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Elevator Problem - Joystick or Something Else?


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#1 20m

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 21:32

I just noticed a weird problem with the elevators on my S.E.5a, which is probably one of the reasons I've been crashing so much. They're tilted up by default. I checked the joystick settings in-game, and when I release it it registers as being in the center, as it should. But when I look at the elevator, it's as if I'm pulling back on the stick. I tried releasing all controls in flight, and the plane swooped up and stalled.

Is this a problem with my joystick, or a known fault with the game, or something I can fix?
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#2 O_Rod

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 21:41

is it just the SE5a?
you can adjust the trim on that plane, perhaps you have inadvertently set the trim wrong.
Check your trim curves.
Just my thoughts on this.
Cheers
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#3 SeaW0lf

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 22:05

Did you calibrate the joystick with its software? What brand?
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#4 JoeCrow

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 22:43

It's all about elevator trim.

Fortunately, the Se5a is equipped with a fully functional, in-flight trimwheel, which is kind of complicated to explain but this Video should do it. Forget about all the modern, electronic stuff in the vid because the principle of trim is always exactly the same:

The Se5a is a joy to fly when you feel comfortable with using the in-flight trimwheel.

The joystick (not the aircraft) can also be trimmed for level-flight at your chosen airspeed by calibrating the control curves as explained by Seaw0lf above. See also the manual. riseofflight.com/en/community/usefulmaterials

If you run into any problems please ask again.

Cheers.
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#5 20m

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 00:35

This is on every plane (or at least, every plane I've checked thus far). I hadn't thought to check others, not knowing about the trim feature (well, I knew what trim was, but didn't know I could alter it on the S.E.5a). Whatever this is, it's completely different. The elevator is in a slight up position, and I have to counter it by pushing the joystick forward. The trim changes the angle of the entire rear stabilizer.

My joystick is a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, and I calibrated it in Windows (no special software, just plugged it in). It registers correctly in the Response tab of the options in-game. When I'm not touching the stick, the little indicator on the response curve is dead center, where it should be. So either the joystick is sending false inputs in spite of this, or something weird is going on in the game.
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#6 JoeCrow

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 04:18

A picture paints a thousand words:
Attached File  Se5a trim.JPG   59.15KB   444 downloads

This will trim the joystick for level flight at about cruise-speed, so full-throttle will give best climb-speed with hands off the stick but the choice is yours (some joysticks may vary slightly). Additionally, the Se5a built-in trimwheel can be assigned to any buttons if you want to re-trim when in-flight…say hands-off level flight at cruise-speed, full-throttle, landing-speed etc. Play about with the trimwheel - it's a great feature.

I hope that helps.
Cheers.
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#7 20m

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 05:41

So it's normal for the elevators to be tilted up when the stick is at rest? It's clearly visible, and when I put it in auto-level flight mode, the elevator goes flat, in line with the rest of the stabilizer.

This isn't having to trim down or push the stick forward to counteract the effect of high throttle, by the way. Pictures may help:

Image

Note the upward angle of the elevator.

Image

That's in auto-leveled flight, with the elevator either straight or very slightly canted downward to compensate for the wide-open throttle.

Image

And that's what happens when I release the stick. The plane continued pitching up, stalled, then pulled out, pitched back up, stalled again, and repeated the process until it ran afoul of some trees.

I can't imagine these planes were all designed to have their elevators titled up when the stick is centered, but was the game designed that way?
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#8 JoeCrow

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 06:40

You are right, it's not normal. But if you think about it the cause is the joystick and not the plane. These planes did not have a sprung-joystick 'center-point' at all and in the case of the Se5a the elevator is asymmetrical (more 'up' travel than 'down' travel). Unfortunately, your joystick does have a fixed center-point and you are stuck with it. To get the proper range of elevator movement you are going to have to make the joystick center-point asymmetrical to match the aircraft. IRL the elevator would have dropped downwards when the aircraft was parked and all air-pressure removed from the control surface but our artificially-sprung PC joysticks force the elevator to remain in an abnormal position when parked. So, if you removed the springs from your joystick you would be much closer to reality, but you would also need to find another way to simulate air-pressure on the control surface (force-feedback).
BTW: Some joysticks have a built in trimwheel fitted to overcome the asymmetrical problem. This trims the joystick to the plane and not the plane to the joystick. The alternative is to adjust the joystick response curve in the game (I've just read that again - does it make sense?).
:lol:
Cheers.
EDIT: In case you are wondering, some aircraft have asymmetrical elevator because they are capable of withstanding far higher positive-G loading than negative-G, usually by a ratio of about 2:1. It helps prevent the pilot accidentally ripping the wings off under negative-G.
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#9 20m

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 13:20

OK, so, thinking that you must be right and it's down to this joystick being odd, I tried something I should have thought of immediately: I disconnected the joystick and then fired up ROF. No change. Even with only the keyboard for control, every plane is in climb-to-stall mode by default. Out of curiosity, I tried to fly by keyboard alone, and it's impossible this way. Since the keyboard doesn't record proportional input, I have to keep pressing the down arrow for a couple of seconds, then releasing it, then pressing it, releasing it, etc. in order to keep from entering a terminal stall-loop. Level flight is impossible, only constant jerking up and down. Yet I know people do fly by keyboard, which leads me to suspect this problem may be unique or unusual.

Does ROF hate me in particular? How do I placate it? Would it accept a burnt offering of a model F-14? There's a hobby shop not far from me, I could go pick one up. "Accept the sacrifice of this your unworthy successor, and admit me to the paradise of wood-and-canvas aviation!"

Seriously, though, it being broke, how do I fix it?
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#10 =HillBilly=

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 13:39

20m Please give us a screen shot of your SE5a response in options, with joystick in neutral,(centered).
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#11 20m

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 14:03

Image

Note that at rest everything registers as dead center, where it should be. If the joystick registered as being pulled back a bit when it was at rest, I'd be annoyed, but not confused. :)

Oh, and it bears repeating that all planes have this problem, not just the S.E.5a.
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#12 ChiefRedCloud

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 14:27

I'll have to wait till I get home to check mine (curves) but I know this is most likely the problem as I had the same problem. And insure it's 'just' for your SE5 and not for 'ALL' planes then 'APPLY' twice and save it.

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#13 20m

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 16:33

But that's the thing – every plane has the exact same problem. The response curve hasn't caused the problem; it's the same on the default S-curve (which I'm using now) or the straight linear curve (which was too twitchy for my meager joystick skills). It's the same with the joystick disconnected and only keyboard controls. It's like this for every plane. I only noticed it first on the S.E.5a because I'd started flying that because it's supposed to be so stable and easy-to-fly, and I still found myself stalling out of every maneuver. So I looked at the control surfaces to see if something had gone wrong, and that's how I wound up here.

Since there's nothing particularly unusual about my ROF setup, more and more I'm wondering whether this might be intentional. I know that WWI-era planes had a tendency to climb; I can recall reading a sort of embellished diary of the war published by an aviator, and he wrote of the pain in his hand and arm from the constant forward pressure he had to apply to the stick in order to maintain level flight. He was describing the need to keep the elevator angled down in order to counteract the tendency to climb, but this makes me wonder. Is it possible the developers had trouble getting the flight physics model to replicate this property, so they took a shortcut and set all planes to have their elevators tilted up by default? That way sim-pilots would have to push the stick forward all the time, just like the real pilots did – same effect, different cause.

Or is my ROF just uniquely and bizarrely banjaxed, and I should pick up that sacrificial F-14 model while I'm out today?
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#14 Surfimp

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 16:47

Image

Note that at rest everything registers as dead center, where it should be. If the joystick registered as being pulled back a bit when it was at rest, I'd be annoyed, but not confused. :)

Oh, and it bears repeating that all planes have this problem, not just the S.E.5a.

Have you tried pressing "Defaults"?

The elevator response curve you have looks like a normal S Curve that would have been applied by the user.

Anyways, I am not at my RoF machine right now, but that screenshot is not what any of the default pitch curves look like, if I am not mistaken. They are custom curves, different from the straight linear curve and different from the S curve.

With the way the planes are rigged, having the elevator center at x=0 will result in constant climb, as you have noted; that is not intentional, and the default curves all have the x value below zero to compensate somewhat. You can use the "Adjust Curve" arrows to tweak it further to your desires (i.e. in my case, I like to have no forward stick pressure in level flight).

TLDR:
So you might try pressing the Defaults button to see if you get different curves.
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#15 =HillBilly=

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 17:01

20m May suggest you read the manual starting on page 18, RESPONSES. You find that you have to adjust responses for each plane.
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#16 JoeCrow

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 17:14

20m, there is something wrong here.
Can you post a screenshot of your responses page and select 'Se5a' in the L/H column (refer to my earlier screenshot). If the 'use all-planes responses for this plane' box is not unchecked that is the answer. To save any changes you make you must click on 'apply'. We'll get to the bottom of it somehow.
Cheers.
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#17 20m

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 17:25

If I uncheck "use all-planes responses," nothing changes. The graph looks exactly the same. It is the default – I haven't changed anything, all I did was choose S-curve instead of linear. And it doesn't matter whether I use linear or S-curve, the problem is still there, for every plane, with or without joystick control.
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#18 =HillBilly=

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 17:46

Could someone make a video of the responses being adjusted so he can understand how to do it.
Never mind I found one.
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#19 20m

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 23:52

Thanks, much appreciated… but the problem isn't that I don't understand response curves. The problem doesn't have anything to do with response curves. All of the settings are on the defaults, except that I had to change the throttle because it was by default set to an axis my joystick doesn't have. That's the only control setting I have changed. I haven't entered any response curves, and I have the same problem with every plane regardless of whether I use response curves or a joystick.

The problem is: every single plane has its elevators pitched upward when all controls are at rest. This is not normal for any real aircraft or any simulation I've ever tried.

EDIT: Re-watching the video above (I'd already seen it, as I've been following Requiem's channel), I noticed that his plane does not have this problem with the elevators. All of mine do, with the exact same linear response curve he has in place at the beginning of the film. So at least this confirms with video evidence that this is not normal. Sooo… yay? ROF hates me, specifically? :shock:
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#20 =HillBilly=

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 00:22

What ever!
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#21 ChiefRedCloud

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 00:43

Bad Mocho huh 20m … sorry to hear that …. anyone know of any flying Witch Doctors?

Chief
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#22 Panthercules

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 00:57

Sooo… yay? ROF hates me, specifically? :shock:


That's the only thing I can figure here. I went in and checked just to be sure, and my SE5a (like my other planes) displays "normal" elevator behavior - no pitching up here:

hands off after several seconds, responses for all planes set to defaults with (default) S curves (Logitech Force3D Pro):
Image

As far as I can remember, I have never altered the trim on the SE5a (I certainly haven't done it recently - can't swear for sure that I didn't do it when they first introduced the feature and have since forgotten about it).

Before you try sacrificing that F14, maybe try borrowing a friend's joystick and seeing if that has any effect. And of course try doing a "recovery" if you haven't done one recently.

This is too weird and localized for there not to be a simple solution - just gotta keep trying till you find it.

Good luck!
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#23 Surfimp

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:06

If I uncheck "use all-planes responses," nothing changes. The graph looks exactly the same. It is the default – I haven't changed anything, all I did was choose S-curve instead of linear. And it doesn't matter whether I use linear or S-curve, the problem is still there, for every plane, with or without joystick control.

I have a box-stock installation of RoF on one of my computers. When I get home, I'll check and see what the default SE5a pitch curve looks like. I am 99.999% certain it is neither a linear nor a S curve, but a custom curve.

My hypothesis is that somehow, you have overwritten the default response curves for your plane with this S curve.

If you could try clicking "Defaults" and then clicking "Apply" we could know for certain, but I will try to verify on my end as well.
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#24 20m

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:38

Panthercules, I've just done my third recovery, and third time wasn't the charm. Good suggestion, though, one never knows what has or hasn't been tried. And it's the same with no joystick, so even if I could borrow one it probably wouldn't help. I intend to get a Thrustmaster 16000m, so eventually I'll find out whether that makes a difference. I suspect not, since joystick or no joystick makes no difference.

Surfimp, everything is set to the defaults. The only thing that changes when I click Default and then Apply is that the curve goes back to linear. The elevator problem is still there.

By the way, thank you all very much for continuing to help me with this problem. I really do appreciate it.
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#25 Panthercules

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:47

Just for grins, try D/L'ing this little JSGME-ready package and activating it with JSGME (it will put a copy of my response file in your game folders):

http://www.mediafire.com/download/9urkzneiycoaf29/Panther's_Responses_for_JSGME.zip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mediafire.../download/9urkz … _JSGME.zip

Then, go into your options/response screen and import/load the file called "Panther's Response File", hit "Apply" and then go fly your SE5a and see if it's still hosed up.
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#26 Scott_Steiner

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 03:40

Okay, let's clear some things up… Some things that have already tried to have been said, with screenshots words and videos..

1) An old biplane doesn't have a symmetrical from center pitch axis. This meaning that the plane will have more 'throw' or range of motion to the rear or 'nose-up' range than the forward or 'nose-down' motion that you can use on the stick.

2) This means that a joystick you buy online or at the store that has equal range for and aft of center, will not match what an old biplane does or what Rise of Flights tries to emulate.

If you center your joystick with the spring it will actually be by default, in the pulled back part of the biplanes pitch axis, causing it to not have neutral elevator ever with your hands off the stick unless you modify it somehow, with trim or whatever.

Just because you unplug your joystick and use keys does not change the concept of what is going on, nor change how the pitch axis works by default.

3) Why does ROF have this method and how do you get around it if you so want to?

If we have joysticks that center in their symmetrical center but are flying an aircraft that centers in the lower 3rd part of the axis range.. we are going to have to have some trade offs any way you look at it.

The first trade off is the default, what you are witnessing. To have a completely linear curve as posted in this thread (a straight line from the top right of the curves box to the bottom left in the options menu) will cause the plane to pitch up by itself as its constantly being centered behind its actual center point, i.e. into a climb.

The advantages of this method are that your responses will always be 1:1, you move the stick 1mm it will move it in game the same corresponding amount no matter if you have the joystick pushed all the way forward or all the way back, it will always have the same sensitivity and the virtual joystick counterpart will respond in the same way.

I do think this is a fairly poor trade off, as you want to lower pilot workload and not be adjust your planes attitude constantly to make up for having to hold the stick in one spot.. It's not an efficient way to get where you are going or the altitude you want, you can easily lose performance with this method unless you have a very steady hand.

*** it should be of worthy note *** that there are joysticks without springs called Force Feedback joysticks. These sticks will automatically center based on the forced applied to the stick, so if the air over the elevator tells the elevator to be in a neutral position and the stick corresponds to the forces applied to it in game, the force feedback motor will automatically center the stick in its natural aft position and this problem is solved.. Or more like it never comes up as an issue with a force feed joystick, it will center where it is supposed to, matching the in-game aircraft and fly normally.

Trim wheel was mentioned and can fix this center point, but we didn't always have trim wheels. In fact, we didn't have trim wheels for a number of years so the mention of fixing it by adjusting trim is not the answer to an underlaying problem that has been around since day 1.

The second way to address the problem of an asymmetrical joystick axis is to create a curve. I think this is the most ideal way for a non-ff elevator axis to be used. Basically it looks like Joe Crows post on the first page where the 0% dot is moved down close to the -45% grid area. What this is physically doing is moving the center point of your stick down to match the aft position on the virtual stick, so in theory your stick now corresponds to the biplanes stick and is in the farther back position even though you still have a symmetrically springed stick.

The problem with this method is that once you hit your new center point the axis has a much sharper curve or angle from then on to make up for the rest of the axis until it reaches full deflection. Where you had a nice 1:1 sensitivity in the top range, the bottom 60 percent of your sticks throw is now close to a 3rd more sensitive, it responds differently and noticeably quicker in that part.

To help get around this I typically extend the line past this -45% center point as straight as possible to avoid changing the linearity until I am very close to the bottom of the curve, then I will add some points to round it out sharply.. Yes you make that last part of the 'nose-down' pitch a lot more sensitive, but you don't use that part of the elevator axis very much and usually when you do, you don't have to be all that accurate.. You are usually going to be slamming your stick full nose down into a dive and don't often hover around 80 percent full down stick. I think it is a worthy trade off.

Here is a diagram of what one my typical curves looks like:

Image

The 3rd option is to have a linear curve with the -45% area being the center as the previous method but instead of making it curve you just drop it off before the bottom left corner. This means that you have a 1:1 ratio throughout the whole stick range but you don't get to use the full throw of the stick.. You will be at full forward motion in your virtual machine while the joystick on your desk still has 20 percent motion left that isn't doing anything more and isn't being used.

Obviously the trade off is that it's weird to have a dead zone at the forward end of your stick where nothing is being utilized and with less range. Also your joystick is more sensitive but less accurate, as you are doing more work in a shorter axis distance. This is not an ideal trade off in my opinion.

I hope this helps clear things up.. In summary, you have to find a way to get around the physical aircraft having an asymmetrical pitch axis and find a way that is best for you. This shows up if you use keys a stick or gamepad, it is inherent in the game and is not an issue at with the controller.

To help further your understanding, check out this thread:

riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2564

*** ALSO OF NOTE *** THE IMAGE THAT YOU POSTED AT THE TOP OF PAGE 2 HAS AN S-CURVE APPLIED TO IT TO "SMOOTH OUT THE DEAD ZONE" AREA, IT IS NOT THE DEFAULT LINEAR LINE CURVE THAT COMES WITH THE GAME AND USING AN S-CURVE LIKE THAT ON THE ELEVATOR AXIS WILL JUST MAKE THE PROBLEM WORSE AS YOU ARE ARE "NUMBING" THE NEUTRAL STICK AREA AND JUST MAKING YOU HAVE TO PULL BACK ON THE STICK EVEN MORE, ITS ABSOLUTE GARBAGE. THANKYOU AND HAVE A PLEASANT EVENING.
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#27 =HillBilly=

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:14

Scott and others, After 3 pages and he has not grasped the concept that you have to adjust the responses, posting 19 paragraphs will not help!
One of two things, he will listen to what he is being told or give it up.
I know this sounds harsh but some times you just have to get their attention.
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#28 20m

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 13:35

First, thank you, Scott Steiner, for that very detailed explanation of response curves. I genuinely appreciate that you spent so much time and effort to make these matters clear. Unfortunately, I'm afraid you were proceeding from a misconception, namely that I did not already understand this and had not already taken the time to learn about response curves.

To address what =NFF=HillBilly said, I am not failing or refusing to comprehend the situation. While I may be a poor flight sim pilot, I have a fair amount of experience with computer games, I have flown real airplanes (though only at the student level), and I am somewhat acquainted with WWI aircraft. I am not working from a position of complete ignorance. For the record, I expected the asymmetric pitch range you described, and I expected to have to keep the stick forward to counteract the plane's natural tendency to climb under high throttle. I thank you for explaining it, though, as you had no way of knowing this. By the way, it would be easy to implement the asymmetric pitch range by simply curtailing the distance the elevators may travel downward. And as the elevators on my ROF aircraft don't pitch as far down as they do up, it would seem that's precisely what the developers did.

Even so, I would be perfectly willing to accept that the developers of ROF had taken a shortcut and had chosen to model the properties you described by permanently tweaking the elevators upward, instead of building an accurate flight model, if not for one little issue: no one else has this problem.

I invite you to test this for yourself, as Panthercules did, or simply look at my screenshots of the tail of my aircraft, and then look at his. With no custom response curve, the elevator on Panthercules' plane sits straight and level with the horizontal stabilizer. To get my elevator level, I have to push the joystick forward 50% of its maximum range. This is the same game, the same aircraft, the same response curves (default S-curve), but two completely different elevator angles.

By the way, to clarify two minor points: first, "default S-curve" is not meant to indicate that the game uses an S-curve by default. It uses a linear response curve by default, which I did indicate in several posts. But if you click the S-curve button, you get the curve I was showing as the default S-curve. I was using the word "default" to indicate that I had done no customizing other than clicking that one button. Second, as I had already stated, this problem was neither created nor addressed by the trim function, which turns the entire horizontal stabilizer, not the elevator.

Finally, I must reiterate: other people do not have this problem. This is why I am pursuing it here. If Panthercules had fired up ROF, set the response curve to linear, and said, hey, my elevator's pointing up, too, I would have thanked him for checking and dropped the issue. Instead, his aircraft behave as they should: with all controls centered, all control surfaces are flat. On my aircraft, with all controls centered, the elevators pitch up. Since this is not the same game behavior others see, I consider it to be a problem.

Do your elevators pitch up with all controls centered and a linear response curve, matching my screenshot? Or are they level, matching Panthercules' screenshot?
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#29 =HillBilly=

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 13:58

My SE5a elevator and response, adjust the responce!Attached File  SE5a.jpg   240.12KB   195 downloads If this is about FMs I'm done with IT!
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#30 Panthercules

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 14:05

I had forgotten the stuff Scott wrote about the FFB stick effect (thanks for setting it all out so clearly Scott), and my stick is a FFB stick, so maybe that has something to do with why mine works OK as shown in my screenshot? Unfortunately, I do not have a non-FFB stick handy to test with, so I can't compare them.

I guess I could try it without a stick at all - I'll give that a shot later today when I get a chance.
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#31 JoeCrow

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 19:39

Finally, I must reiterate: other people do not have this problem. This is why I am pursuing it here. If Panthercules had fired up ROF, set the response curve to linear, and said, hey, my elevator's pointing up, too, I would have thanked him for checking and dropped the issue. Instead, his aircraft behave as they should: with all controls centered, all control surfaces are flat. On my aircraft, with all controls centered, the elevators pitch up. Since this is not the same game behavior others see, I consider it to be a problem.

Do your elevators pitch up with all controls centered and a linear response curve, matching my screenshot? Or are they level, matching Panthercules' screenshot?

This is exactly where you are going wrong. Other people would have the same problem (including me) if they didn't do one of two things.

a: Adjust the default 'all planes' pitch response curve to suit your joystick (and 'apply' it) and then use your new 'all planes' default for all of the aircraft (that is what it is for) or…

b: Select each aircraft individually and create a separate pitch response profile for each individual plane.

Why is this so? Because there are many different joysticks and controllers. For example:

Panther uses an FFB joystick which, unlike yours, has no fixed central position and its position relative to the elevator is not linear (force feedback).

The choice is now yours. There is nothing more to add.

Cheers.
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#32 FourSpeed

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 20:25

Intersting thread and a seemingly weird problem.

I use a Logitech 3D Pro and I don't set any response curves at all as I prefer to fly
all the planes as they are, fresh from the factory, so to speak. icon_e_wink.gif

All the planes are tail heavy for me and the SE5 distinctly so. That said, I DO use it's
trimwheel to dial it down to a manageable forward stick pressure for level flight.

Still, I've not actually ever looked at the elevator from the side view, so you've
gotten me curious as to whether it's neutral for me or not.

I'll take a look at it when I get home tonight and update this post with what I find.

UPDATE:

Ok, I looked at my SE5a on the ground immediately after spawning at the airfield, and
it looks exactly like yours - the elevator is canted up slightly. So, I'd say that's
normal for that particular aircraft.

Here's the pic of mine:

Attached File  SE5-Sideview.jpg   291.1KB   219 downloads


Regards,
4 icon_e_salute.gif!–>!–>!–>!–>


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#33 20m

20m
  • Posts: 73

Posted 19 September 2014 - 20:46

This is exactly where you are going wrong. Other people would have the same problem (including me) if they didn't do one of two things.

Thank you. This is the first time anyone in this thread has specifically stated that the elevator is tilted up when the stick is centered by design, and that everyone would see this behavior without a custom response curve.

It doesn't solve the problem to say that I could fix it with response curves when people are also saying they've never seen such a thing, and I even have a screenshot of level flight with a linear response curve and perfectly level elevators. I must say, I was beginning to get a tad irritated by the assumption that I was being willfully obtuse. I was attempting to get at the root of the problem. Thank you for providing the crucial missing piece of the puzzle.

Perhaps this is because I don't know enough about game design, but it seems to me that this is a fairly poorly thought out approach. Regardless of how far the stick can travel in each direction, a centered stick equals level control surfaces on any airplane that is working properly. This strikes me as akin to modeling the Sopwith Camel's turn characteristics by setting it so that the ailerons are angled for a right bank when the stick is centered. A bit baffling but, since I finally have confirmation that it's normal behavior, no longer a concern.

Thanks again.
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#34 ciki

ciki
  • Posts: 407

Posted 19 September 2014 - 22:37

i had the same problem with the se5 until i trimmed her down. wouldn't recover from a spin ever
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#35 Scott_Steiner

Scott_Steiner
  • Posts: 789
  • LocationWisconsin, USA

Posted 20 September 2014 - 08:52

As mentioned, Panthercules is using a force feedback stick so at rest it will center properly and look level in a screenshot of the tail section where a regular spring centering joystick will not. It is apples and oranges at that point.
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#36 20m

20m
  • Posts: 73

Posted 20 September 2014 - 17:30

OK, I don't know whether this is part of the same issue, but I'm having more control-related problems. I've set up a custom response curve so that the center joystick position is actually -35%, which puts the elevator level. But I'm still having problems with basic flight. Supposedly the S.E.5a is a fighter that depends on speed and vertical maneuvers, rather than turning. But I can barely get it up to 100 mph, and it tries to stall the moment I go into a steep climb. I cannot perform a loop, even if I dive first. I can't strafe the way Requiem's video recommends, performing half a Cuban 8 to set up the next pass. I can turn, but not in a steep bank.

I double-checked, and the throttle is the plain linear default, and is registering 100% when at maximum. Any ideas what might be wrong?

Again, thanks for helping.
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#37 ciki

ciki
  • Posts: 407

Posted 20 September 2014 - 22:48

it's your controls or the cuves - it's the curves ! The se5 is a bit tricky to roll and needs coordinated flight. rudder to enter into a turn, but it's pretty fast and it's even great at speeds just above stall speed. I molested her extremely at low speeds.





this one is 5mph above stall speed.

take a look at this thread:

riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=351&t=41614

She's a fast RE8 :) try her. Best aircraft in RoF
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#38 20m

20m
  • Posts: 73

Posted 21 September 2014 - 00:50

OK, thanks… presumably we're back to me not knowing what I'm doing. :) At least I can cure that, eventually.
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#39 3uster3oo

3uster3oo
  • Member
  • Posts: 18

Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:01

I noticed this after the last patch, been flying with default settings for years. After patch every planes wants to go straight up, I have 3 joysticks same on all, so looks like a game bug to me. :(
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#40 J5_Klugermann

J5_Klugermann
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  • LocationChateau Boistrancourt

Posted 04 November 2014 - 19:54

I use a logitech 3d also. All of the planes pitch up with a neutral stick. If you want to level things out somewhat soften the linear curve so it looks like a shallow ellipse. I've done this on the DR1.

For planes with sensitive rudders, elevators use a modified S curve to create a relative dead zone around the center so small hand movements wont jerk the plane around.
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