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D.Va stats... anyone else see a problem


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#401 gavagai

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 18:58

Or Camel pilots have finally adjusted their tactics.

 

P.S. MVR never flew the Albatros D.Va.


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#402 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 19:00

 

Take your own advice

 

 

I don't remember giving that advice.  In any case, it looks like it took some time for both sides to respond to the new FMs.  By February the Germans figured it out.  Now the Camel jockeys have countered.  In any case, it is hardly the slaughter that Grahamshere, and others, have claimed.


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#403 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 19:12

[edited]

 

 

Yes I know I suck at this game but I take it like a man and stick around for more hopeing one day C1 fixes this mess. Which I doubt as it,s not thier baby they just run the show.

 

Hellbender theres probably less camel v alb is because they nutered the camel so much and there just isnt as many avaliabe on the maps, the camel can out turn the alb but in the cost of altatude, dva just needs to keep circleing above till they can pounce and give of a round and the camel is done.  GrahamshereGT  YO GT's


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#404 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 19:39

Whether or not anyone likes me does not change the fact that the Camel is killing D.Va's at a 2-1 ratio this month.


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#405 closed_accont

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 21:09

I agree Camel can beat DVa on head to head on even conditions for sure, if the DVa pilot is smart, he will try to get alt advantage to engage, them DVa can keep himself out of range as Graham said, with some time finish the Camel or if something get wrong, run is always easy.

the question is to face DVa now entente need Camel, and it is rare on maps and when is available no rare is on limited numbers... DVa is 80%maps free available.

some advantage to DVa teamwork against Camel teamwork, because they can chose when engage and desengage at will, but entente always can use some SPADS/SE4a to equal conditions, but entente need Camel... no more multi-task plane for entente.

for me the reason we have more teamwork on central side is because the central multi-task planes, is far more difficult do it as a entente especialized planes you have to use multi types and organize some pilot tasks to grant success.

for central just bring some good pilots, run together, stay together, cover tails (only real skill here) and run together.
and we have some real good pilots doing that, nothing so special when they stay alone they bleed like anyone else.

 

1 dolar bet on table how we get some profiles posting  here those are truth the same person!


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#406 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 21:21

the question is to face DVa now entente need Camel, and it is rare on maps and when is available no rare is on limited numbers... DVa is 80%maps free available.

 

 

I never fly the Camel when I'm on the Entente side.  Fly the Spad.  It kicks ass if flown properly.


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#407 closed_accont

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 21:33

I never fly the Camel when I'm on the Entente side.  Fly the Spad.  It kicks ass if flown properly.

 

I agree I did some good on that too already, but against a group of DVa/DVIIF you have to be carefull or stay out.

 

I like to fly every plane I got, less DVa now because I feel like cheating (against pups, N11)


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#408 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 22:23

I agree I did some good on that too already, but against a group of DVa/DVIIF you have to be carefull or stay out.

 

I like to fly every plane I got, less DVa now because I feel like cheating (against pups, N11)

 

Odd that you didn't have a problem flying the Camel when that was basically the same sort of cheating.


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#409 =HillBilly=

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 22:38

I guess the only solution to the DVa problem is to remove it from all multiplayer maps along with the Fokker DVII&DVIIf , O hell just have the Fokker EIII only in the maps that should stop all this stupid whining.   


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#410 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 00:11

wasnt there a dr1 that would counter the camel. And from what I can see hill billy the only whining is come frome the alb lovers, dont want to take your advantage away and make it fair, like I said this is a game not real life and if you think it should be closer to real life then they should only give you one life to live permap, see how fast this game loses evey one.Guess you just dont get do you,


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#411 Panthercules

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 02:33

Guys - this is getting depressing.  I tried to clean up a lot of the recent crap, so if you don't see some of your recent posts, don't be surprised.  

 

I think some debate about the relative merits of the latest FM changes and how the MP community might want or be able to change things about their missions or server plane type mixes or whatever to achieve a more interesting and fun MP experience should be a good thing for the game and the Community, but this constant descent into personal attacks, whining and bickering isn't doing anybody any good and really needs to stop.  If people can't resist then it seems this thread has run its course and will need to get locked up.

 

I don't play much MP and don't have any significant time in either the Camel or the D.Va, so I don't really have any personal opinion about what the devs did to the FMs with the recent patch, other than to say that I'm glad they finally did something and from what I've seen so far from the discussions I suspect that they did more good than harm, but I know that's debatable and I know they did not achieve anything like perfection or a result that everybody will be happy about.

 

I know statistics from the MP servers can be influenced by a number of extraneous factors and are subject to a number of different interpretations, so I certainly would not say that they necessarily "prove" anything in this debate.  However, I was intrigued by the following exchange above:

 

 

 

Nice rant, Grahamshere.  Here is how the Camel is matching up against the D.Va in Wargrounds this month:

 

Opponent                  Albatros D.Va - won    Albatros D.Va - lost     WL
Sopwith Camel                                     76                              154     0.5
 
A kill ratio of 2-1 isn't good enough for you?

 

 

 

Take your own advice, do not judge stats over the period of a single month, lest we compare you to a 5-year-old.

 

For February:

 

Opponent                  Albatros D.Va - won    Albatros D.Va - lost     WL

 

Sopwith Camel                                    172                              173     1.0
 
 
For January:
 
Opponent                  Albatros D.Va - won    Albatros D.Va - lost     WL
Sopwith Camel                                    180                              236     0.8
 
 
The only trend I can see is that there are less and less Camel vs. D.Va fights, nothing more. 

 

 

I won't try to say those numbers establish any meaningful "trend", but it does seem to me that those numbers, taken over a 3 month period, certainly do not seem to indicate that the recent FM changes to the Camel and D.Va created any sort of horribly nerfed Camel or uber D.Va.  I don't know if those numbers above are representative of what is going on across the board in RoF MP generally, but unless there's some reason to believe that the numbers from other RoF MP servers are incredibly skewed in the other direction (i.e., showing the D.Va dominating the Camel by huge margins), it's hard for me to understand claims by folks that these FM changes have drastically de-stablized the game or ruined the balance between Central and Entente.  Is there some MP data showing that the D.Va is maybe dominating other similar-period Entente plane types besides Camels by big margins, or something else that seems to support claims that the D.Va has become some sort of inappropriately super-plane?


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#412 Manny_Pfalz

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 02:45

This doesn't mean the flight model is off, there is other planes in ROF that is easy to fly too.

Such as...?


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#413 gavagai

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 02:55

The Spad 13 also has a K/D greater than 1 against the new DVa, and that is no surprise.


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#414 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 02:57

Panth maybe you need to come in and see for your self, and not as panthercules. when you see the rocket shoot streight up and shoot from far and steight as an arrow then whip past a camel or any other entente plane other than the spad, which is agreat plane , awsome fast as hell, and we can run from the alb as fast as we can but not its bullits. and as far as I know the scoring is all messed up so how can you by that. come and you will see the central is alwasy leading in the score board and they all fly the alb. and its not because they are more organised . if thats the case take out the alb and see what happens.

 
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#415 =HillBilly=

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:14

 

 take out the alb and see what happens.

 

 

why don't you learn to fly better, I fly both the DVa and N28 and get kills with both,and neither is a SUPER PLANE.


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#416 Panthercules

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:33

 

Panth maybe you need to come in and see for your self, and not as panthercules. when you see the rocket shoot streight up and shoot from far and steight as an arrow then whip past a camel or any other entente plane other than the spad, which is agreat plane , awsome fast as hell, and we can run from the alb as fast as we can but not its bullits. and as far as I know the scoring is all messed up so how can you by that. come and you will see the central is alwasy leading in the score board and they all fly the alb. and its not because they are more organised . if thats the case take out the alb and see what happens.

 

 

 

Well, maybe I will, but I'll have to figure out how to come in without skewing the statistics (I am so bad at MP that if I fly the D.Va I'll just make its K/D ratio look worse, and the same for the Camel if I fly it   :)  )

 

Prime example of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle at work, I guess   (well, technically the observer effect, but that doesn't have a cool name :)  ) 

 

 Maybe I'll just have to figure out a way to spectate so I can observe without distorting the results.  


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#417 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:38

hill billy little diferent flying with icons compare to full 


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#418 Hellbender

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 08:11

I won't try to say those numbers establish any meaningful "trend", but it does seem to me that those numbers, taken over a 3 month period, certainly do not seem to indicate that the recent FM changes to the Camel and D.Va created any sort of horribly nerfed Camel or uber D.Va.  I don't know if those numbers above are representative of what is going on across the board in RoF MP generally, but unless there's some reason to believe that the numbers from other RoF MP servers are incredibly skewed in the other direction (i.e., showing the D.Va dominating the Camel by huge margins), it's hard for me to understand claims by folks that these FM changes have drastically de-stablized the game or ruined the balance between Central and Entente.  Is there some MP data showing that the D.Va is maybe dominating other similar-period Entente plane types besides Camels by big margins, or something else that seems to support claims that the D.Va has become some sort of inappropriately super-plane?

 

Panthercules,

 

I would never claim that the D.Va is a super-plane, but I will say this:

 

  • A good D.Va pilot can fly the plane to its many strengths (good speed, good climb, good firepower, decently rugged, can outrun everything it can't outturn and outturn everything that it can't outrun)
     
  • A bad D.Va pilot will not be easily punished by its few weaknesses found on many other planes (no difficult stall characteristics, easy to turn with using little rudder input)

 

This means that everyone, experienced or not, on a good day, can do pretty well in the D.Va.

 

And everyone, experienced or not, on a bad day will not do too bad either.

 

 

 

Compare this to the Camel and the Dr.I

 

  • A good Camel/Dr.I pilot can fly the plane to its extreme strength (turns, turns, turns like there's no tomorrow)
     
  • A bad Camel/Dr.I pilot will inevitably kill himself due to its extreme weakness (very easy to enter an accelerated stall for someone who doesn't know how to correctly and continuously deal with proper rudder and elevator input)

 

Again, good pilots on a good day: unparalleled in the Camel and Dr.I.

 

Good pilots on a bad day (and bad pilots any day): R.I.P.

 

 

 

It simply leads to a scenario of choosing the path of least resistance.

 

When you're in the heat of a dogfight, forcing the enemy to make a mistake is so much easier in a D.Va, no questions asked.

 

If you're experienced enough not to make mistakes anymore in the Camel and Dr.I (think pilots like Sahaj, Peter_Zvan, Austin...), then there's really no reason to pick the D.Va.

 

I'd love to say that this is fine, having an "easy dogfighter" available to new pilots, but that is not how history remembers the Albatros, no matter what the apologists in this thread say. If anything, it's how the Fokker D.VII or Siemens-Schuckert D.III is described.

 

 

 

That said, the SPAD XIII is close to the D.Va in overall effectiveness. It's easy to handle, rugged, climbs very well and it's very, very fast. 

 

It does, however, require good understanding of Boom 'n Zoom, a much more technical dogfighting doctrine than Turn 'n Burn.

 

 

 

Overall, if it's about staying alive in a long lasting campaign, there's no better place to be than the SPAD XIII.

 

If it's about scoring a few easy kills on a weeknight, no better place to be than the D.Va.

 

 

 

P.S. A lot of it boils down to how RoF handles the MP kills. If you'd be awarded a kill for every enemy which you force down to land (even if he turns off his engine to "deny the kill"), the SPAD would be the top scoring dog around. But in reality, the only tactic that really pays off in terms of score is sitting on your enemies six and sawing his wings off Hollywood style.


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#419 gavagai

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 11:24

I'd love to say that this is fine, having an "easy dogfighter" available to new pilots, but that is not how history remembers the Albatros, no matter what the apologists in this thread say. If anything, it's how the Fokker D.VII or Siemens-Schuckert D.III is described.

 

And we're back to this point again. ;)

 

Bender, I think you have 90% on your side in agreeing that the new D.Va is not exactly what we had in mind with FM adjustments.  I pointed that out only a few days after the adjustments were released.

 

But now we're in the unfortunate position of having it look like we got what we wanted, even if we did not.

 

To my mind, the best course now is to see the Albatros D.III used on as many multiplayer maps as possible instead of the D.Va.  After all, it is an OAW D.III, so it is more of a contemporary of the D.Va than its predecessor.


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#420 =HillBilly=

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 12:57

hill billy little diferent flying with icons compare to full 

Yes it is, it is easier to bounce someone in FULL REAL servers. 


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#421 J2_VonGraff

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 13:07

why don't you learn to fly better, I fly both the DVa and N28 and get kills with both,and neither is a SUPER PLANE"

 

As hesitant as I am to only briefly wade back into this bitter mire that seems to attract both those who have some real interest in discussing FM's intelligently, as well as the trolls who simply miss their old unrealistic advantages and petulanlty demand them be returned, the above statement by Hillbilly rings true. Learn different planes and new tactics, its a good thing, and is an indicator that the plane tiering that has developed is much closer to accurate than before. 

 

hill billy little diferent flying with icons compare to full

 

And in response to this statement, I have been learning to fly the N-28 all over again...Wargrounds....full real....no icons. You might note I happen to currently be the highest scorer in this plane for the month of March. And most of these kills were flying as a lone wolf. I'm finding the N-28 very capable....you just need to take the time to learn it and fly it to its advantages, as with all of these machines.

 

And finally I was pleased to have gotten into a wonderful dogfight the other day, me in an Albatros Dva, and I believe it was Gus-GT in a Camel behind their lines. If I recall correctly I bounced him early and got some shots in, which caused a fuel leak. We proceeded to have a close to 5 minute duel in these machines, with varying tactics and maneuvers. I tried to disengage once, but he shot me a bit (some damge but not major) and expended his ammo. I turned back and we parried and thrusted for some time, although I knew he was out of ammo, he flew so well I could never get a "meat shot" on him and always either missed, or could only manage hits on his outer wing tips. A great fencing duel to the very last! And I salute him again "S!" for his skill. Long story short, these two planes are very well matched now, much more historically than previously, although perhaps not perfect...and if his pals had showed up....I woulda been toast. I secured the victory and was able to disengage and run home due to the fact he finally ran out of gas from the fuel leak, but if it weren't for this intitial stroke of luck in leaking him in my first attack, it would've been a complete draw. And if he hadn't used up his ammo early...he would've downed/or injured me enough to force me to withdraw from that turning fight which the Alby can't maintain vs. the Camel. Great fight, and indicative that things are much closer to the way they should be. The venom I see exhibited however in some of these posts seems odd though, and makes one wonder if a desire for historical accuracy is really at it's heart.

 

V-Graff


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#422 =HillBilly=

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 13:14

V-Graff Salute! and thank you for trying to insert some reason into a unreasonable thread.


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#423 J2_VonGraff

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 13:23

:icon_e_salute:

 

V-Graff


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#424 Hellbender

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 14:04

As hesitant as I am to only briefly wade back into this bitter mire that seems to attract both those who have some real interest in discussing FM's intelligently, as well as the trolls who simply miss their old unrealistic advantages and petulanlty demand them be returned, the above statement by Hillbilly rings true. Learn different planes and new tactics, its a good thing, and is an indicator that the plane tiering that has developed is much closer to accurate than before. 

 

And in response to this statement, I have been learning to fly the N-28 all over again...Wargrounds....full real....no icons. You might note I happen to currently be the highest scorer in this plane for the month of March. And most of these kills were flying as a lone wolf. I'm finding the N-28 very capable....you just need to take the time to learn it and fly it to its advantages, as with all of these machines.

 

(highlit statements in blue on which I'd like to react)

 

I'm happy that you're finding the N28 in RoF a very capable machine.

 

I'm not denying that it is. It's a "little SPAD" that can certainly be flown to its advantages.

 

 

It is, however, not a good reproduction of the actual Nieuport 28. There is enough solid evidence to substantiate the fact that the plane was a capable, yet ill-fated (and dangerous) turnfighter, comparable to a Nieuport 17 or Hanriot HD.1.

 

Much like the British pilots flying the Bristol Fighter in its first sortie ran into Manfred von Richthofen and got blasted to pieces, the American pilots flying the Nieuport 28 in one of their first large-scale operations ran into Ernst Udet and also got blasted to pieces.

 

The Bristol Fighter later redeemed itself. The Nieuport 28 never really got the chance to.

 

 

 

So I'll say just this about the Nieuport 28: it can't ever really exist in RoF, if you care about historical accuracy.

 

You can fly it the way it's been represented right now and adapt your tactics accordingly. This is great and you deserve to be saluted and applauded. These are however not historical tactics to be used in such a plane. Call this machine whatever you like, but don't call it a Nieuport 28.

 

You can demand that the N28's FM be fixed, but then you must also demand that it sheds fabric in a dive, that its fuel lines vibrate to the point of catching fire and that the partially burnt engine fumes accumulated inside the cowling ignite if you blip it too long. Yes, I would love to see it happening.

 

Can we ever expect to see this kind of damage modeling in RoF? Probably not before RoF2.

 

 

 

We proceeded to have a close to 5 minute duel in these machines, with varying tactics and maneuvers. I tried to disengage once, but he shot me a bit (some damge but not major) and expended his ammo. I turned back and we parried and thrusted for some time, although I knew he was out of ammo, he flew so well I could never get a "meat shot" on him and always either missed, or could only manage hits on his outer wing tips. A great fencing duel to the very last! And I salute him again "S!" for his skill. Long story short, these two planes are very well matched now, much more historically than previously, although perhaps not perfect...and if his pals had showed up....I woulda been toast. I secured the victory and was able to disengage and run home due to the fact he finally ran out of gas from the fuel leak, but if it weren't for this intitial stroke of luck in leaking him in my first attack, it would've been a complete draw. Great fight, and indicative that things are much closer to the way they should be. The venom I see exhibited however in some of these posts seems odd though, and makes one wonder if a desire for historical accuracy is really at it's heart.

 

 

I'm really happy you had a great fight with Gus. Salute to both of you!

 

I do find it very odd that you think these planes would have been a match in a fight. The Camel would have either very quickly won this fight by getting on your six, or you would have very quickly won this fight by diving in from high, blasting the Camel to pieces and diving away.

 

So yes, the outcome is the same. The way you got there is very different from history.

 

 

 

I will say the same to you as you said in your post above: learn new tactics, it's a good thing.

 

Against the Camel, the D.Va should only be flown fast and straight like a BnZ'er. I would dare say: like RoF's depiction of the N28.

 

:icon_e_salute:


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#425 =HillBilly=

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 14:33

To everyone claiming the DVa is doing something in ROF that it did not do in real life.

Put your money where your mouth is, provide PROOF if you can. The same goes for the N28 


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#426 J2_VonGraff

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 14:34

I do find it very odd that you think these planes would have been a match in a fight.

 

A good match only in exactly the way that this particular fight played out. In other words how they should behave vs.one another is now more appropriately represented. If he had retained enough ammo, I couldn't have hoped for much success staying in a turning fight. And if I didn't completely cripple him in my first attack (which is difficult to do....and I didn't) it's in my better interest to use my speed as an advantage (the only one I've got) to get away or at least get some distance for another pass attempt....which is a risky longshot. They are well (historically) matched. And the Camel is lethal in skilled hands.

 

V-Graff

 

PS> If he hadn't run out of fuel I likely would've expended the few rounds I had left in a futile attempt to down a machine who's only assett was a great pilot....and no ammunition! I certainly couldn't get any decent shot into him in a turn fight with the ammunition I had while he still had power, and once his prop stopped turning, I let him land. Speaks a great deal towards its abilities.


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#427 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 15:35

V-Graff Salute! and thank you for trying to insert some reason into a unreasonable thread.

This thread started as one of regular rants and would have died after three pages of kimmy_jäger, Brave Sir Robin and gtgrahamshere flaming each other if Bender hadn't given it much unneeded credibility.

Bender, everybody not interested in flaming has agreed with you already, in principle at least. You said your part, then you said it again and again. We know. We agree.Your rage against heavens is not helping in finding ways to make the game playable and enjoyable... which I believe Von Graff is trying to demonstrate ... it only helps resident trolls beat their drum, and helps convince community to fracture, squabble, blame each other and forfeit the game and community rather than find a way to enjoy it. This is what almost happened to BoS recently, veteran pilots literally tearing the community apart before the sim even launched, because they considered it not made to their standards.

 

You've set me up into RoF by the way of your old guide and I'm glad to see you back, hope I'll meet you flying Cl.II in my politically correct se5a one day :icon_e_salute: . But in this thread... we know, we've heard, we've agreed, we are taking what steps we can, both mission makers and Jastas. Let the usual offenders have their three pages at each others throat then let it end. We know.


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Deputy Staffelführer, Jasta 2 ''Boelcke'' http://jasta2.org

“Now now,” Akua chided. “Personal attacks are the mark of failed argument. If you’ve no counterpoint to offer, such flailing only serves to shed further light on your incompetence.”


#428 gavagai

gavagai
  • Posts: 15542

Posted 27 March 2015 - 15:53

To everyone claiming the DVa is doing something in ROF that it did not do in real life.

Put your money where your mouth is, provide PROOF if you can. The same goes for the N28 

 

Sorry, I don't see how this is supposed to be helpful.  No one has proof of anything either way in these discussions.  All we can ask for is evidence and open minded dialogue.

 

And for goodness sake Hillbilly, if proof have been the standard of evidence for FM tweaks, they would have never happened.


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#429 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 16:00

Even if you had proof, it looks like they're done with FM revisions.


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The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#430 Hellbender

Hellbender
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  • LocationMadrid, Spain (originally Brussels, Belgium)

Posted 27 March 2015 - 16:51

Trupo,

 

A year ago, I'd have completely agreed with you. In fact, if you had told me that I'd be right here complaining in this FM thread, I'd have laughed at the idea. Heck, I didn't even have Rise of Flight installed anymore. I was honestly set up for the long haul, waiting for 777/1CGS to finish their thing with IL-2 and then eventually see improvements trickle down to RoF, little by little. This could've taken 5 years, for all I care. Heck, it might even have taken 10 years, I would still have remained in the blissful illusion that eventually something would happen, even if it was RoF2 by that time.

 

If you'd have asked me then: "Hey, what about the FMs?" I would have said: "Patience! Have faith!"

 

Man, I should've been a priest. 

 

 

 

The update in December came as a very pleasant surprise, but it also made things a lot more definitive with this statement:

 

However, we have taken into account the general comments on the forums about various FMs and attempted to tweak them to match the requests. But we need to warn everyone, changing FMs can lead to unforeseen technical issues and unintended consequences. The endless debates about flight models will likely continue no matter what we do or how hard we try to make it right. So, with that in mind, this is likely the last attempt to tweak existing FMs in ROF. We’ve given it our best shot and we hope you find them acceptable.

 

Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

On the whole, what happened to the Camel, Dr.I, Pfalz D.IIIa and Bristol was good. It was needed, badly. I might even say that it came way, way too late, but then you'd call me a cynic and thankless. I'm very grateful for the update.

 

What happened to some other planes, was a bit more in the, ahum, "unintended consequences" category. 

 

 

 

Now the new website is live, the spring sale has gone live, yet there's been no word of future plans for RoF.

 

There's not even been an update to the store pages with the updated performance figures.

 

Can you really blame me for having little faith in RoF's future and just accepting that "everything will eventually get sorted out"?

 

 

 

I'm not holding a gun to 777's head. I'm not making demands, or telling new customers to stay away. As far as I'm concerned, they've long since delivered on their promise to give us the best WWI sim out there.

 

I can only see that if you make bold and closing statements toward the community about things that have been up for debate for years, there's going to be backlash. Even from people who gave pretty much blind support before.

 

For once, I'm simply not behaving like a fanboy (I think someone once called me an "incorrigible apple polisher"), but like a concerned paying customer who fears for the future of his favourite flightsim.

 

I'm really sorry if I offended anyone.


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J5_Hellbender


#431 =HillBilly=

=HillBilly=
  • Posts: 5605
  • LocationSouthern Ozark Mountains

Posted 27 March 2015 - 16:54

Sorry, I don't see how this is supposed to be helpful.  No one has proof of anything either way in these discussions.  All we can ask for is evidence and open minded dialogue.

 

And for goodness sake Hillbilly, if proof have been the standard of evidence for FM tweaks, they would have never happened.

That is the point I was making, people making wild claims about what the planes should not do, based only on their personal feelings. 


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     So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

 
 


#432 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 16:59

So, with that in mind, this is likely the last attempt to tweak existing FMs in ROF.


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The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#433 closed_accont

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 18:00

Hello J2_VonGraff!
I remember that fight! it was really fun, thanks.

just before, I saw you two going to inside our land from edge of mud, but higher alt, I followed until you guys dived on train, then I did shoot on an DXII and after we started our fight... as you told.
you've did smart moves out there, I expected that you don't realized I was run out of ammo, well does not worked and I became without options.

I hope we can do it again soon.
Salute!

 

Ps. thanks for the landing! I appreciate your kindness


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#434 J2_VonGraff

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 18:06

I hope we can do it again soon.  Salute!

 

Absolutely hope so, and you are a very skilled Camel pilot! :icon_e_salute:

 

S!

 

V-Graff


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'Flight leader, fuel check - I have "E" gallons sir.'

 

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#435 Ceowulf

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  • Posts: 360
  • LocationA long way from Tipperary

Posted 27 March 2015 - 18:29

Bender,

You don't offend me and I strongly agree with a lot of your thoughts.  What I have to say I mean with real respect for you - you and Trupobaw are miles above me in ability and what you bring to this community.  

 

I just want to say, though, that I DO think it's really important that we balance our discussions in favor of making the current game playable and enjoyable, especially for new players.  I think it's the best way to keep our sim alive and healthy.  (I don't have another game and I don't want one.)  Lots of people playing, especially new people, means more money for the title and more chance for wish lists granted.  I think "general discussions" in this forum is where a lot of people come to see what our community looks like.  We just don't want them to only see dirty laundry.    

 

Again, I know I'm writing to the guy who wrote a lot of the posts that helped me into ROF!

 

LP<><

 

PS.  I really do wish the N28 would turn tighter.  Just saying...


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#436 mb339pan

mb339pan
  • Posts: 89
  • LocationItaly

Posted 27 March 2015 - 21:56

there is no denying that the development of BoS had a negative impact on the latest aircraft, FE2B, strutter 1/2 and finally the 'Hanriot Dh1

there was a decline in attention to detail
, i love Hanriot Dh1, but in combat is terriffic, for the hardest plane, because of poor frontal view (geometries wrong) and the paper wings, in the books is mentioned as a plane very strong, and instead just a few strokes to disintegrate wings


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#437 J2_Adam

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 02:23

Mb339pan,

The lack of attention to detail started much earlier than that. It goes waaaay back to 2010 or 2011.
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#438 Thaatu

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 09:23

Mb339pan,

The lack of attention to detail started much earlier than that. It goes waaaay back to 2010 or 2011.

Based on what? The FMs with the most complaints are from the initial release in 2009. For example R.E.8, released in 2011, certainly has its details attended to.


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#439 J2_Adam

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 11:20

Based on a thread that was started by Jorri back then.


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#440 mb339pan

mb339pan
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Posted 28 March 2015 - 11:43

Based on what? The FMs with the most complaints are from the initial release in 2009. For example R.E.8, released in 2011, certainly has its details attended to.

 

no FM problem, but serious shortcomings and bugs, exemple?

 

no camera on strutter (lack inexplicable) then added after various penances on this forum and after a long time

 

FE2B have bug whit no engine hitbox the bullets do not hit the engine but the pilot (then solved), armament wrong

 

end at last DH1: historically had a very robust plane, in the game has paper wings, incorrect modeling of the geometry of the windshield (shit frontal visibility) end ballon guns WTF??? never read of such a weapon mounted


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