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Fokker Dr.I Dreideckerholics Anonymous


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#241 SeaW0lf

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 07:09

I suspect the Pup could go faster if it had a different prop.

 

Perhaps, but the Pup has a web of bracing wires (although they were streamlined). The Dr.1 looks more modern in terms of design, which might give it a tad in speed. There are some NASA studies on these planes and the DR.1 has an unexpected drag efficiency.

 

Perhaps what might have made a difference back then for the Dr.1 was the climb rate, a more powerful engine and prop settings accordingly (plus the two machineguns). I know little about it, but Voss' prop seemed to be huge. That would give a decisive advantage for the Dr.1. Josef Jacobs liked his Dr.1 with a 130hp Clerget engine because of the extra punch it carried IIRC (and he flew them until the end of the war), so I think the Dr.1 would be a generation ahead of the Pup and pilots would not fear an encounter with the latter. Otherwise the Pup would not be replaced so fast and she would have the status of the Camel and the Dr.1. But we never know.

 

The community of private historic replicas owners could get together in some sort of historic institute to study those planes. It surprises me that especially the British aircraft don't have such a study with the whole royalty and proud of the country.


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#242 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 07:36

I always thought the pup was replaced by the Tripe.


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#243 SeaW0lf

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 08:09

I always thought the pup was replaced by the Tripe.

 

Manfred von Richthofen shot down a Pup in his Fokker F.1 102 IIRC. Gould Lee has more than one account of his Pup squadron facing Fokkers, so both aircraft fought over the front. See below.

 

We ran into the new Hun triplane this morning. Scott led Hughes, Shadwell, Armitage and me, and we were well on the other side of the Lines by six o'clock. (...) After an hour at 13,000 without seeing much except a strong formation of D.H.4s making east on a bombing raid, and of course the inevitable artillery spotters apparently standing still far below, we were bounced out of the sun by nine D-Vs. (...) It was then that I had a brief contact with the triplane, which stood out not only because it was a tripe but because of its performance. It was an astonishing sight to watch it soaring up over the other Huns in a steep effortless climb. It's very like a Sopwith Triplane, rotary engined, but the middle and top wings are longer than the bottom, and when it approaches, the wing-tips seem on the slope.
 
(...) Then the triplane, becoming bored, started a little war on his own. He climbed up well above his pack and dived alone at whichever Pup happened to be handy, fired a burst, then zoomed up and away back to the others. I happened to be one of the handy Pups at a moment when I was in a steep turn after firing fifty rounds at a Hun dappled like a snake. I heard the rattle of guns, saw tracer flash by my right shoulder, jerked the machine into a split-ass turn towards him, but he zoomed as I fired, half-rolled and slid back to his own team. Afterwards, I found he'd put twelve rounds in a neat group through my right upper wing, a foot from the centre section strut. I sincerely hope my brief burst holed him too. (...) Anyway, after four or five of these dive-and-zoom efforts with no results, he climbed away and made south, with two D-Vs hanging on their props trying to reach him. [Gould Lee -- No Parachute: A Classic Account of War in the Air in WWI]

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#244 Chill31

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 19:19

Oh Yeah, I can see how my post might have been a little misleading. The Dr1 absolutely dominates the Pup according to these guys.
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#245 SeaW0lf

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 22:15

Oh Yeah, I can see how my post might have been a little misleading. The Dr1 absolutely dominates the Pup according to these guys.

 

Cool, that is good to know -- coming from people who fly these crates together.


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#246 Chill31

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 17:15

I flew the Dr1 on a "combat mission" the other day as I took it on a 1 hour 30 minute cross country. It is an extraordinary experience to be able to sense what those guys felt 100 years ago. The seat is very uncomfortable after about 45 minutes and the wind leaves your face vibrating for hours afterward.

The Dr1s need for constant adjustment left my right hand cramping up about an hour in to the flight.

After 5 hours of flying that day, I was truly exhausted.

I made it to an altitude of 7,500 feet and I would venture a guess that is the highest a Dr1 has flown in 100 years. It was an interesting transition going from 70 degrees on the ground to 50 at altitude. 50 degrees isn't all that bad, but after 20 minutes or so at 90 mph, it is gets rather chilly. My flying coat and gloves were welcome accessories.

I saw 3 planes on my flight. A Cessna 310 passed below me at about 6000 feet. I almost bounced him :P I wondered if he saw me and felt he just time warped...then I saw another plane which landed at the same airport I did. In my return home, I was bounced by an RV6 or 7. I gave a wave and he flew off.

Truly one of the best experiences I've had in aviation.

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#247 xvii-Dietrich

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 17:33

Well cool.

 

Getting real photographs from a real aircraft in real conditions is very useful in getting the look-and-feel right for the simulators. I do hope the developers of Flying Circus take a look at these.

 

 

I saw 3 planes on my flight. A Cessna 310 passed below me at about 6000 feet. I almost bounced him :P I wondered if he saw me and felt he just time warped...then I saw another plane which landed at the same airport I did. In my return home, I was bounced by an RV6 or 7. I gave a wave and he flew off.

 

Hehe... nice.


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#248 Zooropa_Fly

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 18:01

Fabulous, thanks for sharing with us :icon_e_biggrin:.

 

:icon_e_salute:


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".. and they'll send you home in a pine overcoat, with a letter to your Mum,

    Saying find enclosed one son one medal and a note, to, say, he, Won".


#249 SeaW0lf

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 23:54

I can only imagine! Awesome experience! I loved the part when you were 'bounced'. Fun times. Thanks for sharing the pics as well. You were flying high  :icon_e_salute:


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#250 US103_Baer

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 00:24

Living the dream. Thanks for posting Chill.
The original pilots all write of the cold and discomfort, but it's easy to gloss over that while reading now, in comfort.
The picture sitting on side of cockpit is classic. S!
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"Gathering his pilots around him on arrival he gave a pep talk, saying that they were equipped with the finest machine of all time and had three battle-experienced flight commanders. He expected every one of them to fight like hell and that it must never be said that any of them ever failed to go to the aid of a comrade, regardless of the cost, and that no patrol was ever to be late in taking off."

 

Major Keith 'Grid' Caldwell, 74 Sq


#251 J2_Adam

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 05:07

I flew the Dr1 on a "combat mission" the other day as I took it on a 1 hour 30 minute cross country. It is an extraordinary experience to be able to sense what those guys felt 100 years ago. The seat is very uncomfortable after about 45 minutes and the wind leaves your face vibrating for hours afterward.

The Dr1s need for constant adjustment left my right hand cramping up about an hour in to the flight.

After 5 hours of flying that day, I was truly exhausted.

I made it to an altitude of 7,500 feet and I would venture a guess that is the highest a Dr1 has flown in 100 years. It was an interesting transition going from 70 degrees on the ground to 50 at altitude. 50 degrees isn't all that bad, but after 20 minutes or so at 90 mph, it is gets rather chilly. My flying coat and gloves were welcome accessories.

I saw 3 planes on my flight. A Cessna 310 passed below me at about 6000 feet. I almost bounced him :P I wondered if he saw me and felt he just time warped...then I saw another plane which landed at the same airport I did. In my return home, I was bounced by an RV6 or 7. I gave a wave and he flew off.

Truly one of the best experiences I've had in aviation.

 

Aw man! Chill that is just too cool. It's my dream to own a WW1 bird one day. Never give up hope I say. I'd like an Albatros or a DVII. Pretty expensive venture though unless you can share the expenses with someone. Cheaper than rental if you fly alot for sure. At Boundary Bay (CZBB) a dual flight is over $200 per hour and rental is $140 per hour plus taxes plus member fees plus plus plus. Costs me a fortune to get my medical done these days being over 40 and all. 

 

Looks like you are really enjoying yourself and I hope that you continue to share your experiences with us. Have you thought about the airshow circuit?

 

S!


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#252 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 07:04

How many hr's of flight time do you think you have on that bird. Do you get to fly formation with any other DR1"s or any other WW1 planes?


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#253 Chill31

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 13:04

Yes, the extreme discomfort was a surprise to me.  Perhaps it is different if you get into a fight and you arent droning along on a XC flight, but there were a couple of times I was ready to bail out instead of finish the flight.  If you want to have a genuine WWI experience, get  a straight backed chair with a wooden board for a seat bottom...AND NEVER LET GO OF YOUR FLIGHT CONTROLS...for an hour and half.  

 

Aviation has gotten a lot more expensive in the last 15 years.  When I was growing up, it was much more affordable, and I was lucky enough to have parents who encouraged my flying.  

 

I have 40 hours in the Dr1, and unfortunately, there aren't any others around me.  A guy is building one in AL, so I will fly mine down to visit him when he is finished.  Hopefully, we can get some air to air shots of our planes in formation.  His is red like MvRs.  I have done some formation flying with my Dr1, and it is an enjoyable experience.  You can see some of it here in this video: 

 


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#254 GrahamshereGT

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 17:34

Have you ever been invited to perform in air shows?


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#255 J2_Adam

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 17:37

Thanks Graham. He missed the question in my other post.


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#256 Chill31

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 00:59

Sorry about that, I have been invited on a couple of occasions, logistics didn't work out on the first and the second is scheduled for late this year on the anniversary of Lindbergh's crossing the Atlantic.  If all goes to plan, I will fly it to Americus GA for that event.


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