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Skill of A.I.


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#1 senoralec

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 20:02

I thought I saw somewhere a place to change the AI's skill level. Now I can't find it and these guys are flying rings around me. I'm just a middle aged gamer who likes flight sims. Never been in a real plane and can't perform an Immelman without stalling. The AI does it like they all have hundred of hours behind them and trained by Bloeke night and day. LOL. By the way, I'm talking about the career level. Is it only in campaign that you can change their skill? Or am I blind? (Or senile)

And on another topic, how do you "Boom and Zoom" a plane that can turn on a dime, like the AI all seem to do.

Also, (I'm starting to ramble here) I remember Red Baron II and how well the view system worked then. Does anyone know what's different here that makes it not as good?
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#2 Pirato

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 20:47

In the Career you can not change the AI difficulty,it's more or less random what AI level you may encounter. No worries,the AI behaves predictable just observe them for a while and see how they act. Usually they only turn until they ran out of Energy and end up at Treetop level. Then they go into a kind of "Safe Mode" and are easy prey.

Of course the AI is challenging at first,but after a while you get the Trick. Just in case ,here is a Link to a Mod compilation including a Mod that changes the AI and makes them less predictable and a bit harder eventually…http://riseofflight....p?f=278&t=22864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=278&t=22864

I know you didn't ask for even harder AI,but with time passing and getting better you may want to try the Mod.^^
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#3 Panthercules

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 21:48

Also, (I'm starting to ramble here) I remember Red Baron II and how well the view system worked then. Does anyone know what's different here that makes it not as good?

You don't say how you have set up your view mechanism, but I assume from your comment/question that you must not be using TIR (because RoF's support of TIR/6DoF is awesome). What method are you using for views, and exactly what about RoF's view system do you find troublesome? With some more details, some of the folks around here who don't use TIR may be able to give you some good suggestions for improving your viewing experience with RoF.
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#4 senoralec

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:32

In the Career you can not change the AI difficulty,it's more or less random what AI level you may encounter. No worries,the AI behaves predictable just observe them for a while and see how they act. Usually they only turn until they ran out of Energy and end up at Treetop level. Then they go into a kind of "Safe Mode" and are easy prey.

Of course the AI is challenging at first,but after a while you get the Trick. Just in case ,here is a Link to a Mod compilation including a Mod that changes the AI and makes them less predictable and a bit harder eventually…http://riseofflight....p?f=278&t=22864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=278&t=22864

I know you didn't ask for even harder AI,but with time passing and getting better you may want to try the Mod.^^

I'll try to explain my issues. First I don't have trackir. After spending money on the game and over 100 bucks on a joystick, I can't spend another 150. I looked on ebay for older ones and after doing a little investigating, it seems like a whole lot of work setting them up. I don't want to risk that on an ir2 or some hand made job.

I use padlock views when dogfighting and I just can't remember back to the days of Red Baron why it worked then and not now. Imagine, your sitting in the cockpit. Your view is seriously blocked by the fuselage and the upper wing. It's like viewing out of a halftrack. You have the opponent right in front of you, but all of a sudden he flips on his axis (flawless immelman) and is going underneath you in the opposite way. Which way does he turn? You can't see him tip his wings to initiate a turn, the fuselage is blocking your vision. If you padlock, you have no sense of spatial relationship between him and you. Are you flying straight? or up or down? There is no motion for you to sense a change. Your opponent is flipping, turning, doing all sorts of things only an acrobat can do, but there is no "seat of the pants" to tell you what you are doing.

I suppose a good, or experienced pilot would not have my problems, but once again, I didn't have this before and I'm not sure whats different for me to have it now.

I have a nice joystick with all sorts of buttons and hats (Saitek X52 Pro) so I'm thinking I might be able to make something work. Thats the purpose of the question. Can anyone help?

Thanks!
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#5 89

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:34

And on another topic, how do you "Boom and Zoom" a plane that can turn on a dime, like the AI all seem to do.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=UhYaRX8plzU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=cQWyrOSB6uw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=guVMVY2C6mM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=HmrTlW9m1VY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

:S!:

Oh, and AI do not make "flawless turns", unlike (say)IL2, ROF AI fly exactly the same physics as the human player. The thing that you should not do (especially against AI in more manoeuvrable planes) is follow them move for move trying to stick to their six. Aim to intercept their predicted path instead, and riddle them with 0.5-1 sec bursts when your paths cross.
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#6 Pirato

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:53

In addition to the Padlock view you can try to control the view by using the Mouse or the Hatswitches of your Joystick. And you can turn on the labels by pressing the i key. You will have to allow the Labels in the Settings though,where you can set the Pilot helpers like easy engine management and autorudder etc.
Note that the Labels may not be aviable on every Server when you plan on playing Multiplayer.
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Dann gibt's Heulen und Zähne klammern, für das ganze Lumpenpack.
Dann ist Schluss mit "Tischlein deck' dich", da gibt's "Knüppel aus dem Sack"!


#7 senoralec

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 17:32

And on another topic, how do you "Boom and Zoom" a plane that can turn on a dime, like the AI all seem to do.


Oh, and AI do not make "flawless turns", unlike (say)IL2, ROF AI fly exactly the same physics as the human player. The thing that you should not do (especially against AI in more manoeuvrable planes) is follow them move for move trying to stick to their six. Aim to intercept their predicted path instead, and riddle them with 0.5-1 sec bursts when your paths cross.


Maybe not "flawless", but it sure seems like they are all expert flyers. They handle energy a whole lot better than me and every plane I've flown against can turn tighter than me. I've been flying the N-11 and N-17 in late 1916. I'm not a real pilot, but been flying sims for a while so I think I'm at least average and I'm not even close to the skills AI seem to have. Also my CO is a jerk! I follow planes all the way to the ground and still don't get credit for it! ;)
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#8 89

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 18:36

And on another topic, how do you "Boom and Zoom" a plane that can turn on a dime, like the AI all seem to do.


Oh, and AI do not make "flawless turns", unlike (say)IL2, ROF AI fly exactly the same physics as the human player. The thing that you should not do (especially against AI in more manoeuvrable planes) is follow them move for move trying to stick to their six. Aim to intercept their predicted path instead, and riddle them with 0.5-1 sec bursts when your paths cross.


Maybe not "flawless", but it sure seems like they are all expert flyers. They handle energy a whole lot better than me and every plane I've flown against can turn tighter than me. I've been flying the N-11 and N-17 in late 1916. I'm not a real pilot, but been flying sims for a while so I think I'm at least average and I'm not even close to the skills AI seem to have. Also my CO is a jerk! I follow planes all the way to the ground and still don't get credit for it! ;)

COs are like that :lol:

To convince yourself that AI are not expert flyers, watch ace level AI Dr1 pathetic attempts at turning right. As for your turning circle not being as tight as AI- remember that each plane has optimum sustained turning speed, so if you pull the stick too much you will gain a momentarily advantage, but soon AI who sticks to the optimum speed better will out-turn you. Force feedback stick is good helps here, and listen to the wind noise too…

Last but not least, experience in other sims does count, but ROF has fidelity of physics tat is only matched by DCS and Falcon BMS, and even then switching to WW1 is hard as theyr require A TON of rudder input (unlike later aircraft). But, anyway - enjoy ROF :S!:
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#9 senoralec

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 00:38

"As for your turning circle not being as tight as AI- remember that each plane has optimum sustained turning speed, so if you pull the stick too much you will gain a momentarily advantage, but soon AI who sticks to the optimum speed better will out-turn you. Force feedback stick is good helps here, and listen to the wind noise too…"

Excellent point. Thank you. I'll look out for that. By the way, it just took 3 N-17's to down a DFW CV.
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#10 senoralec

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:05

"As for your turning circle not being as tight as AI- remember that each plane has optimum sustained turning speed, so if you pull the stick too much you will gain a momentarily advantage, but soon AI who sticks to the optimum speed better will out-turn you. Force feedback stick is good helps here, and listen to the wind noise too…"

Excellent point. Thank you. I'll look out for that. By the way, it just took 3 N-17's to down a DFW CV.

It might seem like I'm "beating a dead horse" but I still think there is something wrong. Getting back to the DFW CV. I played the mission again and 3 N-17 saw it at a distance. We eclosed to around 3-400 yards and got no closer. We were at maybe 200 yards altitude. He was jinking up down left right, all the things he should have been doing if we were closer. Also he maintained a fairly steady heading so there was no manuevering. All I did was fly perfectly straight and we did not close on him at all. Not in 10 minutes of flying. Basic geometry should have us close on him because we are flying in a straight line and he was not. Also he should have been using lots of energy with all his manuevers. Is there a reason why we couldn't close? Lqater, 3 more planes from another flight attacked him and no one, not 6 planes could shoot him down.
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#11 89

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:24

It might seem like I'm "beating a dead horse" but I still think there is something wrong. Getting back to the DFW CV. I played the mission again and 3 N-17 saw it at a distance. We eclosed to around 3-400 yards and got no closer. We were at maybe 200 yards altitude. He was jinking up down left right, all the things he should have been doing if we were closer. Also he maintained a fairly steady heading so there was no manuevering. All I did was fly perfectly straight and we did not close on him at all. Not in 10 minutes of flying. Basic geometry should have us close on him because we are flying in a straight line and he was not. Also he should have been using lots of energy with all his manuevers. Is there a reason why we couldn't close? Lqater, 3 more planes from another flight attacked him and no one, not 6 planes could shoot him down.

N17 has top speed of 165km/h (163 for British N17), DFW has 155km/h, so I can only guess that your fuel mixture was not set correctly. If you fly with automixture, be aware that setting it manually would give you rev/speed advantage.
ALso if your N17 dove from a high altitude prior to your chase, you may have overcooled the engine which again hampers performance.
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#12 Speckled_Jim

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:29

To convince yourself that AI are not expert flyers, watch ace level AI Dr1 pathetic attempts at turning right.

^ This.

Check this out. Sorry for the quality. http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"> … e=youtu.be

First take Dicta Boelke and ignore it completely. Then pick on an enemy aircraft that is superior in every way, with the best possible AI pilot, and beat him easily.

And this is coming from a pilot who gets utterly slaughtered on the Flying-Circus multiplayer-server.
Not good! The gap is too big.
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#13 gavagai

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 14:22

Oh, come on, the Sopwith Pup? You should be able to kill an AI D7F with the DH2!
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#14 Speckled_Jim

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 14:27

Oh, come on, the Sopwith Pup? You should be able to kill an AI D7F with the DH2!

Give us a chance! You've had 4 years more practise than me. Plus, I suspect, far better kit.
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#15 gavagai

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 14:33

:lol: You are right of course. :S!:
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#16 89

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 16:40

Oh, come on, the Sopwith Pup? You should be able to kill an AI D7F with the DH2!

Hm, should try that :)
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#17 senoralec

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 19:29

It might seem like I'm "beating a dead horse" but I still think there is something wrong. Getting back to the DFW CV. I played the mission again and 3 N-17 saw it at a distance. We eclosed to around 3-400 yards and got no closer. We were at maybe 200 yards altitude. He was jinking up down left right, all the things he should have been doing if we were closer. Also he maintained a fairly steady heading so there was no manuevering. All I did was fly perfectly straight and we did not close on him at all. Not in 10 minutes of flying. Basic geometry should have us close on him because we are flying in a straight line and he was not. Also he should have been using lots of energy with all his manuevers. Is there a reason why we couldn't close? Lqater, 3 more planes from another flight attacked him and no one, not 6 planes could shoot him down.

N17 has top speed of 165km/h (163 for British N17), DFW has 155km/h, so I can only guess that your fuel mixture was not set correctly. If you fly with automixture, be aware that setting it manually would give you rev/speed advantage.
ALso if your N17 dove from a high altitude prior to your chase, you may have overcooled the engine which again hampers performance.

First, there was no dramatic change in altitude, but that brings up the point of how to monitor that? I have mixture and radiator set on auto. Second, if I change the mixture to manual, I stand a chance of getting more power? Is that why I can't keep up with my AI squadron mates? I'm not really a bad flyer, I don't go bouncing around or changing my direction much at all, so there shouldn't be much waste.

Thanks for all the help!
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#18 gavagai

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 21:31

What 89 says is true for airspeed at sea level, but at altitude it will be very difficult for the N17 to catch the DFW. As you can see below, once you get to about 2.5km, the DFW is faster:

Attached File  1916.png   79.86KB   310 downloads

New TAS charts

But you should still learn to manage the mixture yourself. You will get more power that way.
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#19 senoralec

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 23:24

What 89 says is true for airspeed at sea level, but at altitude it will be very difficult for the N17 to catch the DFW. As you can see below, once you get to about 2.5km, the DFW is faster:



New TAS charts

But you should still learn to manage the mixture yourself. You will get more power that way.
Wow, the nieuport really does fall apart at altitude. I find it interesting most german planes are watter cooled inlines.
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#20 89

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 23:41

First, there was no dramatic change in altitude, but that brings up the point of how to monitor that? I have mixture and radiator set on auto. Second, if I change the mixture to manual, I stand a chance of getting more power? Is that why I can't keep up with my AI squadron mates? I'm not really a bad flyer, I don't go bouncing around or changing my direction much at all, so there shouldn't be much waste.

Thanks for all the help!

To monitor engine temp you need to turn on simple gauges,OR learn through experience what are the maximum revs for sustained level flight at different alts and then deduce drops in temp from drops in revs - ie "get a feel for it", OR buy field mods. Option 3 is by no means necessary.

Manual mixture=max climb rate and speed, yes. Increase mixture intil you see a drop in revs, at higher alt reduce the mixture until you see a drop in revs. It is hard to say whether that is the root of your problems, but give it a go -DFW should be catchable I think (LOVE the physics of N17, but didnt fly it much for some reason)…
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#21 gavagai

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 00:10

Wow, the nieuport really does fall apart at altitude. I find it interesting most german planes are watter cooled inlines.

Because of the blockade the Central Powers were short of castor oil, which was the lubricant of choice for rotary engines. Instead they relied on synthetic oils, but these were inferior, and limited the RPM of German rotary engines (not modeled in RoF).
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#22 Cptn_Goodvibes

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:01

G'day,


The A.I. quality does need to improve. It is definitely not up to IL2 HSFX standard, which is what I mainly use for flight sims. For the first time in months, I booted up ROF and flew the first mission of a Pat Wilson generated campaign mission. (Very nice work Pat and can see the urgent need for the early types to fill gaps) Unfortunately, I was able to kill four SPAD VII's (the 180hp variant) in as many minutes, whilst flying a bog standard "slow" Albatros D.III. This shouldn't be happening! I use full switch (nearly everything turned off), TrackIR, etc and have been flying combat sims for decades now. These SPAD's were caught on the deck and continued to turn and just lose height. No variation and totally predictable. Maybe I was lucky, but a smarter A.I would have used superior speed to disengage and later return to fight from a superior position. Most of my recent experience is against harder A.I and I would certainly not expect to rack up kills this easily and this fast. Real aces, like Richthofen or Ball could achieve multiple kills, but they were the exception to the rule. I certainly don't rate in their league and personal achievements like this destroy immersion and stretch the credibility of this simulation. The A.I skill of HSFX is much better, though is still not perfect in all situations. Like others, I've also heard good things about the latest patch to BOB Wings of Victory. Maybe it's got something to do with retaining height in battles, as the dogfights I've seen so far, quickly devolve down to ground level and stay there. However, I'll need to fly ROF more frequently to offer an informed opinion on this.

P.S. also noted a few aircraft auguring into trees on final approach to landing, whilst watching externals after I had already landed. Something not quite right there as well.


Regards,
Vibes
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#23 senoralec

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 13:20

Amazing, all the reports of bad AI flying. Yesterday was cloudy so we were under 200 meters, My N-17 and an Albatros DIII were heading straight on. I have the twin gun addon and got a good 1-2 second burst, the last of which was point blank, so you know I had to get some good hits. After passing him, I went into a comfortable climbing turn to check out where everyone else was. In the mean time, he did another of their "flawless" Immelmans, for some reason did a half barrel roll at about 100 meters and then while still inverted, was able to climb and score some hits on me. It sure seems like these German AI have spent alot of time in the air!

By the way, two guns over the wing and 4 rockets strapped on each end, really induces drag, I had a hard time turning at all. The rockets take a whole lot of getting used to, and so far I don't like them, but the twin guns really through alot of lead.
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#24 89

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 15:22

FLy with one gun only , N17 is less draggy, more stable this way ;)

The only plane which is not *ruined* by addtional weapnry (imho) is Spad 7 - I really like the addtional Lewis on it, much better for B'n'Z, and its climbing and speed are so superior to most of the opposition's that slight decrease is realtively unnoticed. Does become less stable though.
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#25 senoralec

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 16:09

Thats alot of lead throwing out of the two guns tho. In that mission, I got 2 of the Albatross' and forced the other 1 to land. I even had some ammo left to kill a balloon. Remember I'm the one complaining about how inferior I am in piloting skills compared to the AI. The handling is real bad, but while that was my only flight with the twin guns, it was a good start.
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#26 89

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 17:24

I know what you mean :S!:

I have started a Channel career and also had to pilot N17 for my first 2 missions - love, love this plane's physics model in ROF :)
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#27 HotTom

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 18:17

These SPAD's were caught on the deck and continued to turn and just lose height. No variation and totally predictable. Maybe I was lucky, but a smarter A.I would have used superior speed to disengage and later return to fight from a superior position.

Are you using Criquet's AI Mod? I would guess not. With the stock 777 AI, the B&Z planes turn instead of extending and are easy kills. If you use Criquet's AI Mod, they will extend away.

There were some of us who strongly recommended to 777 that they seriously upgrade the AI BEFORE they rewrote the SP Career. They didn't listen. Hate to say "I told ya so," but the result of 777 ignoring that advice is painfully obvious in this thread (and many others).

:S!:

HT
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#28 gavagai

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 18:32

Yeah, I don't get it either HT. Criquet's mod isn't perfect by any means, but what he did for the SE5a, Spad, and Pfalz D.XII is a lot better than default. We begged for his changes to be incorporated but nothing ever came of it.
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#29 Cptn_Goodvibes

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:46

HotTom

Are you using Criquet's AI Mod? I would guess not. With the stock 777 AI, the B&Z planes turn instead of extending and are easy kills. If you use Criquet's AI Mod, they will extend away.

There were some of us who strongly recommended to 777 that they seriously upgrade the AI BEFORE they rewrote the SP Career. They didn't listen. Hate to say "I told ya so," but the result of 777 ignoring that advice is painfully obvious in this thread (and many others).

:S!:

HT

G'day,


No mate, you are correct, I was still using the default A.I. I've downloaded the mod package and applied it. Hope to test it out when I get some free time, but have had visitors and am scheduled for work over the weekend. Probably Sunday after my SEOW commitments. And yes, it is a terrible oversight in not fixing this before revising the career mode. Personally, I suspect that ROF lends itself more towards this career aspect than with multiplayer. I guess I'm finding that using TS communications in a WW1 sim to be rather "unhistorical" and detracts from usage of ROF's pilot gesture commands.


Regards,
Vibes
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#30 HotTom

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 18:53

You will still have some AI grumbles but, overall, it helps a lot. Thanks again to Gav for keeping it current! :S!:
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#31 senoralec

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:19

I think maybe I can sum it up this way: The AI aren't very smart flyers, but they sure are skilled flyers.
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#32 senoralec

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 15:54

Another day of frustration. I haven't gotten to the point yet where the AI's lack of initiative applies, they are just too good at acrobatics, and shooting. How can we both be in level flight head on, I fill him full of holes, we pass and while I'm flying straight at 180kmh, he immelmans and gets on my tail to shoot at me. While he's stalling, and changing directions, He's climbing a bit for the stall, dropping down a bit at the end of the stall and and then climbing to get back to my altitude, I'm flying away from him at full speed. How does he kill me with a 1 second burst? Baloney! Note that I said we were both in level flight. He didn't have the energy of a slow dive. And the N-17 and Albatross III are very close in speed. Maybe, if I made a mistake, or he had the time to maneuver into position. Maybe he might get a shot at me.

And if their acrobatic skills aren't enough, I'd have to say more times than not, they are such superb shots, they kill me or disable my plane with just a burst or 2. 1 second is 16 bullets. Damn, they must spend alot of time practicing! I've emptied plenty of guns and seen their shredded wings, just to watch them fly away because all thats left for me is to ram them.

There is much to this game I like, but I'd rather see the AI dumb down a bit, then me have to dumb down my settings to arcade level.

On a different note. I led my first misson. My two other mates dissapeared from the fight only to show up again when we were landing. I landed first, taxied to a hanger and then watched both of them keep such good formation then landed exactly where I taxied too. Both hit me.
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#33 89

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 17:00

I feel a lot of frustration here :)

Video tutorials on head on passes :) :

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=1cCXCt6rzPA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=N7V6QYOGEgk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Ex8B1IRliGA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

THese work with AI to some extent - going head on is always risky. One thing AI CAN do is shoot, that's for sure. So dont let AI play its best card, outfly it through better energy conservation - works every time.
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#34 HotTom

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 17:30

Senoralec (sounds like a brand of laxative :mrgreen: ):

Couple of points:

You've only been at this a very short while. Keep practicing. I guarantee in the very near future your opinion will change and you will think the AI are really too dumb and predictable. The only time I get killed by AI is when they outnumber me.

As Req says in the very first video 89 recommended above, avoid head-on engagements. They are suicidal. Real pilots only used them as a last resort (don't confuse this with Boelcke's Dicta which says keep your plane pointed toward the enemy when he has an advantage. He isn't telling you to attack head on, just keep them off your six and discourage him from a head-on attack).

As for being a flight leader, are you giving them the rejoin command? Mine always come back when I call them (better than my dogs, in fact :mrgreen: ).

Also, land first and quit the game before your AI wingmen can get down. The AI really suck at landing (I told ya they're really dumb) and they'll just get killed if you let them try. Won't affect the mission scores doing it that way.

:S!:

HT
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#35 senoralec

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 18:20

I feel a lot of frustration here :)

Video tutorials on head on passes :) :

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=1cCXCt6rzPA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=N7V6QYOGEgk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Ex8B1IRliGA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

THese work with AI to some extent - going head on is always risky. One thing AI CAN do is shoot, that's for sure. So dont let AI play its best card, outfly it through better energy conservation - works every time.


Nice videos, they give me some things to try, but none of them answer how they can turn around that fast. I'm going away from him at 180kmh, and he is coming to a dead stop while he stalls. How can he be on my tail 3 seconds later and kill me? It's as if the Germans have computer guided flight surfaces and fire control. As far as energy, starting at 200 meters, I've seen them Immelman, maybe 10 times with me getting a short burst every time and then they are at the tree line with plenty of energy left to climb and pull another one. I'm not talking about just 1 bad flight. This happens almost every time. Also, while I'm not a good acrobat, I'm not a bad pilot. I know about energy, I know how to lead a shot, I know the range of my guns, I know how to handle (somewhat)the physics of my plane. I've got to be as good as at least some green pilot in real life, and these guys can out dogfight me like crazy. They are just too good to kill me with 16-32 bullets as often as they do.

Sorry If I seem like a nag. I'll drop the subject for a little while and we'll see if I change my mind.
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#36 gavagai

gavagai
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Posted 29 April 2013 - 18:40

You're flying the N17? No way you can exit a fight. You have to turn and engage ASAP.

Also, the AI sucks at turning. You can beat them if you practice.
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#37 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 19:20

Try using an Alby DVa to fight a Spad 13.
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The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#38 89

89
  • Posts: 593

Posted 29 April 2013 - 22:32

Another day of frustration. I haven't gotten to the point yet where the AI's lack of initiative applies, they are just too good at acrobatics, and shooting. How can we both be in level flight head on, I fill him full of holes, we pass and while I'm flying straight at 180kmh, he immelmans and gets on my tail to shoot at me. While he's stalling, and changing directions, He's climbing a bit for the stall, dropping down a bit at the end of the stall and and then climbing to get back to my altitude, I'm flying away from him at full speed. How does he kill me with a 1 second burst? Baloney! Note that I said we were both in level flight. He didn't have the energy of a slow dive. And the N-17 and Albatross III are very close in speed. Maybe, if I made a mistake, or he had the time to maneuver into position. Maybe he might get a shot at me.

And if their acrobatic skills aren't enough, I'd have to say more times than not, they are such superb shots, they kill me or disable my plane with just a burst or 2. 1 second is 16 bullets. Damn, they must spend alot of time practicing! I've emptied plenty of guns and seen their shredded wings, just to watch them fly away because all thats left for me is to ram them.

There is much to this game I like, but I'd rather see the AI dumb down a bit, then me have to dumb down my settings to arcade level.

On a different note. I led my first misson. My two other mates dissapeared from the fight only to show up again when we were landing. I landed first, taxied to a hanger and then watched both of them keep such good formation then landed exactly where I taxied too. Both hit me.


I've recorded a couple of fights- N17 vs 3 ace AI Albie D3. Please excuse terrible piloting and abysmal shooting - I have loads of excuses :lol:

I also hardly know N17, so by no means optimum tactics, but good enough for current AI in this sim.

Unrar the tracks into Rise of FLight/Data/Tracks folder

https://www.box.com/...ml7qfg2p72iu4d5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.box.com/...ml7qfg2p72iu4d5

PS N17 is one of the trickier planes- much, much harder to learn than Albies, Pup, Pfalz D3… So switching to a more forgiving plane may be a good idea to start with. I recommend SPAD13- that is where you learn energy fight geometry of WW1. Everything will become easier then.
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#39 senoralec

senoralec
  • Posts: 46

Posted 01 May 2013 - 14:30

PS N17 is one of the trickier planes- much, much harder to learn than Albies, Pup, Pfalz D3… So switching to a more forgiving plane may be a good idea to start with. I recommend SPAD13- that is where you learn energy fight geometry of WW1. Everything will become easier then.


Your probably right, I just remember how much fun the Nieuport was in Red Baron. Also by nature (or lack of skill), I'm basically a turn fighter. Boom & Zoom I think in reality only worked well on an unsuspecting plane. Thats why you'd try to come in out of the sun. The way these Germans Immelman so effortlessly, I wonder how easy it would be to come screaming down on him at 270kmh only to have him move out of the way, cause his radar tells him your coming. I do mean radar, I thinks these guys have an AWAC flying above.

By the way, I just bought a Trackir 4 with trackclip on ebay for $70. Looking forward to getting it!
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#40 gavagai

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 14:34

Yeah, the N17 was also one of my favorites in RB. The Sopwith Pup is boring by comparison and it's so fast you have to worry about overshooting, but it is probably a better choice for you until you have more experience.
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