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Fighting in the vertical (how does Winged Warrior do it?)


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#41 JoeCrow

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 11:55

I am not asking questions, I am making assertions. ;)

 

The target must be lost from view in this unless you have a camera in the bottom of your fuselage.

 

 

 

I think that you are probably commited to following the practice manoeuvre too literally. It is the principle that matters. If you keep the enemy in constant view you are using lead-pursuit and point-and-shoot tactics. What really matters is knowing where the enemy is. Especially with energy tactics which rely heavily on displacement manoeuvres and lag pursuit. Remember also that your opponent also has to see you and you are behind and above him. Try to think of it as trying to keep your lift-vector (canopy roof) on your opponent as you make a displacement roll. 

 

Here's a good example of a displacement roll (based on the wingover-roll) from Requiem. Theory is one thing but practicality is something else. I'm just making a suggestion; the decision to try it is entirely yours.

https://www.youtube....h?v=guVMVY2C6mM

 

 

 

 

Cheers.

 


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#42 unreasonable

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 12:47

OK I give up. Spout jargon all you like, but spare me any more patronizing comments.

 

I have tried all of these moves and given up on almost all of them.  I try to keep the enemy in constant view because I have found from hundreds of hours flying that losing sight of the enemy makes it extremely difficult to pick them up again, especially if they are under the horizon and you are simultaneously having to keep a look out for other enemy planes and your own wing men.  Rolling of any kind increases drag and hence loses energy, given how little excess energy most of our WW1 planes have to start with it should be minimized if the intention is to gain height. My current mount, the N17, goes from maximum safe speed to stall in just a few seconds when put into a steep climb at full power, the last thing I want to be worrying about is some theoretical CFM.


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#43 J2_Jakob

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 13:40

The target must be lost from view in this unless you have a camera in the bottom of your fuselage.

 

 

Yes, it is lost from view indeed, but only for a brief second, exactly because your plane is rolling. If you know, where to look, you can regain visual almost immediately and KEEP IT, because now you're looking at him over the top and no wings/engine can obstruct your view here.

ie. the bandit is moving from my right to left. I turn away from him (to the right) and roll. I'm looking behind and below to the right. Bandit appears in my FOV almost instantly. I can safely track him from this moment on throughout the maneuver, until I start shooting or go for another lag-displacement roll or extend, if anything goes wrong... Its main advantage IMO is that it allows me to keep visual while conserving energy and also to align on the bandit's six, forcing him into defensive.  ;)

If I wanted to have a shot on the bandit and I didn't use this roll, I'd have to go for high-deflection shot and if the bandit notices me, he could easily reverse into a lead turn (well, he only needs to make half of it actually, because his course is already nearly perpendicular to mine at this moment) and I'm going to be in trouble very fast. Or I could pull behind the bandit, but this would deplete any potential energy advantage I could have.  :icon_e_deadman:


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#44 JoeCrow

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 07:46

OK I give up. Spout jargon all you like, but spare me any more patronizing comments.

 

 

I was responding to the OPs post and original question about vertical manoeuvres so no patronizing intended. Some folks want to know.

 

Here's another essential vertical manoeuvre involving a displacement roll. This time a using a half-roll instead of a barrel-roll. These manuevres are at the heart of energy fighting. Note that if you are looking over the upper wing instead of through the gunsight it automatically puts you into lag-pursuit. Most of these manoeuvres apply when you are in a faster plane competing against a better-turning bandit. In a better-turning 'turnfighter' you would probably be better advised to use lead-pursuit tactics against a faster plane, which fits with your opinion, but there is no clear distinction. IMHO the Se5a is the best bet for vertical manoeuvres but anyone can use them if they have a height/energy advantage

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=GRBFSxGV0Jc

 

Cheer up. :icon_e_smile:


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#45 BssSniper

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 17:15

CGardner99, on 29 Oct 2015 - 09:26, said:

  Yes I am constantly changing the trim in flight for combat, take off and landing. When I take off I pitch for 65 mph(Vy) by using a sight picture ,set the trim to hold that attitude (all you have to do now is hold a little right rudder and she will climb perfectly hands off) once on station I trim for level flight.  Now she is trimmed for about 120 mph,  when I have found what I intend to bounce, as I dive I roll in some down trim to give me a steady dive angel which is why I believe the SE5a is the best gun platform in game and why almost 40% of my kills end right there. If I failed to get him I usually pitch back up to about 10 degrees above (Vy) till I intercept (Vy) then set trim to hold it. Then as I dive back down I trim for dive angel and do it again and again till he is dead or I need to extend.
  Now combat is tricky, I use it more by feel and experience.  One example I was trying to turn inside a DVllf at speed and simply rolled in a little up trim to allow me to gain a little more pitch authority too pull some lead on him and nailed him. But by doing so you are bleeding speed and energy so be careful and always have a exit plan. I have a CH FighterStick which has a realistic trim button so hopefully your stick has one too. Just like real flying you are constantly changing trim for certain conditions of flight be it attitude, speed or just simply more pitch authority so you can finish off that bad guy. I have hundreds of hours in the SE5a and I'm still learning it. I hope this has helped, but truthfully practice and experience are your best teachers here.

 

Winged Warrior

Sooo, the Se5 has trim? I've never seen trim in anything here...


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#46 J2_Jakob

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 17:27

Sooo, the Se5 has trim? I've never seen trim in anything here...

 

It has.


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#47 Pirato

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 19:28

Look for "Stabilizer" in the controls. Only few allied planes make use of it,namely the SE5a, Sopwith Triplane, RE8, Bristol Fighter and the Airco DH4 as far as I can remember out of my head..


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#48 j9_viper

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 07:16

who is winged warrior?  he new? ive never heard of him


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#49 J2_Jakob

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 09:36

who is winged warrior?  he new? ive never heard of him

 

He gallantly revealed his identity as CGardner99. Hope this helps. :icon_lol:


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#50 Waggaz

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 13:52

A huge thank you to Winged Warrior and the rest of you for your help. I now have the top score on Aces Falling for the SE5a and owe it to this community. For the benefit of those of you learning to fly this wonderful aircraft here are a few things I learned:

1) practice on quick missions against an alibi 400m above. Do it again and again till you can win the fight using energy tactics every time.
2) Know the plane's limits. Don't dive too steep from too far above and be prepared to swoop up and abort an attack if necessary, otherwisw you will almost certainly shed your wings.
3) Learn to roll as you come down and not pull back to turn and track with the bandit. With its great roll rate you should be able to stay with pups and Dr1s
4) use the hockey stick attack - save your main pull back into your enemy when you are close. Don't burn off energy trying to turn with an enemy as you dive
5) always above. If you are below that dr1 you are dead. Just don't do it. Even level attacks are better as long as you keep up your energy after your pass and keep climbing. Don't pull back hard as you turn

Thanks again to all of you!
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#51 j9_viper

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 00:25

A huge thank you to Winged Warrior and the rest of you for your help. I now have the top score on Aces Falling for the SE5a and owe it to this community. For the benefit of those of you learning to fly this wonderful aircraft here are a few things I learned:

1) practice on quick missions against an alibi 400m above. Do it again and again till you can win the fight using energy tactics every time.
2) Know the plane's limits. Don't dive too steep from too far above and be prepared to swoop up and abort an attack if necessary, otherwisw you will almost certainly shed your wings.
3) Learn to roll as you come down and not pull back to turn and track with the bandit. With its great roll rate you should be able to stay with pups and Dr1s
4) use the hockey stick attack - save your main pull back into your enemy when you are close. Don't burn off energy trying to turn with an enemy as you dive
5) always above. If you are below that dr1 you are dead. Just don't do it. Even level attacks are better as long as you keep up your energy after your pass and keep climbing. Don't pull back hard as you turn

Thanks again to all of you!

you are welcome and welcome to ROF!!!  thats good stuff, thats what i did when i first started this game too.  with a lot of practice and time youll learn how to fight, and thats where the game gets really fun. 


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#52 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 13:49

Okay took some pictures...form left to right

The first is (Xy) +10 The more I look at it though it might be a little more than 10 degrees

The 2nd is the sight pic for (Xy) best rate of climb

The 3rd is level flight

So, the best rate of climb is archived at "horizon between windscreen edges and big spars" attitude ;) ?


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#53 CGardner99

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 15:33

  Yes for me,but yours may look slightly different(I have track ir and have it centered to my gunsight).Your height or some other factor may change it slightly. To find yours simply climb at (Vy) Approx 65 mph(105kmph), if you are carrying more than the 20% fuel I use then slightly rasie it to 68pmh(110kmph), then note something in the cockpit in relation to the horizon which allows you to indentify it easily.

 

 

Winged Warrioir


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#54 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 19:42

Ok, now I get it :).  Thank you.


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