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Would Hard Jams be a Good and Realistic thing?


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19 replies to this topic

#1 J2_squid

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 12:18

I dont mean something from the Womens Institute.

What I mean is that your guns have a chance of having a stoppage that cant be cleared.

I always liked RB3D's system of clearing a jam (random spamming of a key to clear) I feel the current implementation of jams seems a bit easy.

Also would this force you to change your tactics if you knew that any shot could be your last?

Would this add to your experiance or simply be annoying?

Is this realistic? How frequently should it occur?
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#2 Seiseki

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 12:21

Since it did happen a lot in reality, it is realistic to include it in the game..
And since the game is a sim it should be included, but with an option to turn it off.

I think reloading should be more realistic as well, right now it's like you have unlimited amount of hands and can do everything at the same time, flying upside down in a loop while reloading, no problem :lol:
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#3 NickM

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 13:57

Would be very good.

Nick
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#4 Laser

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 16:01

I always liked RB3D's system of clearing a jam (random spamming of a key to clear) I feel the current implementation of jams seems a bit easy.

Which one? The default one or that obtain using Reload ™? :P

I also had comments some months ago about too easy reloading in RoF. I like to have something like this:

Situation: - sometimes the gun is jammed by a stubborn bullet which won't go out by simply reloading. You need to take the hammer and kick it to un-fix him - which would require a. a certain focus and b. certain time

Emulation: press the same key as in reloading, but assign random choices to unload - in Reload i used 1/12, where if you press too quickly the R key, only from 2 to 2 seconds you get new chances calculations (i.e. it has no point pressing R too fast).

To emulate the 'focus' needed, optionally one could need to be in auto-level autopilot mode for the above jam clearing method (i used this for 'changing drums' reload method in Reload for RB3D). Run, be safe, try to clear, if in danger, quit autopilot, run, be safe, continue.
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#5 TX-Thunderbolt

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 16:07

F that. My guns jam too often as it is. I should fire my crew chief and get a new one they jam so often. Always at the worst possible time too.
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#6 MattM

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 16:15

I wouldn't mind a feature like this IF the "normal" gun jam won't happen quite as often as it does right now. I mean, every 20 rounds or so, i get a jam.

Now there were some planes were you couldn't fix a jam that easily (Pfalz DIII, not DIIIa for example), if they could've only fired like 10% of their ammo and then had to fly home, i highly that this kind of plane ever went into production in the first place.

I think currently the guns jam way too often.

BTW: If i read the script files correcty, guns jam more often, if you use full ammo load (1000 rounds in german planes), instead of half load (500 rounds).
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#7 J2_squid

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 16:43

F that. My guns jam too often as it is. I should fire my crew chief and get a new one they jam so often. Always at the worst possible time too.

Thunderbolt, I would say that looking at your ranking your guns are fine ;)

I wouldn't mind a feature like this IF the "normal" gun jam won't happen quite as often as it does right now. I mean, every 20 rounds or so, i get a jam.

Agreed, as Laser pointed out you should have a random chance of a hard jam. (As to what the probability of it happening, it should be very low).

I do think though that the "fear" of a perminant jam may make people more cautious as to how they use their guns. On the flip side it could also save your life.
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#8 stethnorun

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 17:44

It really depends on what people are playing the game for. If it's just just fly around and shoot people down, then this would be just a hindrance to having fun. If, however, they want total immersion (such as in a dynamic career mode), this would be kind of neat. Having to fly home because of the random glitch can add a bit of flavor to a career mission.
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#9 J2_squid

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 20:18

True steth, I was primarly thinking of online ramifications.

That said, perhaps and option "Realistic Jams" could be selected and then its upto the user/server admins
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#10 WWBrian

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 22:43

I had to vote yes, but with the caveat that it is in the helper options.

[ ] Realistic Guns
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#11 Hereward_Hawker

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 00:05

I would say yes, but only with an option to deactivate them. When I'm having gunnery training :twisted: I don't want to have such events and thus having to reload the whole mission :roll:

I'm currently guessing how does work the normal jams. In some missions they don't happen at all and others I must unjam them even after the shortest burst :?:
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#12 Bleddyn

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 01:33

I had to vote yes, but with the caveat that it is in the helper options.

[ ] Realistic Guns


Agreed.
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#13 Atelophobia

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 10:30

It's a Sim and and I'm a Sim fan so I want it to simulate as good as possible. It's also a game but at least everything physics-based can't be relistic enough for me. We dont have energy bars and the first pass of an fast diving opponent can be the last although you did evade quite well…. frustrating yea… but we want it like that, don't we?
So: Yea! Realtistic guns - whatever that means.
Beside that reloading speed and and ability to reload/unjam should be adjusted as well: No reloading in loops, no unjam in a second etc.

Side question: Is a bullet wasted each gun and each time you press reload?

More difficult conditions also reduce spray and pray and sniper tactics (which are easy too afford right now with so much ammo). Make the people wait until they are really close and make them shoot in dives only if they think they have a proper aim
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#14 NakedSquirrel

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 16:57

I wouldn't mind if it took a few more tries to clear some jams. And a hard jam every once in a while wouldn't be too bad, but it would detract from the fun of the game if it happened too often. Enough desperate pounding of the recock button should let you clear jams. We can't forget pilots had the ability to half cimb over their cockpit, pound on their gun and swear at it until it kicked back into action. (Or whatever clearing technique they used). But sure, once in a blue moon, getting a broken gun wouldn't be a bad thing to add to the game.
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#15 Executioner

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 17:50

Yes, on one condition:

option to turn it off. Not everyone likes it this hard…
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#16 MattM

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 17:53

Side question: Is a bullet wasted each gun and each time you press reload?
Yes.
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#17 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 16:19

I voted for hard jams but I don't think I want unclearable jams, just some that take longer, maybe some the road of the development it could be introduced in a way where you have to work on the machine guns for 20-30 seconds and have restricted control over your plane so you should make sure you are safe from enemies before you do it. This might be a better solution than preventing people from shooting should both their guns jam, unless they only have one gun to start with.
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#18 gavagai

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 23:32

I voted yes, but I would hope that the probability of a severe jam would only increase in proportion to the duration of trigger depression.
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#19 =Fifi=

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 07:40

As many of us, i vote yes…but the best thing is that unjam takes more time.
That's all folks!
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#20 Sensenmann

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 22:07

You have my vote for this so long as the hard jams are not too common and done in a realistic manner. I know some of this has been already stated in this post but these are the things I would like to see:

1. Clearing the jams potentially requiring multiple attempts (multiple presses of the reload/re-cock button). Hard jams would not clear, but otherwise appear identical to a clear-able jam.

2. Decrease the chances of jamming. Currently it occurs too frequently and with no apparent reason behind it.

3. Tied to the above, the guns should be prone to jamming due to extended firing periods (barrel temp) and firing during high G maneuvers. In other words, pilot error increases the probability of jamming.

4. A better visual indication of the jammed gun: the lever should lock up in a partially rearward position and attempts to unjam the gun would involve the lever working back and forth until the jam clears and the lever drops back into its forward position. I Don't like how a jammed gun shows no indication of being jammed. Is it jammed or is it empty?


The only gun I am certain of requiring a reload is the drum bearing Lewis gun on the S.E.5a. It would be easy to indicate the need to reload the Lewis (non-jammed, non-firing state) but I have no idea how difficult it would be to restrict the reloading to specific circumstances (level flight, etc.) nor how to handle the reload times (hit the reload button and wait X seconds before the gun can fire again?).
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