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Slawdevice vs Crosswinds...


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#1 Pointy

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:40

Hey guys, anyone using a Slawdevice or MFG Croswinds?

Am talking to Slaw at the moment and am looking to buy one or the other.

Anyone have any experience with these pedals? Info on the Slaws seems pretty limited at this stage.

Thanks in advance.
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#2 J2_SteveF

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:13

Pointy

One Slaw satisfied customer here

I did a review of his pedals on SimHq

–> http://simhq.com/for...als#Post3887591" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://simhq.com/for...bbthreads.php/t … ost3887591

I love them :)
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#3 Pointy

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:19

I read your review, thanks for the info, will have to order I think, the full metal construction and of course the aesthetics are awesome.

Thanks mate:)
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#4 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 13:32

Brigstock, how loud are they when working? Do springs / parts moving against each other do much sound, compared with CH pedals (review says you had them once)? I need to replace my CHs with something silent.
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#5 J2_SteveF

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 13:50

I've never considered sound to be a factor with pedals.
I don't remember my CH pedals being noisy.
All I can say is that they are no nosier than any set of pedals I've owned.

There is no noise as the pedals go through the axis, apart from when they go through the centre because of the spring stops.
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#6 Pirato

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 15:29

I own MFG Crosswind Pedals and they are the best Flightsim gear I ever owned. Sturdy as hell and highly adjustable,no play or sticktion and the support from Milan is really great.There have been frequent Firmware upgrades the last couple of Months. The Pedals are in heavy use since August 2013 and I have nothing negative to report.

The Slaw Device Pedals are certainly of excellent quality aswell,after many years with only Saitek,Simped or CH Pedals to pick from we now have 2 High End Sets of pedals to choose from.
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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
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#7 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 18:20

I've never considered sound to be a factor with pedals.
I don't remember my CH pedals being noisy.
All I can say is that they are no nosier than any set of pedals I've owned.

There is no noise as the pedals go through the axis, apart from when they go through the centre because of the spring stops.

I never considered it earlier, before I moved to new place and neighbours started complaining on night noices :o . Moving elements of CH pedals scratch main unit box from inside and the blockade *clanks* every time I move pedals through central position. Can't hear it myself over the engine if playing with headphones, but can't rule out they can be heard at silent night in home with bad acoustics, and the complainers come to me anyway.

Is there a mechanical central position blockade in Slavdevice, like one in CH, anyway?
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#8 Pointy

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 21:15

Yeah definitely an option Pirato, either one would be nuts, plus the MFG guy seems to have put a lot of R&D into his product and has really tried to think of everything.

Seems like a good bloke too.

Looking at my cockpit now im going to have to make some mesurements to make sure they fit…took it for granted they would but the Obutto revolution tapers in so it depends on height.
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#9 Pirato

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 21:46

I'm not sure about the Slaw Device pedals,but for the MFG there is a "Width reduction plate" shown here in this Video https://www.youtube....h?v=8mrSWkC_1Hk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"> but could be the Slaw pedals can be reduced in width also.
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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#10 J5_Vorlander

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 22:37

I have an Obutto R3 with crosswind pedals. Fits perfectly. Milan sell adjustable plates to make the pedals a few cm narrower.

My setup is great.
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#11 N28_Uberplane

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 22:38

With Vorlander on this one. Crosswinds won't disappoint.
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=IRFC=


#12 Pointy

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:11

Great news on the fit in the R3, have been thinking about it all day, still need to measure for the slaws just to make sure tho if the crosswinds fit they should also being not as wide.

Waiting for Slaw to email me back on a video of the action of the pedals before I decide.

The crosswinds are proven so it sounds, would like to see the Slaws in action tho.

It's a tough one….lol

Thanks for the help on this one guys.
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#13 J2_SteveF

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 08:39

I would put the Slaws above the Crosswinds on the internal electronics.
I looked at both thoroughly. The Slaws won out in the end because of the all metal construction, the replica 109 pedals and the high end electronics.

In terms of foot print I don't think there is much difference between the 2. Both are configurable for width and pedal angle.

I have seen a few posts from people having issues getting the Crosswinds to be recognised in game and the firmware updates have been to fix problems.
No such issues with Slaws pedals, they work straight out of the box. The Pedals use digital magnetoresistive sensors, far better than standard pots or even Hal sensors.
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#14 Pointy

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 10:34

Yeah I agree, plus metal over composite, tho that's double edged too as I swap from flying to racing on a regular basis and lugging out six kilos each time my be a pain like my Fanatec clubsport pedals….tho a price I would pay for the 109 goodness… :D

But before I put six hundred au+ down I would at least like to see the action of the pedals, waiting on a request for a vid from Slaw.

If I don't get a response I will definitely go with the crosswinds.

Have been through all sorts with Fanatec (still awesome and don't regret the purchase mind you) I just don't want to have any dramas with less support.

Not saying anything will go wrong as they look bullet proof, or that there is anything to suggest support will be bad, but stranger things have happend…lol… ;)
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#15 J2_SteveF

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:48

It was the firmware issues that put me off the Crosswinds and as the cost is roughly the same for both sets and the fidelity of the electronics of the Slaw Device, it was a no brainer.

It didn't give me confidence in the product that it "needed" a firmware upgrade to fix it's USB ID number.

The main difference between the Crosswinds and the Slaw Device is that Milan is a salesman and Slaw isn't.
He's a very talented designer and electrical engineer, he's made a superb product but he's no marketing man :)
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#16 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 14:28

Dont put down the Crosswings like that - I got the first set and I didnt need any firmware updates at all. They have been working from the word go - extremly well.
The fact that Milan is doing firmware updates only means that he is improving the pedals constantly which is a good thing instead of a bad thing.
And Milan also is far from a sales guy - he is a one man show in his company and did all the design and bulid by himself.
The Crosswings are deffinitly excelent and worth the money - I would highly recommend them to anyone that is looking for high quality precise pedals.
I only wish that we had joystick of the same quality / design level (VKB Mamba although excelent is lacking a few basic things that makes it a lesser product)
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#17 =HillBilly=

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 14:47

The Pedals use digital magnetoresistive sensors, far better than standard pots or even Hal sensors.
This statement is kind of misleading,yes the potsare inferior butt the other two are basically the same.
http://books.google.... sensor&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://books.google....books?id=_H5n-5 … or&f=false
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#18 J2_SteveF

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 15:03

Dont put down the Crosswings like that - I got the first set and I didnt need any firmware updates at all. They have been working from the word go - extremly well.
The fact that Milan is doing firmware updates only means that he is improving the pedals constantly which is a good thing instead of a bad thing.
And Milan also is far from a sales guy - he is a one man show in his company and did all the design and bulid by himself.
The Crosswings are deffinitly excelent and worth the money - I would highly recommend them to anyone that is looking for high quality precise pedals.
I only wish that we had joystick of the same quality / design level (VKB Mamba although excelent is lacking a few basic things that makes it a lesser product)

I'm not putting them down.
I'm saying out of the 2, I choose Slaw Device and gave the reasons.
AggressorBlue had issues getting his pedals to play ball in Windows gamecontroller panel, which meant Milan had to get the firmware updated. That is a fact and also something I looked at because like AgressorBlue I have multiple controller plugged into my PC, so that became a factor.

"And Milan also is far from a sales guy - he is a one man show in his company and did all the design and bulid by himself."
Doesn't mean he doesn't know how to market his product.
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#19 J2_SteveF

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 15:21

The Pedals use digital magnetoresistive sensors, far better than standard pots or even Hal sensors.
This statement is kind of misleading,yes the potsare inferior butt the other two are basically the same.
http://books.google.... sensor&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://books.google....books?id=_H5n-5 … or&f=false


Not really, digital magnetoresistive sensors are more precise and less likely to susceptible to external noise than Hall sensors
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#20 Pirato

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 20:01

I would put the Slaws above the Crosswinds on the internal electronics.
I looked at both thoroughly. The Slaws won out in the end because of the all metal construction, the replica 109 pedals and the high end electronics.

In terms of foot print I don't think there is much difference between the 2. Both are configurable for width and pedal angle.

I have seen a few posts from people having issues getting the Crosswinds to be recognised in game and the firmware updates have been to fix problems.
No such issues with Slaws pedals, they work straight out of the box. The Pedals use digital magnetoresistive sensors, far better than standard pots or even Hal sensors.


The issues with Games have been fixed with a new Firmware update after just a few weeks from when issues first showed up,and it even was Christmas and New Year Hollydays. It where only like 3 Games or so that didn't recocgnize the Pedals,one was CFS3 from like 12 years ago.

MFG's are using magnetoresistive sensors too.

The next point is certainly up to personal preference,it's the centering mechanism of both pedals. While the Slaw Device seem to have a pretty noticable center,from what I can tell by the picture…it looks similar to the Simpeds I have owned… the MFG can be customized from a noticable center to a really soft center where almost no transition is noticed. This can be done by using different Cam designs,a set of 2 different ones is shipped with the pedals. Others are planned for the foreseeable future as extra options.

I think we all can agree that both are excellent work and both are worth getting them while each one has its pros and cons of course.
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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#21 Pointy

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 02:38

Nothing wrong with stating your reasons for buying Brigs.

Thanks for everyone's help, I only just saw the crosswinds thread….lol….thanks for taking the time to go over old ground.

It's a tough choice still, I want the Slaws, tho I would happily grab the crosswinds, my pros cons are as follows…..

Crosswinds are composite which looks more than durable (likened to Bakelite) but the Slaws are metal, I like that.

Slaws are not proven, with only one customer review I have found (brigs thanks muchly) but Crosswinds have a huge rap already.

Milan seem like an honest salesman that provides good support,

Still no news from Slaw (may be away/busy I understand).

No real info on the Slaws, no videos relating to build/action, a few shots on Facebook and an email address.

Crosswinds while looking easy on the eye, the slaws look pretty awesome.
(Edit: made a joke here, it probably didn't come across with a smile as intended so I decided to remove it, I would buy the CWs on looks alone;)

I love the 109 and "replica" high end gear, tho crosswinds are also Luft style.

Crosswinds may come out in grey…..should I wait?

Electronics in the Slaws seem superior, higher res, no noise.

Electronics in crosswinds seem to have some noise from one vid I watched tho in practical terms it's a non issue. Firmware is just part of life so not bothered.

I need the extra adaptor plate with the crosswinds to fit into my cockpit.

Slaws are readily adjustable.

Milan has a lot of aviation experience so would know the feel he's after, Slaw I don't know but obviously talented with a great eye.

Slaws heavy so I don't have to mount (swapping fanatec pedals quite a bit) but 6kg of pain, crosswinds lighter, but will have to come up with a quick release mounting system.

This leads me to the conclusion…..back where I started, waiting for a response from slaw….I want the Slawdevice but need more info before buying. Wouldn't be disappointed with crosswinds.

Brigs, can I shoot you a PM with my email address? Could you take a minute or so to break out your phone and shoot me a quick vid, I know it's an ask mate but would be helpful.
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#22 J2_SteveF

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:37

Pointy, I thought about the vid for you too.
I'll see what I can do
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#23 Pointy

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 21:52

Mate, that would be great, just shot you a pm.
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#24 meanstreak-2

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:27

Hi all
I saw this little discussion and I had to jump in. Normally I try to stay away from user discussions like this and let customers of both parties speak themselves, not to be a salesman :-) ….however, I have to respond to some things written in this thread.

@ Pointy
I will not try to convince you to buy Crosswinds. You seem to like Slaw's and that's fine with me. Tho I never used slaw pedals and I can't say much on that matter, but they really look well engineered and well made pedals, and, from all the people in the world I am probably the one who respect that engineering and production the most as I know what it takes to make the pedals !
Me and slaw took quite a different approach. I paid most attention to details which are most important to me, and, as I thought , to future users. Slaw paid more attention to other details and will definitely find people who find those details more important. I wish him all the luck in the world.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
So, these are things I have to react to :

"The main difference between the Crosswinds and the Slaw Device is that Milan is a salesman and Slaw isn't."


- you keep forgetting that I'm here, I flew ROF skies against you guys and I intend to continue. I am a furniture producer who jumped in producing pedals for myself, perfected them and presented them to you, completely, in open discussion from a start on SimHQ. If you payed attention to how it all started than you will not call me a salesman…it's offensive !!!…I asked for help on forum how to name my product, asked for opinions, and people jumped in. It's not my sales competence that gave me much attention, but the product itself. People jumped in to help. And it's cleary not me to blame that ATAG bliss wated to give away my pedals for DCS WW2 1946 supporter. In general , I think I showed what I am and what I will do, and people jumped in to help becouse they like it.
- If you consider that my poor english speaking and writing is an important sales competence…then ok, voila, I'm a salesman, but don't forget that I engineered, produce and test all pedals myself on top of that !


"I would put the Slaws above the Crosswinds on the internal electronics."
"Electronics in the Slaws seem superior, higher res, no noise."


- Consider this… I could opt for the Red Baron's electronics with Komaroff sensor too…and there are a couple reasons why I did not !
- MFG use electronics from GVL224 proven and tested on BRD Baur Devices…pedals too…Baur started making pedals 2 years before me with GVL224 electronics
- Rudder axis is integrated in main PCB instead of using separate PCB… I found this solution more robust…Red Baron could not provide such solution
- KMZ41 sensor provide more resolution than Komaroff in my pedals… raw reading is now 3600 positions. True…there is very minor noise which is sorted with new filtering and oversampling algoritham…actually …that algoritham enable me to reach 4096 position of precision without problems…and If I had no noise on raw sensor this would not be possible. to conclude, new firmware has noisless sensor with improved resolution, resolution which would not be possible if there was no noise to start with.


"It didn't give me confidence in the product that it "needed" a firmware upgrade to fix it's USB ID number."
" AggressorBlue had issues getting his pedals to play ball in Windows gamecontroller panel "
"I have seen a few posts from people having issues getting the Crosswinds to be recognised in game and the firmware updates have been to fix problems.
No such issues with Slaws pedals, they work straight out of the box. "


- warthog requied quite a few firmware upgrades in a start.
- Id number was not "wrong". I just wanted it to be higher to end up as last controller that your game will recognise…better in some older games like IL2 where you can adjust curves only on 1st joystick device…and if that are my pedals than you're screwed, don't you think ?
- I introduced quite a lot features in new firmware…if customers insist I can stop introducing new features , that's a least problem. Firmware upgrades are optional at any case.
- Why don't you ask AgressorBlue if he is happy with his pedals. In fact…I belive he will publish official review on SimHQ very soon.
- Have you tried slaw device on CFS3, WOFF and mechwarrior ? I belive it won't work without firmware upgrade. I did changed axis bindings to support these games which are based on older microsoft engine - don't blame the pedals for Microsoft screwups ! It's offensive.


"The Pedals use digital magnetoresistive sensors, far better than standard pots or even Hal sensors."
"Not really, digital magnetoresistive sensors are more precise and less likely to susceptible to external noise than Hall sensors"
"Electronics in crosswinds seem to have some noise from one vid I watched tho in practical terms it's a non issue"


- small noise on my videos is before Firmware 4.10 which introduced filtering of the axis..no more noise.
- MFG Crosswind use magnetoresistive sensor for the rudder and hall's for brakes, and there is a reason for that
- there are sensors, and there are other sensors. Magnetoresistive vs hall's is not a story of which is better, but what you want a sensor to do ! Russians used magnetoresistive sensors mostly becouse their flight sim metal construction….metal is moving around the sensing area while pedals move…cousing problems with accurate sensing. With Composite pedals such problem don't exist. Magnetoresistive sensors that they used have less of such error, that's all. Newer Hall's like triaxis sensor from Melexis used in warthog…are maybe even better than any magrez…honestly I'm not shure…but at least equally good.


I hope I cleared a few things up, without offending anybody :-)
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#25 meanstreak-2

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:50

One more thing.

I strongly belive that resolution above 2000-2500 positions is just an extra anyway. Truthfully…I can make 1 point position increments on my pedals with my hands in testing enviroment…but in a heap of a dogfight…no.

So, if resolution is above 2000-2500 positions for axis…it all comes down to how good it feels under hands or feet…how precisely can you translate such resolution…can you make fine movements or not, is it realistic or not.

I expect experienced simmers with a lot of simgear to confirm this.

As real pilots go…well, quite a lot tested my pedals, and many own them. Pilots that fly various aircraft don't have a feel that they prefer, but they adopt. Every plane behaves a bit different and they simply learn how to handle it's controls.
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#26 Pointy

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:18

Thanks for the response Milan.

I find your support for the product very encouraging, as stated previously.
Having many years of sales experience I find your attitude refreshing and honest, which tells me your really do have a product you believe in. Kudos mate.
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#27 meanstreak-2

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:55

Compatibility is not a big problem for slaw's. I remember when speaking with Red Baron, maker of his electronics that he has a bootloader- possibility to update firmware thru USB.

I found a where the problem is and made a solution. Red Baron only need to change axis bindings in his firmware as X and Y axis must exist in order to be compatible with these games.
So instead of using Rx and Ry I've opted to use X and Y for brakes…rZ for rudder axis is unchanged.

More details about it can be found here
http://simhq.com/for...opics/3875540/5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://simhq.com/for...opics/3875540/5
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#28 Pointy

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 14:34

Thanks Milan, thanks for taking the time, you are a gentleman, that makes sense. :S!:

Edit: I am looking forward to the Slaw device but your support has been astounding and obviously in the best interest of the flight sim community!
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#29 J5_Mueller

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:22

Salute! Milan,thanks for great product,cant wait to try these out!
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#30 meanstreak-2

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:50

Hi J5_Mueller

I did not recive your e-mail or a private message here on forum :-(
I don't have such e-mail in my customer database at all : mueller@jasta5.org
( not on inquirie, preorders …)

I sent you e-mail to mueller@jasta5.org to confirm your identity so I can check out which pedals are we talking about.

Anyway…if you don't recive such e-mail…please respond here, better to use PM…instead of publishing your private e-mail in a forum !

Edit :
Check your spam e-mails just in case
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#31 J5_Mueller

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 07:06

:S!:
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#32 56RFC-klem

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:46

I reviewed the Crosswind pedals here:

http://simhq.com/for...537#Post3920537" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://simhq.com/for...bbthreads.php/t … ost3920537

Now to the Slaw pedals which I can only judge from posts in this Thread. Personally I prefer the look of the Crosswinds. The Slaws have an old-style engineering look about them but I know they are intended to create that 'historical' look and are described as '109' pedals which is fair enough. I am absolutely a fan of the Crosswind's cam centering idea and smooth transition through the centre. I have no idea how well the Slaws perform, especially the transition through the centre, but smoothness through the centre-point would be critical for me (see my comparison with Saitek in my review). I imagine they are on a similar performance level to the Crosswinds. Most of the Crosswind/Slaw pros and cons in this Thread are about small things. I can only say that I am more then happy with the Crosswinds.
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#33 Pointy

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 13:05

Great review Klem, well written unbiased and informative, congrats on the win also!
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#34 Zigrat

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:45

I have crosswinds and highly recommend them. Only reservation really is the price but really that's due to the limited production and international shipping, if they were 250-300 usd in America they would be much easier to recommend
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#35 meanstreak-2

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 16:05

Hi all
I've published new video on youtube if anyone is intrested
It cover unpacking, assembly and calibration ( calibration at 6:50) . Old videos were a bit long and calibration was more directed to old customers and upgrade proces , so it was complicated and confusing for new customers.

https://www.youtube....h?v=pX2cPKJ6yeo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">
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#36 Gadfly21

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:59

I reviewed the Crosswind pedals here:

http://simhq.com/for...537#Post3920537" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://simhq.com/for...bbthreads.php/t … ost3920537

Now to the Slaw pedals which I can only judge from posts in this Thread. Personally I prefer the look of the Crosswinds. The Slaws have an old-style engineering look about them but I know they are intended to create that 'historical' look and are described as '109' pedals which is fair enough. I am absolutely a fan of the Crosswind's cam centering idea and smooth transition through the centre. I have no idea how well the Slaws perform, especially the transition through the centre, but smoothness through the centre-point would be critical for me (see my comparison with Saitek in my review). I imagine they are on a similar performance level to the Crosswinds. Most of the Crosswind/Slaw pros and cons in this Thread are about small things. I can only say that I am more then happy with the Crosswinds.

I am interested in knowing more about this also. From what I've read, the Crosswinds have an exponential resistance curve thanks to the cam design. I was wondering if the Slaw device has a similar feel.
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