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Mod in development - new figure models


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#1 DaveSax

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 12:14

Hi folks - hopefully this won't generate a number of flames telling me how much work it is or how it can't be done. And no, it's "not a Zeppelin mod" nor am I "modelling people on the forum".

Briefly. This is an idea to create more detailed characters for the game. The HIGH polygon shots are below - work in development, this is only about two days mouse jiggling here.

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The models (apart from "most of the face") are very rough at the moment. Two days work, remember. Hands will be added. Flying coats, goggles, oily rags, etc, will be developed. Since it's pretty easy to do variations on a face, I will probably be able to do quite a few "variations".

The low polygon versions of these will be UVmapped and then rigged, ie. have bones added, and then I will take a break and see what the next steps are. Theoretically, it's "import into Poser or 3D Studio, copy the game animations" and then they're a direct replacement for games models (see existing pilot/observer mods) or can have extra functionality built in (more anims) depending on whether or not 777 pick up on it and write some more code. I am undecided.

There's a lot of work here, but I'll crack on and hopefully have something finished. Hope you all enjoy the work so far. It will be a very long slog but at least it's off the "theoretical" stage. There are a few more ideas I have, oh for all the time in the world. ;-)
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#2 DaveSax

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 12:18

PS The reason the damn thing is taking so long is that I'm still on the zBrush learning curve. However, as you can see, the second figure has ears which actually no longer resemble Yorkshire puddings, so there's a great leap forwards. ;-)

If any kind soul could post some natty looking pilot shots to show uniform detail on this thread, much appreciated. I've got shots of standard helmets etc. May do a Sidcot flying suit for the later pilot models. I intend to do three RFC/ Allied pilots (generic) and three observers, same number for the Luftstreitkrafte etc. There will be minor variations allowing more characters to be developed.
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#3 DaveSax

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 12:29

PS It's just occurred to me that the previous pilot mod may have just re-skinned existing models, in which case it will be beyond me to get these in the game without developer help, which is unlikely ! However, we all said that before the Ilya Muromyets came out. Whatever the case, I'll have developed a dozen characters which will be initially offered free of charge, should 777 want them - if not, I would have done them anyway and there's a lot of MS Flight Sim aircraft out there with terrible pilot models. Historical aircraft being flown by Mr Potato Head. ;-)
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#4 Panthercules

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 13:47

I have no idea how the 3D modeling process works, or what it would take to mod them into the game. All my (very limited) work in that area has been to re-skin the faces, just to see if it could be done (it could, but there were some serious limitations regarding the way they were used by the game). But a little extra variety would certainly be welcome, even if it were just in the form of a JSGME mod package that could be swapped in and out from time to time to change things up a little. Especially for the gunners, since as pilots we see their faces a lot more often and from closer up than we typically see other pilots' faces.

Hope you come up with something useful - and don't let the naysayers get you down. As long as you enjoy what you;re doing, and maybe some other folks get some benefit/use out of it, that should be good enough.
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#5 DaveSax

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 14:11

Thanks, Panthercules, much appreciated ! It's a genuine "fan mod", and being done for nothing, of course.

I'll have to look into the way models fit into the game in greater detail. Re-skinning existing models - as we know - is quite straightforwards. However, inserting models into the game is not. I've done this before (admittedly in the Good Old Days - Quake, etc.) and back then you had to essentially recompile the game after any major change.

Having said that, if 777 get a dozen fully animated high quality figures for $0 and there seems to be some enthusiasm out there, well ! - who can tell what will happen ? Certainly fans have had models inserted in the game before, so I'm doing this without any concrete plans.

And if anyone doesn't like them, they don't have to use them, of course. ;-)
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#6 Thaatu

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 14:26

If you have the time, there are lots of objects that could be added to the game as mods, although preferably low polygon -versions. At least moving objects with animations and damage models can be added, so that in itself offers many possibilities. But that is undoubtedly a sweet model. I agree with the above, that especially observers would deserve some additional detail, since the cockpits are otherwise very nicely modeled. What's the current polygon count? Are you also doing the textures?


Btw, there should be new and eager admins here, so hopefully arguments don't escalate as frequently anymore.
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#7 SYN_Vander

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 14:43

Try this! :)

Image
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#8 DaveSax

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 16:14

Thanks, Syn, that's a must, isn't it ? ;-)

Proper "walking out" uniform. The "normal" photos, as crews get more stressed and scruffier as the war progresses, are great. But I think I have to do something like that.

Thaatu, I'd love to do some other simple models. It's honestly a pleasure, two problems are (a) time and (b) will it get in the game ? I'll be happy to do what I can, though.
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#9 B24_LIBERATOR

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 16:30

The first pic reminded me of the California Raisins :lol:

Looks like you're getting the hang of it though! I would love to see the finished product ingame.
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#10 Blade_meister

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 17:05

Looks like the Creators from "Prometheus" to me! :lol:
Keep going Mr Sax, you will get there Sir.

S!Blade<><

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#11 Genius

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 20:57

Hi,

Only one remark, your model seem to be very old for a pilot / observer.

Anyway any contribution from the Community is welcome.

Good luck

Genius
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#12 Thaatu

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 20:59

If any kind soul could post some natty looking pilot shots to show uniform detail on this thread, much appreciated. I've got shots of standard helmets etc. May do a Sidcot flying suit for the later pilot models. I intend to do three RFC/ Allied pilots (generic) and three observers, same number for the Luftstreitkrafte etc. There will be minor variations allowing more characters to be developed.
Can you enable private messages in your profile? I have a few pictures that I scanned from books, but I don't want to spread them around, so my home won't get raided by Interpol. 8-)
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#13 Panthercules

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 00:14

Hi,

Only one remark, your model seem to be very old for a pilot / observer.


I had the same impression, but it's such an early stage I wasn't sure it meant anything at this point.

But yes, once they're done these definitely need to look more like the youngsters who were actually up there and less like us old geezers who pretend we were up there :)
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#14 DaveSax

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 08:06

Thanks very much folks, I'll keep cracking at it !

Theoretically, since it's modular, it should be fairly quick to develop after the initial figure. He said. ;-) I'll keep you posted but no holding your breath, now !
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#15 DaveSax

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 12:32

PS Oh, absolutely. I went "wrinkle tastic" for this one. I'll get the smoothing brush out and make them all look young enough to die. ;-)

PMs on, Thaatu !
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#16 DaveSax

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 16:25

More - creepy green eyes (work in progress) and rough trenchcoat and the very beginnings of a flying helmet.

At the moment, the trenchcoat looks like someone has draped a large intestine around his shoulders: it's not a weird Masonic thing, this is all, er, normal at this stage ! :mrgreen:

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#17 DaveSax

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 16:25

PS Yep, thanks, Blade, I couldn't look at ethereal, spectral figures for much longer, either ! ;-)
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#18 Thaatu

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 12:52

Remember to add goggles so the eyes don't need to be too specific.
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#19 Blade_meister

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 13:21

Looking good Sir, you are getting there. :S!:

S!Blade<><
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#20 DaveSax

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:07

Oh yes, coming along ! ;-) There's going to be several variations of period goggles, helmets, jackets, etc. Then you just chop and change.
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#21 Idengard

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:27

The eyes are a bit too close together, aren't they? Anyway, goggles, like Thaatu said. Thank you, keep it up!
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#22 DaveSax

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 12:07

Definitely too close, Idengard. I shall get a MOVE brush applied to that. Cheers, all, any feedback is more than welcome, honestly. I was thinking "Borderline criminal looking" but a second opinion always helps. ;-)

What I'm trying to do is get a reasonably realistic face. Yes, I could do an ultra high res one, but it's going to get simplified anyway, as part of the model development. Some games engines now handle huge polygon counts and video cards are becoming fast enough to handle huge amounts of 3D data, but this "has to look good from the other cockpit" if it's a two seater, and "has to look good from 20 feet away" if it's a single seater. No point me modelling nose hairs if it's just going to be a model seen in flypast, and this is…. detail…. anyway.

So the idea is to do about a dozen faces. Maybe more. Get a basic face, do another one by deforming the basic face (ie different chin, nose, eyes etc) and that's two. Then start deforming each one further and create a mass of similar but different faces. Not mentioned skinning yet, of course.

You start adding different flying jackets, gloves, goggles, boots, and you've got tons and tons of variations. I know, some people will say "but it's detail", well, yes, of course, mods aren't for everyone, but I think some variation would be very nice. Anyway, this is a "Downloadable content" game, so if you don't like it, you don't have to download it. The option will be (hopefully) there.
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#23 Timmaaa2945z

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 15:29

Just out of curiosity, did you find a tutorial on how to get models from zBrush into the game? Would you happen to have the link?

Cheers and Good Luck :S!:
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#24 DaveSax

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 16:25

Hi Tim, there is no tutorial. ;-)
Right, basically, I can get a model from ZBrush into 3D Studio. That's easy. You just reduce the poly count, export the model in .obj (or whatever) format) and then pick it up in 3DS Max. You "rig it" - tons of tutorials, google "biped rig 3DS Max - you can even do it in Poser…. this is all simple.

So, you can use the animation tools within Poser / Max / whatever to produce an animated figure which does something over a number of frames / keyframes.

Here's the problem.

What happens next - to get the model in the game - is not something I can do.

The game code is all compiled, ie, to make an executable of the game, you have to get all the anims, objects, sounds, code etc and then run it through a compiler. This puts models in native format. It runs code, ie. "If condition happens, do animation X using figure Y for Z frames, alter values to this…." and this is solely done from within the game.

So. I can do anims. I can do figures. I can replicate things already in the game. BUT. These are new models and for anything to happen, 777 have to pick it up. Enough good dev work and they may be tempted.
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#25 Timmaaa2945z

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 19:12

Thanks for the info! I used to use zBrush and 3DS Max a lot. Haven't in a while but might give it a try. :S!:
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#26 DaveSax

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 08:10

No probs, Tim, be nice to have some more models ! Drop me a PM and I'll send you my mail address.

Who knows what's going to happen with the game, but presenting developers with a lot of work that's already been done means it COULD be included in a future patch. Fingers crossed.

If not, I have other plans, hem hem hem. ;-)
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#27 DaveSax

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 16:11

Legs.. always useful. Hands, ditto. Goggles started (lenses in for show). Face tidied up. AND I managed to do some gardening as well to keep Mrs F happy. ;-)

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This one's Allied, and therefore called "Arthur". Arthur will have a German counterpart - "Albrecht". Arthur will be followed with Bert, Albrecht with Berthold, etc.

The shadows are due to me working out the internal rendering process on the app I'm using. The grid lines are just there for reference in some shots.
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#28 DaveSax

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 16:20

Whoopsie, PS - you get the idea. ;-)

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That's all for now, folks ! ;-)
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#29 DaveSax

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 16:22

Oh dear.
Second shot looks a bit like a young John Wayne.
"The hell it does". ;-)
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#30 DaveSax

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 15:59

Eau, helleau……
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And a full size render….
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#31 DaveSax

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:32

Hi folks, quick update - unfortunately, this mod has been iced. Unfortunately, I will not be able to get these into the game without assistance from 777, and they're quite happy with current models. I don't blame them at all as it's quite a fair amount of work, and I'm sure they're busy with other things. I'm going to continue doing some model building for my own amusement and for a seperate project which uses a different game engine where I can include these models, but this will be nothing at all to do with RoF.
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#32 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:41

Sorry to hear that Dave. But there is much needed in the way of other RoF 3D content such as buildings, ships, etc. that would not require the game developers to do anything.

Once it was proven not to cause in-game problems all of Vander's objects are now included, and he just told me that he discovered they included our Drifter in the packed game files (we never knew).

You can make a difference, if you choose.

EDIT: reply?
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