Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 8 votes

Germans have it pretty easy in this game


  • Please log in to reply
546 replies to this topic

#521 J2_Trupobaw

J2_Trupobaw
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 4169
  • LocationKraków / Poland

Posted 02 July 2015 - 17:01

:icon_mad: Hey....from SPAD with love  :icon_e_smile:

 

Dance me to the end of love?


keep-calm-and-enjoy-spandau-ballet.png


  • 0

Forum moderator.

Deputy Staffelführer, Jasta 2 ''Boelcke'' http://jasta2.org

“Now now,” Akua chided. “Personal attacks are the mark of failed argument. If you’ve no counterpoint to offer, such flailing only serves to shed further light on your incompetence.”


#522 J99=Hardy

J99=Hardy
  • Posts: 899
  • LocationGermany

Posted 02 July 2015 - 17:47

Nahh, never liked Spandau Ballet...
  • 0

img_3834.png


#523 J2_Trupobaw

J2_Trupobaw
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 4169
  • LocationKraków / Poland

Posted 02 July 2015 - 17:50

Anyone dancing with Spandaus is OK in my book ;)


  • 0

Forum moderator.

Deputy Staffelführer, Jasta 2 ''Boelcke'' http://jasta2.org

“Now now,” Akua chided. “Personal attacks are the mark of failed argument. If you’ve no counterpoint to offer, such flailing only serves to shed further light on your incompetence.”


#524 J99=Hardy

J99=Hardy
  • Posts: 899
  • LocationGermany

Posted 02 July 2015 - 18:56

Like it more when others dance to the rhythm of my Spandaus  :icon_mad:


  • 0

img_3834.png


#525 kimmy_yeager

kimmy_yeager
  • Posts: 650

Posted 06 July 2015 - 14:34

Balance is the key for any successful game.   When you cannot show more than 100 unique people are online  playing your game in a month then you have a game that has problems.  In 2010 (the RoF release time) online play is THE overriding factor for a game yet MP and career mode have been the weakest points of the game.

 

Looking back, I think one of the failures of RoF (RoF would  not be considered a top tier game WRT player base) is that they left the online component up to volunteers that run servers based on their whims.  Few, if any new online pilots stay online after getting a taste of the online side.  The just don't stick around.  

 

For the $5-10 a month it would take to run a server instance you think that 777 would have put one or two up and controlled the experience... but then again, there are not real player control tools to speak of... and banning a player from a server with a free game is not really solving anything.

 

As for balance it seems that the usual suspects have the usual agenda... I guess all the 'real' WWI pilots need something to talk about on teamspeak.  :icon_lol:

 

As for the DVa stats the Steam release means nothing.  Look at the pilot names flying the DVa... they are not newbies.  When one plane, that had little, if any real historical significance is suddenly the number one flown plane SINCE THE FM UPDATE its clear to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together.


  • 0

#526 J99=Hardy

J99=Hardy
  • Posts: 899
  • LocationGermany

Posted 06 July 2015 - 14:46

....

 

As for the DVa stats the Steam release means nothing.  Look at the pilot names flying the DVa... they are not newbies.  When one plane, that had little, if any real historical significance is suddenly the number one flown plane SINCE THE FM UPDATE its clear to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together.

 

Again that stupid "Albatros D.Va is the super duper uber acemaker" thing... it makes me

 

img_3840.jpg


  • 0

img_3834.png


#527 BraveSirRobin

BraveSirRobin
  • Member
  • Posts: 6535
  • LocationHackistan

Posted 06 July 2015 - 15:42

 When one plane, that had little, if any real historical significance is suddenly the number one flown plane SINCE THE FM UPDATE its clear to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together.

 

Which "historically significant" plane do you think the German side should be flying instead of the Alby?


  • 0

The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#528 =HillBilly=

=HillBilly=
  • Posts: 5605
  • LocationSouthern Ozark Mountains

Posted 06 July 2015 - 16:00

 

 

For the $5-10 a month it would take to run a server

 

  When one plane, that had little, if any real historical significance is suddenly the number one flown plane SINCE THE FM UPDATE its clear to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together.

Where do you get these numbers??

Read history,    "two brain cells"  do what?


  • 0

     So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

 
 


#529 Hellshade

Hellshade
  • Posts: 786

Posted 06 July 2015 - 16:24

Some very interesting points on both sides.   For what it's worth, I only have 2 observations to throw in.

 

1.  It's up to 777 if the sim is about historical accuracy or balanced on-line MP gameplay.   I'm not really sure if it's possible to have both since rarely during the real war were both sides equally matched in the air.   The balance shifted constantly.   Balanced MP gameplay might attract more players but will piss off historian types and vice versa.  You can't really please both crowds.

 

2.  Unless you can demonstrate how 777 will generate a bigger profit by making certain, specific changes, I'm guessing all requests for more FM revisions (especially significant ones) will fall on deaf ears, regardless of how accurate or well intentioned they might be.   If they can't make a profit making the changes, there's no real reason to invest the man-hours on them since the complaining isn't going to stop either way.   (See observation #1 above)

 

So while #1 may be true (people can argue to the contrary if they wish), it's probably all a moot point anyway until you can show a way to significantly increase income to 777 by making a change, one way or the other.   My best guess?  The entire thread is very interesting but completely theoretical until you can show 777 the money.   That would probably be a very hard thing to "prove" and so I expect things will probably remain as they are, irrespective of how good the debate might be.

 

TL;DR version - Economics trumps historical accuracy & MP balance.   Don't expect major changes without a very strong possibility of increased income to 777.

 

:icon_e_salute:


  • 0

#530 J5_Spyboy

J5_Spyboy
  • Posts: 557

Posted 06 July 2015 - 16:39

'TL;DR version - Economics trumps historical accuracy & MP balance.   Don't expect major changes without a very strong possibility of increased income to 777.'

Says it all... Live with what we have and stop complaining. :icon_e_salute: 


  • 0

#531 J99=Hardy

J99=Hardy
  • Posts: 899
  • LocationGermany

Posted 06 July 2015 - 16:41

...

 

TL;DR version - Economics trumps historical accuracy & MP balance.   Don't expect major changes without a very strong possibility of increased income to 777.

 

:icon_e_salute:

 

+1

 

Easy to undersatand and totally correct! You made my day, thanks!


  • 0

img_3834.png


#532 J2_Oelmann

J2_Oelmann
  • Posts: 292
  • LocationGermany

Posted 06 July 2015 - 16:55

The Albatros had no historical significance?
I thought that The Albatros was the workhorse of the Germans up to the end of the war. No? Which plane was more significant then?

Balance is a nice thing for call of Duty. Not for Rof.
Its the pilot skill that balances out the flaws of the plane.
  • 0

#533 J2_Trupobaw

J2_Trupobaw
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 4169
  • LocationKraków / Poland

Posted 06 July 2015 - 17:23

There were 413 unique pilot names entering missions on Wargrounds in June. 1300 more logged onto server, looked around  then went back to SP.

Bear in mind that MP players are minority of 777s users. They are core of this community, yes,but are outnumbered by people quietly flying career at home. 

http://stats.newwing...ort_by=-sorties

I've been looking onto the D.Va superiority stuff since it came out last winter, and can say it'is complete nonsense.

First, in last four months, I've been switching to previously unfamiliar Entente planes while lone wolfing, and flying German planes with my Staffel. I have learned quite a few things on this journey; HD1 is easily a match for Albatros when harnessed, I can down Albatros pilots while flying Camel just like Camel pilots keep downing me when I fly Albatros (OTOH Albie pilots kill me when I fly Camel just like I keep killing Camels in my Albie). S.E.5a can kill Albies or at least avoid death when flown right, and kill its pilot if flown stupid, you can indeed see things from inside of Spad cockpit, and I still have no idea how to use the Doplhin in turn fights the way Sid can. Of Albatros dominance, I've found no trace. It's a solid plane to fall back on.

Second, top pilots I know and used to associate with Albatroses - Gamecock, Brave Sir Robin, von Graff - did similar thing and switched to Spads in last months. They teamed up with Captain Teddy (on TS, gasp!) and are downing everything not on their side as effectively as ever. Mostly Albatroses.

Third, statistics. Camel was #1 plane on Wargrounds in June. Other four were Albatros D.Va, S.E.5.a, Spad 13 and Gotha. In the ranking of Wargrounds pilots with highest points score in June, only #10 has Albatros as plane that got him most points; first nine got their points on bombers or Entente planes. In ranking of pilots with highest kills number in June, the 14th pilot is first to have Albatros as plane that got him most kills; with exception of herby1960 and J30 Turner Voss in their DR.Is, all others of top 13 used Entente planes.

 

Albatros is flown a lot, but it's not pointsmaker or acemaker.

The multiplayer does change and adapt. If you have grudge with specific TS flying pilots, you can stop bringing Albatros into it.


  • 1

Forum moderator.

Deputy Staffelführer, Jasta 2 ''Boelcke'' http://jasta2.org

“Now now,” Akua chided. “Personal attacks are the mark of failed argument. If you’ve no counterpoint to offer, such flailing only serves to shed further light on your incompetence.”


#534 J99=Hardy

J99=Hardy
  • Posts: 899
  • LocationGermany

Posted 06 July 2015 - 19:22

Definitely +10

 

...
I've been looking onto the D.Va superiority stuff since it came out last winter, and can say it'is complete nonsense.

...

 

Thank you mate!

 

 

... you can indeed see things from inside of Spad cockpit,...

 

Could you please do me a favour and tell how do you mangae this?

 

 

...

 

Albatros is flown a lot, but it's not pointsmaker or acemaker.

...

 

You're so right, and I would like to know how much of the people out there share this opinion and how much don't.

And how much of them fly MP on a regular basis and how much don't.


  • 0

img_3834.png


#535 =FI=Bluebell

=FI=Bluebell
  • Posts: 24

Posted 06 July 2015 - 20:17

The only time the albie dominates (later years only) is when the 'J' squads are flying together as a squad, other than that its dead meat, flying singly especially.

 

Ardmore


  • 0

#536 FourSpeed

FourSpeed
  • Posts: 1775

Posted 06 July 2015 - 20:51

Third, statistics. Camel was #1 plane on Wargrounds in June. Other four were Albatros D.Va, S.E.5.a, Spad 13 and Gotha. In the ranking of Wargrounds pilots with highest points score in June, only #10 has Albatros as plane that got him most points; first nine got their points on bombers or Entente planes. In ranking of pilots with highest kills number in June, the 14th pilot is first to have Albatros as plane that got him most kills; with exception of herby1960 and J30 Turner Voss in their DR.Is, all others of top 13 used Entente planes.

 

Albatros is flown a lot, but it's not pointsmaker or acemaker.

The multiplayer does change and adapt. If you have grudge with specific TS flying pilots, you can stop bringing Albatros into it.

 

I'm not going to get into this argument too far, as I already posted statistics a couple months ago that were completely pooh-poohed.

 

As for kimmy's comment(s) that there aren't many new pilots or numbers of unique pilots, that's outright bunk, but that doesn't surprise me, given the source. In fact, total flight hours are up significantly (~75%) over last year's numbers, and as you point out there were several hundred pilots.

 

About your a/c statistcs.  In terms of "score", yes, the Camels were #1 -- there are several reasons for this (imho)

 

1> Camels also carry bombs - their GK numbers are typically about 30% higher (or more) than Albatros DVa numbers.  Bombing scores also count higher in stats.

 

2> Camels aren't free;  So, to fly 'em, you have to buy 'em.  In general this means that there is a higher percentage of fresh new(bie)  pilots flying Albatros DVa's than there are Camels.

 

3> We (at New Wings) have started reducing or removing DVa's from some of our maps (especially, early war ones), and we're starting to remove the limits on Camels and DR1s (on maps where they appear) making them more available to fly. It's too soon to see that effect (statisically), but I believe there is an effect.

 

4> Pilots are starting to adapt to the changed FM's as well, primarily by flying Spads, Se5. The Camel is the only Entente TnB plane in the top 10. In short, they're switching to BnZ tactics largely due to necessity.  Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it isn't.

 

In terms of straight-up sorties flown, the Albatros DVa has been the #1 plane flown (by a LARGE margin) since the FM changes. In actual fact, it has more than 4X the hours flown this June than June a year ago.

 

The Pfalz D3 has 1/2 the hours it had a year ago.

 

Spad 13 and SE5 hours are about 2X-3X last year's (largely to cope with the Albie changes imho).

 

I'm not in the "uber ace-maker Albatros" category of believers, but I do remain 100% certain that game balance was significantly skewed with those FM changes. 

 

Once again, we all have our opinions on whether that's a good thing or not. YMMV.

 

 

Regards,

4 :icon_e_salute:


  • 0

#537 J2_Oelmann

J2_Oelmann
  • Posts: 292
  • LocationGermany

Posted 06 July 2015 - 22:25

The Albatros being free does a lot for the statistics. Its easier to fly then a Spad (and easier to look out of the cockpit) or a N17.

Maybe it gets flown more (because its free) but its not dominating. 

The DR1 should be limted on most (or every) map in my eyes. It never saw the numbers the Albatros did.

 

I might be wrong, but the tendency towards more BnZ tactics is how the airwar developed. So it might be a sign, that the overall flight models are not that wrong.


  • 0

#538 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

1PL-Sahaj-1Esk
  • Posts: 940

Posted 06 July 2015 - 22:30

Realistic and objective point of view there FourSpeed, thank you.

 

I will return from my "summer leave" for a couple of days to look around on the RoF servers to check what happens out there ... this week.

 

S!


  • 0

kpt. pil. / Capt. Sahaj / Operations Officer / 1. Eskadra Mysliwska / 1. Pulk Lotniczy / http://www.1pl.boo.pl

bannerf11esks.png?raw=1

http://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com


#539 J2_Trupobaw

J2_Trupobaw
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 4169
  • LocationKraków / Poland

Posted 06 July 2015 - 22:37

I will return from my "summer leave" for a couple of days to look around on the RoF servers to check what happens out there ...

 

There go the Albies ;) .

The DR1 should be limted on most (or every) map in my eyes. It never saw the numbers the Albatros did.

 

Even if Wargrounds missions were intended to be *that* historically plausible... Dr.Is were assigned to Jagdgeschwederen. So if there were any Dr.I in the area at all, there were 2-4 Staffeln equipped with them. Jasta 5 and Joseph Jacobs' personal planes are two only cases of Dr.I being deployed in small numbers I can remember. 


  • 0

Forum moderator.

Deputy Staffelführer, Jasta 2 ''Boelcke'' http://jasta2.org

“Now now,” Akua chided. “Personal attacks are the mark of failed argument. If you’ve no counterpoint to offer, such flailing only serves to shed further light on your incompetence.”


#540 FourSpeed

FourSpeed
  • Posts: 1775

Posted 06 July 2015 - 23:10

The Albatros being free does a lot for the statistics. Its easier to fly then a Spad (and easier to look out of the cockpit) or a N17.

Maybe it gets flown more (because its free) but its not dominating. 

The DR1 should be limted on most (or every) map in my eyes. It never saw the numbers the Albatros did.

 

I might be wrong, but the tendency towards more BnZ tactics is how the airwar developed. So it might be a sign, that the overall flight models are not that wrong.

 

It's not due to them being free -- they were equally free in 2013 and 2014.   The 4X increase in flight hours is 100% due to the FM patch -- it's easily visible in the numbers (sortie counts and flight time).

 

 

Regards,

4 :icon_e_salute:


  • 0

#541 =CFC=Conky

=CFC=Conky
  • Posts: 158
  • LocationWhistler, BC

Posted 07 July 2015 - 02:03

Hello all,

 

These arguments are all very interesting although I think there is something that is being overlooked, namely the dynamic nature of the air war. There were times when German aircraft ruled (Bloody April), then the balanced shifted the other way as the Entente fielded better kites. In the case of RoF, the online situation is pretty static in that the plane sets don't change much and they are somewhat balanced from the start, a situation that goes on for a lot longer than it did irl. Realistically, one side's aircraft should dominate until the other side eventually comes up with a counter in the form of a better kite, then the cycle should begin again. SP campaigns generally do a better job of this than online servers. Nature of the beast I suppose.

 

It is a similar situation with BoS; online play has been going on for longer than the actual campaign, without a corresponding evolution of aircraft. The 109F4 fairly dominates whereas irl the VVS eventually fields better versions of the Yaks, LaGGs and La-5's, the balance eventually swinging the other way, at least when it comes to pure aircraft performance.

 

Good hunting,

CFC_Conky


  • 0

#542 J99=Hardy

J99=Hardy
  • Posts: 899
  • LocationGermany

Posted 07 July 2015 - 06:08

It's not due to them being free -- they were equally free in 2013 and 2014.   The 4X increase in flight hours is 100% due to the FM patch -- it's easily visible in the numbers (sortie counts and flight time).

 

 

Regards,

4 :icon_e_salute:

 

Since I blelive, that there are more pilots flying the D.Va and less the Pfalz D.IIIa after the infamous FM patch, I also believe for June this year you have to take the Free-To-Play on Steam effect into account.

 

However, I really like your objective observation - it prooves my feelings.

 

 

Hello all,

 

These arguments are all very interesting although I think there is something that is being overlooked, namely the dynamic nature of the air war. There were times when German aircraft ruled (Bloody April), then the balanced shifted the other way as the Entente fielded better kites. In the case of RoF, the online situation is pretty static in that the plane sets don't change much and they are somewhat balanced from the start, a situation that goes on for a lot longer than it did irl. Realistically, one side's aircraft should dominate until the other side eventually comes up with a counter in the form of a better kite, then the cycle should begin again. SP campaigns generally do a better job of this than online servers. Nature of the beast I suppose.

...

 

Ah, Chonky, that was right for WWI but we have a slightly different situation since a) some maps are build with planesets designed to maintain balance between sides rahter than reflecting the available aircraft during a certain period of war and B) very often (not to say most of the time) the ratio of pilots for each side is 1:1 or even more on Central which doesn't reflect the situation during WWI where Germans where heavily outnumbered by allies most of the time.

With a few exceptions (e.g. short period in 1916 after the Fokker Scourge) the allies domitated the skies because of the numbers of planes they were able to brin up into the air, not because of better aircraft or better pilots. Like Erich Hartmann (WWII Fighter Ace) once described: The rabbit is faster and could change direction much faster than a lone wolf, but the wolfpack will catch the rabbit sooner or later.

Look at this:

 

The only time the albie dominates (later years only) is when the 'J' squads are flying together as a squad, other than that its dead meat, flying singly especially.

...

 

But this works also the other way around - maybe we need some more "No." or "Esq" squads on MP to get more "balance"?


  • 0

img_3834.png


#543 =CFC=Conky

=CFC=Conky
  • Posts: 158
  • LocationWhistler, BC

Posted 07 July 2015 - 19:44

Hi J99=Hardy,

 

True enough and there is something else to consider, namely the pilot population online. There are likely far more experienced, accomplished pilots online than there were irl. During the war, there would be pilots who got shot down after just a couple of missions. Of those who survived their first 5~10 missions, the vast majority would be, for lack of a better term, 'journeymen' pilots, competent but not stellar and their tours would be over before they achieve ace-level proficiency. A very few would have whatever it takes to become aces.

 

How long has RoF been around and how long have some of the players been flying online? A good many would have spent more than enough time to become highly proficient, no matter what their initial aptitude for air combat. This makes it hard on the newer players, no matter what they're flying.

 

Personally, I fit in somewhere between the baby seal who gets clubbed on their first hop and the fair to middling journeyman pilot. That said, I certainly don't feel helpless when I fly Entente kites online; seeing an Albie, DR1 or DVII does not equal a death sentence unless I'm up against one of those long-time, very proficient players. No-icon servers means I don't know who I'm against until the fight starts, which suits me just fine  B) . 

 

Good hunting,

CFC_Conky


  • 0

#544 J99-Himmelhund

J99-Himmelhund
  • Posts: 491

Posted 08 July 2015 - 21:12

Apparently the Albatros-factory has moved (since the last patch) her production in Russian village smiths. In any case, that has to do nothing more with German worth work.

With every small load the engine starts spitting oil, or the wings break off. I will spend on a such mud work, in any case, no more money.

Thus please, let albatross again in Germany produce and forge the village smith his horseshoes. He can do this certainly much better.


  • 0

#545 J99_Bodo

J99_Bodo
  • Posts: 91

Posted 08 July 2015 - 21:38

I think "World of Warplanes" is historically meanwhile exactly as correctly as "Rise of Flight".

 

Isn´t it?

 

Did you know the Stabilator the Dr1 is still not fixed.


  • 0

#546 J2_Trupobaw

J2_Trupobaw
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 4169
  • LocationKraków / Poland

Posted 08 July 2015 - 22:43

 

But this works also the other way around - maybe we need some more "No." or "Esq" squads on MP to get more "balance"?

 

No, Jastas flying Entente colours are doing just fine.

With all these Entetne flights crewed by german squadrnons around, we may need to make fictional Entente skins with these cockardes as roundels ;) for them

ww1%20german%20mutze.jpg


  • 0

Forum moderator.

Deputy Staffelführer, Jasta 2 ''Boelcke'' http://jasta2.org

“Now now,” Akua chided. “Personal attacks are the mark of failed argument. If you’ve no counterpoint to offer, such flailing only serves to shed further light on your incompetence.”


#547 J99-Himmelhund

J99-Himmelhund
  • Posts: 491

Posted 09 July 2015 - 10:28

I think "World of Warplanes" is historically meanwhile exactly as correctly as "Rise of Flight".

 

Isn´t it?

 

Did you know the Stabilator the Dr1 is still not fixed.

 

Good graphic are just not everything!


  • 0


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users