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Heavy Artillery - Big guns


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#81 Genius

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 13:00

Hi,

@Vander, yes you have right, rof building sdk say:

Transparent *  * *   Flame effects, muzzle flashes

But even with game flash.dds, effect are not correct when i use "Transparent" material.

Modify:

- change yellow color, more darker
- increase shadows on side handles (opacity 75%=>100%, size 5px, distance 5pxl)
- adjust color (black => grey) and transparency (use normal+70%) of bare metal (I hesitated between overlay and normal mode)

Screens with hard light:

Image


Screens with medium light:

Image

Bye

Genius
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#82 Genius

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 14:55

Some new wip:

Image

Image

Image

Image

I don't know how to make weathering, with blur/smudge tool ?

Bye

Genius
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#83 Markow

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:33

:x big mama :)
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campribV.png


#84 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:20

It is a lovely BIG gun. :S!:

Is this camouflage image below (from your earlier post) the same as the camo in the pictures above? My, that yellow above in latest pictures is hard on the eyes… :0o: :D
Image

For weathering add a layer in Photoshop and start to paint with different styles of brush (not just a circle), then blur as needed, or even use the 'warp' feature to pull things into streaks. Try adding oil/grease smudges, dirt, dust, worn metal, etc. all in their own layers. Have a look at pictures of trains and rolling stock to get ideas of where these occur.

Or what some people do is cut/paste surfaces from actual images and place into the texture over the different parts. This is what I did for the Drifter to make a realistic looking old ship with little cosmetic maintenance (i.e. rust).

The most important thing to make a texture look 'natural' is that all the surfaces start to blend together a little bit from sunlight fading/oxidizing the paint, and a nice layer of dust and dirt.

Image
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#85 Genius

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 21:55

Hi,

Thanks

It is a lovely BIG gun. :S!:

Is this camouflage image below (from your earlier post) the same as the camo in the pictures above? My, that yellow above in latest pictures is hard on the eyes… :0o: :D

No, it's different (Paf had thought the yellow a bit too bright), i will found an intermediate color (it's difficult to found correct color because according to the light, effect are very different).

Thanks for the tips.

Bye

Genius
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#86 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:20

Yes, its not easy to find the correct colour to show ingame :)
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#87 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 15:15

Perhaps try editing the overall texture file for colour (in Photoshop: Image\Adjustments\Hue_Saturation) and experiment by reducing saturation maybe 10 to 20 points so the colours are not so vibrant.

I'll send a PM to you Genius…
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#88 Jason_Williams

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 22:21

Looking good guys! I want to bomb this in my Handley-Page! I foresee some fun missions.

Jason
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#89 Bucksnort

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 22:29

Looking good guys! I want to bomb this in my Handley-Page! I foresee some fun missions.

Jason

+1 :)
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#90 Blade_meister

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 03:39

Perhaps try editing the overall texture file for colour (in Photoshop: Image\Adjustments\Hue_Saturation) and experiment by reducing saturation maybe 10 to 20 points so the colours are not so vibrant.

I'll send a PM to you Genius…

Please help him Bandy.Genius, you do excellent 3d modeling and implementation, but the color saturation is awful :lol: (constructive criticism, nothing personal) :lol: . Once you get the Camo done right, this will be an excellent addition to ROF. Keep up the great work, you are almost there!

S!Blade<>< :S!:
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#91 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 11:15

Again fellows, I am no expert or pro here but believe I have a good eye for light, shadow, and colour. This is mostly due to a misspent youth building/painting/weathering aircraft and tank plastic models then placing them in dioramas. So I understand a little about supplementing shadows and highlights to create a better looking miniature form, and it seems to translate to 3D modeling and texturing, though different execution and tools.

At the risk of appearing self-promoting, again, an object that looks 'freshly painted' will look unreal to the eye. Objects in nature take on some of their environment, dust and dirt from bottom up, and paint on upper surfaces will oxidize/fade with time due to sunlight exposure from top to bottom. Rust and grease will appear at wear points and moving parts. etc…

Knowing these basic things and adding them to the texture will make the 3D model look more real when placed in game. Sometimes you have to be subtle, sometimes heavy handed works best, it is hard to say what works in certain situations. I have been surprised by what looks best under VR lighting (though that may be personal preference), so best to just experiment.

The drifter images below are not in the best light but still explain better than words. The 3D model is the same, but the top image has a pronounced 'rub-rail' from bow to stern; that rub-rail is only in the texture not the mesh. The dark wood of the bridge/control room has shadows and highlights in texture because those surfaces are flat on the model. The little lifeboat and cover have a lot of fake shadows to provide more form. The rust streaks are sublime and help define the edges! And so on…
:D

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Image
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#92 DaveSax

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 12:05

I haven't read all the thread, but I presume we've had these two pictures by now. Monstrous cruelty. ;-)

Attached File  k1.jpg   26.97KB   597 downloads

Attached File  k2.jpg   62.41KB   598 downloads

Obviously part of the Royal Artillery Kitten Cannon detachment. Very hush hush. ;-)
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#93 Happyhaddock

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 13:10

Hi, I make my full time living as model maker (actual physical model rather than 3D computer models but I have done some skinning in ROF)and regularly teach workshops write/publish on weathering /distressing and the often overlooked subject of scale colour and the psychology of perception so would offer the following tips.

Most of what model makers call weathering has little to do with ageing and distressing models to make them look old/dirty and actually has more to do with false perception of scale and distance. The graphics in the digital nature engine are good and I can't claim to know exactly how it modifies colours with distance to simulate atmospheric haze but the following three things might be useful tips to help make things look more realistic based on what I'd do with paintbrushes on actual scale models and how I've applied this to skins in ROF.

1)Lightning colours, 2)reducing saturation, 3)introduce a randomness to the extent to which you lighten colours and reduce saturation across surfaces.

much software has a "change to target colour" function so if you pick a generic dirty pale creamy brown hue, set the opacity really low perhaps 5-10% with a soft feathered edge to the brush tool and generally work over different parts of the skin you could perhaps do a lot to improve the look. After that it would be down to actually painting specific rust and dirt patches to actually weather the surface skin and playing with the alpha channels to adjust reflectivity where you've applied this dirt

nevertheless looking good (whish I could build models on the PC)
Cheers HH
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#94 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 15:21

Hopefully this tangent discussion is helpful to overall making all introduced modded objects more realistic and pleasing to our eyes.

Most of what model makers call weathering has little to do with ageing and distressing models to make them look old/dirty and actually has more to do with false perception of scale and distance.
Perhaps what you call "weathering" in your community of model makers now deals with perception of scale and distance, but this aspect of differential application of colour was largely unknown in my time of model making.

Having to change colour/hue/saturation with changing scale, i.e. faking distance perception because you are painting a 1:72 verses a 1:35 scale kit, is more appropriately called aerial_perspective(now drawing on my art/art history education) and this process seems to be indicated further in your post by these comments.
1)Lightning colours, 2)reducing saturation, 3)introduce a randomness to the extent to which you lighten colours and reduce saturation across surfaces.

The term "weathering" as known to me, or making an object appear used, dirty, rusty, or otherwise exposed to the weather/elements etc. seems more aptly applied but it is all somantics. Perhaps "weathering" now refers to the holistic process of applying paint to make the model look real.
…After that it would be down to actually painting specific rust and dirt patches to actually weather the surface skin and playing with the alpha channels to adjust reflectivity where you've applied this dirt.

(whish I could build models on the PC)
Cheers HH
But you can! We all had to start somewhere, and I am sure you could make a great contribution. There are several very good free 3D modeling programs, Wings3D being the one I started on. As mentioned, the knowledge and skills-set transfers well, and you already appear to have knowledge of Photoshop or another image-adjusting program. So why not?
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#95 Happyhaddock

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 18:18

Syn-Bandy,

A you say much of what we are talking about is the same and it is simply the semantics of what we call it.

Aerial perspective is a term that would be lost upon or meaningless to most model makers, most still look at me blankly when I talk about scale colour but I at least feel this a term that attempts to be self explanatory. Although strictly speaking weathering is just the act of artificially simulating age and damage it is well understood by model makers, and it's hard to find a model maker that's good at weathering that isn't simultaneously accounting for "aerial perspective" or the effects of distance on our judgment of colour, even if doing so subconsciously, so the two topics are generally regarded as one and the same. It's just been my experience that when teaching novices about the subject most will consciously attempt to replicate dirt or rust but don't think about how our judgement of even the newest, cleanest and shiniest of surfaces are also altered by distance so they often wonder why their efforts are not as convincing as they might otherwise have hoped.

HH
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#96 Genius

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 22:34

Hi all,

Thanks for your advice and support.

Sorry, but i have many information and i'm a bit "lost" with this all terms.

Can you explain more some step ?

1) The base color

I understand for the saturation and i have reduced it by 30/45%. I also change yellow color.

Here some screenhots (with also some incorrect test of rust):

Image

Image


To reduced the reflective effect, i have tried to adjust color with a black layer at the top of layers with 30% of opacity.

Image

Image

For info, i have tried to adjust reflectivity on alpha channel but with no result ??

Image


2) old color effect

much software has a "change to target colour" function so if you pick a generic dirty pale creamy brown hue, set the opacity really low perhaps 5-10% with a soft feathered edge to the brush tool and generally work over different parts of the skin you could perhaps do a lot to improve the look.

I dont know, if this quote is relevant to this point because i don't understand. Could you explain (with example :xx: ) ?

Should i use "Dodge tool" and "Burn tool" to simulate part with more or less sun exposure ?


3) rust effect


I test rust effect with a layer color and black mask layer. In the layer mask, i use a grey color with a "stipple" brush on specific zone.

Image

I want to have this result but a long work in pespective :xx: :? :

minitracks.forumpersos.com/t1827-305mm-alvf-au-1-35eme

Image

Bye

Genius

P.S.: Sorry for my poor english
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#97 Blade_meister

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 02:30

This one looks best Genius, keep up the Good work. Maybe Bandy can help you weather it heavily.

S!Blade<><

Attached Files


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#98 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:36

Yes Genius! That is much better, I'm liking it a lot!

Adding an overall black layer at 30 to 50% opacity seems to produce an acceptable in-game colour tone, as you figured it out yourself. Excellent! I suspect having to darken the texture this way has something to do with the alpha channel texture, but I'm not sure why. I am just learning how to use alpha channel myself. Apologies for the side discussion posts on weathering, it must not have translated well.

If you have really good pictures of a model, or access to the real rail gun (as you show us above) then try to use those images in the texture itself.


Doing this involves a lot of image manipulation, cut/copy/paste, warping/skew/perspective, then blending/adjusting, and just being really creative with the Photoshop tools. In my opinion it will be worth the work. This 'technique' results in a very nice texture with realistic detail far beyond what a person can do with a paint brush in Photoshop. Below is a 3D Tiger tank I made as an experiment (very low poly count, most of these surfaces are flat) and then used images of a nicely 'weathered' scale plastic model in the texture. The alpha channel mask does not work in the simple 3D studio I used to make these renders (so the wheels are square and render with 'blocky' pixels).

I strongly suspect that if you fly past this Tiger in BoS at low altitude at 200+ km/h you will not notice the lack of mesh detail, it is not meant for a first person shooter after all, but as an air combat ground target. 8-)

Image
Image
Image
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#99 LordNeuro_Srb

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:22

Gr8 addons from both Genius and Bandy. And nice sugestions to make it more realistic and beter looking. Selfisly i cannt weit to see those amezing addons in rof.
S!

And big thx for hard work u moders r puting in rof to make it beter and more fun to fly for the rest of the comunity.
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#100 Genius

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 00:21

Hi,

Test with clone painting (blender tool) but hard to have the correct perspective for this and some parts are missing to complete.

Furthermore parts (handrails) are also reproduced in cloning and there are texture deformations.

Image

Image

Bye

Genius
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#101 Genius

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 14:25

Re,

I have tried to use as overlay layer.

I begin by desature at 100% the previous texture model.

Any way to suppress the white color (i try the replace color but withour result) ? Light colors are too visible through the layers of paint camouflage.

Image

Image
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#102 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 14:56

cool, the skin really starts to look good!
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#103 Blade_meister

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 03:09

Genius,
This is looking better and better. Keep up the good work, you are almost there. Maybe some heavy weathering on the light colors will take down there brightness? Bandy, Little Help here??? What do you suggest MR. Weathering??? :lol:

S!Blade<>< :S!:

p.s. Will this gun actually raise the barrel and fire? ;)
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#104 SeaW0lf

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 05:54

p.s. Will this gun actually raise the barrel and fire? ;)

That's a good question :D It would be awesome if it could. But it would not compromise otherwise. It is a nice target anyway.
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"There will be honor enough for us all."

#105 caketin

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 08:04

Truly excellent work, tres bien.
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#106 Genius

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 11:50

Thanks all, :)


p.s. Will this gun actually raise the barrel and fire? ;)


Yes:

Image
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#107 Blade_meister

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 13:35

Thanks all, :)


p.s. Will this gun actually raise the barrel and fire? ;)


Yes:

Image

YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I can't wait until you are satisfird with your baby and release it to us. Very, Very Nice Sir!!!

S!Blade<><
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#108 Bf-110

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:24

Is it possible to add recoil?
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#109 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:30

Test with clone painting (blender tool) but hard to have the correct perspective for this and some parts are missing to complete.

Furthermore parts (handrails) are also reproduced in cloning and there are texture deformations.

Image

That gun is really looking great! I'm not familiar with a "clone painting tool", but sounds very helpful to get a good starting base texture to work from.

Yes, there will be parts that need to have perspective corrected, or completely filled in (missing from original image), or erased like the hand rails. I simply use Photoshop tools (skew, perspective, or warp) to correct, and copy parts of the real image and then reshape to make new parts. It can take a lot of work to apply real images to the texture map, but it looks great and you've done a wonderful job.

I have tried to use as overlay layer.
I begin by desature at 100% the previous texture model.

Any way to suppress the white color (i try the replace color but withour result) ? Light colors are too visible through the layers of paint camouflage.
RE: the 'white' poking through your overlay camouflage layer, I can only suggest that you will need to correct the base texture image layer (the green and white camo) by Photoshop copy, paste, and blend parts of the green colour sections on top of the white to cover it.

Then again, the render images you show us above with the green and white looks good just like that (after correction of course). Is the two colour camo not correct for WWI?

You could also try to use just the base green and white camo layer, duplicate this layer, and then erase parts off that are not brown (you need brown to make it 3 colour). Then use Photoshop colour correction to make that layer brown.

Nobody said texture production was easy, it is a lot of fussy work, but when you get it right, it feels good. :D

:S!:
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#110 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:54

The muzzle blast effect is very nice.

Is it possible to add recoil?
I believe Vander figured out how to make gun recoil work for our Tirpitz battery project, but the barrel needs to be made in sections so they can 'telescope' inside one another.
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#111 R0bwin

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 15:56

Very good Looking ! :S!:
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#112 SeaW0lf

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 16:27

Indeed looking awesome :S!:
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#113 DaveSax

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 12:12

Fantastic. Hopefully we'll get to …. drop bombs on it. ;-)
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#114 Genius

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 23:20

Hi,

Thanks all for your continuous support (although this project took a bit of time to be reactivated. I have a lot of idea…., but not very time, skill and efficiency) :D

Is it possible to add recoil?

Already done, the gun barrel have no recoil, this railway artillery use a sliding truck. Video below (see at 2:50 to 4:00)

www.ecpad.fr/wp-content/files_mf/127488110517_jdg_16.mp4

Yes, there will be parts that need to have perspective corrected, or completely filled in (missing from original image), or erased like the hand rails. I simply use Photoshop tools (skew, perspective, or warp) to correct, and copy parts of the real image and then reshape to make new parts. It can take a lot of work to apply real images to the texture map, but it looks great and you've done a wonderful job.

I found "wrap" in photoshop cs3 but not perspective and skew :xx:


RE: the 'white' poking through your overlay camouflage layer, I can only suggest that you will need to correct the base texture image layer (the green and white camo) by Photoshop copy, paste, and blend parts of the green colour sections on top of the white to cover it.

Thanks, i will try :S!:


Then again, the render images you show us above with the green and white looks good just like that (after correction of course). Is the two colour camo not correct for WWI?

I found numerous photo without camo, with a 2 or 3 colors camo. The three colors camouflage seem to be a current early camo (1916-late 1917) and the 2 colors a late camo (1918 and wwII)

www.chars-francais.net/new/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=637&Itemid=74
March 1917 A text says "whitewash matt colors color ocher, green and black, so as to break the regularity of surfaces." The spots are often bounded by dark circles. The separating lines are broken. A piece bitten in 1916 Figure mortar camouflaged 4 colors: sienna, dark green, yellow ocher, black (with, in addition, probably, the original gray). These provisions affect all French artillery larger pieces (ALVF) for field guns. They involve tractors and artillery caissons. Obviously, they influence the tanks that are part of this weapon.

Image
Image
Image
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#115 Blade_meister

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:43

Genius, please, can we have her now? She is begging to be bombed?Please? Please? Pretty Please???
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

S!Blade<>< You do superb work Sir! I really like the 2 color camo also, but it would be nice to also have the 3 color camo. Keep up the good work Sir :S!:
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#116 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 07:41

Very good.

Is it just me, or does it need to be darker to not stand out quite so much from the other rolling stock (train cars). Did you use the overall black layer at 30 to 50% opacity?

The PS tools you are looking for are under: Edit/Transform/…

Under the …/Transform/… menu is: Scale, Rotate, Skew, Distort, Perspective, and Warp. I do not know what they would be en Français.

Each tool does something slightly different to the shape selected when it is manipulated, so experiment to understand when to use which one.

Warp is very powerful, but is also heavy-handed and can make a mess of pixel detail. That said, you can use warp to make nicely feathered rust, dirt, and grease streaks! :D

Interesting video, thanks for link! :S!:
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#117 Jason_Williams

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 20:58

I definitely want to bomb this!

Jason
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#118 PCDurum

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 21:30

Looks wonderful now Genius! How far will my plane be spread over the sky if one of it's shells should hit me by chance? Another added titbit for the next update perhaps Jason? :D
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#119 J.j.

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 21:43

Another added titbit for the next update perhaps Jason? :D

Will there be one? :?:
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#120 Genius

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 22:44

Hi all, thanks :P

Very good.

Is it just me, or does it need to be darker to not stand out quite so much from the other rolling stock (train cars). Did you use the overall black layer at 30 to 50% opacity?

The PS tools you are looking for are under: Edit/Transform/…

Under the …/Transform/… menu is: Scale, Rotate, Skew, Distort, Perspective, and Warp. I do not know what they would be en Français.

Each tool does something slightly different to the shape selected when it is manipulated, so experiment to understand when to use which one.

Warp is very powerful, but is also heavy-handed and can make a mess of pixel detail. That said, you can use warp to make nicely feathered rust, dirt, and grease streaks! :D

Interesting video, thanks for link! :S!:

Thanks, yes i use a black opacity layer (normal 52%), i will try with more opacity.

Found the tools, thanks :S!:


Genius, please, can we have her now? She is begging to be bombed?Please? Please? Pretty Please???

Sorry too early (the 3d model for damaged are not made, need to finish undamaged texture before) ;)



Looks wonderful now Genius! How far will my plane be spread over the sky if one of it's shells should hit me by chance? Another added titbit for the next update perhaps Jason?

Current shell can destroy you at 35 km with big effect radius. :x

Current shell at 20 km (but 30 km work with less precision)
Image

Bye

Genius
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