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Yet another naval project: SMS Torpedoboot


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#1 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 16:16

Inspired by Waxworks' Channel mission description, I started looking into the SMS torpedoboot class as a possible project. The single funnel 1916 class appears to be the most common, the most seaworthy, and served throughout the war, though larger more capable Torpedoboot destroyers came along later (2 and 3 funnels). The British just called them destroyers, but the Germans stuck with the class name. From even just a quick search, this class has a lot of variability with deck configuration, so I went with the best profile I could find.

Anyways, next thing I knew I had a mesh going. Just some few deck details left along the aft portion, the masts and rigging, but it is coming along. Advice always appreciated when it comes to making things easier on myself, and the best way to ensure a smooth transition into the game, with a lot of help of course. icon_cool.gif

Updates will appear on the Syndicate forum HERE.

Don't we already have an 88 mm gun in RoF??? That would be perfect because that is the caliber of the deck guns for this class. I think even the 10.5 cm artillery piece from the cruiser would be fine since the V-class of torpedoboot was refitted in 1916 to carry a 10.5 gun, so there is some precedent (albeit a slightly larger boat).

EDITED image corrected, see my last post page 2…
A_59_zps0d5b71a4.jpg



 

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#2 hq_Jorri

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 16:21

Damn Bandy, I know you made the texture for Vander's drifters but I didn't know you could model! Why didn't you come out of the closet earlier :D

Looking great!

Where would these boats operate?
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#3 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 16:27

Oh, you know. So many talented people around, and so little time b/c of real life. ;) I also suck at UV mapping, and don't own 3DSMax, so rely on the kindness of strangers…

Waxworks has a great background write up on Channel naval operations for his mission. It is going to form the basis of an online campaign Syndicate hopes to host in November. Should be a lot of fun, the mission has passed beta testing, I think.

I'll find the link. riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=38892

It has been a very organic process; if interested see the development thread:
www.syndicatesquadron.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=891
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#4 oneeyeddog

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:15

The time and effort that you've put into improving RoF is very much appreciated. Thanks to you and all the others that do so. S!
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#5 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:24

wow, that would be really cool.. more ships is definatly what we need for making good use of the chanel map!
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#6 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:28

Very nice Bandy, the gun in the side profile on the rear of the deck looks like a maxim flak to me - I shall have my naval version finished next week though I am not sure how those are actually "attached", I believe the guns have to be units of their own and are then attached to the ship unit?

Best if you or vander drop me a PM, I can also send you the files but I am not sure they will be compatible since I use 3ds max.

Important question would be if the german imperial navy used the big drum or just the small ammo box.
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#7 Genius

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:33

Beautiful model !

Here somme 88mm info: www.lovettartillery.com/8.8cm_Schnellfeuer_Kanone_L_30.html

You plan a dedicated file texture or a shared texture ?

I would be very interested if you could detail everything about the lua and other files. :geek:

Good job :S!:
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#8 SYN_Vander

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:42

Here is a -work in progress- SDK document about creating ships for RoF. This should help some of you guys with the entries in the luascripts as well.
Although this is for ships, it is very similar to how vehicles are constructed in RoF.

Please provide feedback so I can enhance the document!

Attached File  RoFShipsSDK (1).zip   1.29MB   82 downloads
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#9 SYN_Vander

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:50

I believe the guns have to be units of their own and are then attached to the ship unit?

Correct.

If you want to know how these things work in RoF (and it's actually pretty straightforward once you know it) I suggest to use unGTP to extract all RoF gtp archives in a separate directory.

Then look for the folder \luascripts\worldobjects
All the configuration files for each object in RoF are stored here. Take the German cruiser, it is listed as gercruiser.txt. If you open the file, you will find the following entry:

[attach=0]
object = "LuaScripts/WorldObjects/GERcruiser_52intFwd.txt"
position= 49.374, 3.7853, -1.7924
rotation= 0, -65, 0
[end]

This means that another object is attached to the ship. In this case it's the 52mm forward firing gun. The co-ordinates determine where exactly the 3d model will be positioned in relation to the master object, the ship. Now find and open GERcruiser_52intFwd.txt in the same folder. There you will find the line:

VisualImage=0,"graphics/Ships/GerShips/52mmGun.MGM",1

This means that the actual 3d model is 52mmGun.MGM. You can find this file in \graphics\ships\gerships

So basically, all the config files reference other config files. Read carefully and you will find every file and location you need. :)
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#10 Genius

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:54

Here is a -work in progress- SDK document about creating ships for RoF. This should help some of you guys with the entries in the luascripts as well.
Although this is for ships, it is very similar to how vehicles are constructed in RoF.

Please provide feedback so I can enhance the document!

Thanks so cool ! :shock: :P
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#11 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:59

That is great Vander! Many thanks for this fundamental information, and the time it took to put together.

@Imperator: Do you mean a 37mm Flakcannone on the aft gun implacement? That would be a nasty sting for Entente pilots. From basic research into this class (if someone is an expert, please help here…) that around 1916 the torpedoboots received 88 mm deck guns to fend off British destroyers, which were slightly larger. In addition, the SMS responded with torpedoboot destroyers themselves, the two and three funnel varieties, though there were fewer of them.

If we are to have true coastal missions, the class 1916 with single funnel and shallow draft was used in the shallow waters off Flanders where the other larger classes could not go. The single funnel class are also more in line with game balance, a bit more like the drifters as a small target type.

Just where my thinking was when I started it. :D

Thanks for all positive comments, and constructive critique as well!
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#12 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 18:30

A great project Bandy. I really like the look of WW1 era ships.
Once tried to model an MBoot but never finished it. Maybe I can relive it with Vanders excellent write-up for ships one day, when I have time again.
Image
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#13 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 18:32

I am not sure at all, the photo is very fuzzy in that regard and I would never trust a profile for such information as they contain errors quite regularly.

I haven't done any research at all in regards to naval guns as I was primarily focused on improving the western front rather than the channel front - all I am saying is if you need a naval version of the 1 pounder or mflak I can easily make one. Next will be the 1 pounder as used on france though as gunsmith86 was nice enough to send me new pictures showing the mount.
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#14 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 18:57

The vessel looks really modern, sort of, with its one funnel. I think a class of minehunter had a very very similar hull design with a bit more superstructure aft:

edit: confirmed, the photo in the beginning of the thread is not a torpedoboat (which would have a V or A designation) but minehunter.. similiar to the one WW1EAF_Paf modeled. 119 of the 1916 class were built and many used even in ww2. Seems to have been a good design, built continously evolving from 1914 to 1916 class.

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#15 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 22:35

PAF That is a great ship model! Please get it into the game.

The vessel looks really modern, sort of, with its one funnel. I think a class of minehunter had a very very similar hull design with a bit more superstructure aft:

edit: confirmed, the photo in the beginning of the thread is not a torpedoboat (which would have a V or A designation) but minehunter.
Yes, well done Zebra! The B&W image in my OP, now corrected (second image below for comparison) is a similar but a completely different ship class! I noticed the different deck configuration aft of the conning tower, but thought it only within class variation. In my defense, it was presented as a photo of A35 somewhere online.

Here is another listed as A59 - 1916 class torpedoboot, without the raised area aft of the conning tower.
I trust I may be forgiven for my earlier mistake, they are very similar…

Does anyone know what the square object is on the front of the conning tower, below the 3 windows? I've seen it on several images, but can't say what it is.
Image

Image

EDIT: here is S139 with two funnels. Again, very similar except the extra funnel.
Who votes for two funnels? :lol:

Image

AND a 3-funnel v-class, Torpedobootzerstorer (TB destroyer). Ordered in 1914, only 8 were built. In 1916 it was refitted to carry a 10.5 cm gun, as well as a float plane.
Image
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#16 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 23:23

the square object is a liferaft, same as the 2 rafts on the side of the funnel. And I am all for the V100 with its Seaplane.. some good fotos of her can be found here:
some great pictures

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#17 Waxworks

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 00:13

As I posted on the Syndicate thread, while there were many of the smaller torpedo boats of the type you have there, the Germans didn't consider them to be up to fighting.

The Battle of Dover Strait in October 1916 occurred because after Jutland the Germans released a couple of flotillas of modern torpedo boats to operate from the Flanders ports. While the Royal Navy had adequate force to deal with the light torpedo boats, the newer ones came as an unpleasant surprise. However, the Germans seemed content with their solitary victory.

If you're willing to consider another class, the 1913 class was the largest built: hochseeflotte Some of these seem to have transported float planes, though I'm curious to know why and where… Several of them were scuttled in Belgium.

As targets in port, the lighter torpedo boats are the ones that might be more realistically sunk..? However, a good Royal Navy destroyer type might be the Admiralty M's which operated with the Harwich force (which is where our light cruisers are from). They mounted 3 main guns and 3 pom-poms, which makes them far superior to the A-class both in surface and AA armament, but about the equivalent of the 1913 class.
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#18 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 10:57

the reason for carring seaplanes, which I believe was on the german side mostly experimental in nature, was that the need for reconaissance was very essential in a time were ships still formed big, not very flexible battle lines trying to cross the T on the enemy. basically a lot of the naval comanders believed that the decisve battles would not be small groups and remote action but big, decisive battles.. the only problem beeing that the british fleet was larger and there allways was the risk that when engaged in a battle the brits would have another cruiser squadron somewhere messing up the plans, or so the germans thought and as a smaller navy, held recce as their foundation for beeing able to go toe to toe with the british.. hence the large number of naval airships.

However, the north sea can be most unkind to seasurface launched wood and canvas planes and overall the idea of having small destroyer type vessels equiped with a plane and the logistics to operate one, is of very limitied practiability. As other nations also found out in ww2.
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#19 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:45

Well, elements of the German fleet at the Battle of Jutland were first spotted by a British Short Type 184 seaplane. One success does not provide enough evidence to base doctrine, but still…
A Short 184, aircraft number 8359, was the only British aircraft to take part in the Battle of Jutland. Flown by Flt Lt Frederick Rutland (who became known afterwards as "Rutland of Jutland") with Assistant Paymaster G. S. Trewin as observer, the aircraft was launched from HMS Engadine at about 3.08 p.m.: flying at about 90 feet (27 m) due to low visibility, they spotted four cruisers of the German fleet, reporting their presence back to the Engadine at about 3.30…
Not that we'll ever be able to launch from ships, but would make a nice recce mission either airstart or taking off from beside a stationary ship.
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#20 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 12:33

agreed, I love to operate with planes from ships, it would be nice. But on practicablity, the HMS Engadine was a specially fitted seaplane carrier and off course it is better then no eye in the sky, but launching from the seasurface in the north sea is daunting once the seastate goes up and that is rather often the case, as it is only a few weeks per year in the state of beeing a pond. And flying at 90 feet to spot the enemy fleet is a task for hard men indeed…

http://upload.wikime...MS_Engadine.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://upload.wikime...org/wikipedia/c … gadine.jpg
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#21 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:31

Got the mesh imported into 3DSMax successfully. I do not have Max, so this was an important step to verify, and not without problems. :D

EDIT: Rigging done. Could be more complicated, but it really is a PITA. Handrails will be cut out in alpha channel.

Slowly but surely… :S!:

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#22 LordNeuro_Srb

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:35

Gr8 work Bandy, it will be an amezing addition to rof. Drifters made by Vender and ur self r wery nice to have in rof , and mission on syndicate was gr8 fun. And the big guns Genius working on would bring a lot of potential to game and mission makers for nice objectives.
:S!: thx for hard work u all bring into.
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#23 Genius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 13:20

Great Works,

You are very fast !

Uv mapping are made on wings3D or 3DS MAX ? you are using a share texture ?

For export, i use export as object (.obj), The export in 3DS Max not working with 3DS MAX 2008.

Good luck
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#24 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 13:55

looks pretty good so far.. I am allready thinking if I can fit the W12 on that stern mineramp ;=)
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#25 Waxworks

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 16:04

Zeebs you should search for HMS Vindex which was based at Harwich in 1917 and had a forward flying-off platform for Pups and Strutters…. they would need to find a shore base to land though!

The wheeled aircraft were carried disassembled, and were reassembled for launch.

That is a quick import Bandy, good stuff! However, I can't see the images I only get the spacer, I dunno why? Any help?
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#26 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 16:25

I know, there would be plenty of interesting vessels, from the towed barges for anti-zeppelin planes to whatnot, but I am not expecting the physics of RoF to change again, so we will only have landings, and the only plane that you can land intact on the added-3d-object-surface-physics is the W12… I am almost getting her intact on the Uboat, now IF we had more space for that….

just the beginning:

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#27 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 15:12

Torpedoboot Grosses 1916 Mob Class. A re-purposed and scaled mesh for the most part.

Some tweaks are still required to the basic mesh (such as perfecting the conning tower, masts, and rigging) before the royal Max treatment where 3 x 10.5 cm deck guns will be added, but this is pretty much how they looked.

Image

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#28 ParachuteProne

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 14:14

Wow !! Thats awesome!
The "destroyer/Torpedo Boat" classes are really needed in ROF.
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#29 Jason_Williams

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 21:14

Excellent.Love ships and boats.

Jason
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#30 SYN_Mars

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 22:49

A class torpedoboot (useless things - not even the Germans knew what to do with them) is needed for the KM in Flanders and tribal for the RN in Dover
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#31 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:18

A class torpedoboot (useless things - not even the Germans knew what to do with them) is needed for the KM in Flanders and tribal for the RN in Dover
Yes, the A-class torpedoboot struggled with leaving a mark in history, but still served a useful purpose on occasion. Will likely finish off the two-funnel torpedoboot, which was a little larger and could stand up to its opponents, and then model one of the older HMS destroyer types just for balance purposes.

The tribal class was an inter-war design, no?

Image
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#32 SYN_Mars

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 10:47

There was an pre '14 design of the same name that operated mostly in the Channel. HMS Swift would be an interesting design to model. She spent practically all of her war in the channel and was involved in a night action there:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/HMS_Swift_(1907" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia....wiki/HMS_Swift_(1907)

The M class were destroyers that served mainly with the Grand Fleet.

This link will help with what served where:
http://www.gwpda.org...al/fdrn0004.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.gwpda.org...al/fdrn0004.htm
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#33 Waxworks

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:49

There were only twelve Tribals and there were radical differences in design, one of the ships had six funnels! HMS Swift was a unique design. However, there were over one hundred Admiralty M class destroyers, 85 of which were built to the same design based on the preceding L class.

More M class destroyers were based at Harwich than there were ships in the entire Tribal class. HMS North Star was sunk by coastal batteries during the Zeebrugge raid.

The poor reputation of the A class was based on the earlier vessels, the model Bandy is making is of an later purpose built Channel design.
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#34 Avimimus

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:35

Is there any chance that these boats will have rifle fire coming from on-deck? It seems ahistorical that armed ships should only have large caliber AAA - and even if they didn't have dedicated machine gun mountings - I'm sure they carried plenty of rifles.
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#35 Waxworks

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 22:54

It seems an odd notion, why would they carry rifles? Would you expect the crew to be trained with rifles, let alone to shoot at aeroplanes with them? A minesweeper might carry a marksman or two.

You're right about the machine guns though, Bandy has done extensive research and has already located an image of where they were. The cruisers might have them too, though a WW1 cruiser was not in danger of being sunk by aeroplanes. The Royal Navy seem to have been slightly indifferent to the threat of air attack until late in the war, the Germans took it more seriously.
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#36 Avimimus

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 05:28

I just assume some small arms were available for use when boarding/inspecting neutral flag ships, or for security in foreign ports. It seems pretty standard in peacetime.
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#37 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 21:15

By request working on a Torpedoboot Grosses 1913 class, mostly re-purposed from the early drafts of the TB mesh since there are many similarities, but my, so many configuration differences as well! See quote below and images of a model and B&W, which are both supposed to be Grosses 1913 class. These also carried float planes, so useful for water start W12 missions off the English coast. :D

Lots of work still to do, the guns are stand-ins, we'll put on the 10.5 cm guns that are available in-game, etc. www.german-navy.de/torpedoboats/

This class of German torpedo boats was the largest class of ships of this type build by the German Hochseeflotte. Being the workhorse of the torpedo boat flotillas, they saw intensive action in the North and Baltic sea.

Compared to their predecessors, the Großes Torpedoboot (Design 1911) on which the general design of these boats was based, the Grosses Torpedoboot 1913 was slightly enlarged, their main improvement was the addition of a third 8,8 cm (later 10,5 cm) gun and the doubled number of torpedo tubes. Some boats were modified during the war to transport 1-2 float planes.

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#38 Genius

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 21:28

HI,

Good news !

Could you use torpedo submarines weapons (i don't know if submarine use this weapons ingame ?)

If not perahps you can "sheat" by using torpedo tubes like shell canon (with a very low speed, shot flush with water and specific .mgm ammo) ?

However, it is already great as it is !

Good luck

Genius
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#39 Avimimus

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 20:40

The photo is gorgeous! I'm really looking forward to seeing this one.
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#40 Genius

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 00:58

Hi,

On my ballistics research, i've found this if it can help you: www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_88mm-45_skc13.htm

Image

Image

Image

Bye

Genius
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