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Announcing Rise of Flight: United Edition


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#321 Wykletypl

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 14:15

… snipp….
I did some research of my own and I found out that Albatross D.Va and Pfalz planes all had one thing in common - they were heavy on controls and downright tiring to fly. And Pflaz DIIIa could easily stall on aggressive turn (much like Camel does in the game). So maybe if You are not going to fix FMs any more, then at least You could make it look like that - Sopwith Triplane and Nieuport 28 will finally be able to outturn the older Pflaz D.IIIa and Albatross D.Va simply because they are much lighter to easier to control by pilots.
Oh, and it would be nice if AI be fixed - so that every time a dogfight begins, the enemy will stop diving into the ground from like 3000 metres for no bloody reason other than to piss the gamer off, and attempt to fight back on the same attitude - Just like Udet vs Guynemer stood at about 5000 metres all the time. Especially since I have never seen a plane that escaped from the fight by diving.

And that aside from the infamous Campaign Award Glitch - either fix or tell us these awards: Hat in The Ring Start, Hat in The Ring Completion, Du Doch Nicht Medallion, Du Doch Nicht Souvenir and all the awards for St.Mihiel, are no longer available.

One should be weary of asking for a change just because of single references. Telling from scources I came across, the Albys were planes that were very nice to fly, you could fly them "with just two fingers" on the stick, whereas the pflaz required more force and was more sluggish on the controls.

The Udet vs Guynemer duel just has Udet as scource and what happened is not confirmed in any other scource. So it is a nice story, but no more than that.

Such events are also not very relible to get hard data on the planes. If two pilots fight it out in the real world, the loser usually gets the impression of the other plane having better qualities than his. An example is Cecil Lewis, when he told in his book 'Sagittaris Rising' the episode of Guynemeyer visiting 56 Squadron. A mock fight between Lewis (in his SE5a) and Guynemer in his Spad: Lewis could not shake him off, no matter what he tried. Lewis knew it was due to the pilot because the SPAD is not that more maneuvreable than the SE5.

Diving is not as useful in the sim because the player usually is very ready to take the risk following an opponent down low. Doing so over enemy territory exposed you to much more dangers as there are in RoF where you only have few places where people are shooting at you. And being below all other planes is also not so bad because if you don't make it home, you can restart the mission. Diving was common practise as well as spinning down playing dead. Strategy is ok, it's the circumstances that make it less reasonable. As soon as you know you are losing a fight, you don't stay to get killed. Down low you have an option to land. Up there, you die for sure when losing a fight.

It's clear that AI leves room to improve. But removing the dive I don't think would help much.

Z

Well, I suppose that's the biggest problem with sources - There are so many of them and You never know which ones are more reliable than others. Guess the only way to verify them is to actually fly the planes themselves - which itself is one hell of a challenge.

To be fair, yesterday, minutes after posting the post You responded to, I did try out Sopwith Triplane with two Vickers against Albatross D.Va and I managed to outturn it - YES, I said it, I have managed to outturn to shoot it down. And not once, but twice - That's because in Quick Mission I have a custom to land the plane after shooting down the enemy, and the first time I botched the landing.

So maybe I have some difficulty in synchronizing my hand on the joystick and yaw and that's why I have so much trouble in flying those Entente scouts - I say MAYBE.

As for the dive, I did not say to remove it - just make the enemy stop doing that in every dogfight for no real reason than to make You angry. It's infuriating for You if you have to climb back to say 3000 metres, but it's also illogical for enemy fighters, who presumably have missions of their own - So again, why would they do that? This is a kind of stuff that killed Manfred von Richthofen and Edward Mannock. They should know better.
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#322 ZachariasX

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 15:56

Well, I suppose that's the biggest problem with sources - There are so many of them and You never know which ones are more reliable than others. Guess the only way to verify them is to actually fly the planes themselves - which itself is one hell of a challenge.

To be fair, yesterday, minutes after posting the post You responded to, I did try out Sopwith Triplane with two Vickers against Albatross D.Va and I managed to outturn it - YES, I said it, I have managed to outturn to shoot it down. And not once, but twice - That's because in Quick Mission I have a custom to land the plane after shooting down the enemy, and the first time I botched the landing.

So maybe I have some difficulty in synchronizing my hand on the joystick and yaw and that's why I have so much trouble in flying those Entente scouts - I say MAYBE.

As for the dive, I did not say to remove it - just make the enemy stop doing that in every dogfight for no real reason than to make You angry. It's infuriating for You if you have to climb back to say 3000 metres, but it's also illogical for enemy fighters, who presumably have missions of their own - So again, why would they do that? This is a kind of stuff that killed Manfred von Richthofen and Edward Mannock. They should know better.


Yes it is definitely a bummer when your AI opponent does things like that and sometimes it is not a plausible reaction. Especially DFWs do that even AFTER the rear gunner riddled your plane with holes already and conequently impairs his gunners ability to hit you while nicely exposing the weak wings. But there are many examples as you say.

With the exception of the N.28 the plans as we have them now offer plausible representations of the real thing. But it is hard at times to use the planes to their best capabilities. A good joystick is surely no luxury.

There is just the problem that things like making existing maps better or improving AI are expensive coding time with a questionable revenue. It has been mentioned that the fate of this sim is going more into "War thunder Style". In the light of lowered risk for expected revenue this makes sense. And it doesn't have to translate into bad or simplyfied FMs tailored for game balance. It is just when 777 are putting money on the line, investing in a Sopwith Snipe is a more sure bet in having immediate revenues than making amendmends to existing stuff and expecting these improved features will create sales to people who didn't buy the sim because they first wanted to have these specific corrections. But the drive for new "good" dogfighters is probably what is driving the popularity of nice but highly irrelevant late planes like the Siemens Schuckert or the Snipe. But a cornerstone of the Corps aircraft, like the Quirk is left out. Just because you can't really frag a lot in MP. Later planes are always better in that, even when they were so late that they never existed. "Man I could toast all these Camels in that!" Sigh.

If things are going that way that we get simple maps and lots of individual stuff to buy for a couple of bucks each, I sincerely hope that 777 open their store to 3rd parties that are willing to contribute as well. This way they still could curate what they offer as well make something of those revenues as well. DCS has 3rd party planes if I am informed correctly.

But lets see where it goes. After flying MP often, it is indeed much less fun fighting AI. But this will always be. And with PWCG, we have something nice that makes up for a lot of things. Many thanks, Pat!! :S!:
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#323 Wile_E_Quixote

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 18:12

….I did some research of my own and I found out that Albatross D.Va and Pfalz planes all had one thing in common - they were heavy on controls and downright tiring to fly….

Heaviness of controls does not mean the plane is unable to do the maneuver; it means that it was physically hard for the pilot to move the control due to factors of plane weight and design, thereby being more tiring for the pilot in active maneuvering situations.

Heaviness of controls is a factor that can't be reproduced in RoF as it is now. This is a factor that would affect ALL planes, to varying degrees. There is nothing they could do to make your hardware (joystick) actually harder to move in certain situations; it would take special hardware in conjunction with changes in the sim that would affect it's operation. Even then most people would just have a conventional joystick; in order to defeat any advantage those players would have, the game would have to have a restriction, and that would limit the customers by far too much to be viable, even if such hardware existed.

What could be done in some future sim ("RoF II" :D ) would be to design control surface response curves (NOT what we already have, those would still need to remain) but curves that are individual to each plane, non-adjustable by users, and dependent on factors like surface area of the surface being moved, speed, weight, friction of controls or whatever else could be thought of. These curves would vary the time it takes for a control surface to get from where you have it to where you just moved it to with your joystick. It would vary from zero (on the ground, non-moving) to some maximum degree of effort (high speed dive). This would be impossible to get absolutely correct because without real planes to measure from it would be entirely subjective. However, some formulas might be derived that would be better than nothing, and POSSIBLY give at least some RELATIVE degree of plane performance differences; like, say, a Sopwith Pup would have a much better response curve than an Albatros D.Va pulling out of a high-speed dive.

The physical resistance thing I think is one very large reason we have domination by planes in RoF that weren't actually that dominant IRL, and why some that were supposed to be dominant, like the Fokker D.VII, aren't nearly as effective as they "should" be. The ability in this game of planes like SPADs or other fast-movers to just pull right up into Pitts-Special-like over-the-top maneuvers (typical BnZ out of dives) makes them more capable than possibly they should be. What IRL might cause you to overshoot in a dive too steep or too fast, does not occur here, except by limitations imposed by the actual structural weakness of the planes themselves. Actually the curves would, in many cases, make it far more improbable that you would yank your wings off by moving your control too quickly; the curve just wouldn't allow it because it would decide you physically wouldn't be able to. Break up would be more a function of max top speeds, wing flutter, etc.

Blah, blah, blah :lol:

OK guys, shoot me down here :S!:
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#324 grandpa

grandpa
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Posted 30 December 2014 - 13:55

I cannot activate game with code I was given I get no response from rof@777studios.net is there anyone there who can help me with this problem
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#325 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 15:53

I fear its too long ago for me to remember, but do you really need to activate it? I think Email + Password is enough, same like on the forums, no?
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#326 Wykletypl

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 19:14

Just out of curiosity - Who is the protagonist of Ilya Muromets? Is he based on actual Russian pilot?
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#327 =HillBilly=

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 20:36

Just out of curiosity - Who is the protagonist of Ilya Muromets? Is he based on actual Russian pilot?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Muromets
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     So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

 
 


#328 Wykletypl

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 21:09

Just out of curiosity - Who is the protagonist of Ilya Muromets? Is he based on actual Russian pilot?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Muromets


Alright, but I was talking about the Russian pilot we play as in the campaign, not the figure the campaign/plane is named from.
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#329 Wykletypl

Wykletypl
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Posted 29 January 2015 - 21:12

Speaking of release of United Edition, You know what is needed to fix for the newer menu buttons? Frames for the Medals and Awards You might want to display on Your menu screen - Many of them are way too big, which makes putting them side by side a nightmare, let alone pressing the newer buttons - I couldn't press those on the main menu screen because I constantly kept selecting 'Gold Sword for Bravery' award and it's description.
So yeah, Listen to it, 777 Studios - Minimalizing the frames for awards/medals in main meny is needed.
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