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Co-Op Corner Missions & Feedback Thread


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#1 -Requiem-

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 00:28

After reading the MP threads lately I thought I'd start a thread and see what sort of Co-ops would people like to see, or if anyone would play on a server using Co-op mode. It has been a very long time since Co-Op mode was really used and I think that's a shame as it a very good way to foster teamwork towards achieving a set objective. I believe that Co-op is under utilised right now, and with BoS in development it would be handy to be able to offer something in this mode for when it comes out.

The main things I thought were important for a Co-Op mission:
1) Less than 30mins
2) Randomisation for replayability

3) Planeset balance
4) Accessibility for demo users

As I make missions I will update this thread with links to download them. At the moment I'm only offering the 16 player versions for download, but if these types of missions become more popular with the community then someone can run a server using the 32 player versions if they want them.

After downloading the files, extract the mission files to your /data/multiplayer/cooperative folder, and extract any jpegs to the /data folder)

Mission Download List for 16 player versions (click to download)
1. Eliminate GeneralOberst Klein (16p) V1.4
2. Schusta 27b Raid Near Arras (16p) V1.3
3. Boghol 3 Attacking Dover (16p) V1.2
4. No.59 Squadron Recon Over Douai (16p) V1.3
5. Revenge of the Felixstowe! (16p) V1.2
6. The Independent Air Force V5 - Written By SYN_Vander
7. Belgians at Oostende (16p) V1.0
8. Roland C.IIa Visual Recon (16p) V1.0
9. F.E.2b Attack Near Laon (16p) V1.0

.sds file addition
file="Cooperative\F.E.2b Attack Near Laon (16p) V1.0"
file="Cooperative\Roland C.IIa Visual Recon (16p) V1.0"
file="Cooperative\Belgians at Oostende (16p) V1.0"
file="Cooperative\The Independent Air Force v5"
file="Cooperative\Revenge of the Felixstowe! (16p) V1.2"
file="Cooperative\Boghol 3 Attacking Dover (16p) V1.2"
file="Cooperative\No.59 Squadron Recon Over Douai (16p) V1.3"
file="Cooperative\Schusta 27b Raid Near Arras (16p) V1.2"
file="Cooperative\Eliminate GeneralOberst Klein! (16p) V1.3"

I've changed the order of the .sds addition above so we can test the latest mission first.

Finally, I encourage you to discuss any specific ideas you have for Co-Op missions here!
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#2 JG1_Vonrd_J10

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 00:53

Sounds great Requiem! Having gotten into ROF post co-op I have no experience of it, but having a defined mission and incentive for teamplay sounds just the ticket. Best time for me is Saturday from 09:00 to 18:00 Pacific time. I will try to make it any time that it's scheduled though.
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#3 Panthercules

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:05

Sounds like a lot of fun. I don't play MP (except for beta testing), but if I did I would prefer the coop-style of play, so I'd be happy to take a whack at this one to help you test the theory.

BTW - I made a JSGME-ready version of the 16-plane mission for my own use, and have uploaded it here in case anybody else would find that helpful (link updated for new version posted on 27 June 2013):

http://www.mediafire...2_for_JSGME.zip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mediafire.../download/a7oc1 … _JSGME.zip

I fired up a server and started the mission, and everything seems to be working just fine, at least for the first minute or so - didn't have time to run through the whole thing yet.
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#4 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:21

Sounds good, Req …but (there it is!)…I would lose the N28s. They are the most poorly modeled plane in the set, flying nothing like the real aircraft. In fact, their presence in the mission would dissuade me from flying Allied. Make 'em all SPADs or toss in some Breguets.

Do AI fly the planes that have no human pilots or do the planes just vanish?

I'd be glad to go online and help you test it, though. Name the date and time.

I'll try and test it on my own tomorrow (wed).
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#5 BroadSide

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:25

I'd be happy to meet to fly this. I'd probably only fly german planes as the entente planes arent much fun to fly (tho for sake of balance of teams I'd fly a spad for one mission)(n28 and spad are the least enjoyable planes in the sim for me).

On other missions it would be nice to have the camel/dr1/pfaltz d3/dolphin.
Also, an early war mission with EIIIs would be fun.
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#6 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:34

Barn, if it's a proper Co-op, you shouldn't have to worry about "balance".
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#7 Descolada

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:48

Maybe split the N28s into 8 pups and 2 se5s? That gives the allies a lot of bnz though. May be able to get away with some N17s though given that most of the central craft are only DIIIs.
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#8 -Requiem-

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:12

Sounds good, Req …but (there it is!)…I would lose the N28s. They are the most poorly modeled plane in the set, flying nothing like the real aircraft. In fact, their presence in the mission would dissuade me from flying Allied. Make 'em all SPADs or toss in some Breguets.

Do AI fly the planes that have no human pilots or do the planes just vanish?

I'd be glad to go online and help you test it, though. Name the date and time.

I'll try and test it on my own tomorrow (wed).

Yeah I wasn't sure about the N28s, it was more of a nostalgia thing throwing them in there. I just wanted to avoid a ton of bombed up Spads making short work of ground targets, but for this mission I would probably recommend locking loadouts to avoid that problem. I always felt that N28s and Spads go together in a mission (maybe Spad XIIIs and Spad VII 180s would be better?), but I could always change the planeset to be Dolphins and SE5s instead. Feel free to mess around with the Entente planesets tomorrow if you like.

Also, AI fly any planes that aren't selected before mission start, and while each flight has a set of waypoints which help them encounter the other aircraft, for obvious reasons it's preferable to have humans pick the flight lead positions first.

Maybe split the N28s into 8 pups and 2 se5s? That gives the allies a lot of bnz though. May be able to get away with some N17s though given that most of the central craft are only DIIIs.

I would only include Pups if the fuel levels were locked, but I wouldn't be too worried about lots of BnZ aircraft because the mission requires quick decisions by the Entente force to take out the commander, so they can't just mess around :)

I'd be happy to meet to fly this. I'd probably only fly german planes as the entente planes arent much fun to fly (tho for sake of balance of teams I'd fly a spad for one mission)(n28 and spad are the least enjoyable planes in the sim for me).

On other missions it would be nice to have the camel/dr1/pfaltz d3/dolphin.
Also, an early war mission with EIIIs would be fun.

Yeah, I definitely have early war stuff in mind and these will make use of decent altitude airstarts to negate the monotonous take off and climb of those early planes.

I'll post an idea for the next co-op tomorrow sometime and I'm thinking this Saturday about 2pm Central to test out the "Commander" mission to allow for any planeset/other tweaks I'll add before then.
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#9 =IRFC=Harock

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:14

I miss the days of co-op.
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#10 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:04

Okay. Got curious, Couldn't wait til tomorrow, set up a Test Coop and took it for a ride..

Flew a Noop 28 (Capt. Eddie)(don't get me wrong, I think it's the most elegant looking plane in the set, it just should T&B and instead the model is only good for bnz).

The AI doesn't disappear! Bravo!

Got into a huge furball and the D7fs got me (The N28 can outrun them at low alt, though).

The only real problem is: I had no idea what I was doing. There was no briefing, so I just followed the waypoints.

Everything worked well, though. Will try it again in the a.m.

Thanks, Req!
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#11 BroadSide

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:03

SE5As and Dolphins would be very enjoyable.
I remember the old days when there was always a couple of N28s in the co-op plane set and Tushka would always take one.
Interestingly, I flew a lot of planes that I never would choose to, because all the other planes were taken. However, I did enjoy the occasional flight in a N28, etc. Maybe have a couple of odd planes in the mix (2 Spad XIIIs, 4 Spad VIIs, 2 N28s, 1 SE5a, 1 Dolphin)….just an idea.
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#12 SYN_Vander

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:02

Nice to see things going in full circle after all these years. I think I still have a number of co-ops on my disk, one also about going for a general in a train, lol.

We (Syndicate) have hosted co-ops for months on our second server and it was mostly ignored. So the key success factor will be to organize players so they will join at the same time.

Btw, I love co-ops! Good initiative!

My vision of fun MP would be to have a number of servers offering different sort of co-op missions and the ability (if allowed by the server!) to jump into the middle of the mission by getting into an AI aircraft. This way you could fly more "realistic" scenarios, even if you have limited time.
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#13 hq_Jorri

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:12

This is great! Wonderful even :D

KEep the N28's, though, I say. It's just about the only mission format where they can be used and there are still people who enjoy flying them (I wouldn't mind it, myself)…..as long as they only meet Mercedes engines as opposition.

Also, perhaps this is worth a thought: I would like to see coops that are less competitive. Meaning, not everyones mission revolves around the same objective.

Rather, you can give each side a set of their own objectives and they don't even have to relate, but it just so happens that different flights will clash with eachother, and of course there are those with the objective to patrol their or the enemy's lines. It will become a much more dynamic mission, this way, especially if you can also add the randomised element into it so that you will never know when and where you can expect to meet the enemy, even after replaying the mission.
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#14 actionjoe

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:32

one also about going for a general in a train, lol.

It seems to be a classic, I remember a coop made by la 12f, about a french general who inspect frontline in Breguet, it was a good one.

Rather, you can give each side a set of their own objectives and they don't even have to relate, but it just so happens that different flights will clash with eachother, and of course there are those with the objective to patrol their or the enemy's lines. It will become a much more dynamic mission, this way, especially if you can also add the randomised element into it so that you will never know when and where you can expect to meet the enemy, even after replaying the mission.

+1
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#15 J.j.

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:42

KEep the N28's, though, I say. It's just about the only mission format where they can be used and there are still people who enjoy flying them (I wouldn't mind it, myself)…..as long as they only meet Mercedes engines as opposition.

I have to disagree with this one. We played a campaign some time ago about the battle around Chateau Thierry, July 1918.
We flied a mix of Nieuport 28/ SPAD VII against Fokker DVII and DVIIF. It was a very fun campaign, and not so unbalanced, as long as every DVII is not a DVIIF. We had a hard time too, but it was as "the real thing", Americans did suffer severe losses agaisnt JG I at this time. What enhanced this campaing also was the "non-comms" rules we flied with.
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#16 -Requiem-

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:55

Okay. Got curious, Couldn't wait til tomorrow, set up a Test Coop and took it for a ride..

Flew a Noop 28 (Capt. Eddie)(don't get me wrong, I think it's the most elegant looking plane in the set, it just should T&B and instead the model is only good for bnz).

The AI doesn't disappear! Bravo!

Got into a huge furball and the D7fs got me (The N28 can outrun them at low alt, though).

The only real problem is: I had no idea what I was doing. There was no briefing, so I just followed the waypoints.

Everything worked well, though. Will try it again in the a.m.

Thanks, Req!

The briefing is there HT, unless its not in the one I uploaded for some reason. Firstly, it should be under the "mission" button after you select an aircraft. I'm not sure how to get the formatting right in this box though because the ME requires me to write it all in one single line of text. Secondly, after you spawn in a picture should appear on your screen showing the targets to be attacked/defended (that works on my PC, not sure if it did on yours). Finally, on your ingame map there are icons for general "search areas" where the General may possibly be located.

I don't want it to be too easy for the Entente as they wouldn't have much idea where he is and need to search, but Central would exactly what he will be doing so they receive this information via subtitles.
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#17 -Requiem-

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:18

This is great! Wonderful even :D

KEep the N28's, though, I say. It's just about the only mission format where they can be used and there are still people who enjoy flying them (I wouldn't mind it, myself)…..as long as they only meet Mercedes engines as opposition.

Also, perhaps this is worth a thought: I would like to see coops that are less competitive. Meaning, not everyones mission revolves around the same objective.

Rather, you can give each side a set of their own objectives and they don't even have to relate, but it just so happens that different flights will clash with eachother, and of course there are those with the objective to patrol their or the enemy's lines. It will become a much more dynamic mission, this way, especially if you can also add the randomised element into it so that you will never know when and where you can expect to meet the enemy, even after replaying the mission.

Giving each side their own objective is doable, but I'm not 100% on the mechanics of multiple objectives yet. From what I can tell it looks like only the final objective activated counts towards a victory condition, so I might have to add secondary objectives in addition to primaries to do what you suggest above.
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#18 SYN_Vander

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 14:11

Okay. Got curious, Couldn't wait til tomorrow, set up a Test Coop and took it for a ride..

Flew a Noop 28 (Capt. Eddie)(don't get me wrong, I think it's the most elegant looking plane in the set, it just should T&B and instead the model is only good for bnz).

The AI doesn't disappear! Bravo!

Got into a huge furball and the D7fs got me (The N28 can outrun them at low alt, though).

The only real problem is: I had no idea what I was doing. There was no briefing, so I just followed the waypoints.

Everything worked well, though. Will try it again in the a.m.

Thanks, Req!

The briefing is there HT, unless its not in the one I uploaded for some reason. Firstly, it should be under the "mission" button after you select an aircraft. I'm not sure how to get the formatting right in this box though because the ME requires me to write it all in one single line of text. Secondly, after you spawn in a picture should appear on your screen showing the targets to be attacked/defended (that works on my PC, not sure if it did on yours). Finally, on your ingame map there are icons for general "search areas" where the General may possibly be located.

I don't want it to be too easy for the Entente as they wouldn't have much idea where he is and need to search, but Central would exactly what he will be doing so they receive this information via subtitles.

The briefing should be in HTML format. But if you include a newline character (return) than the rest of the text will not show in the game!
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#19 Trooper117

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 14:27

Probably give it a go :)..
It doesn't have to be 'balanced' either… war is never balanced.
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#20 ChiefRedCloud

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 15:01

Great to see a flurry of a COOP renaissance finally. I'd be happy to participate. And perhaps QuQi could find a way we can host a larger COOP at New Wings if there is enough interest.
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#21 LordNeuro_Srb

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 15:09

I would defenetly tray the coop mission. So if there is a mission on server and need testing i m up for it. It only depends on free time wich is less these days but i would defenetly find same to give it a go. I hope to see it live soon.
Gr8 Requiem and thx for u effort. :S!:
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#22 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 15:47

Okay. Got curious, Couldn't wait til tomorrow, set up a Test Coop and took it for a ride..

Flew a Noop 28 (Capt. Eddie)(don't get me wrong, I think it's the most elegant looking plane in the set, it just should T&B and instead the model is only good for bnz).

The AI doesn't disappear! Bravo!

Got into a huge furball and the D7fs got me (The N28 can outrun them at low alt, though).

The only real problem is: I had no idea what I was doing. There was no briefing, so I just followed the waypoints.

Everything worked well, though. Will try it again in the a.m.

Thanks, Req!

The briefing is there HT, unless its not in the one I uploaded for some reason. Firstly, it should be under the "mission" button after you select an aircraft. I'm not sure how to get the formatting right in this box though because the ME requires me to write it all in one single line of text. Secondly, after you spawn in a picture should appear on your screen showing the targets to be attacked/defended (that works on my PC, not sure if it did on yours). Finally, on your ingame map there are icons for general "search areas" where the General may possibly be located.

I don't want it to be too easy for the Entente as they wouldn't have much idea where he is and need to search, but Central would exactly what he will be doing so they receive this information via subtitles.

Nope, The only thing I had to go by was the map and the nav icons.

I'll fly it again today, maybe I missed something. I'll try it from the Central side as well.

I really appreciate your effort to start making Coops again!

Thank you!
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#23 gavagai

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 15:59

Hi Requiem,

This seems neat, but not much like WW1? I will give it a try when I make it back to my desktop machine.
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#24 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 16:01

My vision of fun MP would be to have a number of servers offering different sort of co-op missions and the ability (if allowed by the server!) to jump into the middle of the mission by getting into an AI aircraft. This way you could fly more "realistic" scenarios, even if you have limited time.

Vander, with great respect, I really disagree with having the ability to "jump into the middle of the mission" in a Coop.

In my view of running a Coop (which we did forever in IL-2 as well as in Steel Beasts), each side joins up before the mission starts (which is why it requires some sort of lobby or meeting place), you pick the flight leaders or mission commander, the commander decides how the mission will be flown, issues his OPORD and you fly as a unit with the AI pilots following along).

If you allow someone to join in while a mission is in progress, you won't have any unit cohesion, the guy who comes in late won't know the plan, and it becomes the usual MP free-for-all very quickly. This is the fatal flaw in your Vintage Missions. They fall apart as players come and go or players die and respawn.

Get you sides together, lock the door so no one can just jump in, pick a chain of command, the mission commander issues his order (usually pretty obvious from the briefing) and take off together.

Success depends on acting as a unit.

@gavagai: Yeah, the basic premise in this scenario in this is pretty silly. I doubt any fighter pilots ever searched for any general in WWI as the US searched for Yamamoto in WWII. But at least it's a start.

:S!:
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#25 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 16:05

the guy who comes in late won't know the plan

Because you are all sworn to secrecy once the mission starts?
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#26 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 16:10

the guy who comes in late won't know the plan

Because you are all sworn to secrecy once the mission starts?

No, Robin, I'm not going to bite at another of your nasty little trolls; if you can't figure out what I'm saying (the unit commander only issues his plan once, not every time some clown just drops in).

That's the nature of a Coop. If you're not there at the start, wait for the next one.
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#27 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 16:19

Cuz the plans are so complicated that mere mortals need lots of time to comprehend the details?
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#28 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 16:21

Having said that, sitting around and waiting for you to finish does sound like fun. I can't understand why those coop servers were empty…
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#29 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 16:27

They were empty because there was no place (like HyperLobby) for players to meet up, get organized and start together.
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#30 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 16:34

No, I'm sure it was because everyone was having so much fun sitting around waiting that they didn't want to ruin the fun by actually flying a mission.

Or, I suppose, they didn't know about Teamspeak.
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#31 -Requiem-

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 16:57

HT,

I don't know why the briefing text (probably a HTML thing) or that media graphic wouldn't show up as they did on my machine when I tested it. I'll look into it tonight though, thanks for having a go and giving the feedback.


Hi Requiem,

This seems neat, but not much like WW1? I will give it a try when I make it back to my desktop machine.
Gav,
This mission was a just a test for me to see if I could make a mission that randomises objectives and gauge interest level in this style of mission. I prefer to make historical missions, such as the recreations Tom Cundall and I did, but I don't want to make co-ops that go for an hour or more as those are for more organised events. If someone misses the mission start they won't want to wait around that long. I'm thinking of missions along the lines of balloon busting, recon flights, night bombings, defensive/offensive patrols, so that when both sides are randomly assigned these roles it should make for an interesting flight. Essentially, a quick single sortie that gives a good chance of action instead of flying around aimlessly for an hour trying to find anything to shoot at.

Personally, flying in dogfight mode feels like groundhog day since each side is doing the same thing. Its like hide and seek but the roles are fixed. Ie - Entente searches for Central and Central waits for Entente, so hopefully these types of missions will help in that respect somewhat.
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#32 Trooper117

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 17:09

Ah, I see, hmm… I thought it was going to be a co-op like in IL2, where you start, and if you crash on take off, it's tough, but you are out. If you are shot down early on, your out. If you over rev your engine and then it packs up, your out… wait for the mission to finish then you start fresh..
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#33 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 17:12

Ah, I see, hmm… I thought it was going to be a co-op like in IL2, where you start, and if you crash on take off, it's tough, but you are out. If you are shot down early on, your out. If you over rev your engine and then it packs up, your out… wait for the mission to finish then you start fresh..

I'm pretty sure that's how coops work now.
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#34 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 17:22

Ah, I see, hmm… I thought it was going to be a co-op like in IL2, where you start, and if you crash on take off, it's tough, but you are out. If you are shot down early on, your out. If you over rev your engine and then it packs up, your out… wait for the mission to finish then you start fresh..

Well, yeah, that's the point….I think…I hope….The really well-written IL2 Coops were great!

And they were Dead is Dead.

That's the good part about having a Lobby. In IL2, if you died, you just went back to HyperLobby and talked trash on the live chat. Someone would put up another mission pretty quickly.

I really don't know why 777 didn't create an actual Lobby in the game.

We had (they still do) one as a built-in part of Steel Beasts. And that's a much smaller community than RoF.

We also had scheduled Coops: Friday nights and Sunday mornings (in US time, most of the players were European and most were or had been real tankers). Real chain of command (the battalion commander actually was a retired Royal Armoured Corps sergeant major and he knew his stuff!), real tactics, real commo procedure. Some of those Sunday missions would go on for six to eight hours.

The whole point is to make it more real. It's for folks whose time isn't limited and who set the time aside.

I'm excited Req is experimenting with Coops. That's the one thing that would bring me back to MP.

:S!:

HT
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#35 BroadSide

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 18:06

Watching the action after your plane goes down is quite entertaining. Besides the camaraderie, there's quite a bit to learn on plane handling as you watch pilots fly.
Crashing and waiting for the next mission never really bothered me.
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#36 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 18:30

I'm always wary of having external views in MP.

It leads to "ghosting" or, after you're dead, finding the enemy and vectoring your buddies to them on TeamSpeak.

If it were up to me, I would lose external views in MP, certainly in Coops.
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#37 Fabioccio

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 18:44

Essentially, a quick single sortie that gives a good chance of action instead of flying around aimlessly for an hour trying to find anything to shoot at.

Personally, flying in dogfight mode feels like groundhog day since each side is doing the same thing. Its like hide and seek but the roles are fixed. Ie - Entente searches for Central and Central waits for Entente, so hopefully these types of missions will help in that respect somewhat.
+ 1

I'm interested.
But please, let early killed player (me) spectate so they could enjoy while waiting for the mission end.
:)
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#38 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 19:27

Essentially, a quick single sortie that gives a good chance of action instead of flying around aimlessly for an hour trying to find anything to shoot at.

Personally, flying in dogfight mode feels like groundhog day since each side is doing the same thing. Its like hide and seek but the roles are fixed. Ie - Entente searches for Central and Central waits for Entente, so hopefully these types of missions will help in that respect somewhat.
+ 1

I'm interested.
But please, let early killed player (me) spectate so they could enjoy while waiting for the mission end.
:)

If it leads to ghosting, no. I quit a squad (won't mention any names; they're still around) over this issue. They wouldn't stop doing it and it really was a huge cheat.

If you need entertainment that much, find a book to read while you wait. :mrgreen:
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#39 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 19:30

I predict that it won't be a problem.
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The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#40 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 20:01

Aha! Found the briefing!

But it still doesn't tell me where to go or what to do.

Took another N.28 ride. I got a "target" symbol (Nav On) but there wasn't anything there.

Again, it wasn't clear whether I should look for a target there or move to another search area.

Sri to appear so dense, but, well, sometimes I am. :mrgreen:
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