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Did I get screwed? - Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2


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#41 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:01

Don't worry about the red trigger, mine does not have it and it is a good stick, won't trade for any other and nowadays finding something with force feedback at a decent price is impossible it seems.
Red trigger is pure cosmetic. Read it on the interwebs… :D
Really, there is no difference b/t silver and red trigger, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Can I be part of the MSFFB2 club too?
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#42 Dutch2

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:20

Don't worry about the red trigger, mine does not have it and it is a good stick, won't trade for any other and nowadays finding something with force feedback at a decent price is impossible it seems.
Red trigger is pure cosmetic. Read it on the interwebs… :D
Really, there is no difference b/t silver and red trigger, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Can I be part of the MSFFB2 club too?
Not, if intimidate another member with a dead threat, which is btw not allowed in the "club"


Difference is that between the red and silver trigger can only be confirmed by people who have both sticks, but indeed I do think it is only optical. One has wrote on the net that the red is better on XP!!

I only can tell from my experience as a former owner of of the first gameport MS-ForcefeedbackPro and my actual USB MS-FF2. That the handle of the old gameport type was not rubberised and did not have a red trigger.
My USB MS-FF2 has a rubberized handle that is sticky, but that is easily fixed by using magnesium or talc powder. Also the MS-FF2 I did buy for W1ndy has also a sticky handle. Is this a problem no.

On the writings that the red one is better on XP!! I never had any XP problems in using my old gameport MS-FFpro on the old Pentium4/XP-ME PC. If these would occur then they would be sure on a old gameport one.
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#43 Dooga

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:47

My silver one is perfectly fine on Win7 (and also was on XP).
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#44 Dutch2

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:55

My silver one is perfectly fine on Win7 (and also was on XP).

Does the handle have a rubberized coating :?:
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#45 Dooga

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:00

My silver one is perfectly fine on Win7 (and also was on XP).

Does the handle have a rubberized coating :?:

Nope, naked plastics.
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#46 Dutch2

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:11

Solved, the red trigger has the rubberized coating and the silver not, that seems to be the only difference??
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#47 Spag

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:22

Damn, I only have the silver one!

I want a red one now as well.
A 'red, rubberized, stICKy one' sounds kinda sexy. Doesn't it?

Don't answer, its ok, I think I should just stop reading raaaaid's posts.
I see that HQ-Jorri has already fell into the mire of sexual references after reading raaaaid's latest posts.

Cheers,
Spag. :)
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Bite off more than you can chew.

Then chew like Hell ! ! !


#48 Dutch2

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 15:46

The problem with the silver one is they get Spaged, I know Riaaaaaaaaaaaaaad can explain why and how to solve that problem :lol:
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Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#49 J5_Rumey

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 15:31

My last working msffb2, this is an old pic handle kept coming off in middle of dogfights so it is now totally covered in electrical tape. TBH longer handle doesn't help me much was flying better with the other one I had. Only saving grace is that I made the FFB on/off with a switch and not that interrelating grip sensor.

Image



Seriously considering a T16000 :S!: But probably just end up buying and abusing another old msffb2
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#50 Dutch2

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 16:05

I know few guy did made a succesful longer handle
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#51 TX-EcoDragon

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 16:20

Solved, the red trigger has the rubberized coating and the silver not, that seems to be the only difference??


Yes, and this was "solved" a long time ago.

TBH longer handle doesn't help me much was flying better with the other one I had.

Seriously considering a T16000 :S!: But probably just end up buying and abusing another old msffb2

Running an extended stick really only makes sense if you can add resistance, or if you are starting with a stick that has a fair amount (because you are increasing leverage, and need something to resist your inputs somewhat). The FFB2 doesn't. It also uses pots [EDIT: actually, I think I remember that MS used to use Optical sensors, and this stick probably does too!], which may limit the resolution of the stick, and this may become more apparent with the longer handles - especially if the pots have any spikes or deadzones.
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#52 gavagai

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 16:25

The MSFFB2 is perfectly capable of adding "friction" to stick movements. There's a little app for it that can do that. We don't have it in most flight sims because the developers don't utilize it.

http://forums.eagle....12&d=1364942436" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://forums.eagle....ttachment.php?a … 1364942436
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#53 hq_Jorri

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 16:32

Others are sayin that it doesnt use pots?
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#54 Dutch2

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 17:27

Solved, the red trigger has the rubberized coating and the silver not, that seems to be the only difference??


Yes, and this was "solved" a long time ago.

.

Seems some had still there doubts
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#55 =69.GIAP=STENKA

=69.GIAP=STENKA
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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:17

I've had 5-6 MSFF2 sticks, stripped, repaired and modded. Both Red trigger and grey trigger.

Here are a couple

Image
Image

As far as I can see there is no significant difference between red and grey - it is cosmetic, they seem to work the same and the internal parts are interchangable. I think the Red trigger were later and therefore newer. But now newness is less important than how much the stick has been used.

When you buy on E-Bay they often arrive without the power cable. People sell them because they haven't used them in ages and don't remember where that cable went. However it is just a simple cable identical to dozens of other houshold items. The different voltages and cycles of USA/European power supply are dealt with by the transformer circuit board within the stick.

It is also common to find that the trigger and other switches on the stick are U/S after having been brutalised by brats playing shootemup games.

There is one pot in the stick, it's in the handle giving the rudder axis. This is a nasty small plastic cased item which is often spikey or not working at all. The seller probably never needed that axis so won't have noticed it doesn't work.

If you are paying a good price, ask if the power cable is included, ask if every button works, ask if the rudder axis tests clean in control panel calibration. A perfect stick may go for 100+ Dollars/Euros. Personaly I have bought them from 1 Euro up to 50 Euros and expect that it won't be perfect (strangely enough the 1 Euro stick was perfect and several who's sellers claimed they were in fully good working order weren't). These are heavy items and postage costs often make it too expensive to send it back for refund.

The X and Y axes do not use pots, they use sensors, I think they are Hall sensors, but I have never had to touch them. They are incredibly reliable very precise, do not break, do not need recalibrating.

The light sensors are in the handle to see if you are holding the stick. When changing the handle I tape these blind and put a table light switch on the power cable so that I can switch it off when I'm not flying.

Now why would you go through all this trouble when you can go down the local shop and buy a $25 stick with guarantee?

Well on the 777 IL2 Battle of Stalingrad forum they had some pictures of the BOS/ROF development team. Here is one :

Image

Now what is that on the desk and on the shelf behind.

I wonder why the FF2 works well in ROF?
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#56 hq_Jorri

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:25

Thanks for the write up :) It's nice to see these modded versions.
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#57 diomedesbc

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 02:33

Man I have to get one! Might just take the risk and order a used one off Amazon
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#58 hq_Jorri

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:45

Bacardi, how are you liking yours?
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#59 aguillon

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:30

Just got my FFB2 off Amazon actually (49.90 USD), grey trigger version hand - second . In good shape, all buttons and hats work perfectly. I am not a huge fan of plastic molded sticks as they get slippery when your hand sweats, but I guess I can always use tennis racquet grip tape if needed. The power cable was a US cable - I snipped off the plug and wired a UK plug on it (I live in Singapore). Stick takes 110-240v so no issues on voltage. Tested it using the force feedback test program and indeed it does kick around a fait bit!

All I need now is to pair it up with my newly-received CH Throttle Quadrant (studying the art of mixture/propeller pitch/throttle, something I never did before in sims - brilliant) and, jewels of jewels, my brand new CH Multi Function Panel (that one was an impulse buy - I want to do a 25 or maybe 50 button panel purely for RoF). My old CH game port rudder pedals have been revived thanks to a USB to game port adapter (almost 20 years and still going strong!), and the cherry on the cake is my TrackIR 5, which will shortly come out of its box to join the whole setup. I assume I should be all set for the perfect experience in RoF. I am still short of the 3 monitor setup, but with a baby on the way it's best not to be too ambitious…

I must thank all of you who have recommended the stick on this forum: it is an ugly heavy beast for sure, but incredibly fun to use and does add a lot to the flying experience. If you manage to get your hands on one, you will not be disappointed.
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#60 Spag

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:42

Hello aquillon,
So where abouts is a ForceFeedback Test program?
Cheers,
Spag. :)
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Bite off more than you can chew.

Then chew like Hell ! ! !


#61 langers1066

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 16:09

Just ordered my MS FFB2 off of ebay. Fingers crossed! I would also like a FF test program, one that works with windows 8 would be great. Cheers!
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#62 TX-EcoDragon

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 18:29

In RoF settings I just set the forces slider to 100% (higher forces would be nice - I know the stick can do more), and the Shaking slider to 55%.


As far as an FFB test/edit app, I've used this in the past with IL-2 CLoD:
http://airwarfare.co...edback/41-fedit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://airwarfare.co...w/index.php/dow … k/41-fedit
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#63 aguillon

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:06

Hello aquillon,
So where abouts is a ForceFeedback Test program?
Cheers,
Spag. :)

I used the force test program which can be found here:

http://www.fs-force.com/support.htm#ForceTest

Hope this helps.
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#64 Dutch2

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:08

Hello aquillon,
So where abouts is a ForceFeedback Test program?
Cheers,
Spag. :)

I used the force test program which can be found here:

http://www.fs-force.com/support.htm#ForceTest

Hope this helps.
But is this not payware and the one in the other post freeware. ;)
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#65 Spag

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:24

Hello aquillon,
So where abouts is a ForceFeedback Test program?
Cheers,
Spag. :)

I used the force test program which can be found here:

http://www.fs-force.com/support.htm#ForceTest

Hope this helps.

It has helped a lot.
Thankyou.
It is always good to know that what you buy second hand is working correctly.
Cheers,
Spag. :)
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Bite off more than you can chew.

Then chew like Hell ! ! !


#66 aguillon

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:33

Hello aquillon,
So where abouts is a ForceFeedback Test program?
Cheers,
Spag. :)

I used the force test program which can be found here:

http://www.fs-force.com/support.htm#ForceTest

Hope this helps.

It has helped a lot.
Thankyou.
It is always good to know that what you buy second hand is working correctly.
Cheers,
Spag. :)

No worries - glad to be of service.

@Dutch2: I don't think it's payware - I used it a couple of times, it's a stand-alone exe and doesn't seem to have any provisions to ask for money. But then again maybe after a certain period of time it does? Anyway it served my purpose which was to make sure my newly purchased FFB2 wasn't a large paperweight; doubt I'll use it again unless something is wrong with the stick… :D
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#67 TX-EcoDragon

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 16:00

Yes, FS-Force is payware, and designed for Microsoft Flight Sim/Prepar3D usage. It deals witha peculiar implementation of FFB that causes forces to be reversed. (Strange that Microsoft can make this awesome stick, but can't get it to work in their very own flight sim).
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#68 hq_Jorri

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:22

Really? Quax had the problem that stick forces were reversed for him. Could his be related?
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#69 aguillon

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:37

Yes, FS-Force is payware, and designed for Microsoft Flight Sim/Prepar3D usage. It deals witha peculiar implementation of FFB that causes forces to be reversed. (Strange that Microsoft can make this awesome stick, but can't get it to work in their very own flight sim).

I see what you mean. Indeed the FS-Force add-on to MFS is payware, but I guarantee you that the little Force Feedback Test utility - which I pointed to - is not.
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#70 theMoxy

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:37

i had the FF 1 - it was spectacular!! still wouldve been actually if mutha fukkin' MS hadn't made it obsolete for no good reason other than profit margins. I can only imagine the FF2 should be the cat's balls as well, or more so! the twist rudder action is really effective
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#71 arthursmedley

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:19

i had the FF 1 - it was spectacular!! still wouldve been actually if mutha fukkin' MS hadn't made it obsolete for no good reason other than profit margins. I can only imagine the FF2 should be the cat's balls as well, or more so! the twist rudder action is really effective

They were forced to stop making it because they had infringed someone else's copyright.
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#72 thedudeWG

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:46

As promised, here is a link to details of my center-mount MSFFB2 joystick/rudder stand:

Center mounted stick and rudder pedal unit

Attached File  IMG_0348S.jpg   170.8KB   249 downloads
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#73 ClickyGamer

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:09

Hello,

Seems to be holding in there and I think all is working well. I havent yet flown a great deal but have done a few missions. The program I used to test it is called ForceTest and its a standalone software thats free.

It test:

Spring Center
Constant Force
Periodic Force
Friction
Damping
Grooves

All in various degrees of strength and frequency. Thanks all for replies.

- Ace
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#74 3DDevil

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 15:51

Hey The Dude… that thing you made looks interesting. Any chance of more PICS with the joystick and rudder pedals in place…?? Just trying to work out where you put things?
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#75 daveb123

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 22:20

i have a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2…had it since it came out…these things are indestructible and work in any game!…The only thing i have had to do with mine is change some of the micro switches on the buttons due to wear and tear..any old mouse will do..using a solder iron its a 10 min job!
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#76 thedudeWG

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 23:05

3DDevil,
Did you click the link?

>>>>>> Center mounted stick and rudder pedal unit <<<<<

Note: But I could upload some new pics if you need, just let me know …
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#77 J2_Trupobaw

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:41

Dude, you can link to your old images in new post without uploading it again.

Image

Image

And check your thread ;)

Image
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#78 pistol12

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 16:49

July 25, 2016               MFFB2 JOYSTICK SHAKE 'JUDDER' VIBRATION ON GROUND AND/OR INFLIGHT....

 

Problem:  I love my two E-bay purchased MFFB2 joysticks, but both have the same problem:  Joystick 'judder' shaking (on ground and in the air) about 60% of the time; when starting new flight or mission and many times while in flight, the joystick judder or shake will start up and remain constant.  Have to inflight reset the FFB from whatever I had it at (anywhere from 100% to 60%) and I do not use the Shake mode at all.  Can be sitting in the chocks/on ground and that's when I can feel it sometimes.  Select/deselect FFB and percentages while in flight to get it smoothed out.  Tiresome to do, but when it works, it works really great!

 

Does anyone else use the software that may have come with the stick?  Should i try NOT loading the software?

 

Before starting up ROF, I power up the joystick, then insert the USB into a port (both USB 2.0 and 3.0 -- doesn't matter).

 

Hard to believe that both MFFB2 sticks would be bad - pretty sure that's not it since both are 'new' used and in perfect condition.

 

Have new Lenovo computer Windows 10 and ROF works great! 

 

There has been a good discussion here about using it with Windows 7 and XP compatibility so I will try those again.

 

Anyone else have this problem and found a solution?

 

Thanks in advance guys and will see you all on the rof servers.

 

P


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#79 J5_Klugermann

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 15:03

I have no problems with mine. Original software is probably out of date. USB recognized device and installed drives online.

 

I always have some degree stick shaking on takeoffs and landings depending on terrain. Shouldn't continue in flight. Screen shake is option for non FF sticks to warn for impending stall.


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