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[MOD] RoF Refined 1.033c


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#41 elephant

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 13:59

Thanks for everything, gav! :)
AI seeing and shooting through objects is just absurd in an "advanced" combat sim… :roll:
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#42 gavagai

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 14:07

So, at what angle should the Fee gunner be able to fire to the rear?

Image
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#43 Hellshade

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 17:58

Thanks for everything, gav! :)
AI seeing and shooting through objects is just absurd in an "advanced" combat sim… :roll:


I read OBD is solving that problem in WOFF by making the pilot maneuver so that his rear gunner can make the shot. The AI is also supposed to be dangerous even when flying low to the ground. I hope they have found a way to keep the fights up high to begin with and not let them descend too far down but if they can't do that, good low level combat AI will suffice.
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#44 Pierre2

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 21:49

One thing I have noticed is that prior to loading this I could get away with getting under a 2 seater out of view of the rear gunner and occasionally downing one. Now it is suicide, they get me every time.

Gav, I wasn't just talking about the Fee with this. Since incorporating this mod it has happened every time I have tried the tactic of getting under any 2 seater where the gunner shouldn't be able to fire through the fuselarge. This was fixed in a previous mod, has your mod changed this?

This is not a complaint, merely a question as I like others appreciate you efforts.
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#45 gavagai

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 22:49

I just tried to add some sector limits to the Fee and they were totally ignored. I wonder if this feature has been removed from RoF? I'm investigating Pierre, standby.

P.S. Yes, I was the one who fixed that previously.

————

Sector limits still work for the other two seaters. Not sure what's going on with the Fee.

Pierre, which two seater are you fighting specifically? Can you take a screenshot of the gunner firing through a solid part so I have some idea where to look for a fix?
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#46 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 23:03

I think the problem with sector limits came out like that because gav's gunner AIs are more aggressive; with more docile stock AIs wider field of fire was sort-of balanced out.

That means that if the gunner can see you between his aircraft's wings, he'll shoot between the wings.

Out of curiosity, do you know if they can shoot through propeller? Or see you between propeller blades? They seem to be shooting quite close to own engine block.

I'll look into some reasonable sector limits for the next revision.

Thank you :S!: !
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#47 gavagai

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 23:19

Oh yeah, they'll shoot through the propeller if you let them. The Fee gunner does that a lot.

Just figured out the Fee gunner. He is turned around 180 degrees compared to the other gunners (makes sense). Now I know how to stop him from shooting between the wings and propeller. Should we let him shoot between the wings? Through the engine block and propeller is obviously wrong. I don't know if anyone had the balls to shoot between the wings of their own wire-braced biplane.

Again, if you see a gunner firing through solid parts, take a pic and post it so I know where to look for a fix.
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#48 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 01:02

Just figured out the Fee gunner. He is turned around 180 degrees compared to the other gunners (makes sense). Now I know how to stop him from shooting between the wings and propeller. Should we let him shoot between the wings? Through the engine block and propeller is obviously wrong. I don't know if anyone had the balls to shoot between the wings of their own wire-braced biplane.
Yes it does. Maybe that's why Fee has such a huge lift capacity.

Again, if you see a gunner firing through solid parts, take a pic and post it so I know where to look for a fix.
[

Hard to see if he's shooting through wing or not from the distance, but I hear shots in replay when taking screenshots and split second later I'm wounded. Have a track recorded but can't attach it here.

Attached Files


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#49 gavagai

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 01:19

Thanks. I already know about the Fee. Pierre was saying that other two-seaters were firing through solid aircraft parts, too. The easiest way to confirm it is to use the QMB and switch to spectate view and watch the observer shoot.
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#50 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 01:43

Right, you wrote "if you see gunner firing" and I've read "If you see Fee gunner firing" :oops: . Sorry.

But at least the gunner firing through struts looks the part.
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#51 gavagai

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 01:55

Yes, it does! Stand by for a fix in just a few minutes.

———-

0.12 posted.
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#52 Pierre2

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:44

Thanks Gav. Not home at present so can't download yet. I take it we delete 0.11 and replace it with this or does it incorporate into 0.11?
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#53 gavagai

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:42

Sure, you can delete 0.11. It's too big to post as an attachment here at the forums now, so I'm hosting it with mediafire (ugh).
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#54 gavagai

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 14:28

0.13 posted. Just a small fix so that balloons can still be flamed with 7.7mm ammunition.
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#55 gavagai

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 21:38

Woops, I just found a fourth type of balloon. I will have to adjust the armor for that one, too.

So far I have:

drachen
aetype
parseval
caquot

Are there other types of balloons?
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#56 J.j.

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 23:21

No, I think that is all. Two types for Allies, two types for Germans.
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#57 gavagai

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 01:50

How do you all like the trees on the channel map? It's pretty easy to switch them out for the old trees, which I kind of prefer. They're not as detailed as the channel map trees, but I think they look better from the air and they are more fps friendly.
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#58 Blade_meister

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 03:39

How do you all like the trees on the channel map? It's pretty easy to switch them out for the old trees, which I kind of prefer. They're not as detailed as the channel map trees, but I think they look better from the air and they are more fps friendly.

Wow, that is weird, I was flying a Mission on the Channel map last night and I was thinking, what the heck happened to the trees? I thought they changed them to help performance. :lol: IMHO I like the old ones better. Gavagai, does the AI gunner mod make the AI gunners I fight against, me in a Scout, them in a 2 Seater, more lethal? I made one Fast diving pass from probably a 2 Seaters' 1 o'clock high, firing on the way in and passing right behind and through his six and climbed out, and the gunner, bloodied me, oiled me and and killed me when I was quite far away at the top of my climb? I'll admit, I suck at killing 2 Seaters, always have, but they seem more lethal since I started using your mod. If so, how would I get back to the original crappy ROF AI that I sometimes stand a chance against ?


S!Blade<><
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#59 HotTom

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 03:47

If swapping the trees will help performance, go for it!
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#60 gavagai

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 10:46

Ok, I'll do some more tests with the trees.

Blade, yes, what you get with the gunners now is like a human gunner at the controls. They are f'ing dangerous! I may adjust the novice and normal down a bit in the future, but no nerf. My advice is to avoid the gunner's field of fire and attack in groups. They are not supermen. They still fire too low and if you watch from the pilot's seat, they still miss. If you can see the gunner standing up and aiming his weapon at you, go evasive asap: a snap roll usually does the trick.

In the meantime, you can always enable avimimus' gunners after RoF Refined. I hear they miss a bit more than these ones.
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#61 Pierre2

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 11:20

Gav, there are several Avimimus gunners mods, what one should we use?
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#62 gavagai

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 11:23

Don't know, I never use them. Tell you what. I'll make an AI gunner nerf and upload it to the OP. Just enable it after you enable RoF Refined.

————-

Done. Default AI gunners are available in the OP.
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#63 Pierre2

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 12:37

That would certainly be the best solution. Many thanks.
As an aside, I have uploaded 0.13 and just used it on a beta career Fee balloon busting mission. The gunner was firing low and left constantly. 4 a/c and the balloon was unaffected.
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#64 gavagai

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 12:56

Yes Pierre, that is a bug in RoF, not this mod. All gunners are firing too low at targets.

P.S. You are going to be very disappointed with your Fee gunner after you revert to default gunners. :o
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#65 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 15:17

Done. Default AI gunners are available in the OP.

Does it set AI of gunners on player-piloted planes to default, too, or are they separate mods? Sorry for cherry-picking question, but default gunners on AI planes were dangerous already while gunners of player planes really need the mod, so I want to know want I'm nerfing :).
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#66 gavagai

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 15:23

default gunners on AI planes were dangerous already while gunners of player planes really need the mod.

They were never different. Your own gunner and the gunners of AI aircraft use the same targeting script.
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#67 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 17:03

Thanks for clarification.
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#68 Pierre2

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 00:26

Yes Pierre, that is a bug in RoF, not this mod. All gunners are firing too low at targets.

P.S. You are going to be very disappointed with your Fee gunner after you revert to default gunners. :o
p

Thanks for the advice, I will ensure that I disconnect the a avimimus mod before I fly the Fee.
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#69 gavagai

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 01:50

Ok everyone, the old trees work fine on the channel map. They even show up in the right places. Should we give it a go? With more testing, it seems like the major fps hit on the channel map is not from the trees, but from the layer of ocean that is underneath all of the terrain.
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#70 Blade_meister

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:45

Thanks gavagai for the gunner nerf. I would like to try the old trees . It seems like the water under all land tiles has been problem with many sims and i can't understand why someone hasn't figured a better way yet?

Edit: gavagai, does ROF refined .013 include the Camel Ai mod( Camel 1 , Camel 2) that you were playing around with(i know Camel one was the mod to allow turning left & right for better AI maneuvers) ???

S!Blade<><
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#71 gavagai

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:54

Yes, it does Blade. This Camel turns better to the right than default, and it will also turn left. I've experimented with having the Dr1 turn left, and the fact is that the AI cannot do it. It constantly stalls out because it does not use enough rudder. There are more than a few scouts that the AI cannot fly correctly because of inadequate rudder input.
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#72 ericleroi

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:55

With more testing, it seems like the major fps hit on the channel map is not from the trees, but from the layer of ocean that is underneath all of the terrain.

That's a very interesting observation. It would be great to have this optimised in some way.
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#73 gavagai

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:53

0.14 posted.
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#74 Blade_meister

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 13:27

Dammit gavagai, I didn't get to try .13 with the AI nerf yet!!!!Now I have to go back download .14,go in JSGME and uninstall .13 and then install .14,install the nerf blah, blah blah! :( That is it, I am stopping what I am doing, installing .14 with AI nerf(I know, I am a Wuss) :roll: and I am going into the Channel Map, firing up my Tripe, and I am going after those Re8s, :x and will probably end up admiring your tree change up close :shock: before you change this again!!! :lol:
By the way, you have done a very nice job in your OP updates. It is very clean and concise in letting me know what each update is, and keeping it in one thread and in the OP keeps it simple to find, while I can look at the end of the thread to see what the latest chatter is about. It really makes keeping track of what you are doing quick. Thanks for all your hard work, I hope you are having fun doing it.
That said, I see that in .12 you made these changes
Sun glare no longer looks star shaped.
Lens flare is removed.
I liked Bbobs modded lens flare(not asking you to change this), can I just install this over .14 and get it back? Might this cause problems? Thanks again. :S!:

S!Blade<><
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#75 gavagai

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 13:30

Yeah, anything you want to change, just enable it over "RoF Refined." :S!:

Btw, I tried a few quick missions against a Breguet with my terminator gunners, and I was still able to take out the Breguet in a single pass without taking damage (veteran gunner). What you can't do anymore is the long tailchase at low 6. That tactic is obsolete now. It should have never worked in the first place but the default gunners are passive and sit down at the worst times.
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#76 Hellshade

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 14:01

I have to second BMs compliments about how nice this mod and thread are being handled, Gav. Latest file and change log is always in the OP. Great notes on what each change does. Latest chatter at the back. Great stuff and the mod itself is really very well done. Thank you for all of your efforts on this.
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#77 Blade_meister

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 14:29

Just PMed you, I will check for a response later.
Edit: I AM GOING IN .14 NOW!!!! :lol:

S!Blade<><
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#78 gavagai

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 15:08

Ok Blade, track as requested, 2 veteran Breguets:

http://www.mediafire...ds2piddw6p1do8u" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mediafire...ds2piddw6p1do8u

You'll see that I fail to follow my own advice when I take a fuel leak, but otherwise they were clean attacks. *Do not* just sit in the gunner's field of fire.
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#79 Blade_meister

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 16:52

TY , I will view and take notes later. :S!:

S!Blade<><
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#80 flightdok55

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 19:47

What is a "Gunner Nerf" at the end of the first post please?…….
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