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The Fokker Dr1 FM Revisited


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#81 ZachariasX

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 06:25

I am kind of slammed right now, but soon or later I'll install FSX and try the Dr.I. looking forward to it.

 

You should do it rather sooner than later. Fly the maneuvers as Chill is performing them in his videos. Then do the same with theRoF Dr.I. You will see that the top speed of the (RoF) plane is not its main issue. 

Personally, I think the RoF Dr.I is a good example of how accurate you can model a plane without having access to the real thing. I find 777 made a great job. But having the real thing at hand makes a lot of difference.

 

Again, try it.

 

:icon_e_salute: 

 

Z


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#82 SeaW0lf

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 07:20

Let's not bring flight models disputes to this topic. Chill is doing a great service and he should work in peace. All I can say is that I clarified all my doubts with him before my open letter. This should be enough.

 

Won't comment any further. 


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#83 adler58

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 21:58

Husar, I didn't touch the FFB on it because I too find it to be extremely aggravating on ALL FSX aircraft.  I have a MS FF2 joystick as well and find the game much more enjoyable without FFB on...I will look into it though as there are a bunch of parameters to work with regarding FFB.  For the time being, I recommend you disable FFB.

Hi Chill,

I am a newcomer here in ROF world (but a "veteran" in FSX/P3D) and just want to say a big THANK YOU for your fine work on the Dr.I dynamics :)

Only one issue: I confirm the one reported above by Zacharias: when starting, the plane is "stuck" to the runway, even at full throttle and rpm it barely creeps across the runway.

 

About Force Feedback, I have got an old but good MS FF2 Sidewinder, and am loving the way forces are rendered in ROF.

On P3D/FSX, i purchased a payware addon called FSForce2, which I find is also quite good.


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#84 ZachariasX

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 09:37

Let's not bring flight models disputes to this topic. Chill is doing a great service and he should work in peace. All I can say is that I clarified all my doubts with him before my open letter. This should be enough.

 

Not disputing, comparing and discussing. I just take them as they are. Please refrain from thinking that everybody is like you are.

 

 


Won't comment any further. 

 

Much appreciated.


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#85 SeaW0lf

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 03:20

Hi guys, I bought FSX Steam edition and installed it. Really excited about it, but I am having trouble to install the Dr.I.

 

Reading your instructions Chill, I copied the files into the folder of an aircraft, but it asked me to replace the original "aircraft" file. Does it mean that I have to replace one of the planes for the Dr.I? Can I have all of them plus the Dr.I? Even though I replaced the file but the plane that loads in the mission is the original one, not the Dr.I.

 

My other doubt regards the NeoQB Dr.I. How do I add it to your FM? It has some files and a folder with a setup.exe. Do I have to install the files and the folder in an specific folder?

 

I did some research, but it seems that all tutorials are about planes ready for FSX, with a whole folder that you just copy and paste into the Airplanes directory, not loose files from different sources.

 

I kind of got lost, I appreciate any help if possible.


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#86 Chill31

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 19:40

Cool, I'm glad you are giving it a go.  First, make a backup copy of whatever plane you intend to copy the files into. Then, unzip both files to your desktop.  Then drag and drop them to the Extra 300 aircraft folder (if you are not using the NeoQB Dr1).  When it asks you to overwrite the files, say yes. 

 

It should work at that point.

 

If you want to use the NeoQB Dr1, download it, and install it.  I don't have steam FSX, so you will want to make sure it is installing to the correct location.  Worst case, just make a folder on your desktop and tell it to install there.  Then copy the contents of that folder to the aircraft folder in the FSX folder.

 

I will go double check my instructions, but I think that is how I did it.


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#87 SeaW0lf

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 23:02

Cool, I'm glad you are giving it a go.  First, make a backup copy of whatever plane you intend to copy the files into. Then, unzip both files to your desktop.  Then drag and drop them to the Extra 300 aircraft folder (if you are not using the NeoQB Dr1).  When it asks you to overwrite the files, say yes. 

 

It should work at that point.

 

If you want to use the NeoQB Dr1, download it, and install it.  I don't have steam FSX, so you will want to make sure it is installing to the correct location.  Worst case, just make a folder on your desktop and tell it to install there.  Then copy the contents of that folder to the aircraft folder in the FSX folder.

 

I will go double check my instructions, but I think that is how I did it.

 

Cool, thanks for the input. I might try it tonight if I have time. But when you say the NeoQB Dr1 you mean the rendered plane or the FM? What I understood is that you used the NeoQB Dr1 as a plane model, not the flight model.

 

The NeoQB Dr1 FM does not interest me much. Only perhaps to have a feel of the old ROF Dr.I.


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#88 Chill31

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 17:53

Yeah the 3d model. You have to "install" it all first, then copy over with the 2 files posted
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#89 SeaW0lf

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 18:16

Yeah the 3d model. You have to "install" it all first, then copy over with the 2 files posted

 

Cool. I'll try that as soon as I have some time. Thanks again Chill.


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#90 SeaW0lf

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 07:45

So Chill, I finally got it! Have been flying since yesterday, but just today I was able to get the setup right and the controls. I still have some control glitches, but I am flying normally. 
 
First of all, God bless you! It is such a pleasure to get into a real Dr.I again! You have no idea what that means for a Dr.I enthusiast! Heh, you might know :) Not only that, knowing that you have a Dr.I replica and that it was you who did it makes it a pleasure to fly as well. It is one more element of immersion.
 
Talking about immersion, the round world of FSX is mind blowing. I had no idea. I did a few flights to 3.000m and it is amazing. FSX is not so shabby in the graphics department either, with very nice scenery if you go above 1.000m. At 3.000m, it is just gorgeous, open space, really nice clouds and atmospheric options. So it is really a pleasure. I am getting some motion sickness but I am going to research why that is. But I did several flights so far and it is getting better.
 
Regarding the flight model:
 
Like I said, such a pleasure to fly a Dr.I with true power again.
 
Very nice responses and way better feeling of flight. Going back and forward from ROF and FSX, yours does not have the stiffness of ROF, which the latter in a way fly on rails. The wobbling effect helps to give immersion, but in FSX you have a way better feeling. But I always felt some planes a bit too stiff in ROF. I don't know if yours flight handling have to do with FSX engine or your FM. Anyway, mixed with the knowledge that you put your real life feedback into it, it was really a refreshing feel.
 
Aerobatics: most of my usual moves in ROF changed the control actions in some way, but it was a no brainer. In a few tries I was doing everything I do in ROF. Maybe not everything, only in a mock fight I would be able to affirm (I am an intuitive flier; I can't explain in technical terms what I do). What I feel is that the plane feels more real, out of the rails and more responsive. I can't tell if it is more maneuverable or not in terms of turn radius and such, (wasn't focused on that), but it is lighter on the stick and I sense it has more accurate flying characteristics. 
 
Again, I can feel the power difference. It is sooooo god to fly the real thing...  :icon_e_smile:
 
I did not feel any setback in terms of energy retention. Kind of hard to tell about dogfights /aerobatics without a mock fight, but I did some tests at the end of the night and it seems to have more momentum than the current ROF Dr.I. I would say nothing less than the same energy in dives and climbs. I take them to 240km/h, reach the sea level and climb, and they both reach around 200/220m. But yours seems to get past 250m depending on the run. The engine has more power, torque, and it is not so shabby as the ROF Dr.I, which currently loses energy like a drain. I also did climbs from level flight, and yours has more torque, reaching some 30m more than the ROF Dr.I. I can feel that the last meters are driven by the engine, not the energy. But this is a very intuitive test and I was not too worried about precision. Not conclusive, but at least it gave the idea, at least to me, that there was no loss in energy, perhaps a gain. In a dive, yours seems to reach 240km/h if not the same a bit faster than the ROF Dr.I. 
 
The only question is the torque. I can feel it, but it is milder than ROF and I also can turn left without using the rudder. This is possible in ROF too, but it kind of goes in leaps and bounces in ROF. I imagine that in both cases (ROF and FSX) it would be impossible to turn left with a Dr.I without using rudder, right? I don't know. I am also not sure how the torque would affect aerobatics. I am flying with the Dr1v2.0 version. 
 
Other than that, I just need time to get used to it. Maybe I will research a bit of the Dr.I flying particulars to test then in flight. I didn't test the snap roll. I'll try tomorrow. I did not pay much attention if there is any dead zone in the flight model, with anomalies, especially because I am not a real life pilot, but I'll keep that in mind in the next flights to give you any feedback.
 
Anyway, two thumbs up. It feels better in flight and the different handling is interesting enough, if not captivating. Well, you can tell that I am enjoying my rides with it! 
 
Who knows, we could mock fight among some pilots online. I am not sure it there are servers available and how that would work. It is just a thought, but would be great to have the option. Isn't there a Camel and an Albatros version for FSX?
 
Well, thanks again for the amazing work Chill. Much appreciated, really. I was flying these days and looking at the rotary planes that I used to fly and say "meh". Your Dr.I made me regain the old heart. 
 
Thoroughbred Dreidecker again... Whenever I miss this feeling I will take your Dr.I for a ride, and FSX surprised me.
 
Ah, almost forgot. Here is a FSX take from my city, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Fokker making history in the tropics  :icon_e_smile:  :icon_e_biggrin:
 
Dr1_Rio_de-Janeiro_zpsrqkbsuql.jpg
 
Cheers mate!
 
I also did an installation tutorial. It may help who is trying to install it for the first time. Feel free to use it or edit further. If you see something wrong, please let me know and I will edit it. I am only going to post the version with the Dr.I skin. 
 
How to install Chill's Fokker Dr.I for FSX.
 
Have in hands Chill's zip folder (check the latest version in this topic) and Neoqb_Dr1 zip folder. To get the latter, Google it and download. 
 
First part:
 
Unzip Neoqb_Dr1
Go to Neoqb_Dr1 / NeoQB_ Fokker_Dr1 and click on 'setup'
Follow the instructions and create an empty folder anywhere in your computer to install it. 
After installing it, go to the folder SimObjects / Airplanes / Dr1. You are going to see this:
 
Neoqb_Dr1-files_zpsatiyckpw.jpg
 
This is exactly how an airplane folder looks in FSX.
 
Second part:
 
Go in your FSX folder / steamapps (I have the Steam version) / common / FSX / SimObjects / Airplanes and copy the whole folder of the airplane 'Extra300'. Paste it somewhere in your computer to have a backup of the original plane in case you want to fly it later on.
 
Third part:
 
Go back to Neoqb_Dr1 folder / SimObjects / Airplanes / Dr1 and copy all the files / folders  listed in the picture above. Then go to the 'Extra300' folder in FSX, delete all the original content inside the folder (empty the folder) and paste the files / folders from Neoqb.
 
Fourth part: 
 
Go in Chill's Dr1v2.0 folder, copy the two files and paste in the same 'Extra300' folder to override / replace the Neoqb FM.
 
This way you are going to fly with a 3D Fokker Dr.I model (from Neoqb) but with Chill's FM. 
 
Click 'free flight' and you are going to see the Dr.I skin available for a flight.

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#91 SeaW0lf

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 08:14

I forgot to ask. I used Neoqb files as the base to paste your files. Is there a better option? Sound or any other feature that is better than the one from Neoqb?


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#92 ZachariasX

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 09:56

I forgot to ask. I used Neoqb files as the base to paste your files. Is there a better option? Sound or any other feature that is better than the one from Neoqb?

 

Try something like REX weather textures plus a decent weather engine like ASN or FS Global real weather. You'd rather Alt-F4 than using stock weather again. Ever. 

 

But thanks for your impression on Chlills Dr.I FM. It's a beatiful plane indeed and nice to fly. 


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#93 SeaW0lf

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 17:40

Try something like REX weather textures plus a decent weather engine like ASN or FS Global real weather. You'd rather Alt-F4 than using stock weather again. Ever. 

 

But thanks for your impression on Chlills Dr.I FM. It's a beatiful plane indeed and nice to fly. 

 

Cool, I will try them for sure! Thanks for the tip.


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#94 Chill31

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 21:08

SeaWolf,  Make sure that you go into the settings and turn the flight model settings up to max.  Everything in there needs to be maxed out with no assistance boxes checked.  If it isn't maxed out, it gives a simplified FM. 

 

Thanks for making the install tutorial btw.  I will try to put it up on the original post if that's ok with you?


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#95 SeaW0lf

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 22:04

Sure Chill, feel free to use / edit the tutorial as you like. Next time that I take the plane for a ride I'll check the settings.

 

Cheers!


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#96 Chill31

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 23:17

So I'm in the process of purchasing an 80hp LeRhone rotary for my Fokker Dr1...Its  a restoration project, so it will be some time before its flying on the airplane, but hey, gotta start somewhere!


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#97 Tycoon

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 01:30

That's cool, is that the type of engine that would have been on an original?

 

Btw those are pretty expensive aren't they?


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#98 J2_Adam

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 02:01

That's cool, is that the type of engine that would have been on an original?

 

Btw those are pretty expensive aren't they?

 

 

No. They had a 110 hp Oberusal.


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#99 Chill31

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 04:31

That's cool, is that the type of engine that would have been on an original?

 

Btw those are pretty expensive aren't they?

The original had the 110 Oberursel which is a very close copy of a 110 LeRhone, both of which are exceedingly rare.  And yeah, for what you get, these are relatively expensive engines, but that's why I'll never own a brand new car I guess. 


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#100 mikschi

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 01:22

Automated Smoke Effects for the Fokker DR.1 by NeoQB
 
After seeing all the effort going on to modulate the flight dynamics of this awesome bird I have to say: Thank you guys! She is a pleasure to fly now. After installing v.2 of chills flight dynamics she is not to compare with what you find with the original flight dynamics, which simply feel not right. This should not be taken as an offense by NeoQB as the 3D model and the cockpit are pieces of art. 
 
As I believe that most of the vintage birds get more vintage feeling when showing smoke effects I decided to play around with some effects on this one. These work with an automatic smokesystem which is controlled by the invisible beech 18 gauge, which has been completly modified by me. It is automatically working with input from the throttle leveler but also related to the airspeed. For those in fear that this might be a framerate-killer let me say it should be FPS-friendly as my low-end system keeps working pretty smooth.
 
I have to state that I am not too happy with the appearance of some off the effects, as I have seen real-life footage of that bird and although it is smoking, the effects in this package are "a slight" overkill, but I am not experienced in changing the values of effects at all. So maybe there is someone who could change them for a better appearance. My thoughts about the effects and what they should look like can be found in the ReadMe-File. 
 
In the underlying ZIP-File you will find everthing to get the effects working. Please follow the instructions in the ReadMe-File. I also added a description below the ReadMe-Text, to explain how the effects are generated and triggered, so even unexperienced FSX-Users should be able to create custom-effects now.
 
Of course feel free to change the effects to your personal needs.
 
It took me two nights to get this setup running. I share it because it might also add even more fun to this plane for others. Further, if you know how to do, it can be transformed to add any kind of smoke or other effect to any plane at any position related to any event (not only throttle leveler position, but also airspeed, certain altitude, etc.).
 
As always,  if you do not like the effects in this package, please remove the effects by using your backups. Otherwise I wish you some good fun ;-)
 
Best,
Christoph

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#101 mikschi

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 02:39

At lest one screenshot below

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#102 =HillBilly=

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 03:12

Just one question, why would the DR1 be puffing out black smoke?


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#103 unreasonable

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 04:55

It is a replica with a diesel engine? ;)


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#104 =HillBilly=

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 05:28

It is a replica with a diesel engine? ;)

Wow I didn't know Cummins made rotary engines. :icon_lol:


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#105 mikschi

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:45

I just tried to make an effect file which can be taken to remodel any aircraft out there. Remove all the fx_smoke_f6 entries in the aircraft.cfg and the beech_smoke.xml, respectively and it is smoking white only.

 

Aloha


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#106 Panthercules

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 16:43

Interesting work here, but I am curious as to the purpose - is it that you're unsatisfied with the game's implementation of the exhaust smoke effect, or that you're going for acrobatic smoke generator effects, or something else?


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#107 =HillBilly=

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 16:46

Interesting work here, but I am curious as to the purpose - is it that you're unsatisfied with the game's implementation of the exhaust smoke effect, or that you're going for acrobatic smoke generator effects, or something else?

Lol     Red White and Blue smoke,why not? ;)


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#108 Panthercules

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 16:52

Lol     Red White and Blue smoke,why not? ;)

 

Well, they added acrobatic smoke effects for BoS/BoM so indeed, why not?  Might be good if anybody resurrects the old MP racing servers/missions that seemed to be pretty popular a few years ago.


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#109 mikschi

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 17:43

Black- and White-Version of the Smokesystem

 

both show minor changes to the original post

 

v1:

  • with minor changes to the smoke effect fx-smoke-crop to match the other smokes, but still with black smokes on
  • 3 new files: ReadMe with necessary smokesystem entry, fx_smoke_crop.fx, beech_smoke.xml

 

v2:

  • with minor changes to the smoke effect fx-smoke-crop to match the other smokes, with black smokes off
  • 3 new files: ReadMe with necessary smokesystem entry, fx_smoke_crop.fx, beech_smoke.xml

 

I also updated the two readme's, for the according instructions, which was a lot of work again. I will leave that project at this point and fly her, while going on with editing my faster warbirds

 

Hope you like the effects, otherwise I suggest to follow the Guide in the Readme to adjust to your own convenience :-)

 

Best,

Christoph

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#110 mikschi

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 18:04

Interesting work here, but I am curious as to the purpose -

 

  1. is it that you're unsatisfied with the game's implementation of the exhaust smoke effect,
  2. or that you're going for acrobatic smoke generator effects,
  3. or something else?

 

1. that is exactly the case, it is rather vintage to have a 0 or 1 solution only.

2. this was not the intention :-)

3. Yes I would like to have more effects available out there, without having to pay for addons.


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#111 J2_Adam

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 21:06

Lol     Red White and Blue smoke,why not? ;)

 

 

Or how about Red, white and black smoke in keeping with the colours of the Flag of the North German Federation that was used from the late 1800's into 1918?


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#112 Chill31

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 12:58

I just noticed this topic was alive again...I haven't been on ROF in a while with moving and new job etc.  I did get my Dr1 back flying however!  Some engine issues finally resloved, and now it is becoming more enjoyable to fly!  

 

Regarding the FM in this thread, I never did finish it 100%, but it is far and away more realistic than the original NeoQB or the current ROF model.  I sure would like it if they would let us mod this game so I could give a 90% real example of flying a Dr1.  

 

I find the greatest challenge is "checking six" without ending up in a massive side slip.  In turning my body to see behind, I inevitably push the rudder bar or change elevator pressure which sends my plane into some new flying attitude.  I have encountered a few other planes while patrolling, and it is a really cool experience to imagine how a fight started in WWI.  Seeing another plane off in the distance, maybe only 5 miles away, and closing at relatively slow speeds.  With all of the wind buffet around my face and goggles, my visual acuity is not as good as when I am flying a plane with a windscreen. 

 

Perhaps I will be back flying ROF in a few months as I get the house unpacked!


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#113 Surfimp

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 14:15

I've enjoyed reading this thread. Thank you for taking the time to try to match up our sim with reality!


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#114 J2_Adam

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 19:20

Excellent! Nice to have you back, Chill! I recently looked at your YouTube channel to see if you have done anything else BTW
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#115 Chill31

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 21:48

As soon as I unpack the go pro and finish breaking in the motor, I will get some new videos up. Perhaps some play dogfighting.
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#116 Ice_Age

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 22:08

 

 

I find the greatest challenge is "checking six" without ending up in a massive side slip.  In turning my body to see behind, I inevitably push the rudder bar or change elevator pressure which sends my plane into some new flying attitude.

 

I seem to recall reading that this was probably how John Denver ended up crashing and dying.  I believe he had to reach around behind his shoulder to switch fuel tanks, and it was surmised that he kicked in rudder while doing so.


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#117 Tycoon

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 23:55

  Seeing another plane off in the distance, maybe only 5 miles away,  

Only?  :icon_e_biggrin:  You destroyed some people's world here with that statement.  B)


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#118 Chill31

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 03:24

Only? :icon_e_biggrin: You destroyed some people's world here with that statement. B)


Why is that? That 5 miles is a long way or not very far?
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#119 =HillBilly=

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 03:43

Why is that? That 5 miles is a long way or not very far?

It's a long way to spot aircraft. A plane the size of a 747 is visible at that distance but VERY small.


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#120 Panthercules

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 04:33

Why is that? That 5 miles is a long way or not very far?

 

 

 

It's a long way to spot aircraft. A plane the size of a 747 is visible at that distance but VERY small.

 

5 miles is a bit less than 10km, yet there's a whole long discussion going on over on the BoS/BoM forums about how even a 10km view/rendering distance isn't nearly good enough:

 

https://forum.il2stu...nce#entry292593

 

Seems to be a wide disparity of opinion about how far one should be able to spot aircraft.


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