Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Luascripts - Ballistics & damaged model


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 Genius

Genius
  • Posts: 587

Posted 24 December 2013 - 00:58

Hi,

Today, i try to understand how damaged model in luascripts works. :geek:

I am interested mainly in following line

  • Armor=20.0
  • //is armor plate, blindage. If the shot is not powerful enough to penetrate the armor, it will not harm.

  • LifeRate=12000
  • // Life point specific for bullet/shells impact. At 0, object is destroy.

  • LifeRateFg=15000
  • // Life point specific for explosive action like bombs. At 0, object is destroy.

  • Firing=0.007
  • SmokeStartHealth = 0.7
  • // determines the level of life from which the effect begins, it corresponds to the % remaining life (ex. 0.7: from 70% of life [30% damaged] the object begins to smoke)

  • ImpulseToDestroy = 7000
  • ImpulseMinimumLevel = 4000
  • // I don't know ?? After many test i don't understand is role.

  • SideModel = true
  • //Using this parameters if you want specific armor based on location, the others lines used for is:
    FrontArmor = x
    SideArmor = x
    BackArmor = x
    TopArmor = x
    BottomArmor = x

    // Only specific armor parts may be mentioned, the number is the armor value
    AngleSideAxis = 45.0
    // Angle (usually between 30 and 45) can be correspond to the angle required to reach the side relative to the pivot point on the Z axis (Z rotation value)- See A red Angle ?
    AngleBackFrontAxis = 85.0
    // Angle (usually between 50 and 85) may match the angle to be necessary to achieve the forward or backward relative to the pivot point on the Y axis (Y rotation value)- See B blue Angle ?
    AngleTopBottomAxis = 80.0
    // Angle (usually between 70 and 89) mcan be correspond to the angle required to reach the underside of the object with respect to the pivot point on the X axis (X rotation value)- See C black Angle ?

    See screens to explain:
    Image


  • Shield=20

  • // Only for static object, seem to be the armor of the object, all object have about 100'000 point of live per group of collision box (example: buildxx_01, buldxx_02, buildxx_03 = 3 group of collision box)


    To determine the correct armor and life rate, i analyzed the ballistics and explosions lua.

    For example shell_fr_75_b:
    Armor1=100,496, 70,2000, 30,3000, 15,6000, 10,7000, 5,8000, 0,8500
    Armor2=1000,455, 30,1000, 15,4000, 10,4500, 5,5250, 0,6000
    Armor3=3001,385, 10,2000, 5,2500, 0,3000

    I test by changing the armor and life points of an object and calculating the number of shots to get to the destruction it's correspond to:

    ArmorX = distance in meters, speed, and pairs Armor/Life damage

    Example of the 75mm shells, At 100m, the shells have an effect of 8500 life damage for an Armor=0, if the Armor=10, life damage is 7000. At 1000m, life damage is 6000 with Armor=0, etc..

    I condensed the lua in the following table for shells:

    Image

    I do the same for bombs, but i think the operation is slightly different, One bomb have two life damaged effect:
    - One on impact (before explosion)=> lua on ballistics folder
    - One on blast => lua on explosion => lua on explosions folder
    I think, the total life damaged of a bomb is the sum of impact damage + blast damage

    Lua per bomb on ballistics folder:
    Example: bomb_fr_40kg
    Armor1=0,100, 10,2000, 5,5000 0,10000
    Armor2=0,10, 5,1000 0,3000
    HitArmor="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Bomb/Metal40.txt"
    HitBuilding="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Bomb/Building40.txt"

    I think is:
    ArmorX=?, drop altitude above ground ?, pairs Armor/Life damage

    The end of the Lua determines the type of explosion (lua on explosions folder) following the point of impact (land, water, buildings, etc. …)

    Lua on explosions folder
    Example: ground40
    Radius=50
    // Ôóãàñíîå âîçäåéñòâèå
    Pressure=20400 // äàâëåíèå íà ðàññòîÿíèè 1 ìåòð
    TNT_equ=24
    // Ôóãàñíîå âîçäåéñòâèå, îáùåé öèôðîé
    ArmorFoug1=3,-1, 20,26000, 10,28000, 5,30000, 0,32000
    ArmorFoug2=10,-1, 20,8000, 10,10000, 5,12000, 0,16000
    ArmorFoug3=20,-1, 10,2000, 5,300, 0,4000
    ArmorFoug4=35,-1, 0,200
    ArmorFoug5=50,-1, 0,0

    Radius=X determines the distance of blast in meters (50 m in example)

    Like shells, we have line with couple of radius distance / Armor / Life damage

    ArmorFougX=radius distance,-1, pairs Armor / Life damage

    I condensed the lua in the following table for bombs:

    Image

    Oddly gbr_bomb_230/250/520/550lb have the same destructive power and we have strange value for ger_300kg and gbr_1650lb in Armor=10 / effective radius (only 1000 and 2000 life damage wile we have 15000 and 30000 at Armor=15or30) ???

    Bye
    Genius

    Edit: updated for new research
    • 0

    #2 SYN_Vander

    SYN_Vander
    • Tester
    • Posts: 4710

    Posted 24 December 2013 - 08:58

    Very useful Genius! We are still struggling with correct damage parameters for the Tirpitz battery.

    About liferatefg : russian translation reads: " to calculate explosive action" - not sure this helps though!

    About impulsetodestroy: this maybe has to do with if another object collides with it?
    • 0

    #3 gavagai

    gavagai
    • Posts: 15541

    Posted 24 December 2013 - 13:33

    I can help with how the armor thing works. If you look at the ballistics of a bullet or shell, you see something like this:

    armor1= x1, x2, x3, x4, x5, x6
    armor2= y1, y2, y3, y4, y5, y6

    etc.

    The third place value, like x3 or y3, has to be equal to or greater than the "armor" value of the object. For example, when I reduced the lethality of all machine guns so that the x3 was only equal to 5, I had to reduce the "armor" of balloons from 10 to 5 so they could still be damaged. Hope that helps.

    ————

    Oh, next time look at the spoilers. OP already knows this. :D
    • 0

    #4 Waxworks

    Waxworks
    • Posts: 630

    Posted 24 December 2013 - 17:36

    Thanks Genius that's very helpful!

    Gav, why would balloons have armour at all? If they need more durability why not extra hitpoints? It's odd to have a balloon rated as protected to the same extent as a gun with a gunshield.

    I hope the lethality mods can be made ready so that they can be added into the game. Can we have flak that does damage rather than kill outright? Engines might die too quickly, it would be good if they could just have reduced performance, as this happened far more often than it does in the game?

    Can bombs and object hit points be revised too?
    • 0

    #5 SYN_Vander

    SYN_Vander
    • Tester
    • Posts: 4710

    Posted 24 December 2013 - 21:21

    It was easy to shoot holes in balloons, but far more difficult to actually ignite them. I think the extra armor simulates that.
    • 0

    #6 Avimimus

    Avimimus
    • Posts: 1317

    Posted 25 December 2013 - 00:07

    I've been told that life-rating is a default hitpoint value, but is modifiable in the mission editor (when an object is placed). It also doesn't work for gunner durability anymore - so it may be something of a legacy value.

    "Impulse" seems to be related to overpressures/shock-wave damage rather than shrapnel (more probabilistic damage).
    • 0

    #7 Genius

    Genius
    • Posts: 587

    Posted 25 December 2013 - 00:44

    Eureka ! :geek: :ugeek:

    Thanks Syn_Vander, you routed me on the right direction !

    The LiferateFg, is the Life point specific for explosive action (see ground40 lua discussed above: ArmorFoug1=3,-1, 20,26000, 10,28000, 5,30000, 0,32000).

    If you have Liferate = 100 and LiferateFg=200000 (Armor 0 for example), you can destroy object with a simple fire gun but you can't destroy it with explosion effect of a bomb fr_40kg (32000 life point effect on radius=3).

    Inversely, if you have Liferate=200000 and LiferateFg=100 a litle bomb can destroy the object.

    The first two levels of life reaches zero declares the object as destroyed.

    Liferate = life at shell/bullet impact
    LiferateFg= Life at explosion effect

    For ImpulsetoDestroy & ImpulseMinimumLevel, Tank have respectly 250000/200000, Truck 25000/15000, Train have 120000/80000 (Locomotive 140000/100000) but still not found. (I try to crash my breguet XIV on it with impulse to destroy at 100, but no damaged…only me :mrgreen: )


    Bye
    Genius
    • 0

    #8 Genius

    Genius
    • Posts: 587

    Posted 25 December 2013 - 17:47

    Adding a supplement in the first post on Sidemodel function.

    Bye
    Genius
    • 0

    #9 SYN_Vander

    SYN_Vander
    • Tester
    • Posts: 4710

    Posted 25 December 2013 - 20:24

    Excellent work!
    • 0

    #10 Waxworks

    Waxworks
    • Posts: 630

    Posted 26 December 2013 - 14:49

    We should revise the bomb damage and hope that one day the revised versions will be acceptable. It is silly to have 2 200lbs bombs do twice the damage of a 500lb bomb..

    The naval aspects of the game could do with investigation as well, I'm not convinced that crew quality affects the ships as much as it should. Also, it you set up one cruiser to attack another it will be destroyed in seconds because of the silly defence values. While I appreciate that this isn't a naval simulator, its just as easy to have credible values? Hopefully if we do get destroyers it will be more acceptable to improve cruisers, so that destroyers are ships you can just about destroy with big enough bombs, while cruisers become almost invulnerable- as they would be to 100 and 200 pound bombs.
    • 0

    #11 Genius

    Genius
    • Posts: 587

    Posted 26 December 2013 - 22:36

    Hi,

    @ all, Thanks !

    @ Waxworks: See inclosed hotfix, don't time to test maybe you can ? I think it is necessary to test "mod on"

    Attached File  Bombs - hotfix mod v0.1.zip   59.18KB   41 downloads

    I have created new explosion files (Ground200, Metal200, etc…) and linked to the 500/550 lb bombs. I have corrected other strange values.

    See screens to see corrected values (on the left = the original, on the right and highlighted in yellow = the new values)

    Image

    Edit: Add Shield description on first post:

  • Shield=20
  • // Only for static object, seem to be the armor of the object, all object have about 100'000 point of live per group of collision box (example: buildxx_01, buldxx_02, buildxx_03 = 3 group of collision box)
    • 0

    #12 J.j.

    J.j.
    • Posts: 1959

    Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:53

    Le hotfix est un mod qui corrige les valeurs aberrantes pour certaines bombes? C'est super ça!
    • 0

    #13 SYN_Vander

    SYN_Vander
    • Tester
    • Posts: 4710

    Posted 27 December 2013 - 10:16

    I hope someone can help Genius to test this? I have my hands full atm, but I would sure like to lobby for this to be added to a future update.
    • 0

    #14 Genius

    Genius
    • Posts: 587

    Posted 27 December 2013 - 21:19

    Hi,

    @J.j c'est tout à fait ça plus la création d'un nouvel effet applicable au bombes de 520 et 550 lb qui avaient le même effet que des bombes de 250 lb. Par contre c'est en beta car j'ai pas eu le temps de tester.
    J.j is quite right over the creation of a new effect for 520 and 550 lb bombs (The original had the same effect as 250 lb bombs). It is in beta because not had time to test.

    @Syn_Vander: Thanks !
    • 0

    #15 Waxworks

    Waxworks
    • Posts: 630

    Posted 06 January 2014 - 21:07

    As I am going to set up a test DM for the Tirpitz Batterie, I can test this also if you like.

    Is it possible to include the 280cm shells from the guns of the battery as new explosions/ballistics files though?

    Also, why is it e.g. 'Air/Building/ground/metal/Water 300'? Shouldn't water and metal have a more limited damage radius than air and ground???
    • 0

    #16 Genius

    Genius
    • Posts: 587

    Posted 06 January 2014 - 22:42

    @Waxworks, Yes thanks for your help. I have made also one mission test here riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=278&t=40307

    For the 280cm, yes we can made one file, do you have something info/beta files ?

    For the water, i simply copy the same process as original files (it is the same effect in game for all type) but you have reason, water impact should have reduced effect in radius.

    Not sure is needed for other impact model (this is the armor that must limit the damage and not the nature of the object) ?

    Bye
    Genius
    • 0

    #17 Waxworks

    Waxworks
    • Posts: 630

    Posted 09 January 2014 - 22:06

    Yes, I'd like to have water reduce effective blast radius. I'm also concerned that the tables only seem to go up to armour=20 and I'd like heavier armour in the game for the battery, which is easily the most massive armoured structure we have. Or have you just left out higher value armour columns where there is no effect?

    What info or data would be useful?

    The 28cm gun may have had 27750 yard range (higher than the ship-mounted version because of greater elevation). It might take 5-6 hits to sink a light cruiser. While the burst charge was perhaps 20 kg at most from a 300kg shell, cruiser armour would be easily penetrated. A 20kg burst might be the equivalent of a 40 kg bomb if armour penetration is not relevant. The British 6 inch gun that we have might have a 6kg burst charge, though as with the 28cm it depended on the ammunition chosen.

    Light cruisers are far too vulnerable to bombs in the current version and perhaps general damage needs to be revised rather than simply corrected for bugs? When I ran a test mission 'Battleships!' with the cruisers firing at each other it was just silly, not only do the cruisers either miss completely or hit far too frequently even on AI=low, but the cruisers are so fragile that a couple of hits is enough to cripple them, so that naval battles would last seconds without substantial trickery…
    • 0

    #18 Genius

    Genius
    • Posts: 587

    Posted 10 January 2014 - 00:16

    Hi,

    For the armor, i think is to indicate the lifepoint impact value for an armor greater or equal.

    Hms&german cruiser have 500'000 liferate and 150'000 liferatefg (expect for one section with respectly 100'000 and 50'000) with armor=20.

    German cruiser have 52 & 105 artillery
    - 52 (aaa) use SHELL_GER_77 (use flak explosion)
    - 52 use SHELL_GBR_50(use artillery/ground explosion)
    - 105 use SHELL_GBR_100 (use artillery/ground explosion)

    A direct impact of a shell_gbr_50&100 have:
    on impact: no info on ballistics luascripts but maybe on .bin files ?? see comments in red
    on explosion: 13'000 at radius=3

    Hms cruiser have 4 & 6 inch artillery
    - 4" (aaa) use SHELL_GBR_101 (use flak explosion)
    - 4" use SHELL_GBR_100 (use artillery/ground explosion)
    - 6" use SHELL_GBR_152 (use artillery/ground explosion & Ground152/metal152/etc…)
    A direct impact of a shell_gbr_152 have:
    on impact: no info on ballistics luascripts but maybe on .bin files ?? see comments in red
    on explosion: 13'000 at radius=3 for artillery ground


    Perhaps, we have two explosion effect because usually on ballistic luascript the final line are this type

    (shell_fr_75)
    HitArmorEffect="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Effects/shell_metal.txt" => seem to be graphics effect

    While the ballistic lua files using this line:
    (SHELL_GBR_152_ART)
    HitArmor="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Artillery/Metal152.txt" => explosion lifepoint effect (20'000 at radius=3 for armor=20)

    therefore it can be used two explosions effects:

    * one on 6 inch turret (worldobjects):
    BulletScript = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Land/SHELL_GBR_152_ART.txt"
    ExplosionScript = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Artillery/Ground.txt"

    * one SHELL_GBR_152_ART (ballistic/land):
    HitDummy="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Artillery/Air152.txt"
    HitWood="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Artillery/Ground152.txt"
    HitWater="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Artillery/Water152.txt"
    HitGround="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Artillery/Ground152.txt"
    HitArmor="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Artillery/Metal152.txt"
    HitBuilding="LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Artillery/Building152.txt"


    Theoric:
    only one explosion effect: 150'000 Liferatefg / 13'000 explosion effect = 12 gun fire to sink ship
    two explosion effect: 150'000 Liferatefg / (13'000+13'000) [or (13'000+20'000)] explosion effect = 6 gun fire (or 5) to sink ship


    It would be interesting to do two tests:
    1) just try to change lowest section liferate (50'000 to 150'000, no change on ballistic files
    2) just try to change ballistic files (suppress final line for explosion), no change on liferate

    Bye
    Genius
    • 0

    #19 Waxworks

    Waxworks
    • Posts: 630

    Posted 10 January 2014 - 15:57

    Even twelve hits from guns of that calibre should not sink a cruiser. The 6 inch gun has a hit factor of 20:13 compared to the 4 inch?

    However, is it possible that what appears in game as a near miss (water column) is also causing damage? Then all the guns would be hitting every time they fire, which would sink a cruiser in two salvoes.

    If we have a object target another object it will either hit it or near miss it. Firstly, near misses in water should have no effect, secondly armour should protect against near misses- or why have it at all?

    The tables I find odd. Armour 5 is basically a gun shield, while armour 20 is the 3 inch side armour of a cruiser, yet the differentiation seems minimal?. If that is correct it is equally as odd as the anomalies you pointed out earlier. While Rise of Flight is not a naval simulator or a tank simulator, should we fudge this sort of stuff to make objects far more destructible than they should be? Hopefully one day the game will have torpedo boats, which will make proper cruisers more acceptable!!
    • 0

    #20 Genius

    Genius
    • Posts: 587

    Posted 10 January 2014 - 23:27

    Hi,

    Even twelve hits from guns of that calibre should not sink a cruiser.

    No idea but I think it is to be aware that these shots were made at long distance on moving ships, maybe a few well placed shot on goal enough to destroy a cruiser?

    The 6 inch gun has a hit factor of 20:13 compared to the 4 inch?

    No, it seems that is a factor of 33:26 (20'000+13'000:13'000+13'000) but not sure.

    However, is it possible that what appears in game as a near miss (water column) is also causing damage? Then all the guns would be hitting every time they fire, which would sink a cruiser in two salvoes.

    Yes, i think because the water explosion have the same damage of other explosion in the same radius. (13'000 point at radius=3m and 3'000 point at radius=10m).

    Firstly, near misses in water should have no effect, secondly armour should protect against near misses- or why have it at all?

    Yes, no effect, or very reduced effect (we have blast effect)

    The tables I find odd. Armour 5 is basically a gun shield, while armour 20 is the 3 inch side armour of a cruiser, yet the differentiation seems minimal?.

    Yes, but we have only few shell which may cause damage to this type of armor.
    Here it is assumed that only the penetrating power makes the difference as a shell has a fixed explosive charge. A shell can penetrate armor 20 will create almost as much damage to an object with armor=5 than armor=20 - only 20/30% difference.

    Bye
    Genius
    • 0

    #21 Waxworks

    Waxworks
    • Posts: 630

    Posted 21 January 2014 - 20:09

    Your reference to ships sunk with a few hits might be to battlecruisers? Battlecruisers were large ships but they were not armoured to withstand any more than cruiser guns- admirals were warned not to put them in the line of battle and when they did the consequences became evident.

    Cruisers on the other hand were designed to resist hits from the guns they mounted. Arethusa, more or less one of the Royal Navy cruisers we have, took 35 hits at Heligoland Bight in 1914, then fought another engagement. While the ship was damaged so that the engines stopped before port, the ship was towed home.

    It might be more accurate to remove the blast effects from the naval guns, they didn't carry much of a bursting charge.

    When it comes to the bombs, realistic 20lb antipersonnel bombs would previously have been almost useless but if infantry appear then we can adjust them properly. A gunshield should stop them, so no penetration for armour=5.

    When the RAF used their 112lbs bombs to attack bridges during the Battle of Amiens in 1918, even direct hits had only a superficial effect. These bombs would not damage U-boats without a direct hit.

    There is no blast effect when a bomb drops into water though, or a very limited effect.. Is it possible to have altered tables for water or are you just in agreement that there should be?

    Can I manipulate the values myself if the tables exist? Then you could just make a dummy table for the German 280cm for the Tirpitz guns and I would adjust the values?
    • 0

    #22 Genius

    Genius
    • Posts: 587

    Posted 22 January 2014 - 00:50

    Hi,

    Yes battlecruiser, from french wiki http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillerie_navale

    En fonction des résultats observés, l'officier de tir va effectuer des « bonds » en gisement et en distance. Quand les gerbes encadreront la cible, il déclenchera le « tir d'efficacité », où tous les canons tireront le plus rapidement possible. Il peut aussi choisir le type d'obus. Les navires de ligne de l'époque emportent des « obus explosifs », qui éclatent au contact, et des « obus de rupture » qui doivent pénétrer le blindage avant d'exploser. L'efficacité de ces derniers décroît avec la portée. Ce sont trois obus de ce type, envoyés par SMS Von der Tann, qui couleront le HMS Indefatigable.
    Le nombre de coups au but est faible : 3 %8.

    Google traduction
    Depending on the results, the GPO will perform "jumps" in azimuth and distance. When the sheaves frame the target, it will trigger the "fire for effect", where all the guns will benefit as quickly as possible. He can also choose the type of shell. The liners of the time outweigh the "explosive rounds" that explode on contact, and "shell out" that must penetrate the armor before exploding. The effectiveness of the latter decreases with range. These are three rounds of this type, sent by SMS Von der Tann, who will sink the HMS Indefatigable.
    The number of shots on goal is low: 3% 8.

    HMS Indefatigable have a 150mm armor, the Arethusa have 25mm to 102mm of armor.It therefore depends on the type of ammunition used (AP or HE), the distance of the shot and place of impact.


    So, my proposal:

  • For water explosion, we can supress the lifepoint damage for armor strictly superior at 5 (>5)and for radius >x meter (first line radius for each type: 3 to 20 meters) because the luascript explosion are also used by bomb. On the radius <x meters (3 to 20) and with armor<=5, lifepoint damaged is reduced by 50% (?, no idea)


  • When it comes to the bombs, realistic 20lb antipersonnel bombs would previously have been almost useless but if infantry appear then we can adjust them properly. A gunshield should stop them, so no penetration for armour=5.
  • Yes for infantry but some vehicules in rof have an armor=5 (like g8 locomotive). If i modify, we will not have damaged for this train (other wagon have armor=0). But no problem for me.


  • For the 280mm, the APC (anti-armor) shells have 9kg of bursting charge www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_11-45_skc07.htm. It seem that big gun only use explosion effect and don't have ballistic luascripts, i think it's because the fire is on tight shot (not curve) but i have do some test and i've found an alternative.

  • My test on a copy of a 75mm artillery:
    * I have modified the position of the attached "turret" at 500 meter (position= 0.0, 500.0, 0), (in the default position, 0.720m, they don't touch the target at long distance, they bounce before the target) and the attack distance (10000 km)
    * I have also modified the ballistic table of the shell like this
    DefaultStartSpeed=922
    MaxDistance=6675
    Armor1=100,922, 10,3000, 5,5000, 0,8500
    Armor2=500,888, 5,3500, 0,7000
    Armor3=1000,846, 5,3000, 0,5500
    Armor4=10001,350, 5,1000, 0,3000
    It's work ! :P (test at 6/7km distance to the target)

    If you want to propose value in a format table like this, you are welcome (format are armorx=distance, speed, couple armor/lifepoint damaged). Same for the type of explosion used (see one of my prevous post) or any other proposal :S!:

    In the lua of the gun turret you can also determine wich type of munition (bulletscripts line) are used depending on the armor of the target (PriorityArmorMin/Max line), like 75mm (Armor 0 to 5 = HE shells / Armor >=5 = AP shells):

    [bullet=1]
    BulletScript = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Land/SHELL_FR_75_OF.txt"
    ExplosionScript = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/Small/Ground.txt"
    BulletsCount = 100
    StartBulletSpeed = 465.0
    RealPhysicBullet = false
    PriorityArmorMin = 0.0
    PriorityArmorMax = 5.0
    [end]

    [bullet=2]
    BulletScript = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Land/SHELL_FR_75_B.txt"
    ExplosionScript = ""
    BulletsCount = 100
    StartBulletSpeed = 500.0
    RealPhysicBullet = false
    PriorityArmorMin = 5.0
    [end]

    Sorry for my english, litle tired :xx:

    Genius
    • 0

    #23 Waxworks

    Waxworks
    • Posts: 630

    Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:21

    That's what I tried to point out though, that the battlecruiser engagements were far from typical for WW1 naval battles. Indefatigable might have had 50% more armour than light cruiser(!) but the 3 hits on Indefatigable were from 280cm shells like the Tirpitz battery, not the 35 105mm hits from the German light cruiser that Aretusa withstood. Also, Indefatigable probably suffered a magazine explosion, because of insufficient armour compared to the size of shell. Ships should always be vulnerable to critical hits, but it doesn't imply that these are normal.

    I doubt that a 20lb bomb would damage a locomotive, they were shrapnel bombs designed for use against infantry. Also, even to penetrate thin metal a HE bomb of this size would need to be fixed onto the target and use a shaped charge.

    I'll make an attempt at realistic proposals. What does armour=1, armour=2 etc refer to, though?

    So is the minimum radius for an explosion 3-20 meters??? An AP shell should have no damage radius at all. Though an unarmoured target might be damaged by a bomb miss on water, it would have to be fairly close. The radius at which a 230lb bomb would damage a U-boat was supposed to be 40 feet. A 100lb bomb required a direct hit.
    • 0

    #24 unreasonable

    unreasonable
    • Posts: 1452
    • LocationBangkok

    Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:46

    Apologies for butting in but as you guys seem to know what you are talking about I thought I would ask a question: how does RoF deal with the ballistics of shellfire, in respect of the trajectory of projectiles through the air and how the AI points the gun in order to hit a specific target.

    I have searched for threads on this topic without success.
    • 0

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Mencken


    #25 SYN_Vander

    SYN_Vander
    • Tester
    • Posts: 4710

    Posted 22 January 2014 - 12:49

    Apologies for butting in but as you guys seem to know what you are talking about I thought I would ask a question: how does RoF deal with the ballistics of shellfire, in respect of the trajectory of projectiles through the air and how the AI points the gun in order to hit a specific target.

    I have searched for threads on this topic without success.

    Howitzers will fire shells with a ballistic trajectory. You can put them behind a hill and they can still hit their target. The gun will be aimed accordingly.
    In the config file for a gun (turret/shell) it is defined if a shell is real or not. I guess this determines if the shell can actually hit something while flying through the air, but I'm not sure. For howitzers I think this is set to "false".
    • 0

    #26 unreasonable

    unreasonable
    • Posts: 1452
    • LocationBangkok

    Posted 23 January 2014 - 03:28

    Howitzers will fire shells with a ballistic trajectory. You can put them behind a hill and they can still hit their target. The gun will be aimed accordingly.
    In the config file for a gun (turret/shell) it is defined if a shell is real or not. I guess this determines if the shell can actually hit something while flying through the air, but I'm not sure. For howitzers I think this is set to "false".

    Thanks for info: I have got to the stage of flying RoF that I am spending more time thinking about how things work that looking around for bandits!

    My interest at the moment is flak guns: I always wondered why, at heights over about 10,000 ft, the flak bursts are 99% below the height of the target and also below the line of sight from target to gun (less sure about this). This would be consistent with the shell having a true ballistic trajectory but the elevation being set on a straight line to target basis. At lower heights the error would be smaller and not noticeable. Not that I mind that they miss!

    Anyway appreciate the you taking the time to reply and so I will let you gents get on with your work: which as a non-modding mod user I appreciate greatly. :S!:
    • 0

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Mencken


    #27 Genius

    Genius
    • Posts: 587

    Posted 23 January 2014 - 22:48

    Hi,

    Understand for 20 lb bombs and big shells impact.

    What does armour=1, armour=2 etc refer to, though?
    If you talk about ballistic lua (LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Ballistics/Land/), Is to classify by thick armor (don't know, if the value is realistic, thick of armor in cm ?): example armor=5, armor=10, armor=20, etc…

    If you talk about explosion lua (LuaScripts/WorldObjects/Explosions/), the number refer to the line of the data table, ex: Armor1="distance in meters","speed", "Armor type", "Lifepoint damaged", etc…


    So is the minimum radius for an explosion 3-20 meters??? An AP shell should have no damage radius at all.

    Don't sure to understand if your ask a question or not. This value is determinated on explosion luascripts just after ArmourFougx=, example:
    ArmorFoug1=3, -1, 20,13000, 10,14000, 5,15000, 0,16000
    First line of the table= 3 meters radius, ??, 13000 point damaged for armor>=20, 14000 point damaged for armor>=10, 15000 point damaged for armor>=5, 16000 point damaged for armor>=0)

    For AP shells, not sure because you have also explosive charge (less than a HE), no (I do not know much in this area) ?. Moreover, the ballistics luascripts allows to model the same decrease of power according to the distance of penetration.


    Here somme data sheet table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArtXcacWGhIxdHFKRHdhY2lnZWxCQ0xQSWpHMzMxWlE&usp=sharing

    Bye

    Genius
    • 0


    0 user(s) are reading this topic

    0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users