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How the hell do you fly a Sopwith Camel?


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#121 Gump

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 21:48

i went for some practice in "quick missions" flying the camel against a dr1…
did my plane setup at 40% fuel…finished flight…started again but didn't pay attention to the loadout and the game reset to 100% fuel and 4bombs… but i didn't realize it..
was starting at 6500ft with DR1 higher…can't tell how many times i went thru this mission before i checked the loadout (many), but trying to fly the camel loaded like this was like trying to reason with a menopausal woman. unbelievable how unstable and cantankerous it was. seemed that any attempt to turn it resulted in some kind of twisted objection, followed by the "oh yeah? i'm just gonna spin" resolution.
.
.
moral of story…camel with full loadout is WAY too dangerous. reduce the load (fuel/bombs) if dogfights are suspected.
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#122 ciki

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 22:52

I don't know why she is loaded with bombs as default loadout in the first place…
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#123 ciki

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 01:35

I found a video of landing her a month ago (max fuel). Haven't flown her since. It' not an aircraft I trust. As far as I know the FM of the real Camel was bad as well.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-hxEFuZ8dU
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#124 Demon_

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 01:50

http://www.criticalp...h-Aero-Squadron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.criticalp...com/video/65675 … o-Squadron



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#125 ciki

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 01:56

Great video, Demon !
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#126 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 17:39

Some good months ago :



It is pre 1.026 patch.

ENJOY ;)
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http://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com


#127 Demon_

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 21:53

Wow! Nice dance!
I do a collision when i dance like that. :?
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#128 ST-Zeno

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 18:12

Flying the camel is tricky and needs a lot of practice. i fly it often at the New Wings server and do some kills with it. I think important is a forcefeedback stick so u can feel the moment before stall. dont turn to hard and to fast. Use blib-switch when dive and do turns with high speed. And when u climb be sure not getting to slow otherwise she can stall quickly. Dont use to much rudder. i fly with pedals and much sensitiv. u must feel the plane. My experience is when flying with more fuel then 20 ltr. she is more stable. But anyway she is a lady! so dont treat her! :) :S!:
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#129 ciki

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 20:26

Agree with Zeno. She's more stable with more than 20% fuel. There's one thing I don't get at all: with 20%, 100% fuel, even with bombs loaded I alwasy overshoot the areodrome. She glides and glides. No other plane does that. I don't understand why. Regardless of load I end up touching down at least 50m long.
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#130 SeaW0lf

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 21:02

Agree with Zeno. She's more stable with more than 20% fuel. There's one thing I don't get at all: with 20%, 100% fuel, even with bombs loaded I alwasy overshoot the areodrome. She glides and glides. No other plane does that. I don't understand why. Regardless of load I end up touching down at least 50m long.

The other day I read this account (it might help to understand a bit):

They'd just got the Sopwith Triplane, which I'd never flown before. Previously, I'd flown Pups; we had a Pup in No. 11, and I flew my first solo in a Pup. She was an adorable little thing. Like all the great Sopwiths, she was really a glider with an engine in it, and she'd float forever. The first time I ever took one up, the engine completely blotted out and I had to make a forced landing. I've no idea how long she floated. I chose my field and found that I was going to overshoot it; she floated across that field and she wouldn't come down. We ended up beautifully with the propeller just touching the edge of the end of the next field. She was a sweet thing.

Sir Herbert Thompson
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#131 ciki

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 22:03

Thanks, SeaW0lf, that's exactly what I experienced every time, It explains a lot :)
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#132 SeaW0lf

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:25

Thanks, SeaW0lf, that's exactly what I experienced every time, It explains a lot :)

Sure,

:S!:
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#133 J2_Marx

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 14:19

I fly the Camel a lot and really started to like it. At first she would spin all the time and i really got fed up with that so i tried to fiddle with the responses.

1 thing helped me a lot. I reduced "pitch up" with 10% and used the S-lines. It doesnt really effect the turning but it really reduces the amounts of spinning. I still do once in a while and when high enough i can get her out of it but its way less then it used to be.
Like most pilots said here, be gentle on the rudder, also use S-lines in responses.

Before i forget, I use the Logitech 3D Extreme joystick
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#134 Metaphyzikal

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 06:20

I really do not know. I don't even have to use the rudder, I just go into a right hand turn, and it spins out. It's a nightmare. I thought it was supposed to be a good dogfighting machine, but there's no way I could take on a half way decent German plane and live to tell the tale. I tried everything to get out of these spins, and I couldn't do it. I prefer flying the Albatross and the Fokker DVII and the NIeuport 28, To be honest.


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#135 Plank

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 08:53

Whack off a shed load of "stick back".

(You pull the little dot down and it "stops" the

elevator from giving you full deflection.)

Then experiment  with flying and slowly add the stick back.

 

You would be surprised how little you have to pull back on the stick

to royally stuff things up.

The N.17 can be "trained" like this too.

 

AND you need to do learn your spin drill.

RTFM then fly waaaay up high and do some drill.

 

Take two each morning and repeat till finished.

 

Salute!


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Captured again!

 


#136 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 11:24

I thought it was supposed to be a good dogfighting machine, but there's no way I could take on a half way decent German plane and live to tell the tale. I tried everything to get out of these spins, and I couldn't do it. I prefer flying the Albatross and the Fokker DVII and the NIeuport 28, To be honest.

It was supposed to be ace custom design, excellent dogfighting machine for best pilots only, sacrificing friendlyness to average pilots for extra performance in hands of expert who can tame it. Not unlike how Germans used Dr.Is :) .The shortage of in-line engines made Britons mass-produce Camel as standard-issue scout instead, and the rest is history. That history includes more Camel pilots killed in accidents than by German pilots, BTW.


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#137 Lt_Yogi_Bear

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 05:45

It would be REAL NICE! to fly the Camel, but, and here`s the Kicker!! The Server won`t let Us adjust anything!!!! I MEAN ANYTHING!!! that would take the advantage away from their beloved Kaiser`s Planes, ha ha ha"""

Not one Server in Mutiplayer allows the player to adjust the FUEL LOAD!! I would Dearly love to fly this plane in MP, but right now as it is, you will find it, and a lot of other really good plane for Entente` side are not in use in MP. They are DEAD PLANES PAL!

Can you change this in the ServersÉ :icon_mad: 


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HEY! Use Teampeak willya?

 


#138 FourSpeed

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 10:31

It would be REAL NICE! to fly the Camel, but, and here`s the Kicker!! The Server won`t let Us adjust anything!!!! (emphasis added) I MEAN ANYTHING!!! that would take the advantage away from their beloved Kaiser`s Planes, ha ha ha"""

Not one Server in Mutiplayer allows the player to adjust the FUEL LOAD!! I would Dearly love to fly this plane in MP, but right now as it is, you will find it, and a lot of other really good plane for Entente` side are not in use in MP. They are DEAD PLANES PAL!

Can you change this in the ServersÉ :icon_mad:

 

Not true.

 

New Wings - Basic Training, and New WIngs - Fast and Furious servers will let you adjust them til your heart's content, to name just two (and there *are* others).

 

Typically, only the expert mode servers lock fuel loads (and there can be a number of reasons for that, which you may or may not agree with). ;)

 

 

 

Regards,

4 :icon_e_salute:


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#139 Uwe_W.

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 22:24

It would be REAL NICE! to fly the Camel, but, and here`s the Kicker!! The Server won`t let Us adjust anything!!!! I MEAN ANYTHING!!! that would take the advantage away from their beloved Kaiser`s Planes, ha ha ha"""
Not one Server in Mutiplayer allows the player to adjust the FUEL LOAD!! I would Dearly love to fly this plane in MP, but right now as it is, you will find it, and a lot of other really good plane for Entente` side are not in use in MP. They are DEAD PLANES PAL!
Can you change this in the ServersÉ :icon_mad:

But that means the Germans have the same fixed fuel load, how is that biased?
Are you saying you have to game the game by taking less fuel in order to be competitive?
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#140 Plank

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 22:38

How about flying with a rilly rilly rilly long hose so you don't have to carry the fuel with you?  Sorry I think my bus is late, again...


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Captured again!

 


#141 Ghost_666

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 22:41

Tried that, got caught in the prop when I spun.

 

And I spin a lot in the camel. :icon_e_wink:


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Circling, Circling, in the sun.  Desperately trying to use my gun.  Up and down and around about.  Left and right I through my Scout.  When I had that Hun, on the run.  My little Newport she spun.  Down and down, with speed I went.  Into the ground, without wings I was sent.  In the mess the empty chair is set.  My flying time is spent.

 


#142 Plank

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 22:48

The chaps at the other end might get a fright when the fuel tank takes off across the field.... damn Yanks... :)


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Captured again!

 


#143 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 09:44

But that means the Germans have the same fixed fuel load, how is that biased?
Are you saying you have to game the game by taking less fuel in order to be competitive?

The planes are intended to match their historical performances (with some error margin due to human error / FM meddling, pick your explanation). Historically, the planes were balanced not only by their performance, but by numbers of available pilots, airframes, spare parts etc - Entente had huge material advantage over Germany, which tried to compensate with excellent training standards, tactics and military culture resulting in high morale and spirit-de-corps. All these differences can't be reproduced as part of flight model; it is up to mission authors to give players on both sides selection of planes that ensures balance and fun game. Adjusting the fuel loads to increase / decrease plane performances is one of tools they have.

If I'm not mistaken, Camel fuel load has been made lighter since latest Fm fix, while Albatros planes were given 100% fuel loads.


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#144 Gump

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 18:53

wasn't the historic performance of the camel at least 15mph faster than a DR1? if i'm not mistaken, the 'new' ROF camel is slower than the DR1. i noticed that the game revision that adjusted the camel's FM reduced RPM's and the camel lost speed and, resultingly, lost maneuverability and increased instability (harder to avoid spins now). over-rev'ing (and blowing up) the engine is not a danger any more. the ROF DR1, however, does overrevv rather quickly.

the (ROF) DR1 can out-turn it, but (historicaly), the DR1 had 1.5x climb rate and probably a quicker roll rate (shorter wings), so that (might) make sense. however, a faster more stable camel (historical camel?) might have more of a chance than the slower (ROF?) camel.


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#145 SeaW0lf

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 19:29

wasn't the historic performance of the camel at least 15mph faster than a DR1? if i'm not mistaken, the 'new' ROF camel is slower than the DR1. i noticed that the game revision that adjusted the camel's FM reduced RPM's and the camel lost speed and, resultingly, lost maneuverability and increased instability (harder to avoid spins now). over-rev'ing (and blowing up) the engine is not a danger any more. the ROF DR1, however, does overrevv rather quickly.

the (ROF) DR1 can out-turn it, but (historicaly), the DR1 had 1.5x climb rate and probably a quicker roll rate (shorter wings), so that (might) make sense. however, a faster more stable camel (historical camel?) might have more of a chance than the slower (ROF?) camel.

 

I am not really a Camel expert, but after researching the Dr.I for two years you end up reading a lot about the Camel too. From my understanding, the best quote I know is that the Camel, even at its worse in terms of engine and plane wear, was a tad faster than a Dr.I just released from the factory. 15mph is a lot. Most of these quotes are wrong or are taking into account the wrong data that the Dr.I max speed was of 165km/h (in fact it is of 180km/h). Edit* You also have to take into account different engines for the Camel.

 

Currently at ROF, the Sopwith Camel is 3km/h faster than the Dr.I at 100m, at 168km/h (http://riseofflight....nce-chart-2015/), which I consider a technical draw. The biggest problem, as you mentioned that it does not overrev anymore, is that it lost its torque, rate of climb, sustained turns. It is not a match anymore for any good Dr.I pilot. In turns, if you don't have altitude to do a pendulum, you are basically a sitting duck. It reminds me of Gould Lee describing his experiences in a Pup against the Albatroses. I am yet to do some climb tests to see how it fares against her counterparts, because it became very tiresome to get to 7.000ft. She behaves at sea level as if she was at 7.000ft. This is differently from before the 1034 patch, when Camel / Dr.I duels were epic and long and hard fought. Who lived knows what I am talking about.

 

Before the patch the Camel had the max speed of 190km/h and the Dr.I of 179km/h. The Dr.I was right, and the Camel people discuss it was more close to the 150hp version. The most common was 130hp, if I am not mistaken. Nonetheless, the N28 (160hp) is 202km/h. They could have taken the Camel down a notch and maintain the Dr.I at 179km/h and the Sopwith Triplane at 184km/h. These are their rightful specifications, and the developers -- who worked on their flight models -- defended them that way for years. 


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