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Did I get screwed? - Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2


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#1 ClickyGamer

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:34

Hello All,

I have read several various threads about the dependability and overall awesomeness of the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 Joystick so I bought one on Amazon. I will be getting it tommorrow and have a couple questions that I hope someone can help me with.

1. Is this the same joystick that I have heard all the great reviews about?

2. How can I test it to make sure it functions 100% before its too late to send it back?

The one I bought is HERE
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#2 hq_Jorri

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:38

That looks to be the right stick, the version with the red trigger (dont know if that matters).

Its a plug and play stick so it should work out of the box for you. Remember that there should be a power cable. If not you can get one at your electronics store.

My advice is to try it in RoF straightaway.

I dont know what you payed but if it works well you should be a happy man! Remember though it will always be subjective, it could still dissapoint, not everyone likes he same thing in a stick.
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#3 HotTom

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:50

"I will be getting it tomorrow" and now I'm worried. :o

Buyer's remorse! "Future fretting!" We all get it.

Wait until it arrives. Try it out. Chances are you will be really happy with it. But. Just in case….If you're not happy with it, Jorri, who is that joystick's main spokesman and loudest drum-beater on this forum, will gladly refund your money. :mrgreen:
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#4 ClickyGamer

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:59

Thanks for the quick response, I will definately be testing it out as much as possible. I paid $52.49 shipped to my house for the Joystick.

The reason I brought this up is because like You I noticed in the last picture it does NOT have the red trigger although the other pictures show the red trigger. I hope someone can clarify if this is important or not.

Also in the last picture I see a cord bundle top right, I hope this is the power cord. Is it a power cord or a power brick with a cord?

Thanks Again!
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#5 hq_Jorri

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:04

Just a chord.

HT I might be the most loudmouthed user of the stick, but dont be mistaken, we are legion ;)

Join us Bacardi, it wont hurt! Muhhahahaha…
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#6 ClickyGamer

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:08

Lol nice, I will join any squadron who is helpful and considerate of a newbie. If that is a genuine invite let me know your squads website or any info I need about you guys. I will fly with anyone whom is good a person. :)
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#7 Waldo.Pepper

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:10

I had one. It was all scratched up and one of the buttons was a little sticky so I binned it.
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#8 ClickyGamer

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:11

Lol Waldo are you just saying that to get a response from Jorri? You cant be serious that you would bin this joystick because of a few scratches and a sticky button!
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#9 hq_Jorri

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:39

Sorry Bacardi I was being sarcastic, join us MSFFB users I meant. the hq squad isnt exactly active any more. Im sure you will find a good squad though, go online and see who you can hook up with or post a requet here on the forums.

And dont mind Waldo. He told me it was a perfectly good stick, but he had to go on holiday and didnt want to take it along, so he put it in a bag with a load of bricks and threw it in the pond.
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#10 Waldo.Pepper

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:46

Lol Waldo are you just saying that to get a response from Jorri? You cant be serious that you would bin this joystick because of a few scratches and a sticky button!

Well - they were pretty big scratches.
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#11 ClickyGamer

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:22

Lol you two are awesome!

Waldo did you get those scratches from beating a drum as well? and I dont wanna know why it was sticky. :)

- Ace
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#12 Der.Mo

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:23

Err..why is it important to have the red Trigger??,?
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#13 hq_Jorri

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 13:04

I dont really know what the difference between the two versions is. I think they are both fine.
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#14 ChiefRedCloud

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 13:22

Insure you activate the Force Feedback in the OPTIONS too when you hook it up. My FF is gone from mine.
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#15 Relix

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 15:04

Mine has a grey button and works perfectly. I am starting to worry about getting a scratch on it though as I quite like it
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#16 HotTom

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 17:24

Just a chord.

HT I might be the most loudmouthed user of the stick, but dont be mistaken, we are legion ;)

Well, as you know, I consider FFB essential for RoF. You can get by without it in sims of more modern planes with stall horns but you really can't fly the edge of the envelope in RoF without that shaking stick to warn you of an impending stall.

You may (or may not) have noticed that the MS Sidewinder Force Feedback is what I've been recommending to folks these days. I prefer the Logitech G940 but since it went out of production the prices being asked for them are absurd.

The MSFFB is just about the only FFB stick that is affordable for most folks and they were built well enough that buying a used one isn't all that much of a gamble.

Anyway, I was both amused by and sympathetic toward the OP. I have purchased much of my collection of old guns over the internet. Usually you get sellers who under-describe the gun and it arrives even better than you expected. But sometimes you end up with a piece of junk.

So, yeah, I've sat here for days after a purchase waiting for it to arrive by wringing my hands and wondering: "What have I done???" :mrgreen:

Hopefully we'll get a cheerful report soon. :S!:
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#17 hq_Jorri

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 17:35

Hopefully we'll get a cheerful report soon. :S!:

Well genuinely I would feel rather guilty if we didn't :D
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#18 Dutch2

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 17:40

I dont really know what the difference between the two versions is. I think they are both fine.
Thanks to a reply on my sticky JS: The red one does have a rubber coating which is nice for the grip, but after 20y it will become sticky.
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#19 ClickyGamer

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 18:26

so maybe I wont want the red coated one after all if they are identical besides color (thats what I am hoping for) I dont really care what color it is but I can think of other products that look identical (or 1 think different like a red trigger :) but 1 product is awesome while the other is a piece of crap. So I am crossing my fingers :)
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#20 ClickyGamer

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 21:55

Just got the Joystick and its in visibly good condition. It is the all gray (no red) trigger/button combo. Wish I knew the reasoning behind this. Hopefully its nothing major.

The "Bad"

There is a bit of white paint on the usb cord and a few very minor splats on the joystick base. Nothing I cant clean up.

No power cord to feed the motors so going to have to find one that works/fits with the right voltage etc. to test the motors. I hope this wasnt left out intentionally. Anyone know the proper voltage/amps etc.?

Will leave further post as my testing progress continues. (If anyone actually cares lol :)

Thanks for the replies thus far.
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#21 hq_Jorri

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 22:16

Sounds good! I wouldn't worry about the version you got, although I am very surprised that it is different from the pictures in the ad.

Very very stupid that you didnt get a power chord. The chord is a very common one, though:

Image

That's one with a European plug. Just find a corresponding one in your local electronics store, I am sure voltage doesn't matter as there is no adapter involved (it must be in the stick?)
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#22 TX-EcoDragon

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 22:30

There is no problem with the silver trigger model. The red one is slightly newer revision that includes a rubberized handle, but given the age of these sticks, the rubber is often in poor shape, peeling off and leaving a sticky residue. The silver trigger model uses a plastic handle, so this problem isn't there. Beyond the cosmetic changes and the rubberized handle, there's no tangible difference.

The power cord is an easy purchase - there's no power brick to worry about. It's the same cord as is used on Nikon DSLR camera chargers. I've used this one, though it's a bit too short. The original Nikon cord is longer. http://www.amazon.co...Cord Nikon D300" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co...wer-Nikon-D300S … Nikon+D300

It's strange that they wouldn't include it. You might be able to get a credit from the seller towards a cord purchase if they didn't list that the cord was missing.
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#23 ClickyGamer

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:05

Ok everyone I found a cord that will work (a playstation 2 cord that I trimmed to fit) and ffb seems to be working, not as dramatic as I thought though, however I would like to know if there is a free program or something that will test my joystick's force feedback levels. Im sorry for the several post about this joystick issues but I paid a good amount of money for this joystick and its used. I have already had to fandangle a powercord and would just love to know 100% if all parts of this joystick work as they should before its too late to return it and its too late to leave some feedback.

Im rather new to ffb except in my microsoft steering wheel on my xbox 360 but thats a different type of forcefeedback compared to a joystick and flying.

So any way to test and possibly tweak the level/efficiency of my joysticks ffb?

- Thanks!!
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#24 Waldo.Pepper

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:12

I'm just glad there are no scratches.



Try this… no idea if it is worth your time.

http://www.ehow.com/...e-feedback.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ehow.com/...7958598_do-test … dback.html
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#25 hq_Jorri

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:19

Not sure how good that link is, they are talking about vibration feedback there…

Just try it in RoF. And remember: there is no ff. on the ground when the engine is off, and there are two sensors in the back of the grip that turn off ffb when you dont cover either of them (you have to gripthe stick for the ffb to work)
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#26 Spag

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:53

Don't forget to turn your FFB up to 100% 'Options - Input' then slide to 100%.
There is a box to tick to enable FFB as well, but seeing as you reckon it is working it is probably already ticked.
Also the amount of force depends a lot on what you are doing with the plane.
But there should be a lot of force on takeoff. Mine will actually jump on the desk if not held firmly.

Cheers,
Spag. :)
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Bite off more than you can chew.

Then chew like Hell ! ! !


#27 ClickyGamer

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:11

Nice I think this stick might be a keeper. (Although gonna do a bit more testing now that I read your "jump on the desk reply to make sure I dont have a weak one.) Thanks to all who posted. Here is the program I found to test for future reference if anyone needs it.

http://www.fs-force.com/support.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fs-force.com/support.htm (ForceTest) *From the link Waldo gave Me.

Also since I am running Win 7 Ultimate it installed and configured the driver automatically.

The main reason I worried about this is because during my quick mission run to test this stick sometimes during a bank the ffb would either skip (like a gear slipping feeling) or would just dead stick (no resistance at all) and I thought maybe a weak motor or slippage.

God I cant wait to start learning how to fly these planes (instead of just regular jets I am used too) but I have my daughter this weekend (alternating weekends) so will really need to concentrate more on her.

** To top it off I have a Samsung Electronics 840 Pro Series Solid State Drive coming today (Friday) and wont be able to mess with that much either since my Girl will be here wanting to use Dad's Computer. (She has her own but "Dad's is cooler and faster" Lol.

*** Again thanks so much for all who replied and restored a bit of my faith in humanity lol!

See Ya in the Sky's,

- Ace

P.S. Im on your Six!
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#28 hq_Jorri

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:14

Again, that's the vibration! They are different forces and different settings. The stick vibrates when handling the plane on the ground and when firing the guns, and the force of the vibration is a seperate slider in the settings. The real force feedback is the pressure you feel when moving the stick. If it works correctly, you should for example feel the force go down especially on the ailerons when your plane is stalling.

Also, when youre on the ground with the engine off, there should be no forces (if there are, the FFB setting is probably turned off). When you then turn the engine on, you should feel a little bit of force on the elevator (because of the airstream from the prop), and still nothing on the ailerons until you get up to speed.

Edit: as for the stick slipping or going dead on you, that could be a huge problem by the sounds of it….but my guess is it is related to the sensors in the stick, maybe your hand did not cover them properly? Make sure you keep the stick gripped the whole time.

Some people have taped off the sensors. That does cause additional wear on the stick, though, because the FFB motors will constantly be enabled.
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#29 hoots2

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:18

Good choices there Bacardi, you are so right in lavishing time on your daughter, it's the best gift we can give our children :)
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#30 ClickyGamer

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:36

Thanks hoots2 your soo right. I will keep everyone posted after I do a few more test. If I forget to tell you all then you will know for sure if I kept it when I start shooting off your wings ;) Lol.

- Ace
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#31 Spag

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:49

Again, that's the vibration! They are different forces and different settings. The stick vibrates when handling the plane on the ground and when firing the guns, and the force of the vibration is a seperate slider in the settings. The real force feedback is the pressure you feel when moving the stick. If it works correctly, you should for example feel the force go down especially on the ailerons when your plane is stalling.

Also, when youre on the ground with the engine off, there should be no forces (if there are, the FFB setting is probably turned off). When you then turn the engine on, you should feel a little bit of force on the elevator (because of the airstream from the prop), and still nothing on the ailerons until you get up to speed.

Edit: as for the stick slipping or going dead on you, that could be a huge problem by the sounds of it….but my guess is it is related to the sensors in the stick, maybe your hand did not cover them properly? Make sure you keep the stick gripped the whole time.

Some people have taped off the sensors. That does cause additional wear on the stick, though, because the FFB motors will constantly be enabled.

Hello hq_Jorri,

I have a 'grey' MFFB2 and I am damned if I can see any little sensors.
Are you able to elaborate on where they are and what they look like?

Cheers,
Spag. :)
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Bite off more than you can chew.

Then chew like Hell ! ! !


#32 hq_Jorri

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:53

Back of the stick, two little holes in the plastic! Maybe 1mm small…..there is a light sensor behind them.
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#33 Spag

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:10

Back of the stick, two little holes in the plastic! Maybe 1mm small…..there is a light sensor behind them.

Well, that took some working out. The two little light sensors acutually work on the vertical.
I was looking for a hole that was covered by the hand, not interupted by the hand.
The sensors are at the top and bottom of the handle.
You live and learn (the meaning of life).

Thanks hq_Jorri, much appreciated.

Cheers,
Spag. :)
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Bite off more than you can chew.

Then chew like Hell ! ! !


#34 Immortal_PP

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 15:31

Don't worry about the red trigger, mine does not have it and it is a good stick, won't trade for any other and nowadays finding something with force feedback at a decent price is impossible it seems.
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#35 hq_Jorri

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 15:44

Hi Poeppies, nice to welcome another MSFFB2 user to the forums :D
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#36 gavagai

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 16:59

No power cord? Give that seller a 1-star rating. I am so tired of unscrupulous online sellers.
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#37 thedudeWG

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 14:35

Interesting note about the light sensors. I hate the dead stick in-flight and always wanted to find a way around that. I always thought it worked on resistance from the user …

I need a favor from one of you lads. I'm building a stand for my FFB2 stick, and I can't find any dimensions for the base online. My gear is in storage until June (while I move), so I'm trying to get as much finished before then. Could someone measure the depth and width of the base for me? Nothing too exact, and MM or inches is fine. Thanks!

Edit: I'll make a seperate thread with the results of my labors once I'm finished, but here is a link where I gained most of my information/inspiration (for those who may be interested):
http://www.youtube.c...A53AC36BB4ACC1A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.c...A53AC36BB4ACC1A
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#38 der_zahn

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 14:40

Ten inches side to side, nine inches front to back.
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#39 thedudeWG

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 14:42

Ten inches side to side, nine inches front to back.

Damn that was fast! Cheers!!! :S!:
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#40 Dooga

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  • Posts: 422

Posted 08 May 2013 - 18:16

Man… one of the remaining new stick costs 500 bucks… comparing that with the underwhelming impact Microsofts recent efforts at Windows have had, it might be a good idea for them to stick to what they always did well, pc periphery hardware! ;-)

Got my used one for under 30€ on ebay; a bargain I would say. On a more serious note though - assuming that one day the sources for MSFFB2s will run dry - what to get then? Anything out there with the same feature set? I don't care for those gazillion-button jet control sticks, and the one that I'd like on general principles (Flichtstick Pro CH) does not do Force Feedback…
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