meaning he pulling into a circle from a dive, but he will bleed that one very fast. An Alby turning with a Camel is a dead Alby.

 

turn that energy into a very FAST turn.

 

Exactly, as I said. But fast meaning flying fast. Flying the same circle at higher speed. This translates also in completing the circle in less time. In other words: a plane with a wider turning circle will be able to catch up to a plane with a smaller turning circle if he is fast enough.

 

Having a small turning circle just masks your disadvantage of being slower. You fly less of a distance to complete the circle. Thus, you can be slower while still catching up with your quarry.

 

The Camel has the feature that it can fly a small and fast circle IF you enter the circle at high speed. This is how you catch the Dr.I  (The Ably is no contest here, unless high up when he has the advantage of diving and zooming as well).

 

and to clarify: "good turn" is:  how quickly you can complete a full circle.

 

Yes. :) As said.

 

So when your Camel is out of puff and your "really really good turn" becomes painfully slow you realise that you are going to get shot to death, sooner or later.

 

IF the other guy (unless it is a Dr.I) is foolish enough to follow you in a turn, he will not live to see that to happen. Besides, the Camel maintains a VERY fast substained turn (rad/sec).

 

Not to mention the Camel pilot is also trying very very hard not to stall.

 

If it is not a Dr.I you're fighting, you can be easy on the stick (and you should). You'll win if he maintains the turn. It's easy.

 

 

 

 


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#19 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 17:43

Dear chaps,

From my experience and observation I have to disagree.


Salute!

Plank.

Your "experience" consists mostly of bad tactics, bad decisions, and lots of dying. But it's easy for you to prove that the D.Va is superior to the Camel as a turn fighter. Get into the a MP server (NFF is probably best for this experiments), select a D.Va, and go turn fight with a Camel flown by a relatively experienced pilot. Let us know how it goes.

I would do it for you, but I don't care enough to debase myself by flying the Camel.
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#20 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 18:21

Or go through logs of top Camel pilots, you'll find some Albatros kills there... wait, wasn't that thread about Dr.Is?


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#21 Plank

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 01:03

Dear chaps,

 

Yes the thread is about DR1 vs Camel.

 

but bear in mind thread topic interest morphology * and side slipping the topic a bit.

 

The other day on WG I was out turned twice in two separate engagements by albies.

Regardless of tactics etc the fact remains it did happen. Unless I was carrying a bomb load

or my plane was damages this seems to fly in the face of popular evidence to contrary.

 

And they were both level and no combatant had an energy advantage.

 

and this starts to make sense when you consider the effects of a stall turn in the camel.

It becomes unresponsive, slow and stops being amazing.

 

Imagine this state in a level bank turn trying to beat an albie.

 

That's what it felt like when I was being lapped. "Flying in custard".

 

and this is relevant to whatever you may be fighting if you are in a Camel.

 

The same can't be said of the DR1.

In the life or death struggle in the tree tops where the plane that can keep

ahead is going to prevail, the Dr1 feels competent. Quite.

 

( Phew managed to bring it back to SC vs Dr )

 

 

A tiny test for the Camel bank turn.

 

NW BT, 50fuel and 500rnds.

 

Circle as tight as you can over the FIVE hangers at the RING OF FIRE.

( when you appear in your plane they are on your right.)

 

Fly at the most left hanger, square on. (Head from the lake over the strip at the hangers. )

So you are crossing the line of the hangers at 90deg.

Bank turn Right and hold it for as long as you can.

( Obviously plowing in from a dive will change the outcome...)

 

Count how many hangers you include in your circle and always fly over the spot you started at.

( so if your turn circle gets tighter you move the circle over a bit )

 

Now the tricky bit.

 

Use a stop watch and time yourself. 

( yes, I know, you have to put your drink/cigarette/wife/husband/hired help/book etc down.)

 

So my circle has been about FOUR hangers in diameter at aprox 12 seconds in the Camel.

( will do the Dr1 and Dva next.)

 

The bank angle I am only guessing may have been 60deg.

( A bank angle guide will be issued to pilots quite soon. )

 

 

Be advised there is and INVISIBLE TREE in the gap between the

hanger and the trees. ( Just fly around the gaps until you find it...)

 

Good grief is that the time.

 

Salute!

 

Plank.

 

PS. I didn't say that the Dva is a superior turn fighter I said I was out turned by them. Twice.

Under the same circumstances. while flying in a Camel which is a "superior" turn fighter.


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#22 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 02:53

PS. I didn't say that the Dva is a superior turn fighter I said I was out turned by them. Twice.

Under the same circumstances. while flying in a Camel which is a "superior" turn fighter.

 

Keep in mind that you are really bad at this game.  If the pilot skill is relatively the same the pilot in the Camel will easily out turn the pilot in the D.Va.


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#23 Tycoon

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 03:46

Dear chaps,

 

From my experience and observation I have to disagree.

 

in a level fight between a Camel and a DVa the Camel will get lapped.

 

I have seen it, it's painfully obvious and you just can't keep up.

 

Most people flying Entente will AVOID this situation.

 

why?

 

Because they know they will lose.

 

They will try to get an energy fight going and ocassionaly

turn that energy into a very FAST turn.

Yes you can even black out, correct. But...

 

But this is a false sense of turn superiority.

 

When the Camel runs out of puff it cannot beat an also puffing Dva in a

sustained level turn. It will get lapped, then killed.

 

To witt: Show me the proof that this is NOT true and I will eat my hat.

 

 

What I think is happening is that ENERGY fighting is being mixed up

with TURN fighting, they are not the same.

 

If you wish to extol the virtues of the Camel as an energy fighter then yes I

guess the Camel has attributes in this area that the DVa doesn't.

Clearly this is in the Camels favour.  ( Wings don't fall off pulling G's.)

 

Put the two in a turn race and, mmm, one is clearly better.

 

and to clarify: "good turn" is:  how quickly you can complete a full circle.

( Full circle to facilitate the metrics.... so it's one unit turn in n seconds.... )

 

Time and degrees etc.

More degrees in less time is a "better turn".

and more degrees in less time in a lesser radius is "really really good turn".

But that could be a function of stored energy? ( Diving, swooping etc.)

If so, what happens when that runs out?

 

Ah, yes, well.

 

So when your Camel is out of puff and your "really really good turn" becomes

painfully slow you realise that you are going to get shot to death, sooner or later.

and that the wider but better turn the Dva is pulling is quite, frightening.

 

Not to mention the Camel pilot is also trying very very hard not to stall.

 

Oh dear.

 

I look forward to seeing some tracks. The proof is in the pudding....

 

Salute!

 

Plank.

If you switch every time you type camel with Dva you literally have an accurate description of the matchup. This hands down wins the most inaccurate post concerning rof I have ever seen. 


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#24 Plank

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 05:03

Keep in mind that you are really bad at this game.  If the pilot skill is relatively the same the pilot in the Camel will easily out turn the pilot in the D.Va.

 

I do not agree. A pilot with basic fundamentals will fly a Dva with much more confidence than a Camel.

Or do you mean relative to the plane they are flying?

A Camel pilot requires a higher degree of focus and intrinsic understanding of their machine.

The classic Camel mistake is the overzealous application of the elevator and the "I can out turn the Dr1" tunnel vision.

this is very easy to do, repeatedly and can become so boring that pilots stop flying the Camel altogether.

 

Ahem, I see I have to prove that a Dva can out turn a Camel.

So I will try to get some track next time I am WG.

 

Obviously there are conditions for where this is so. ( just like a stall or pressing B while parked on the AF with a bomb load.)

 

"When the Camel runs out of puff it cannot beat an also puffing Dva in a

sustained level turn. It will get lapped, then killed."

 

this situation which has cropped up several times now and it is clear as mud that

the DVa is winning the turn fight. 

 

There is the possibility that I was doing something wrong and this may serve as a lesson to

other budding Camel pilots. ( this is where we learn something, right)

However I have been practising and am clearly not a novice any more.

( I can avoid stalling the plane and know when is too much elevator etc. Plus I am quite

comfortable flying it while fighting for my virtual life against either the Dr1 or Dva)

 

so lets say that there are several outcomes.

 

a) I was doing something wrong. ( I may have been air braking with my rudder...)

 

B) In certain circumstances the Dva will out turn the Camel ( we learn to avoid those )

 

c) there is some other reason why my camel was being out turned. ( was I carrying a bomb load? )

 

d) I am a super terrible Camel pilot and was just out flown. ( Not unreasonable to assume. I keep practising. )

 

 

 

There is lies a thing.

 

How do you really eke the best out of your Camel or Dr1?

 

and to wrap up:

 

I feel somewhat biased towards the Camel, it's issues etc, for two major reasons:

 

1) I prefer to fly Entente.

2) I feel the Dr1 pilot does not need half as much coaching as a Camel pilot does.

 

In stating that I do like flying the Dr1 and can clearly see why it is such a ruthless killing machine.

 

I cannot, unfortunately, say that of the Camel, yet. 

 

When I get some track of my Camel getting lapped by a Dva I will post it.

and any DR1 vs Camel tracks.

 

Salute!

 

Plank. ( time to make dinner I feel...)


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#25 Speckled_Jim

Speckled_Jim
  • Posts: 387
  • LocationAmsterdam

Posted 26 September 2016 - 08:47

Something for you to try Plank.

 

Although the Camel turns well once the turn is established, it doesn't tip into the turn particularly quickly. This is most notable when for example you have a few degrees of bank in one direction, at the

point you need to turn very hard in the other direction.

 

I imagine you must have noticed how fast a Camel can snap-roll by simply pulling back the stick a little, using rudder to determine direction. Well, it's possible to use this nice little feature to help with conventional turning.

 

If you find that it's a bit sluggish rolling into your desired direction of turn, then very quickly, and for just a fraction of a second, add a small amount of back-stick. With a bit of practice you'll be able

to snap to the required angle of roll almost instantly. Which can come in very handy.

 

Best of luck with your experiments.

 

Salute!


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#26 Plank

Plank
  • Posts: 2835
  • LocationNew Zealand.

Posted 26 September 2016 - 12:55

Dear Speckled,

 

Thank you for the luck! I need it...

 

I have been experimenting with what I call a "lazy snap roll" at ludicrous altitudes.

( put an ash tray in the middle of the field then L.S.R over it and try to ash your "ciggy" in it...)

It might actually be a very acute barrel roll... 

 

It's a bit like getting a huge custard sponge brandy cake, flipping it end for end then, slowing the film down and then "being" the custard sponge thingy.

It's terrifying!

But I am surprise I have not crashed yet doing it,

However being extremely careful with the flappy bits and the wiggle tail thing is crucial to ones survival.  !!!

 

It's so mind bendinginly excruciating that I think a stiff drink before. during. and afterwards. is just the ticket. Quite, I say.  No ice please.

 

Also I was having an chat with a Mr Jarvis ( Salt of the earth.)  at the aerodrome the other day and tried out some stall drill

Blinking heck, my skills have exceeded their station and I could not get the flipping thing to stall!

I think Mr Jarvis was wondering what I was up.

Flying straight up like an arrow I waited,

and then a little bit of a flutter and then oh, she's righted herself. Again.

 

Well, I was ever so cross.

 

Not stalling when I want it to! Blinking heck.

 

Finally I managed it, and down we plunged. ( had to park the cigarette on the ashtray and hold it down with my elbow. )

 

Yip. Waggled the stick. Crossed my fingers and toes. and...

 

Out she popped, zooming across the lawn. Quite a charge old chap. Very refreshing.

 

I think in the excitement of living a few hours more I had lifted my elbow and my smoke had vanished...

( I will probably get a note soon saying that littering is a capital offence... from the owners.)

 

So yes. I will have my day in the sun, er. mud. and something.

 

More Brandy?

 

Salute!

 

Plank. ( Confirmed pedestrian, cyclist and white wash inspector.)


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#27 Plank

Plank
  • Posts: 2835
  • LocationNew Zealand.

Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:54

Dear chaps,

 

Reporting back from the front, the back and the bar.

 

Still bashing around in the Dr1 on WG BT. Yes it's pretty solid.

 

Now on to the Camel. Ahem.

 

Here is a really good exercise for growing some balls in your Camel.

 

Find a clearing, with trees either side.

 

Get your Camel doing figure of eights in this clearing and fly as close to the trees as possible. 

You want to be really really low. Here is a sketch:

 

Attached File  Camel bank turn and roll drill.jpg   85.55KB   0 downloads

 

This trains you to judge when to pull back on the stick,

how to constantly trim  play the elevators and rudder to stop you smashing into the ground

and it trains you to roll smartly at the crossing. There is little or no margin for error.

 

and if I can do it successfully while smoking then you can too.

 

This is a terrific warm up and it's good for your bottle.

 

Once you select a good place to do it and then you get the hang of it you should be able

to keep this up all day.

I would suggest you start with a large clearing then get smaller as you get better.

You want it to be furious and punishing at some stage to really get the hang of

"fanging out" the Camel, and you will crash a lot if you are new to this kind of

flying.

 

But it's good fun once you get the knack.

 

Don't rise up above the trees when you bank turn, keep your wingtips just everso much off the cricket pitch.

 

If you can do this in your sleep you are half way to being a Camel ace. ( In my humble opinion.)

 

Salute!

 

Plank..

 

PS. Stick to about 50 fuel. or more. : )


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#28 gavagai

gavagai
  • Posts: 15542

Posted 06 October 2016 - 15:22

Camel vs Dr.I brings back memories of old times.  If one was found to have an advantage over the other you'd quickly have a 40 page thread.


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#29 GrahamshereGT

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  • Member
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Posted 07 October 2016 - 00:03

Camel vs Dr.I brings back memories of old times.  If one was found to have an advantage over the other you'd quickly have a 40 page thread.

Yes the camel was a good match up for the dr1, until some one bitch about it and now we have what we have now, a sad sack of a camel.


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#30 Plank

Plank
  • Posts: 2835
  • LocationNew Zealand.

Posted 08 October 2016 - 08:40

Oh dear,

 

I took a Camel to try and knock Tycoon off his Dr1 perch. ( Failed quite a lot.)

 

I died, and went straight back to my N17.  ( which I was getting slaughtered in but I just bit my lip harder.)

 

 

The Camel feels turgid, boring, fat, lacklustre and talk about trying to see around the blinking wing ever three seconds.

 

Take the DR1.

 

If you want to become an ace in short order then the Dr1 is for you. Learn it's not so terrible quirks and off you go.

 

If however you are a lone wolf sado-masochist turner, try the Camel, you may like it... as there is no accounting for acquired tastes... ahem.

 

I will try bashing on in it as there are times when I feel two guns might be better than one. only just.

 

But I am not overly impressed.

 

Maybe it's roll is just too uninspiring, and it's turn is just a tiny bit lazy. Or something.

 

So I will shut up now and move on to some other topic far off in the distant haze....

 

Salute!

 

Plank.


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#31 gavagai

gavagai
  • Posts: 15542

Posted 08 October 2016 - 13:04

Yes the camel was a good match up for the dr1, until some one bitch about it and now we have what we have now, a sad sack of a camel.

:icon_boring:


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#32 Plank

Plank
  • Posts: 2835
  • LocationNew Zealand.

Posted 08 October 2016 - 14:09

Ah ha... he said...  

 

I have a cunning new thing that helps with the Camel.

 

POV snaps that look over the wing, through the cut out. Exactly as you want.

 

Head right up, right over one side then then looking across over the other wing through the cut out.

 

I have it set up to get the best possible view while canted over in a bank. Brilliant.

 

Hat thingies are all the rage now...

 

Salute!

 

Plank.


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#33 ZachariasX

ZachariasX
  • Posts: 794

Posted 08 October 2016 - 15:12

[...]

The classic Camel mistake is the overzealous application of the elevator and the "I can out turn the Dr1" tunnel vision.

[...]

 

The only classic thing about such "tunnel vision" is mistaking the light at the end of the tunnel with the headlights of an incoming train.


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