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Nieuport 17 glass rudder


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#1 gavagai

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:51

I know I'm not the first person to bring this up. The N17 rudder comes off very easily. Every time I was shot down in multiplayer tonight it started by losing the rudder. What gives? Has anyone tried some kind of controlled test?

:?
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#2 10ps

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:02

No controlled test but same problem. Even in a bounce from dead 6 I get my rudder shot off.
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#3 HotTom

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 16:00

Glad you brought it up, gav.

I'm sure a hotfix will be up before the sun sets. :?
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#4 Dressedwings

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 16:10

How often did it happen?

The two times I took up the Nieuport both times the Rudder just popped off from a few stray shots.
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TOeIhAe.png

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#5 Avimimus

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 16:50

I wish other aircraft had such weak rudders…

I seem to recall an early RoF video which had the tail of an albatros wagging back and force (wooden spars broken, but wires still attached)… I often shoot at tailplanes for no effect.
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#6 10ps

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 16:55

Image

That's what happened to me after a collision with s8n's Camel. :lol:

FYI, I landed that thing. :D

Image
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#7 10ps

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:00

On a side note… look at the modelling!

Image
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#8 gavagai

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:54

How often did it happen?

The two times I took up the Nieuport both times the Rudder just popped off from a few stray shots.

Often, as in every time my aircraft took significant gunfire.
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#9 Dressedwings

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 20:46

Well to add to the strange damage models, no matter where you are hit on the Spad your tank will always be perforated.

A Pfalz busted up my wing, but my fuselage was fine. The tank was busted and leaking though. No damage anywhere near it though. I've noticed this more than once.
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#10 =HillBilly=

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 21:23

Image

That's a humpback Alby, the most endangered species of Alby of all. :D
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#11 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:05

Not as rare as the 'broke-back Tripehound'! :o

This is not from landing, though SYN_Jedders managed to bring it down safely in the state you see. It had been flopping about for at least 5-10 minutes after a terrific dogfight with 3 or 4 Albies. We prevailed… :D

Image
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#12 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:08

Speaking of glass parts, the prop wash from that N17 just blew the wings right off my Pup!
But I was alright, gave the thumbs up, and managed to land it on a pin-head.

Image
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#13 gavagai

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:29

Bump!

I appreciate the other interesting pics, but I would like to bring the topic back to the N17's glass rudder. For my part, the Nieuport 17 is grounded until the bug is found and squashed. It's just infuriating to fly it right now when the rudder comes off every time you take fire.

I'm going to see if I can make a static test and record a track…
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#14 N28_Uberplane

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:31

It's been reported in the core beta forums. I'll see what I can do to bump it.
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#15 gavagai

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:49

Thanks Artun. This is so easy to replicate I'm not even sure if I need to record a track. Just do a quick mission with a friendly N17 to shoot at (British or French N17 it doesn't matter), saddle on his 6, and do a little shooting at the tail feathers. The whole rudder will come off before you kill the pilot. This is from a direct 6 o'clock position where the only thing I can see is the edge of the rudder.
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#16 =AxA=V.Alexx

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:46

confirm. MG gunner from the ground shot off me rudder with one hit in the last time I flew on it (before it was even a few such cases)
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#17 B24_LIBERATOR

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 13:31

What about the N.11's rudder? It has the same problem…1-2 shots and it pops clean off!
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#18 gavagai

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 13:56

What about the N.11's rudder? It has the same problem…1-2 shots and it pops clean off!

I never fly the N11 if the N17 is available, so thanks for pointing that out. The bug exists for all three aircraft: N11, N17, and GBR N17.
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#19 AB1Richard

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 21:04

Hi Giavagi
You have true- it happens especialy when is on server N17 with 60%+ fuel, when you do side slip or sharp turn with hihg speed.
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#20 =AxA=V.Alexx

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:03

Today three consecutive flights to N17 GBR on Warground server finished shooting the tail and two deaths due to loss of control. Well, I do not believe that life is more than half the pilots N17 perished because of the tail will fall off! this is similar to the situation with broken "glass" rods control of IL-2 Sturmovik game (who remembers). I will try to fix not fly it. Shame not to die because of poor workmanship and the banality of the game glitch… :xx: :cry: (I write for fresh emotions, just came out from the server)
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#21 HotTom

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:47

Odd. I've never snapped the rudder off an N.11 or N.17 in SP and I fly both a lot. Is there a difference in MP?
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#22 J2_Jakob

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:39

Hi everyone…

I find the Nieuport 17 GBR is (maybe except the glass rudder) made of steel and concrete. I fight against it quite regularly in a beta-carreer with my Albatros D.Va. Since one of my DiD pilots died due to collision, I take extra care not to collide with it again and fly a lot more carefully… But I fired up a quick mission duel with an ace AI just to take some practice. Whenever I die, it's because one and only reason - Nieuport cuts something off my crate - with its wings! :o I didn't see any wing structural damage he'd suffered from those collisions EVER. While my Alby is going down with half of the wings missing, Nieup. pilot is laughing at me all my way down to the ground, without a scratch.. From what I've read about the Nieuport, it should have similar problem like Alby - wing failure when overstressed. ("…Because the lower wings only contained one spar, the lower wing tended to fold and break off during high speed dives and maneuvers…") Clearly - collisions are no stress for one poor spar at all… :roll:
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#23 SeaW0lf

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:02

Tonight I got a little spray of bullets and my N17 rudder went gone. I didn't even got injured. It is the third time with the N17, and I don't even fly this plane much. Usually I fly the N11, which never lost the rudder in dozens of flights.

In fact, I don't ever recall losing a rudder other than with the N17.
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#24 HotTom

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:04

Must be an MP thing, SW.
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#25 SeaW0lf

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:10

Must be an MP thing, SW.

I don't know how the MP works, but it could.
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#26 LukeFF

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:11

Guys, if you want the team to look into this issue, you gotta perform some sort of controlled test routine. "A little spray of bullets" means absolutely nothing.
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#27 SeaW0lf

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:16

Yes, I agree, I just mentioned because it is recurrent with other people and I did not want to keep it to myself. The more we report it, the more people will look into it.
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#28 HotTom

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 05:45

Not only has it not been recurrent with me, it has never happened to me. But I stay out of MP (Multi-Player, SW). I fly the Noop 17 quite a bit in PWCG.
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#29 =Fifi=

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:01

Odd. I've never snapped the rudder off an N.11 or N.17 in SP and I fly both a lot. Is there a difference in MP?

Same here. In SP, never lost any N11 N17 rudder, and flying opposite side, never saw an ennemy N11 N17 loosing one…
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#30 SeaW0lf

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:48

I have been flying the N17 lately (MP) and lost the rudder three times in a week or so. Never happens with any other plane, including the N11. Maybe it is a structural problem, but it feels stange to happen so often.
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#31 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:10

Guys, if you want the team to look into this issue, you gotta perform some sort of controlled test routine. "A little spray of bullets" means absolutely nothing.

well, the situation is relativly clear: in the N17 you are not very often hit in the rudder (due to manuverability) but if you are, it falls off and your flight is over.


Must be an MP thing, SW.
naa, it doesn´t matter who shoots. However, in SP you are even less likely to get hit from a direct 6 persoective (into the rudder) if you know a little RoF. but you can replicate the situation if you fly acordingly. rudder hit -> game over.



I find the Nieuport 17 GBR is (maybe except the glass rudder) made of steel and concrete. (..)

Whenever I die, it's because one and only reason - Nieuport cuts something off my crate - with its wings! I didn't see any wing structural damage he'd suffered from those collisions EVER. While my Alby is going down with half of the wings missing, Nieup. pilot is laughing at me all my way down to the ground, without a scratch..

hmm, you are doing something wrong, I can assure you that the DII is a lot less fragile then the n17, as in all collisions (and trust me I´ve done A LOT) the angle and what hits what is most important.. in my oppinon, the only plane a tad bit over-stable in the nieuport-family is the N11, which has a very benevolent first damage absorbition (meaning that the change of severe damage on the first salvos is overproportionally low, ie: that plane holds together where compititors fall appart….)
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#32 Gadfly21

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:10

Does this happen with the Dr.1 or other aircraft with flying rudders?
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#33 gavagai

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:18

Thanks Artun. This is so easy to replicate I'm not even sure if I need to record a track. Just do a quick mission with a friendly N17 to shoot at (British or French N17 it doesn't matter), saddle on his 6, and do a little shooting at the tail feathers. The whole rudder will come off before you kill the pilot. This is from a direct 6 o'clock position where the only thing I can see is the edge of the rudder.

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#34 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:37

It's been reported in the core beta forums. I'll see what I can do to bump it.

Yes, I brought it up on the beta forum already (some time ago).
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#35 =AxA=V.Alexx

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 05:29


It as the wind blew from Halberstadt :xx: :(
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#36 SeaW0lf

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 15:28

It as the wind blew from Halberstadt :xx: :(

Now that I am paying more attention to it, in the last days I lost the rudder twice in a N11 too.

Are they going to fix it or the issue will be haunting the forum like many others? These planes are not only a pleasure to fly but they are also representative in most missions, especially the early ones.
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#37 J2_Jakob

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:14

hmm, you are doing something wrong, I can assure you that the DII is a lot less fragile then the n17, as in all collisions (and trust me I´ve done A LOT) the angle and what hits what is most important.. in my oppinon, the only plane a tad bit over-stable in the nieuport-family is the N11, which has a very benevolent first damage absorbition (meaning that the change of severe damage on the first salvos is overproportionally low, ie: that plane holds together where compititors fall appart….)

Well, I bought my D.II just recently, so I don't have enough flight time and collision experience with it (yet), but the strut system looks lot less fragile. By Alby I meant D.III or D.Va where the v-struts are made more or less the same way as the N17.
Pitty I have no records of collisions, maybe one day I'll make some. In some cases I was sure N17 will be damaged as badly as me due to angle and what hit what (well, just my guess) and I was very surprised he's still intact.
I am doing something wrong indeed. Mainly I shouldn't collide with planes at all. :roll: :oops:

Never managed to shoot off his rudder though. I always kill the pilot first.
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#38 SeaW0lf

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 22:44

Just as a reminder, today I lost the rudder of my N11. In the recent past I have lost it several times, since I play a lot with Nieuports at Wargrounds and Flying Circus.

So, is this a bug that will never be fixed? This post is almost one year old.
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#39 =HillBilly=

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 23:23

The Nieuports had a very weak rudder attachment, one bullet in the right place bye bye.Maybe in ROF it is a little over board, maybe not.http://www.finemodelworks.com/arizona-models/reference/Thumbs/Aircraft/France/Nieuport/17/Nieuport_17.html
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#40 SeaW0lf

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 00:29

I don't know, the Alexx video (vide above) seems to summarize it all. And to have it fly away in so many occasions we probably would have several accounts from the war time, like the wing fails in the V strutters.
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