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[MOD] RoF Refined 1.033c


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#81 gavagai

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 21:36

It makes the gunners shoot worse and react more slowly.
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#82 HotTom

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 23:32

Now we're up to version 4 of the Mod To End All Mods and, as before, it is really getting about confusing what is in it. Nice to provide you with a hobby, but in its "one size fits all" configuration, I'm not sure I want all the parts. Is there any way you can upload it as separate Mods?
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#83 gavagai

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 23:59

HT, the only additional thing here from 2 updates ago is a test with the old trees on the channel map. If it looks like a lot it's only because I've tweaked some stuff that was there before. When I am done playing with stuff I will make separate mod folders, ok?
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#84 HotTom

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 00:05

HT, the only additional thing here from 2 updates ago is a test with the old trees on the channel map. If it looks like a lot it's only because I've tweaked some stuff that was there before. When I am done playing with stuff I will make separate mod folders, ok?

I would appreciate that. I had many of the Mods that are in the package already installed (manually) and just want to try out the new stuff. :S!:
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#85 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 01:24

HT, the only additional thing here from 2 updates ago is a test with the old trees on the channel map. If it looks like a lot it's only because I've tweaked some stuff that was there before. When I am done playing with stuff I will make separate mod folders, ok?

I would appreciate that. I had many of the Mods that are in the package already installed (manually) and just want to try out the new stuff. :S!:

HT: If you download separately mods included in package (gav has posted them all in a separate thread) and compare different versions of mods, directory by directory, it's most often easy to figure out what each file does and delete the ones you don't want from before applying JSGME. Or you can just compare gav's mod and your RoF directory side by side, and delete from mod files you already had (in unmoded game these directories are empty, right?).

Gav: I would appreciate that as well. In meantime, would it be possible for you to maintain a list of locations of component mods? It would require writing down once, but then it just needs adding a text line when you add a new mod.

Example:
(loading screens) data/swf
(bombs and bullets) data/luascripts/worldobjects/ballistics
(oil effect) data/graphics/textures/effects/oil.tga
(weapons) data/luascript/worldobjects/weapons/
(lens effect) data/graphics/sky/textures/lens (lens mod)
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#86 flugkapitan

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:47

Greetings all!

Sorry to sound a little dense, but over the course of reading 9 pages of posts I seem to have gotten a little lost :? Does refined 0.14 still affect the snap views as was mentioned in the early posts of this thread or was that an issue in the refined 0.1*'s prior to 0.14?

Cheers,
Scott
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#87 gavagai

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:49

That was a silly mistake on my part flugkapitan, and it has been fixed for a while now. Don't let it stop you from trying the mod.
:S!:
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#88 flugkapitan

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:53

Now that was a fast reply :D

Thank you, sir! :S!:

Cheers,
Scott
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#89 gavagai

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 22:03

I'll take it as a good sign that no one is posting here. Again, please let me know if there are problems. I'm taking some time to just fly and enjoy the mod. Right now I'm also using fubar's landscape mod and it is very nice.

Too bad the AI logic is totally screwed up, and I can't do anything about it. I encounter so many enemy AI that will not engage and just circle mindlessly.
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#90 Pierre2

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:12

Hi Gav, I'm 1400 kms away from home at the moment visiting grand kids and haven't flown since my last post. Home this Wednesday and will be flying again then. Hope to be able to give you some feedback sometime soon thereafter.
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#91 Hellshade

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 11:02

Too bad the AI logic is totally screwed up, and I can't do anything about it. I encounter so many enemy AI that will not engage and just circle mindlessly.

I've been having that problem too in PWCG ever since I switched to the latest version. I was using an early version of beta 14 and the fights were fantastic. Don't seem to be having the problem in Quick Missions, so I hope Pat is working on it. Generally only 1 enemy at a time will engage me and it will be almost completely defensive, not showing any signs of life until I get right close. His buddies just keep flying on as if nothing is happening.
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#92 gavagai

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 23:58

I have the same problem in the Beta career hellshade, it is not the fault of PWCG.
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#93 Hellshade

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 13:31

I have the same problem in the Beta career hellshade, it is not the fault of PWCG.

Well I certainly appreciate all of Pats work, so it doesn't really surprise me that this isn't his doing. With 777s resources pretty much all directed at BOS I suppose we can expect this kind of AI behavior for awhile. I hope I'm wrong, but it's just one more reason I'm really looking forward to WOFF. According to the Devs there, they have completely reworked the AI to show a lot more skill, especially when at low altitudes. I hope it ships soon and that they really have improved it considerably.
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#94 Dads1958

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 20:11

Hellshade from day one OFF had better AI then ROF. Not by a lot but some. I will buy WOFF if they ever release it.
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#95 Sabre

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 15:07

Hellshade from day one OFF had better AI then ROF. Not by a lot but some. I will buy WOFF if they ever release it.

+1

Sabre.
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#96 Hellshade

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 16:01

It really does, in my opinion too. The one major challenge I had with OFF AI is that if I put a few rounds into an Alb, the EA tended to try and climb too steep in an effort to escape. With some decent gunnery skills, you could fill your target with holes while it hung in a stalled "T" position at the top of it's climb, often resulting in an overly easy kill.

There have been some mods by HPW that really helped to curtail this problem though. He's done some other fine work on the Damage Models as well. I'm hoping the Devs have really taken WOFF AI up a couple of levels beyond this. I know from what I saw in the Preview 1 movie clip, they showed a DR 1 at low level do a damn fine job of giving the slip to a pair of camels by banking hard and reversing course right at tree top level. The camels overshot and the DR 1 looked ready to re-engage the Camels who suddenly found their prey had become the hunter on their 6. I hope it's that good most of the time.
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#97 Dads1958

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 20:58

OFF has been off my hard drive for some time now. So never tried HPW's mods for it. May have to try it again before they release WOFF. At least they had a real Alb DV.
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#98 Dutch2

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 21:13

Hellshade from day one OFF had better AI then ROF. Not by a lot but some. I will buy WOFF if they ever release it.

+1

Sabre.


And I will wait untill they will drop the prices, I was a big fool in buying OFF3 when this game did enter the scene in 2009. That was €20,- to expensive!!!!!!!! And looking at there new video I do not see any improvements for a better grahics.
About the AI, wow I still can remember the gunner in the 2seater, according to the txt in the OSD, I hit him, but it seems he was like a terminator and could face hunderds of bullets. So more perfect AI no.
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#99 HotTom

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:05

Guys, OFF has much better atmosphere and a better sense of history than RoF. But when it comes to the plane models, there is no comparison. RoF has better models (even with the FM problems) and is more challenging to fly. OFF still is just the very arcade CFS3 with a facelift and lots of rain to cover the poor graphics.

But if you guys want to migrate there, don't let the screen door etc. ;-)
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#100 Dutch2

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 22:19

I have the same problem in the Beta career hellshade, it is not the fault of PWCG.

Well I certainly appreciate all of Pats work, so it doesn't really surprise me that this isn't his doing. With 777s resources pretty much all directed at BOS I suppose we can expect this kind of AI behavior for awhile. I hope I'm wrong, but it's just one more reason I'm really looking forward to WOFF. According to the Devs there, they have completely reworked the AI to show a lot more skill, especially when at low altitudes. I hope it ships soon and that they really have improved it considerably.

I'm waiting for Wings Over Flanders Fields to be released.
Everything else is just killing time.


You are quite clear on your quote on the SimHQ OFF-forum Hellshade, sorry we did waste your time with this RoFgame. :S!:
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#101 Hellshade

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 00:59

and that's really how I feel. I'm just killing time. If somebody would fix the AI and FM in ROF, I might feel differently but until 777 is willing and able to put a lot more of their resources back into ROF instead of BOS, my big hope for a great WWI flight sim rests with WOFF. There are some truly fantastic modders in ROF and I deeply appreciate what they have contributed but there are aspects of the sim that they simply cannot touch.

It may turn out that I am disappointed by WOFF too. I won't know until it shows up, but right now to me it looks like my best hope for an improved AI.

All that said, I have fun "killing time" with ROF so I don't consider it a waste of time. I just don't have any real expectation of improvement in the areas I would like to see most because the modders can't do it and 777 currently won't do it.
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#102 Dads1958

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 02:29

Hellshade I have purchased all planes for ROF plus field Mods and Weapon mods save two weapon mods. (300.00 plus US) So no one can say I am not a ROF supporter. I will get WOFF if they ever finish it but it will never look a good as ROF. The AI was generally better in OFF but the flight model was not, probably why OFF is no longer on my hard drive. If ROF had as many planes as WOFF I would never even consider WOFF. One can hope 777 will soon allow 3D mods for aircraft in the future as BOS if done right will be the new IL21946 and ROF will be the redheaded step child. I appreciate the fact that 777 allows some mods like ROF refined at least.
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#103 gavagai

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:04

Fine discussion, but you guys need to be clear about your terms. Yes, the flight physics in Rise of Flight are excellent. Hellshade is criticizing the crazy representation of some aircraft in Rise of Flight, like the Nieuport 28 and Albatros, and I gather that OFF is more like the history in that respect.
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#104 Dutch2

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 07:40

and that's really how I feel. I'm just killing time. If somebody would fix the AI and FM in ROF, I might feel differently but until 777 is willing and able to put a lot more of their resources back into ROF instead of BOS, my big hope for a great WWI flight sim rests with WOFF. There are some truly fantastic modders in ROF and I deeply appreciate what they have contributed but there are aspects of the sim that they simply cannot touch.

It may turn out that I am disappointed by WOFF too. I won't know until it shows up, but right now to me it looks like my best hope for an improved AI.

All that said, I have fun "killing time" with ROF so I don't consider it a waste of time. I just don't have any real expectation of improvement in the areas I would like to see most because the modders can't do it and 777 currently won't do it.

Think that is not what your saying in the OFF3 fanforum, here read his post hellshades timewaste remark but why not put in your criticism of OFF3 into the OFF3fan forum, I can not image that this OFF game is 100% perfect for you. Seems nobody have the guts to put some critic on OFF3 into that fan forum. Even Olham is afraid to show his name into this RoF forum, afraid of sanctions of his fellow OFFfans.
So why do OFF fanboys always here put the same ancient critics over and over, and be so nice to the OFFgame on there own forum. :?

Sorry Hellshade and other OFF fanboys for my hard words, but I think it is not fair for this great game that like OFF3 does also have some faults, nothing is perfect in life, we can only show respect to the publishers that did take the risc.
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#105 gavagai

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 14:12

The planes in OFF are just too easy to fly to be credible. You actually have to work at it to make them crash.

I know someone modded the flight models in OFF to address that shortcoming. Did it help?
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#106 HotTom

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 16:03

Beats me. I flew OFF first. After RoF came out, I tried flying both for awhile but the flight experience was so much better in RoF that OFF was soon in my rear view mirror. There's only so much that can be done with CFS3. If it's been improved with a Mod, it's news to me.
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#107 karnak

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 18:25

RoF with PWCG would be great if the AI would not be that f….. up. Its a shame that 777 dont fix that because the AI was not always that bad and they can correct it if they want to.

Sorry for my bad english.
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#108 hq_Jorri

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 19:59

lots of rain to cover the poor graphics.

:lol: :lol: I never looked at it that way, but I do believe you're right.

It's not the graphics that turned me off OFF. It was the crappy GUI, the lack of unity in quality of cockpits (some planes had that horrible first person pilot model that ruined the whole thing), and the easy physics. I'll give WOFF a try since it seems to adress at least some of that.

But in the meantime, RoF has done very well in filling up its stable and catching up with the amount of planes OFF has to offer. RoF has nothing to be ashamed of any more in this regard.

I don't think RoF has a good modding community. I think it has one of the worst modding communities ever. That's despite the efforts of some great individuals, like Gavagai, Ankor and Vanderstok. And thanks to the limited interest for a WWI flightsim (compared to WWII or otherwise), and also a lack of effort from 777 (Gavagai fixing basic stuff that took him hours to figure out, and would have taken 777 minutes to do……also what happend to that mods website Jason announced?).
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#109 Hellshade

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 21:48

Sorry Hellshade and other OFF fanboys for my hard words, but I think it is not fair for this great game that like OFF3 does also have some faults, nothing is perfect in life, we can only show respect to the publishers that did take the risc.

Well Dutch2, if you want to get all stirred up because people have preferences, go for it. There a lot of things to like about ROF and a lot of things to like about OFF. Both have their problems too. Since no sim is perfect, folks tend to gravitate to the one that mostly supports the things that they are looking for. A few folks even fly both.

Both sims have their high points. Both sims have areas that they need work in. Whichever one you find most enjoyable, fly it and enjoy it sir. As HT has said many times, "If you want to fly a WWI plane, fly ROF. If you want to fly in WWI, fly OFF." I couldn't agree more.

My point about "killing time" until WOFF ships is that right now, they are the only developer putting their full resources into producing or improving a WWI flight sim. So the next major advances should hopefully come from there. If 777 suddenly drops a big patch that fixes a bunch of things or adds new features, I'll be the first to be appreciative of the efforts. Each time either sim advances, as far as I'm concerned, it's a win for the WWI community.

If my attitude bothers you, I guess you'll just have to live it. I think I'm less a fanboy of OFF than you are just a rabid defender of ROF. The war was between the Germans and the Allies. If you want to make it between two flight sims, be my guest. I have no idea what you hope to prove or win though.

And for the record, if I was out to destroy ROF or if I hated it, I probably wouldn't have close to 100 videos of Rise of Flight on my youtube page. Don't let simple facts get in the way of your crusade though sir. No good zelot ever does.

Hellshade Videos
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#110 Hellshade

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 21:50

RoF with PWCG would be great if the AI would not be that f….. up. Its a shame that 777 dont fix that because the AI was not always that bad and they can correct it if they want to.

Sorry for my bad english.

I agree entirely.
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#111 hq_Jorri

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 23:29

Hellshade, staying out of that argument I still want to say, I've always been happy to see that you branched out from OFF and shown your appreciation for RoF, you're an asset to both communities :S!:
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#112 gavagai

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 23:39

Oooh, actually got attacked by an AI last PWCG mission. Yipee!
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#113 Hellshade

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:59

Oooh, actually got attacked by an AI last PWCG mission. Yipee!

You lucky dawg! I've only run three missions with PWCG 15/2 so far and no luck. Only the plane I specifically engage has any interest in defending itself. The rest just fly on like nothing has happened. :(
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#114 Dutch2

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 07:52

Sorry Hellshade and other OFF fanboys for my hard words, but I think it is not fair for this great game that like OFF3 does also have some faults, nothing is perfect in life, we can only show respect to the publishers that did take the risc.

Well Dutch2, if you want to get all stirred up because people have preferences, go for it. There a lot of things to like about ROF and a lot of things to like about OFF. Both have their problems too. Since no sim is perfect, folks tend to gravitate to the one that mostly supports the things that they are looking for. A few folks even fly both.

Both sims have their high points. Both sims have areas that they need work in. Whichever one you find most enjoyable, fly it and enjoy it sir. As HT has said many times, "If you want to fly a WWI plane, fly ROF. If you want to fly in WWI, fly OFF." I couldn't agree more.

My point about "killing time" until WOFF ships is that right now, they are the only developer putting their full resources into producing or improving a WWI flight sim. So the next major advances should hopefully come from there. If 777 suddenly drops a big patch that fixes a bunch of things or adds new features, I'll be the first to be appreciative of the efforts. Each time either sim advances, as far as I'm concerned, it's a win for the WWI community.

If my attitude bothers you, I guess you'll just have to live it. I think I'm less a fanboy of OFF than you are just a rabid defender of ROF. The war was between the Germans and the Allies. If you want to make it between two flight sims, be my guest. I have no idea what you hope to prove or win though.

And for the record, if I was out to destroy ROF or if I hated it, I probably wouldn't have close to 100 videos of Rise of Flight on my youtube page. Don't let simple facts get in the way of your crusade though sir. No good zelot ever does.

Hellshade Videos

Then show you have guts and put in the same criticism you have for RoF, also about OFF into the OFF forum, that is my point. I have nothing against you or OFF, like OFF3 I'm going to buy the next release, only I hate to see people only have criticism here and not on the OFFfan forum.
That is my point!!!
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#115 karnak

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 09:36

Now i have testet PWCG 15/2 and the AI of the Nieuports was the same but the Sopwith Triplanes comes after me and actualy wants to fight and shoots at me. Is it possible that the AI of some planes work and some not?

My own group will hunt and fight the enemy normal so it should be easy for 777 to do it with the opponents the same way or am i wrong? At least they could help our modders and tell them how to work with the AI.

Pat put so much effort in his generator and i love it, it would be sad if the AI destroys the whole feeling.
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#116 gavagai

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 13:08

Everyone, please try this: Go to your PWCG configuration, and set the scout skill levels to 98% Veteran, 1% Normal, 1% Novice. According to Bucksnort it could be the AI skill level that is preventing them from waking up and taking action.

My guess is that someone at 777 was tinkering with the AI logic to make the skill levels behave more differently, and what we see is an unintended consequence. Sometimes I wonder if anyone at 777 actually tries to play their own game (and not just the QMB).

If it doesn't work, then that's one more thing we know is not causing the problem.
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#117 Hellshade

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 13:59

Then show you have guts and put in the same criticism you have for RoF, also about OFF into the OFF forum, that is my point. I have nothing against you or OFF, like OFF3 I'm going to buy the next release, only I hate to see people only have criticism here and not on the OFFfan forum.
That is my point!!!

OFF is no longer being worked on by the Developers. Hasn't been for nearly 4 years now. They are pouring all of their resources into the next version of the sim, WOFF. Any criticisms I have made about OFF or that others have made in the past, such as no multiplayer support, simplified damage model, engines exploding out of the planes (man I hate that), the need for better AI etc, the Devs have already either directly stated or implied through pre-release screenshots and movies that they are working on addressing. What rational point is there in continuing to point out what you don't like about a sim when the Devs have already stated they are working on it for the new version of the game?

I bet if 777 were to come out and say "We are completely revamping the AI and flight models" people here might at first fill the forum with their preferences for how it will be fixed, but really at a certain point it makes absolutely no sense at all to keep criticizing something that you already know is being addressed.

Point of fact, the reason ODB (the devs of OFF/WOFF) decided to make an entirely new version of the sim is they saw so many different things that could be improved upon they realized it was going to take a complete re-write of the sim to make it happen. They patched up OFF and it's expansion pretty well but eventually they realized that's not going to cut it. It needed to be re-written from the ground up.

If you want to keep criticizing something that the devs say they are already working on, go for it. Rational people see no purpose in that.

I'm sure you'll continue to rail away at me. For the record, I don't care.
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#118 karnak

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 15:08

@gavagai

i have now tried Bucksnorts options. My first flight…. i encounter a group of sopwith pups and after all the last boring hunting i went alone against them…. my plane was ripped appart :-)
They all were fighting and i was the prey. Finally i had a big smile on my face so i will try now different campaigns in different years to check this out.
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#119 Dutch2

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 16:58

Then show you have guts and put in the same criticism you have for RoF, also about OFF into the OFF forum, that is my point. I have nothing against you or OFF, like OFF3 I'm going to buy the next release, only I hate to see people only have criticism here and not on the OFFfan forum.
That is my point!!!

OFF is no longer being worked on by the Developers. Hasn't been for nearly 4 years now. They are pouring all of their resources into the next version of the sim, WOFF. Any criticisms I have made about OFF or that others have made in the past, such as no multiplayer support, simplified damage model, engines exploding out of the planes (man I hate that), the need for better AI etc, the Devs have already either directly stated or implied through pre-release screenshots and movies that they are working on addressing. What rational point is there in continuing to point out what you don't like about a sim when the Devs have already stated they are working on it for the new version of the game?

I bet if 777 were to come out and say "We are completely revamping the AI and flight models" people here might at first fill the forum with their preferences for how it will be fixed, but really at a certain point it makes absolutely no sense at all to keep criticizing something that you already know is being addressed.

Point of fact, the reason ODB (the devs of OFF/WOFF) decided to make an entirely new version of the sim is they saw so many different things that could be improved upon they realized it was going to take a complete re-write of the sim to make it happen. They patched up OFF and it's expansion pretty well but eventually they realized that's not going to cut it. It needed to be re-written from the ground up.

If you want to keep criticizing something that the devs say they are already working on, go for it. Rational people see no purpose in that.

I'm sure you'll continue to rail away at me. For the record, I don't care.

I do not know what you mean about rail away at me, but I can tell you I keep on critical to those ass lickers that are very nice to OFF and leaving the garbage here.

777 is reading all the things that should be improved and they can not go for bos and rof at the same time but believe me that all the improvements in bos will be into rof.

We should have patience and enjoy both games. I'm also very curios about next gen OFF, because I can tell you, I also miss the OFF campaign mode.
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#120 Hellshade

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  • Posts: 786

Posted 10 November 2013 - 17:12

I do not know what you mean about rail away at me, but I can tell you I keep on critical to those ass lickers that are very nice to OFF and leaving the garbage here.

So I should keep criticizing OFF for things the Devs have already said they are fixing in the new release, and I shouldn't voice my opinion about the things 777 hasn't fixed for some time nor have they yet publically committed to fixing? Pretty sure I'm not the "ass licker" here sir.

Definition of a fanatic: A person who cannot change their mind and will not change the subject.
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