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Reduced rate of fire mod


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#41 gavagai

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 20:48

Here is Bletchley's post:

The Lewis gun Mk.I had a rof of 550 rpm, increased to the higher rate of around 700 rpm with the introduction of the Mk.II and Mk.III in May 1918.

The Vickers and the Maxim (Spandau) had a reliable rof of around 450 rpm when used with fabric belts in the air. The earliest mechanical synchronisation gears used by both the Germans (Fokker and Albatros types) and the British and French reduced this to around 350 rpm. The introduction of an improved Fokker type with the Albatros D.III or D.V (not quite sure of the exact date) then raised this back up to 450 rpm, but the introduction of a muzzle booster seems to have only improved the reliability of the Maxim and not increased the rate of fire. The limiting factor here appears to have been the continued reliance on fabric belts that would become stiff when cold and wet, and would not reliably support a higher rate of fire. The Germans were the first to introduce the metal disintegrating link belt to replace the canvas belt, but they do not appear to have had access to the right quantity or type of hard alloy to provide a stiff enough belt that would work reliably in the air, and after initial experimental use in the Fokker E.III they went back to using canvas belts.

The British introduced the Constantinesco synchronising gear in March 1917, a big improvement on earlier gears as it did not rely on a mechanical linkage and did not therefore limit the rate of fire by engine speed. This appears to have raised the rof of the Vickers to around 450-500 rpm, still limited by the use of a canvas belt. The first metal disintegrating links appear to have been the Sangster links introduced for land use in January 1916, but not in great numbers, and the Myers Mk.I or "MS" belt for air use in July 1916. These early links, however, suffered from the same problem with the metal alloy as the German type and were therefore rejected for air use, with Col. Sefton Brancker reporting to Trenchard that "the articulated belt is made of too soft a metal and the clips are subsequently jamming". It was only with the Prideaux link first developed in December 1916 that a hard enough alloy was used, and not until October 1917 with the Mk.III version that a good enough design for reliable air use meant that a higher rate of fire could be supported. The introduction of the Hazelton muzzle booster in May 1917 then raised the Vickers rof to 1000 rpm in land use, and it was the combination of the Constantinesco synch. gear and Prideaux links already in use that meant this could then be exploited to raise the Vickers rof to 850 rpm for air use (reduced from 1000 rpm to reduce jams and stoppages) in October 1917. This also appears to have been the time that the ammunition load for the synchrionised twin-Vickers used on the Sopwith Camel went from 250 rounds per gun (2 x 250 round canvas belts) to 500 rounds per gun (2 x 500 round Prideaux link belts), just in time for a change of role for the Camel to ground strafing and attack support.

So, it seems like Rise of Flight introduced the boosted Vickers a little early. Nothing I can do about that. I'm also having a hard time reconciling what he says about the early Spandau rate of fire on the Albatros D.II and Eindecker with Boelcke's 440rpm.

——-

Also, regarding Spandau improvements, Dave Watts measured 440rpm from the gear box of a D.IIIau engine, so the Germans still used that setting in 1918.
http://www.theaerodr...vs-spandau.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theaerodr...com/forum/aircr … andau.html
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#42 HotTom

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 22:24

Well that resolves the Allied side, although it looks like the "boosted" rate would only apply after oct. 1917.

There seems to be a lot less info on the German side (what else is new :roll: ). For example, I find it hard to believe that they were using cloth ammo belts all the way to the end of the war? Second, I have also seen references to a "booster" being used by the Germans, although I have not seen any info on performance.

As far as I can tell, the Vickers and the Spandau were both improved versions of the Maxim and both shared the same basic design, so the "booster" should have worked as well on the Spandau as on the Vickers. I am sure the Germans captured planes with "boosted" Vickers and saw the advantage. I find it hard to believe they would not have tried to use the same design. After all, the Germans always closely examined captured Allied planes and had no problem copying all the good stuff.

There you go again! :mrgreen:

"I find it hard to believe" and "As far as I can tell" and "I am sure" isn't proof of anything. :?

Okay, I'm paraphrasing below but here is the gist of it:

The 08 and 08/15 used cloth belts throughout the war. They never had a booster and had slower rate of fire than the boosted Vickers, which was a much more modified version of the Maxim design than the Spandau.

The Hazelton boosted Vickers (introduced in May 1917) required a number of changes to stronger parts in the gun because of the more violent action (parts falling off again!). They don't explain why the Germans didn't copy it but they didn't and that's all that matters. Tony Williams and Emmanuel Gustin discuss the Maxim-based Spandau and Vickers guns in detail in their book "Flying Guns World War I."

As for the belts, you have it backwards. The Germans invented the disintegrating belt first and the British found it in a captured German plane in April 1916. The Germans gave up on the concept probably because of a lack of the high quality steel required and went to soaking cloth belts in soap, which made them more reliable. Meanwhile, the British took the German disintegrating belt concept and improved on it with a complete redesign by Prideaux, which became the standard for the Vickers gun. (also from Tony Williams and Emmanuel Gustin "Flying Guns", pp. 30-31).
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#43 J.j.

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 22:34

So, it seems like Rise of Flight introduced the boosted Vickers a little early. Nothing I can do about that. I'm also having a hard time reconciling what he says about the early Spandau rate of fire on the Albatros D.II and Eindecker with Boelcke's 440rpm.

——

Well, we could go with two JSME variants of the rate of fire mod:

One for 1917 with Vickers at 450 rpm, boosted Vickers at 500 rpm, and Spandaus at 440 rpm.

One for 1918 with boosted Vickers at 800rpm, and Spandau "late" at 530 rpm.
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#44 HotTom

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 23:20

So, it seems like Rise of Flight introduced the boosted Vickers a little early. Nothing I can do about that. I'm also having a hard time reconciling what he says about the early Spandau rate of fire on the Albatros D.II and Eindecker with Boelcke's 440rpm.

——

Well, we could go with two JSME variants of the rate of fire mod:

One for 1917 with Vickers at 450 rpm, boosted Vickers at 500 rpm, and Spandaus at 440 rpm.

One for 1918 with boosted Vickers at 800rpm, and Spandau "late" at 530 rpm.

Whoa, jj! Where are you getting those numbers?

The boosted Vickers was 850 (reduced from a possible max of 1,000) and it was in service from May 1917 onward.

The 08'15 was 450. Period. I have no idea what a Spandau Late is (there was an 08/18 but the design didn't see service until the early 1920s).

http://users.skynet....mmanuel.Gustin/


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#45 gavagai

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 23:47

Yes HT, but read Bletchley's post above.

The introduction of the Hazelton muzzle booster in May 1917 then raised the Vickers rof to 1000 rpm in land use, and it was the combination of the Constantinesco synch. gear and Prideaux links already in use that meant this could then be exploited to raise the Vickers rof to 850 rpm for air use (reduced from 1000 rpm to reduce jams and stoppages) in October 1917.

I have no special knowledge here. If you can tease out the different accounts for us that would be helpful.
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#46 HotTom

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 00:17

Okay, but this is what jj is recommending:

One for 1917 with Vickers at 450 rpm, boosted Vickers at 500 rpm, and Spandaus at 440 rpm.

One for 1918 with boosted Vickers at 800rpm, and Spandau "late" at 530 rpm.


That doesn't match either Bletchley (whoever he is other than an OFF modder who seems to know what he's doing) or Tony Williams (who is "The Man" on this topic; in fact, he has a website and you might ask him directly http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ There's an email link. ).

Why would the "boosted" Vickers be only 500 in all of 1917 when the gun was issued beginning in May?

And I still don't know what a Spandau "late" is. :?

He just confused me is all. How about a source or two, jj?
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#47 gavagai

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 00:23

Yeah, I don't know where the "late" spandau comes from. I just posted above that Dave Watts measured 440rpm from the gear box of a Mercedes D.IIIau.

I think it's just hard to accept that the CP were so outgunned, but the evidence says they really were.
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#48 gavagai

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 00:38

HT, Bletchley is one of the most knowledgeable and respected members of theaerodrome.com. I thought you would recognize his name.

Anyway, I like J.j.'s idea of splitting the mod by the October 1917 date.

So, something like this:

Before October 1917:
450rpm all Vickers
440rpm Spandau

October 1917 and later:
800rpm all Vickers
440rpm Spandau

What about the Lewis gun. Its rate of fire increased, too. When did that happen? I don't want this idea to explode into 3 or 4 separate mods to use.
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#49 HotTom

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 00:41

Just email Mr. Williams. See what he says.

He posts frequently on The Aerodrome so I suspect he is approachable.
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#50 gavagai

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 00:50

http://www.quarry.ni...uk/RAF guns.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.quarry.ni...uk/RAF guns.htm

Its free rate of fire was also increased from 550 to 850 rpm by fitting a Hazleton muzzle adaptor, although the actual RoF of a synchronised gun would have been much less than this. Synchronisation was always problematic and inclined to slip out of phase, but the Constantinescu-Colley, or C-C, hydrosonic system performed relatively well.

ARGH! :x How much is "much less?"

Tell you what. Enjoy the mod as it is for now, and gather more information. If you want to adjust something on your own, go ahead. Gather more information and we can discuss further revisions. I'd like to know more about balloon guns, the different rates of fire for the Lewis, what was the rate of fire of the boosted Vickers, really, etc.
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#51 HotTom

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 01:16

I can't believe this. You won't even ask him? You would have starved as a news reporter. ;-)
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#52 gavagai

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 01:45

No, I can do that. I'm just frustrated at how much inconsistent information is out there.
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#53 gavagai

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:03

Wow, HT, have you seen this site? https://www.forgotte...chine-guns/lmg/

Look at the pdfs. Those aren't just book covers.


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#54 HotTom

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:25

Good stuff! I bookmarked it!

The Lewis was a remarkably good gun. A friend of mine, Brian Dick, who has repaired several old British sniper rifles for me, has a 1914 BSA Lewis for sale at $19,500. Not a bad price and I've seen it and it's beautiful but way beyond the reach of an old pensioner. icon_cry.gif

http://www.bdlltd.co...1914_Lewis.html


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#55 lederhosen

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:13

Salute

downloaded and I find the MOD very nice.
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#56 hq_Jorri

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:59

Great find!
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#57 Hellshade

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:57

Great mod. I wouldn't have a clue about what RoF was historically accurate by which planes during specific time frames, but I do know that it's at least a little bit harder for my Alb DIIt to cut the wings off pups. Still relatively easy compared to other planes of course, but no longer an almost given with a single pass or two. Thanks for putting them back into the fight a little more.
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#58 J.j.

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 17:27

Okay, but this is what jj is recommending:

One for 1917 with Vickers at 450 rpm, boosted Vickers at 500 rpm, and Spandaus at 440 rpm.

One for 1918 with boosted Vickers at 800rpm, and Spandau "late" at 530 rpm.


That doesn't match either Bletchley (whoever he is other than an OFF modder who seems to know what he's doing) or Tony Williams (who is "The Man" on this topic; in fact, he has a website and you might ask him directly http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ There's an email link. ).

Why would the "boosted" Vickers be only 500 in all of 1917 when the gun was issued beginning in May?

And I still don't know what a Spandau "late" is. :?

He just confused me is all. How about a source or two, jj?

1) Boosted Vickers at 800 rpm (according to the document Luke posted) was only after october 1917, so we can consider a widespread usage at beginning of 1918.
Beforeoctober 1917, boosted Vickers should fire at 500 rpm (Hazelton device allowing a slightly increase in rpm, but old canvas bands are still limititing the rate of fire.)

2) Boelcke said that he has tuned his Spandau to fire between 440 rpm/ 600rpm. I was proposing 530 rpm as a stand in for a "tuned" Spandau in 1918, to counterbalance with the fast-firing Vickers of 1918. 530 rpm is a median value between 440 rpm and 600rpm. That way we have some balance, and a median value which can satisfy everybody.

That is a proposition, and not told by sources (at least no other source than the Boelcke one).
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#59 HotTom

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 17:48

Okay, but this is what jj is recommending:

One for 1917 with Vickers at 450 rpm, boosted Vickers at 500 rpm, and Spandaus at 440 rpm.

One for 1918 with boosted Vickers at 800rpm, and Spandau "late" at 530 rpm.


That doesn't match either Bletchley (whoever he is other than an OFF modder who seems to know what he's doing) or Tony Williams (who is "The Man" on this topic; in fact, he has a website and you might ask him directly http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/There's an email link. ).

Why would the "boosted" Vickers be only 500 in all of 1917 when the gun was issued beginning in May?

And I still don't know what a Spandau "late" is. icon_e_confused.gif

He just confused me is all. How about a source or two, jj?

1) Boosted Vickers at 800 rpm(according to the document Luke posted) was only after october 1917, so we an consider a widespread ausage at beginning of 1918.
Then the boosted Vcikers before at 500 rpm (Hazelton device, but old canvas bands)

2) Boelcke said that his "tuned" Spandau fired between 440 rpm/ 600rpm. I was proposing 530 rpm as a stand in for a "tuned" Spandau in 1918, to counterbalance with the fast-frigin Vickers of 1918. 530 rpm is a median value between 440 rpm and 600rpm. That way we have some balance, and a median value which can satisfy everybody.

That is a proposition, and not told by sources (at least no other source than the Boelcke one).

Let's not start making up fantasy machine guns. It was what it was and nobody worried about the "fast frigin (cq) Vickers." We have enough fantasy weapons in RoF already. There was no Spandau Late. icon_mrgreen.gif

I'm not clear myself on when the Hazelton/Prideaux inventions raised the Vickers rate and Bletchley's OFF post seems to contradict itself: May or October 1917? He says both. I would go with May but certainly no later than October.

To complicate things even more, there was a Sangster disintegrating link belt in use for most of 1916 but the Prideaux superseded it. Wish I could find a date:

http://www.bocn.co.u...orum/threads/4 

Prideaux's original patent appears to have been in 1915 but I haven't found when the Ministry of Defense issued a Letter of Change approving its use:

https://patents.goog...atent/US1315742

There is a post (with no reference) in The Aerodrome Forum stating: "Prideaux disintegrating links were approved for use by the Brits in October 1917, and were in widespread use in their aircraft by the end of that year. http://www.theaerodr...com/forum/aircr … stion.html

But then there is also this (I think he may be including the earlier Spangster belts): "The Allies used Prideaux metallic disintegrating links since 1916." http://www.theaerodr...com/forum/aircr … belts.html

Go figure…

Clever fellow, Prideaux. He patented a speed loader for the Webley revolver in 1893 and an improved version in 1914:

http://www.utting.or...iting/nvtu/shoo … loader.pdf


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#60 2Lt_Joch

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 13:05

Came across an interesting quote by Robert Compston in Hart's "Bloody April". The 8th Naval Squadron RNAS was sent to the Arras sector in april 1917 to reinforce the RFC. At that time it was equipped with Sopwith Triplanes. In the quote, Compston is describing fellow pilot Robert Little's Tripe as having 2 MGs firing "2,000 rounds per minute". So, it looks like Little had two Boosted Vickers both set to fire at the maximum 1,000 rounds per minute.

Also this which had been posted before:
 

An Aeroplane Machine Gun -
BEFORE the Royal Commission on Awards to Inventors
last week, Maj. George Hazelton, late of the R.A.F., entered
a claim in respect of an invention for quickening the rate
of fire of a Vickers machine-gun. ~~
Sir Ernest Wild, K.C., for the claimant, said that the invention
was mainly used on aeroplanes' machine-guns, and
increased the rate of fire from 500 rounds per minute to 1,000
rounds per minute.
The Government had ordered 50,000
sets, of which 27,000 had been supplied. Maj. Hazelton's
device had been described as the most meritorious aerial
gunnery invention during the War, and if an award were
made on its merits he would be satisfied.
Maj. Hazelton said that on one occasion a rate of fire of
1,385 rounds per minute was obtained.
Maj. Harold Balfour,
R.A.F., who had brought down 15 German machines, said
that the use of the gear in aerial fighting increased the
chances of a pilot by 100 per cent.
Mr. Trevor Watson said that the Treasury admitted the
invention, and they did net suggest that it was part of the
claimant's duty to invent.
The decision of the Commission will be given later.

https://www.flightgl...ch=rate of fire


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#61 J.j.

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 22:07

There were definitively two Spandaus type, the lMG 08 and the LMG 08/15. First one (lmg0815f in the game) is the early type, a derivative from the MG 08 used on the ground. Second one was designed first as an aerial gun, and was introduced in 1917. The Fokker EIII of the game should have the lMG 08, but as gavagai said when the aircraft was released the gun was not modelized yet. Marine planes like the W12 used these weapons even after 1917, that's correct.
And it is possible there was some changes in the rate of fire, since the lMG08 was lacking a muzzle booster introduced with the LMG 08/15, but I haven't found any precise reference to that.
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#62 2Lt_Joch

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 13:10

came across this interesting post by Dave Watts (post #49):

An LMG Spandau has a ROF adjuster that ranges from "0 - 700". I have fired these weapons and they don't like to operate at the higher ROF settings as you are tightening a recoil spring and if your ammo is not up to snuff the gun will simply not reload. In all observations I have made from WW1 period photographs of aircraft the guns are normally set for around 430 ROF, and with actual conducted field operation of the weapon I can confirm it operates the smoothest and most reliably with this 430 ROF setting, (and this is utilizing the barrel "booster"). So when Fokker sites 800 shots a minute he can't be talking about the most commonly used fighter weapon, the 7,92mm LMG Spandau, unless he is referring to the ROF of two LMG's, which would have universally been the case for German fighters at the end of the war. I believe 600 - 800 rounds per minute is quite accurate for two LMG's.

so the Spandau could physically be fired at up to 700 rpm, although 430 rpm seems the most reliable setting.

Apparently, the Parabellum could be fired at up to 1,000 rpm:

I'm not sure why they didn't use the Parabellum for the fighter aircraft as they fired up to 1000 rounds per minute, unless it was not deemed acceptable due to either too many jams due to the higher ROF and therefore an increase of encountered duds, or if the synchronizers couldn't make full use of the higher ROF, or possibly if DWM couldn't keep up with the production demands of the air force.

www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft/13296-myth-german-fire-superiority-5.html#post137020
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#63 Bucksnort

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 03:18

I've been reading this thread off and on over the past few months and decided to make myself a mod package that allows me to change the rate of fire for a given time period on certain guns discussed in this thread. Thought I would post it for anyone else who would like to use it.

There is conflicting info in this thread, so if you wonder where I got the numbers I used the following:

"The Vickers and the Maxim (Spandau) had a reliable rof of around 450 rpm when used with fabric belts in the air. The earliest mechanical synchronisation gears used by both the Germans (Fokker and Albatros types) and the British and French reduced this to around 350 rpm."
Bletchley

Rate of Fire Jan 1916 - Feb 1917
Spandau lmg_08_15 (350 rpm)
Spandau lmg_08_15_f (350 rpm)
vickers_mk1 (350 rpm)
vickers_mk1_boost (350 rpm)

"The introduction of an improved Fokker type with the Albatros D.III or D.V (not quite sure of the exact date) then raised this back up to 450 rpm, but the introduction of a muzzle booster seems to have only improved the reliability of the Maxim and not increased the rate of fire."
Bletchley

Pat Wilson introduces the AD3 in Jan 1917 and the AD5 in May 1917 in PWCG, so the mid point would be Mar 1917. This also ties nicely for the second part of the mod:

"The British introduced the Constantinesco synchronising gear in March 1917, a big improvement on earlier gears as it did not rely on a mechanical linkage and did not therefore limit the rate of fire by engine speed. This appears to have raised the rof of the Vickers to around 450-500 rpm, still limited by the use of a canvas belt."
Bletchley

Also, for the Spandau rate of fire I considered this comment from Watts and averaged the two numbers at 440 rpm:

"An LMG Spandau has a ROF adjuster that ranges from "0 - 700". I have fired these weapons and they don't like to operate at the higher ROF settings as you are tightening a recoil spring and if your ammo is not up to snuff the gun will simply not reload. In all observations I have made from WW1 period photographs of aircraft the guns are normally set for around 430 ROF, and with actual conducted field operation of the weapon I can confirm it operates the smoothest and most reliably with this 430 ROF setting, (and this is utilizing the barrel "booster")."
Watts

Rate of Fire Mar 1917 - Sep 1917
Spandau lmg_08_15 (440 rpm)
Spandau lmg_08_15_f (440 rpm)
vickers_mk1 (475 rpm)
vickers_mk1_boost (475 rpm)

For the third time period I went back to Bletchley:

"The introduction of the Hazelton muzzle booster in May 1917 then raised the Vickers rof to 1000 rpm in land use, and it was the combination of the Constantinesco synch. gear and Prideaux links already in use that meant this could then be exploited to raise the Vickers rof to 850 rpm for air use (reduced from 1000 rpm to reduce jams and stoppages) in October 1917."

Rate of Fire Oct 1917 - Apr 1918
Spandau lmg_08_15 (440 rpm)
Spandau lmg_08_15_f (440 rpm)
vickers_mk1 (475 rpm)
vickers_mk1_boost (850 rpm)

And then the fourth part of the mod package adds an increase in the Lewis rof:

"The Lewis gun Mk.I had a rof of 550 rpm, increased to the higher rate of around 700 rpm with the introduction of the Mk.II and Mk.III in May 1918."
Bletchley

Rate of Fire May 1918 - Nov 1918
lewis (700 rpm)
lewis_inv (700 rpm)
Spandau lmg_08_15 (440 rpm)
Spandau lmg_08_15_f (440 rpm)
vickers_mk1 (475 rpm)
vickers_mk1_boost (850 rpm)

Using JSGME I just activate the mod for whatever time period I am flying (don't forget to deactivate the one you are currently running first). The boosted Vickers is in all files because Gav made the comment that 777 might have introduced it too early. But I wasn't sure how early, so by placing it in all files, first at the the standard Vickers rof and then at the boosted rof beginning in Oct 1917 it ensures you won't be running the boosted Vickers before Oct 1917.

Thanks for posting the original mod file Gav, as I wouldn't have been able to do this without it. I've been having some fun with these, so thought I would put them out there for anybody else who is interested in using them.

Are Bletchley and Watts right? I don't know, but wanted to do something so started with them. All other guns not included in the mod files described above will run at Rise of Flight default rpm values when using these mods.

:S!:

"Rate of Fire by Historic Date Range" JSGME Mod File Moved Here:
[MOD] Rate of Fire by Historic Date Range
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#64 gavagai

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 08:25

Hi Bucksnort, that looks very interesting! Thanks for posting it. Please start a new thread for your mod or many will not find it buried here in the back.

:S!:
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#65 J.j.

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 22:22

Interesting thing is that on our ROF Fokker DVII, the rate of fire adjuster is shown on the Spandau gun, see here:

Image

And it appears to be "set" below 450 rpm, definitively under the 500 mark, whereas in stock ROF it is set at 650 rpm!
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#66 thedudeWG

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 21:42

:lol: Nice catch, J.j.! :S!:

…but doesn't the fact that there is a 700 mark prove that nobody's really wrong here?

Here's my D.VII! ;)

Attached File  new firing rate.jpg   430.04KB   172 downloads
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#67 gavagai

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 14:29

Dave Watts studied the gear box of a Mercedes D.IIIau engine and concluded that it was set to fire the guns at 440rpm (max). So that means we have pilot accounts and engineering data to back up the lower rate of fire. The Germans invented metal ammunition belts but were still using fabric belts in 1918, so they could not make use of the higher potential rate of fire on the Spandau machine gun.

Sorry, but those are just the facts.
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#68 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 16:12

Not sure if the Vickers Rate of Fire has been debated yet, but I remember reading a very interesting chapter written by the Gunnery Officer of Naval 8 squadron (see book URL below), in which he describes the introduction of the new gear and muzzle booster technology on their Camels.

Apparently it nearly doubled the ROF from previous armament, but oh, how he complained about having to deal with pilots and their stoppages! For them apparently there was no tuning down of the ROF to find a sweet spot, they simply went for it. But that is my memory of the chapter, I do not own the book myself so perhaps someone else can verify…

www.naval-military-press.com/naval-eight-a-history-of-no.8-squadron
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#69 J.j.

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  • Posts: 1959

Posted 28 March 2014 - 18:52

Well, dude, if I've understood correctly the Spandau when used as a ground machine gun could theoritically be adjusted to 700 rpm ROF. But in reality it was not used on aeril machine guns for the reasons explained above. Or (and I think it is not going to happen), we should have modeled on Rise of Flight more frequent stoppages when guns settled at 700 rpm. In the meantime, the "new" rate of fire at 440 is a better representation of what machine guns were at this time - yet it is still not 100% accurate, I agree.
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#70 thedudeWG

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 19:08

Yeah, I'm starting to think the markings aren't directly related to rate of fire, anyway. It doesn't make sense to have a "zero" setting. Oh well, I thought it was a fun Photoshop opportunity …

I'll see you in BA IV!!! :x (gotta find a way to slow down that icon)





Attached File  icon_mad3.gif   7KB   102 downloads

That's more like it! :xx:
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#71 J.j.

J.j.
  • Posts: 1959

Posted 28 March 2014 - 19:21

You seem a bit puzzled by this change Dude (yet it appears it's more historical than the unmodded game). If you think you're at a disadvantage flying Central in BA IV, please request your transfer to Entente, as we (561 Squadron for AB IV) wanted to fly Central this time!
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#72 thedudeWG

thedudeWG
  • Posts: 764

Posted 28 March 2014 - 19:55

No concerns here, J.j.

… well aside from my original post regarding the AI skill levels for the AI gunners mod.

Good luck and have fun! :S!:
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