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Flying the Allied Crates: Good Tips Anyone?


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#1 HotleadColdfeet

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 03:16

Hi all! I've been flying on Aces Falling on and off and loving every minute of it. There are some very talented pilots there to learn from. :D

Now on their maps that exclude the Camel and Dr 1, I typically like to fly Central with the Pfalz D.IIIa and Albys II and III. But lately whenever I arrive, the Allies are hopelessly outnumbered, so I fly with them to balance the sides. (It seems the Dark Side is popular…mwawhaha! :twisted: - but I digress.)
Anyway, I like this, because it forces me to learn new skills. But I feel rather like a fish out of water flying the mainly rotary-based lineup of Allied crates. Lately I've been flying the Hanriot HD.1 and Sopwith Tripehound. (Although I went out on a limb and bought the Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter and Dolphin today. Haven't tried the Dolphin yet, but I've tried the Strutter B. It is possibly my favorite of the planes I listed previously.)
Although I do ok and get kills here and there, I still don't feel as comfortable flying these planes as I do in their Central counterparts. So, I'm turning to you, my fellow pilots! What are some good strategies, techniques and tips for flying the above Allied planes? (Could also include the Nieuport 17 and 11 even though I can't seem to wrap my head around them at the present.)

As I've said before, I'm here to learn, so all advice is welcome. :)
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#2 J2_Oelmann

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 06:30

Dolphin is great. Good view up and front. You have to peek beneath the wings to find your targets below. But it turns good and has a decent speed and is quite stable when you aim.
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#3 ZachariasX

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 07:33

I ärgere, the Dolphin is a decent plane and rather quick. It can outturn most German fighters down betreten the trees, except the Dr.I and DVIIF. The others (like PflazIII) tend to bleed energy fast enough, that AFTER about one circle the Dolphin gehts the edge on them. Use the additional loser Wing guns and you can hit very hard on your first pass on the enemy. Damaged, they will be a good frag for you. If they are all healthy and come in with energy advantage, you are in trouble.

The tripehound is very nice as well. For furball it is important not to waste too much time for the killing process, so two guns serve you well and it can still compete with the Albys on equal terms, while being faster. Sometimes, you can run if you feel like it. With one gun, you beat any Alby at their own game. Just keep in mind, desperate Alby pilots usually tend to prophang after some scissors. that slow you are hardly maneuvrable in the Tripe and you may need to blip the engine to maneuver. More often than not he will still make run into him. Some Alby drivers take that personal, as you may know. But as said, as long as you dont get hits yourself, the Tripe is great.

Hanriot is more like the Dolphin, a na a good climber and fast. You can BnZ your Way with the earlier German scouts. On the deck, same as the Dolphin, it bleeds much less energy than Albys and Pfalz. You enter a tun with speed to stay with your opponent, and by the time you bled your additional energy, youe opponent usually has bled the energy he would need to fight you. Don't enter a fight at a disadvantage, you will not have tome to mend that.

Hope that helps. Just my 2 cents. Others may have different ideas, but that is what works well for me.
Z
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#4 Pirato

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:34

Use the Sopwith Triplanes Climbrate to stay on top of the fight,same goes for the N17. Biggest trouble is the prophanging shots. If they get you, then that way. Also the prophanging makes them an easy target, try to move out of their bullets and dive on them as soon as you are seeing them dropping the nose because of energy loss. Timing is important,especially against the quickly recovering Albatros D.II and the Pfalz D.III.
Personally I wouldn't sacrifice manoeuvrability and speed by adding additional guns to either the Sopwith Tripe or any of the Nieuports. One gun is enough to disable any plane while a second gun is worth nothing if you can't get in position for a clean shot. A second gun would work well if you can bounce them to do as much damage possible on your first pass. But it's hard to surprise anyone with Labels showing.
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#5 ZachariasX

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 11:14

…snipp…
Personally I wouldn't sacrifice manoeuvrability and speed by adding additional guns to either the Sopwith Tripe or any of the Nieuports. One gun is enough to disable any plane while a second gun is worth nothing if you can't get in position for a clean shot. A second gun would work well if you can bounce them to do as much damage possible on your first pass. But it's hard to surprise anyone with Labels showing.


It's surprising whom you might surprise ;) But yes, one gun can disable any plane, that for sure. My point was more when you are in a furball such on AF (where trees are coming at you from nowhere and apart from that you only see red labels) then you often don't have the luxury to take the time for a clean shot. The Albys can well spray'n'pray at you, while with only one gun, you don't have that luxury. Especially the Tripe, the 2 guns have more than double firepower as the twin layout also allows for higher fire rate. Thus, apart from having the reasonable chance against a heavy bomber, it allows you to take snapshots at opponents. A couple of hits and a planes' performance is severely toned down. A plane with a better turn than you, if you could take a good snapshot at it while having a pass at him, can turn into an inferior plane. THEN the additional weight doesn't matter anymore that much. So if you go with heavy guns, you have to fight differently than you would as stated by Pirato.

Another thing is: If you face for instance a Dr.I while driving a Dolphin, then no matter what your weapon layout or leading is, you're hopelessly inferior at close quarters. The (moderate) penalty you get from the wing guns gives you the edge at hitting him very hard in passes. So the Dr.I is strongly discouraged in making frontal passes at you, because you dish out more than double (your guns also have higher rate of fire). Wing guns or no wing guns, you will NEVER directly turn into him, but you have to get away and come in for another pass. You can turn into him when you see him smoking, losing parts, etc. Then you can go get and finish him with any plane. The DH4 is a deadly plane if flown like that. The only 6-gun plane in RoF (with mods) apart from the Felix.

If you have the patience and opportunity to single out your opponent, one gun is more than enough. RoF keeps them also more accurate I feel (is that really so?). Then do as Piri said. I painfully know he's right about his way ;)

Z
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#6 Pirato

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 11:43

Well,yes I didn't take into account the fighting at tree tops with low speeds,there every firepower you can get counts…there is not much you can do except for flying in circles anyway.
I always try to avoid to fight at Tree tops,it limits the options you have seriously. Down is not an option,getting up and out of the fight is hard too once you dropped to a certain speed. Then only banking left and right is what you can do,hoping for some hard hitting shots before you crash into a tree or get shot down. In this scenario more guns are better….you are low and slow anyway.
But thats not a preferable way to fly. I do not advice to do so,even though it gets more rewarded than flying cautious and thoughtful. Unfortunally there are no real penalties for a virtual Death, otherwise the way people are flying and picking their fights would change drastically in my opinion.
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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
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#7 ZachariasX

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 12:30

…snipp.., otherwise the way people are flying and picking their fights would change drastically in my opinion.

Indeed. From down under the trees up to the ceiling of the planes. Like it did back then. Problem is,for many game purposes it takes way too long to go up there. If you have only like 30 mins time before RL frags you, then climbing to 5000 metrs, stalking your victim etc. is way too time consuming. AF is popular for a reason, it allows fast gameplay. But flying for an hour and stalikng a prey just to notice that you got stalked by the likes of you Piri ;) is not so rewarding. Instant foddder is on the ground, high turnover, many frags like playing Doom. In 30 min you can score that way. But trying to get a Gotha at 6000 Meters. Or two of them… takes longer… as nice as it is ;)


Z
:S!:
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#8 HotleadColdfeet

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 23:19

Thanks guys! I flew the Dolphin to today and managed to get one kill in it! :D However the gunsight is throwing me off. It seems the guns fire below the sight. This has proven very disorienting/frustrating. :x :o :evil: Is there something else I can use to aim more precisely with?
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#9 Pirato

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 00:43

Get the Aldis Gunsight that comes with the Fieldmods.
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#10 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 01:56

Yep, Aldis sight highly recomended. :)


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#11 HotleadColdfeet

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 02:45

Talk about red hot action! Thanks for the video Sid! I'll definitely have to get an aldis. ;) Are there any other planes you and Pirato would reccomended getting the aldis for?
Also, do the lower wing guns on the dolphin reload when the drums run out? Or is there no putting new drums on them?
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#12 SeaW0lf

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 03:35

If you get the Sopwith Tripe, don't forget to set the trim for the elevator. The Aldis works well for the N11 too.
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#13 HotleadColdfeet

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 04:33

I have the Tripe. What do you mean by the trim? I have noticed many dr 1 and tripe plots do much better than I do…could trim be what I've been missing? Does it affect performance such as maintaining a tight turn? Sorry for so many questions, but I'm curious. :mrgreen:
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#14 SeaW0lf

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 05:22

The Dr.I does not have native trim, so you can only play with the curves – I myself leave it the way it comes. But the Sopwith Tripe and some other planes, like the RE8 and the SE5e, have a trim wheel for the elevator that is historically accurate. You can change the angle of attack of the elevator. Go to options / Responses / Stabilizer. This can give you a good leverage in dogfighting especially, or climbing rate. It also helps a lot in the landing – when the trim is all the way up. I don't know how this works, but you might have to have a free wheel or lever in your setup controls (joystick / levers).

The Tripehound is not an easy crate to fly, especially with the trim adjustment, but if you master it, the only setback you have is the poor fire rate. Other than that, you have a slight advantage against its counterparts; which means, you are in good hands if you know what you are doing. It is a compromise in between agility / speed and fire rate. It is more or less like the clash in between the N11 and the Halb D.II.

But I tend to single out my kills with the Tripe, because it tends to take some time to down an enemy with a single gun. So, if you don't take care, then you are most probably going to be mugged. Not to mention that with an Albatros with twin guns and the fire rate they have, in one burst it shreds you like paper shredder. Which means, two savvy Albatroses can make quick work of you.

Note: someone gave this tip of the trim wheel at Aces Falling, but I don't remeber who.
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#15 Pirato

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 11:10

Talk about red hot action! Thanks for the video Sid! I'll definitely have to get an aldis. ;) Are there any other planes you and Pirato would reccomended getting the aldis for?
Also, do the lower wing guns on the dolphin reload when the drums run out? Or is there no putting new drums on them?

The Aldis is also very useful on the SE5a. I use the Aldis on the SE5a and the Dolphin. Thats the only 2 Planes I use a Gunsight mods.
You can not reload the Wingguns ,when the Drums are empty they only serve as additional weight.^^

If you use the Aldis on the Dolphin the pilots head sticks out of the top. When you flip the plane over on the ground it will kill the pilot. A work around is to set a snapview as low into the cockpit as it gets that you can use when things go wrong. Just dont release the Snapview ,only when you have ended the flight.
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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#16 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 11:45

Instead of the aldis in dolphin, just sticking the head up and aiming over the little metal thing with watching the tracers is very nice and precise. cockpit perspective in the second half..


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#17 ZachariasX

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 11:51

Instead of the aldis in dolphin, just sticking the head up and aiming over the little metal thing with watching the tracers is very nice and precise. cockpit perspective in the second half..

In your case that probably works best if you stack 5 Dolphins on top of each other and then all firing at the target… Combined firepower :)

Z
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#18 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 12:19

… Are there any other planes you and Pirato would reccomended getting the aldis for?
My personal preference is to use the Aldis with the F2B, S.E.5a, Dolphin, Camel, & N11, but then I just like the look of it.

Image
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#19 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 13:29

You can not reload the Wingguns ,when the Drums are empty they only serve as additional weight.^^

If you use the Aldis on the Dolphin the pilots head sticks out of the top. When you flip the plane over on the ground it will kill the pilot. A work around is to set a snapview as low into the cockpit as it gets that you can use when things go wrong. Just dont release the Snapview ,only when you have ended the flight.
Great advise Pirato, I would second setting up a ducked down head position.


Here's a few tips we came up with on our squad forum when we first started flying the Dolphin.

The Dolphins engine sounds very different, but it actually behaves similarly to the other aircraft, you just have to get used to the new sound clues.

Max (never exceed, even briefly) RPM is 2200, use the simple gauges to start with and fly some practise aerobatics off line. Throttle back a bit (only a little should be sufficient) to keep the engine in limits. In a very steep, prolonged dive, you can also use the rudder to side slip (true of all the aircraft) to keep the engine RPM within limits even if the throttle at minimum (idle setting) won't contain the engine revs.

The RPM gauge is fairly prominent, so it's not too much of a chore to move on to flying without the simple gauges.

Image

Having spent a bit of time learning the new sound clues, you'll find you need to look at the RPM gauge less and less, in a hard turn fight (even doing loops) you'll find the RPM will stay within limits without throttling back as long as you're pulling 'G', but if you relax the pull with the nose below the horizon the RPM will quickly runaway, be prepared to throttle back a bit.


I like the Aldis Sight and Temperature Gauge (three quarters open works well for the radiator in most situations, but note it's a big Radiator, Full open/Full closed change the engine temp rapidly, use with caution).

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I love the fire power with the added lower wings mounted Lewis guns, but the ammo is limited with them. If you have a two stage trigger, set the first stage to fire just the "nose guns", and the second stage to fire "Forward-facing Guns".

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For best climb/glide speed I use 70mph.

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Note the pitch attitude to achieve this (i.e. where the horizon is in relation to the cockpit), all my flying is done by flying a 'pitch attitude' and only the very occasional glance at the ASI just to check the speed now and again.

The Dolphin is faster than the Camel in level flight (about 130mph at 2200rpm against the Camels 115mph at 1500rpm), trickle the throttle back to go faster in a dive (watch the engine temp which will quickly cool in sustained dives) also watch the G you use pulling out of a high speed dive (the Dolphin sheds it's wings with less G than the Camel here).

At slower speeds (in a turn fight) the Dolphin can safely pull a surprising amount of G, but keep your turn fights more loop orientated (flat turning bleeds it's energy rapidly) and pull the hardest in the bottom of the loops (relax slightly over the top of loops to avoid entering a spin).

Spins are deadly and take a great deal of getting out of once entered!

Note the unusual recover technique: Stick BACK and into the spin, then hold with opposite rudder.

Landing: note the high position of the pilots head.

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The outside view doesn't reflect the pilots moveable (up/down) head position, so if like me you have your default head position aliened with the Aldis Sight, the top of your head will be well above the wing. This is a major problem if you flip the Dolphin on landing as you'll be decapitated instantly!

Approach speed should be around 70mph bleeding off to about 60mph as you come over the hedge. Hold the aircraft off to aim for a three point touchdown (after touchdown hold full back elevator until stopped).

Note again the pitch attitude your aiming for at touchdown.

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The horizon MUST be below the bar the Aldis is mounted on, if it's not, you're too flat (fast) and I guarantee you will flip.

With a bit of practice the Dolphin lands just fine, but I highly recommend setting up a 'Ducked' view. Lower one of your view keys to its lowest head position and save, then map this to a joystick/throttle button.

Image

If you do flip on landing (we all get it wrong sometimes) quickly hold the lowered view 'Duck' button overriding the Track IR (DO NOT RELEASE THIS VIEW UNTIL AFTER EXITING PLANE IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR HEAD!).

Crash survivability is not good in the Dolphin (unlike the Camel & Dr.I where you can survive (exit plane severely injured but not dead) even after spinning all the way to the ground). Don't fly the Dolphin if building a kill streak is you're main aim.

As for fighting the Dolphin, it's not a zoom & boomer, it a turn fighter, but don't get suckered into level turning. Stick to loops, barrel rolls, high and low yoyos. You'll obviously want a to get started in the Dolphin with a little altitude to play with, but it's a surprisingly efficient little fighter down on the deck with a bit of practice.

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#20 HotleadColdfeet

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 20:02

Wow Sid, that was very comprehensive! Thanks for sharing! Do you have any other aircraft guides like that?
Also thank you to all the other pilots who have answered this thread. Every piece of information helps, mates. :)
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#21 HotleadColdfeet

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 23:10

I tried the Dolphin today and watched with appreciative awe as an AI Albatross simply fell to pieces as soon as I put him in the aldis and pulled the trigger. :x :lol: But I cannot figure out how to assign a button causing my pilot to duck and override Track IR. I did an experimental flip-over landing and got exactly what you guys said I would lol. :xx:

I also tried using the trim on the Tripe and Strutter B. What positions work best for trim settings? I assume full up or down isn't best for dogfighting, but I could be wrong. ;)
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#22 ZachariasX

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 17:45

I tried the Dolphin today and watched with appreciative awe as an AI Albatross simply fell to pieces as soon as I put him in the aldis and pulled the trigger. :x :lol: But I cannot figure out how to assign a button causing my pilot to duck and override Track IR. I did an experimental flip-over landing and got exactly what you guys said I would lol. :xx:

I also tried using the trim on the Tripe and Strutter B. What positions work best for trim settings? I assume full up or down isn't best for dogfighting, but I could be wrong. ;)

Best assign two buttons on your stick (I use the upper 4-way switch on my X52) or two other prominent buttons that you can use. Trim is a very sensible thing on any airplane. You use it gradually and not in the extreme positions.

A plane faster than the speed it is trimmed for (they all are trimmed at some speed) will nose up; slower, it will nose down. It takes force to counter that on the stick. These forces, depending on speed or aircraft type, can be considerable. What you do with the trim, you set your "neutral" position of the stick (this may be considerably forward at higher speed) to match the speed. A trimmed aircraft flys level what you take hands off the stick at your desired airspeed.

So here is how you do it:

"Fly with the main controls, establish attitude…..THEN do your trimming."

You move yor trim until the attitude (not aLtitude) is held by the plane hands off. Thus, trim has nothing to do with combat.

Z
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#23 HotleadColdfeet

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 01:32

Ah…thanks Zach! Your answer cleared things up for me. I'll probably be posting more questions of mine as they come up. One and a half years I've been flying in ROF multiplayer and it still astounds me how much I have to learn. But that's half the fun. ;) Thanks again. :S!:
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#24 JoeCrow

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 06:31

Ah…thanks Zach! Your answer cleared things up for me. I'll probably be posting more questions of mine as they come up. One and a half years I've been flying in ROF multiplayer and it still astounds me how much I have to learn. But that's half the fun. ;) Thanks again. :S!:

That's good advice from Zach.

The in-flight trimwheel is something you need to play around with to discover its true potential. Personally, I like to trim for a hands-off shallow climb at full throttle in combat situations but that's a matter of choice. It's also great for maintaining best climb-speed during those long climbs to altitude, accurate climbing-turns, flying through cloud and more. Flying with corrected trim feels like flying a whole new aircraft.

Here's a rough guide to using elevator trim in-flight. It works equally well in ROF.




Cheers.
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#25 ZachariasX

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:09

edit: double post
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#26 ZachariasX

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:10

Ah…thanks Zach! Your answer cleared things up for me. I'll probably be posting more questions of mine as they come up. One and a half years I've been flying in ROF multiplayer and it still astounds me how much I have to learn. But that's half the fun. ;) Thanks again. :S!:

That's good advice from Zach.

The in-flight trimwheel is something you need to play around with to discover its true potential. Personally, I like to trim for a hands-off shallow climb at full throttle in combat situations but that's a matter of choice. It's also great for maintaining best climb-speed during those long climbs to altitude, accurate climbing-turns, flying through cloud and more. Flying with corrected trim feels like flying a whole new aircraft.

Here's a rough guide to using elevator trim in-flight. It works equally well in ROF.

It is of note that in a sim trimming is much more difficult than in a real airplane. In a real aircraft you have pressure on the stick or yoke when your speed and attitude doesn't correspont to the current trim. There you just turn the trim wheel until there is no more pressure on the control. That achieved, the bus will fly 'hands off'. In RoF, unlike a real aircraft, the stick remains centered. So you have to push or pull while working with the trim bringing the sick to center position whlie the aircraft holds attitude.

Needless to say it's tedious thing to do. I've been shot down by the old hands in AF while trimming… That can happen… ;)

Z
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#27 JoeCrow

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 19:48

Needless to say it's tedious thing to do. I've been shot down by the old hands in AF while trimming… That can happen… ;)

Z

Yep, It has its place. You wouldn't want to try trimming a turnfighter, or anywhere near EA. OTOH, it's a boon to recons and level-bombers and you can find your 'sweet spot' on the fly without the guesswork of constantly altering curves.
Cheers.
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#28 Pirato

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 18:03

I find the Elevator trim very useful on the SE5a. I use it all the time during flight,it helps a lot to maintain climbing angle and at high speed I usually trim it all down so I get close to level flight. Also it helps to counter the pitching up behavior when wounded.

I have set the response setting in pitch at about 35% down from center. Otherwise the SE5a pitches up by a lot even with full trim set down.
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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#29 JoeCrow

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 19:43

I find the Elevator trim very useful on the SE5a. I use it all the time during flight,it helps a lot to maintain climbing angle and at high speed I usually trim it all down so I get close to level flight. Also it helps to counter the pitching up behavior when wounded.

I have set the response setting in pitch at about 35% down from center. Otherwise the SE5a pitches up by a lot even with full trim set down.

I have the Se5a trimwheel assigned to a hatswitch on the throttle. It also works particularly well for setting up attack curves. Initially, I had it assigned to a wheel axis but the restricted range of axis movement was much too coarse for a trimwheel. With the hatswitch I find myself using it regularly and without thinking; just by using a nudge or two with the thumb.
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#30 J2_Marx

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 09:14

Often i hear people scream they can't cope with the Camel. The Camel is a great plane and it took me seriously almost a year NOT to spin down to my death every time i try to turn.

The Camel has the nasty habbit to snap in a tight left and right turn and then plummith down to earth in a spin you can't almost get out of but…..I've been working with the responses and this is the setup i use and in the time i've been using it in dogfight servers the amount of spins has reduced signifficantly.

I'm not saying this is the best setup, but for me its working and i use a simple twisstick the Logitech extreme 3D (still dont know what is so extreme about it but what the hell :mrgreen: )

Image

this is the rollrate, with this setup the camel flies fairly straight

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Here you see the pitchrate i use, notice that i decreased "pitch up" with 10%……this helps avoiding spins!

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Here you see my yawrate, notice i made a small 0-point in the middle. It helps me to get the camel more stable when firing at my opponent. Also the amount of fuel is about 15% which is enough for me because normally i don't live long enough to get without fuel :lol:

I still suck at dogfighting but with these rates i get some succes and even get an occasional DR1 :x :S!:
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#31 HotleadColdfeet

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 15:17

Wow thanks Marx! I'll try applying those curves right away! I use a Logetich Extreme 3D too. Great little stick. ;)
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#32 J2_Marx

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 08:17

Wow thanks Marx! I'll try applying those curves right away! I use a Logetich Extreme 3D too. Great little stick. ;)

These rates you can also use in like the Sopw. Pup and tri-plane with some small adjustments here and there. Just play with the responses untill you are happy with them.

I have the logitech stick now for almost 3 years. Had to clean it twice untill i thought it gave up about 2 months ago and gave me the midlle finger :mrgreen: . Bought a Thrustmaster Hotas twiststick but my average killrate went downhill like ski-diver without a parachute, i couldn't hit squad with it. So i took the logitech apart again, cleaned it again and now its working good for a month now.

Maybe write Santaclaus a letter to give me a new one :mrgreen: :S!:

Marc
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