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New campaign tool: Career Mission Generator


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#1 Lemml

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:57

I have started developing a new 3rd party campaign tool for Rise of Flight. Although it's still at an early stage I would like to share the current development version with you:




It is already possible to play a full WW1 pilot career from December 1915 to November 1918.

The missions are currently all instant action dogfights. There are no other mission types yet.

Version 0.2.0 and later supports aces with historical skins.
Version 0.3.0 and later supports historical squadrons and squadron transfer invitations for the human player.

There are no ranks, medals or news yet.

Please share your impressions, tell me what you dislike, what could be better and which features you would expect in the next step.

Further on, I'm looking for more historical data for integration to increase realism (XML, CSV or similar data files).
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#2 Rover_27

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:18

Hi. Very interesting! Downloaded but cannot locate RoF directory even after tweaking the INI.
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#3 Lemml

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:36

Could you paste your .ini please? Have you tried it with a slash at the directory ending or without a slash?
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#4 Dutch2

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:43

what is this tool doing, just generate separate missions?? Could you explain more
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#5 Rover_27

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:48

Thanks, I've tried a lot of options already. Here's my INI.

Attached Files


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#6 Lemml

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:03

@Rover_27:

Remove the '#' at the start of the line. Lines starting with a '#' are comment lines which are ignored.

So instead of

#rof.directory=D:\Stuff\777\Rise of Flight
it should read:

rof.directory=D:\Stuff\777\Rise of Flight
Sorry, I should have explained that.
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#7 Lemml

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:08

what is this tool doing, just generate separate missions?? Could you explain more

You play a pilot in a squadron. All pilots in the squadron have currently random names (hopefully later replaced by historical data). The AI pilots have internal values for potential, experience and so on.

When you start a mission you always fly together with some other pilots of your squadron. When other pilots get killed they are replaced by new ones without any experience. If they survive or collect shot-downs, they gain experience.

Depending on the internal values the AI pilot's skill is set for the generated mission you play.

All other squadrons are simulated the same way. So you always fly against other AI squadrons.

The tool simulates the date progress from the war and the planes that are used in the time-period you are currently in. Other squadron clashes are simulated as well. There is a chalkboard where the number of shot-downs of the best (simulated) pilots are listed.

If you keep the other AI pilots in your squadron alive, they get better over the time.

The tool generates missions for Rise of Flight. You keep the tool open while you play the mission file in Rise of Flight. If you have finished the mission you switch back (Alt-Tab) to the Career Mission Generator tool and it reads the log files that were produced by Rise of Flight and generates the mission report.
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#8 Rover_27

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:13

Ok, now it's working. I'll let you know what I think about it later. Thanks)
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#9 Jason_Williams

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 16:15

Lemml is interested in making a tool that users like so if you have suggestions please let him know. He is a legit programmer in real life and is interested in making ROF more interesting for you guys.

The more talented guys we have working on stuff the better for everyone!

Jason
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#10 Trooper117

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 16:31

:) Will give it a go!
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#11 Jason_Williams

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 19:35

I made this a Global to give it some more exposure. I'll leave it up there for a bit so people can become aware.

Jason
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#12 Lemml

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 19:39

Thank you, Jason!
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#13 Lemml

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 19:57

To all who have taken a look at it:

Please post me your impressions. Tell me if the current approach is useful or not. I'm still at a stage where I can modify the tool into every possible direction.

Furthermore, I would like to find out what is important to you for the next version. I would like to collect feature wishes for it.

Please also tell me what you dislike in the current approach. Feel free to criticise everything. Without your critism I can't develop a good tool.

What is also interesting for me: Do you prefer to play entire versions from start to landing or do you prefer instant action missions? Or do you like to see a mix of both where you can choose between both?
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#14 Dooga

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 20:24

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm always happy to have options and see people put love into things that I like as well.

But: how would you characterize your tool compared to PWCG? What do you plan to do differently?
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#15 Joker_BR

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 20:34

Hi Lemml,

Some suggestions (and reasons) :)
-Verify the log=1 only at the mission start instead of program start, allowing ppl to just enter the tool and fiddle with settings without having to edit/re-edit .ini settings by hand (otherwise, implement it into the tool, silently).
-IMHO, the tool should adjust .ini accordingly when starting ROF, restoring it at the end of the game (if needed, i.e., it was log=0 at the start). This is useful to allow ppl to play normal or multiplayer games without crowding the disk with hundreds of log files when not flying PWCG or CMCG.
-Include an option to delete/clean logs before or after playing (in essence, the tool should keep the game "untouched" as far as possible, making/using resources only when active).
-Missions: I think it would be great to have a check to allow instant or full missions. I'm more inclined to do full missions, but sometimes a quick fix is all that we can do with the sparse time :) .

Great tool!
Thanks
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#16 Lemml

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 21:22

But: how would you characterize your tool compared to PWCG? What do you plan to do differently?

My original idea was to have a tool for quick action. To be able to play an entire war on one weekend or one day if you want. That was something I was missing in PWCG. Even if you start in the air, there was always lots of flying and waiting.

I have also a few ideas about strategic dynamic missions in my mind. Maybe to simulate the Western front in real-time with all planes flying their missions and whenever you want you can start your own plane or you get assigned to a mission. Your own flight gets simulated as well, but you can jump into the Rise of Flight simulation whenever you want. If you finish playing, the information is processed by the tool and it continues simulating the Western front. But it does not make sense to implement them as long as there is no historical data. Nevertheless, that's a long-term idea. Not yet a feature for the next version.

I could also imagine options for decisions. For example that you are asked if you want to lead your own squadron. And then you could get "secondary goals", for example to protect the life of your young inexperienced pilots.

Another idea is to have different dynamics and possibilities to influence the history line in a very small amount. Of course only in a very small amount - because everything else would be unrealistic.

For the next stage I'm thinking about adding some more mission types and some historical data, for example at least real pilot names with their real skills and squadrons.

If you get killed in the Career Mission Generator you will continue as a new pilot in the squadron where your previous pilot has been. So you can always continue your save-game regardless what's happening.

Nevertheless, PWCG is a great tool that I enjoy very much. The Career Mission Generator shall not compete with the current beta campaign of Rise of Flight or the fantastic PWCG. It is meant to add more variety for a different playing style.
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#17 Lemml

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 21:25

-IMHO, the tool should adjust .ini accordingly when starting ROF, restoring it at the end of the game (if needed, i.e., it was log=0 at the start). This is useful to allow ppl to play normal or multiplayer games without crowding the disk with hundreds of log files when not flying PWCG or CMCG.

Making an automatical backup of the .ini and restoring the original file afterwards is a good idea. I didn't think about that.

Thanks for your ideas (also the other ones!)
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#18 Joker_BR

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 21:48

I'm enjoying your fast mission generator very much, Lemml. :)
At the moment I prefer it to the quick mission generator, because I can have a "campaign in a box" and it is all very fast paced.
One thing I noticed though, is that the maps aren't populated when flying CMCG, i.e., there's no airfields of cities (only the shadows or landmarks, but not buildings at all). Dunno if this has someting to do with your tool or not.
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#19 Lemml

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 21:58

One thing I noticed though, is that the maps aren't populated when flying CMCG, i.e., there's no airfields of cities (only the shadows or landmarks, but not buildings at all). Dunno if this has someting to do with your tool or not.

Yes, that has to do with my tool. That's not implemented yet. Glad that you like it anyway. :)
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#20 catobird

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 22:07

Hi Lemmel

What you are proposing is exactly what I have been wanting for a long time. Even PWCG, with an air start, has a lot of idle flying.

I am a dogfight type player so I like the ""instant dog fight with a career"" idea. It reminds me of the original Red Baron.

I have not downloaded yet but will provide more feedback later.

John
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#21 Joker_BR

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 23:30

It reminds me of the original Red Baron.
Indeed! :)
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#22 Hellshade

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 00:26

This is fabulous sir. I like PWCG very much too but most of the time I don't feel like flying around for however long to see if I might run into an enemy flight. I like to get right into the dogfighting and this lets me do that. Please keep working on it as I am sure there are many others who will enjoy it as I do.

Suggestions
- Eventually get a GUI integration so players don't have to tab back and forth, if that is possible.
- The ground below seems to tile itself in for some reason. Not sure why that might be.
- Randomize the weather
- Randomize timeof day
- Randomize mix of aircraft for EA
- Enemy Aircraft scouts escorting 2 seaters that player needs to fight their way through

Thank you again for developing this. It's got that "Just one more mission." kind of addiction, which is great.

Cheers!
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#23 Panthercules

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:19

You play a pilot in a squadron. All pilots in the squadron have currently random names (hopefully later replaced by historical data).

I have amassed a spreadsheet with almost all of the historical skins available in RoF that are used on the maps we have, with associated historical unit, date, and pilot information, in connection with populating the beta career mode with historical pilots and skins. I think you might find it useful for incorporating historical skins/pilots into your tool.

I've posted here an example row from the spreadsheet, to give you an idea of the data available:

http://www.mediafire...t_for_Lemml.zip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mediafire.../file/pmo1l81t5 … _Lemml.zip

I'm still in the process of updating the spreadsheet (it got out of whack in the rush to get ready for the 1.030 release), so it's not quite ready to share at this point. But I could go ahead and export a portion of it into a .csv file or something if you wanted to have some representative data to play around with while you build your tool.

Feel free to PM me if you think you're interested in any of this info.
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#24 J2_Wallenberg

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:11

Lemml, do you by chance remember or know UberDemon's ÜberQuick Mission Generator for Il-2?

This was the Swiss Knife of everyone who wanted to play various scenarios quickly, and use a generated mission in single player, multiplayer dogfight mode or coop mode.

If you ever manage to recreate the handiness and sheer abundance of possibilities of this tool, you'll become one of the higher gods of the community.

For those who didn't know this:
It was an external program for Il-2 that could generate missions with an interface looking like the Quick Mission generator interface but with much more options. Funny thing was that you didn't have to go through all those - it took default values for many things. And for every flight you could choose a mission and voilà - the target would be spawned ready. Air starts with instant dogfight were as easy to create as ground starts with waypoints.
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#25 ClipWing

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:27

Agreed J2_Wallenberg. UberDemon's Generator was Superb. Hope Lemmi knows about it, or can get a look at it for further ideas.
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#26 Dutch2

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:49

Layout is indeed very primitive, seems I'm the only one that used to fly France/British, but when selecting Br I get Fr and when selecting Fr I get Br. :roll:

I always fly the maps and I notice the Icons when scrolling the map to see the details or overview they get useless.

Further I would like to see that this program could be used for import all those campaign missions like flying fury or spiders web. Any chance to do that :?:

Miss starting and landing from airstrip :(

Thanks for sharing this, could be a good alternative for the [beta] career!!
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#27 Lemml

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:09

but when selecting Br I get Fr and when selecting Fr I get Br. :roll:

What exactly is happening in that case? Are you in a squadron of French pilots if you choose British?
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#28 Lemml

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:14

I've posted here an example row from the spreadsheet, to give you an idea of the data available:

That would definitely helpful.

Helpful as well could be: The squadron the pilot was flying for, the default skin of his squadron and the number of shotdowns.

But that information could also come from other data sources.
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#29 Dooga

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:29

Lemml, thank you for the elaborate answer! I'll give it a try, then :)

I can see both sides - I like PWCG missions because they feel 'real' - you to on a patrol, you know that there's probably enemies around somewhere, but you've no idea where; so you keep your eyes open…
But also a lot of times I only have a little time for playing, so something more action-focussed would be welcome.

One idea: a dynamic coop MP feature might be nice - so I play along a campaign in your tool, and one evening a friend decides he's also got time and would join me; so I select the next mission to be MP for X players, and my friend can drop in and fly along with me. Remainder of the flight could be filled in with AI pilots. Next day when I'm alone again, I go back to one player and continue the campaign on my own…
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#30 Dutch2

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:00

Layout is indeed very primitive, seems I'm the only one that used to fly France/British, but when selecting Br I get Fr and when selecting Fr I get Br. :roll:

I always fly the maps and I notice the Icons when scrolling the map to see the details or overview they get useless.

Further I would like to see that this program could be used for import all those campaign missions like flying fury or spiders web. Any chance to do that :?:

Miss starting and landing from airstrip :(

Thanks for sharing this, could be a good alternative for the [beta] career!!


Simple select a Britsh tab, now look and your a France pilot, the function of Br and Fr tab are changed!!
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#31 Lemml

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:29

Simple select a Britsh tab, now look and your a France pilot, the function of Br and Fr tab are changed!!

Indeed. Sorry, I thought I already have fixed that in the version I uploaded. I will fix it in the next update.
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#32 Lemml

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:43

If someone has historical data as xml, csv and whatever I can use for integration (for example manually typed in, no copyright on it), please send it to me.

Useful are squadron information, pilots lists, skins lists. I'll look everything through and check what I can use.

Btw does anyone have numbers how many pilots (scouts) and squadrons were active on the Western front during the war periods? Estimations are helpful, too.
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#33 Panthercules

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 15:39

I've posted here an example row from the spreadsheet, to give you an idea of the data available:

That would definitely helpful.

Helpful as well could be: The squadron the pilot was flying for, the default skin of his squadron and the number of shotdowns.

But that information could also come from other data sources.


The spreadsheet has the squadron each pilot was flying with and during what time periods, as well as the default skins the unit was using during each relevant time period (to the extent that they had their own unit markings and we have the relevant skins in the game - otherwise, they just use the generic default skins in the game). I do not have the specific number of victories for each pilot in the spreadsheet, but there is an indicator of relative AI skill level based on whether or not the pilot had 5 or more kills.

I'm still plowing through the career cfg files to true up my spreadsheet, and it will be a while longer before it's ready, but I could export a portion of it just to give you a sample to work with while you're creating your tool.
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#34 Mogster

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 20:14

An instant action career does sound interesting, not everyone wants, or has the time to, play missions with historical flight times.
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#35 tvrtko

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 08:20

Interesting program, because from time to
time we all need some quick fighting. Also,
more variety is always good for community.

Lemml, do you by chance remember or know UberDemon's ÜberQuick Mission Generator for Il-2?
This was the Swiss Knife of everyone who wanted…
Sadly, UberDemon's site is down.
Has anyone some another (download)
link cuz I'm really into this good old sim ?

Thanks :S!:
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#36 s8n333x2

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 11:25

Good to see fans of this sim that know tech getting ibto making the best sim available. Now my wish is that all fans that know tech get in there and make this the best sim to date. The best days for this sim are ahead of us. ;)
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#37 stevetryagain

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 14:43

Thank you Lemml. Great concept.

I enjoy the instant action format of your tool and have the following suggestions:

1. Include a brief "Readme" in your download to help get one started. I wasn't sure what to do with the download when I opened the file to see what was in it. Although startup device is very intuitive, it's always nice to have some initial guidance in writing. Maybe also include that in your first post on this thread.

2. If possible it would be nice to have an option to include more available engagements within the same mission.

3. Would also like to have a selection of AC type to fly for the squadron the player is assigned to. Currently the plane selection seems to randomly change from mission to mission, especially for the British squadrons. Although having a random selection of planes is also fun, I think if possible, it would be nice to include a feature to just fly one type of plane. I realize one can now do this by turning off available aircraft in the configuration window, but then you may be flying a different airplane than the rest of your squadron on a mission.

4. It would be nice to have a airport nearby to land at mission complete as it can make the mission ending seem more "final". Even better would be to populate the airport with parked planes and cars and windsock.

5. If you do elect to go with a take off to landing type mission, then in keeping with the fast action concept I would suggest it be a close in low altitude intercept mission to avoid the long boring flight to battle.

6. Also fun would be very high altitude starts for missions flying aircraft with high altitude throttle (D7f/Pfalz DXII).

Your tool is fun and useful augmentation to the game. Thanks again :S!:
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#38 Lemml

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 16:18

I enjoy the instant action format of your tool and have the following suggestions: …

Thanks a lot, I think all of your suggestions make sense and I agree to them. I'll see what I can do.

6. Also fun would be very high altitude starts for missions flying aircraft with high altitude throttle (D7f/Pfalz DXII).

Your tool is fun and useful augmentation to the game. Thanks again :S!:

Yes, the mission altitudes were quite high at the end of the war. I should consider that. I'd need some values for the mission altitudes for all plane types for this.
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#39 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 18:08

Hi Lemml,

interesting approach. Can your mission generator be used for multiplayer purposes ? kind of mini campaign for starters ?
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#40 stevetryagain

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 18:21

Yes, the mission altitudes were quite high at the end of the war. I should consider that. I'd need some values for the mission altitudes for all plane types for this.

I don't know, but I've noticed missions starting just above 4000 meters when flying the Pfalz DXII in some of Pat Wilson's campaign missions, and would guess that missions starting anywhere above 3500 meters would be a fair representation of late war high altitude flying.

Also I was thinking that if you are able to spawn additional enemy flights to bounce a fight in progress that it would probably be more effective if they spawn at a lower altitude since all engagements eventually end up on the deck after a few turns.

Or, if there are more than one enemy flight at the start, then it would make sense to make the closest flight at or near the same altitude as the player and the second or third enemy flight at a lower altitude near the deck so that they would be in position to bounce or engage the players flight once the fight is taken low.

Along these lines, it would be nice to have a density selector like PWCG in order to increase or decrease the number of planes in a mission.
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