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All-time problem: View


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#1 Picco

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 14:15

So,

I am flying RoF for 2 months now and getting better with the time. But I have a problem using the Jostick and changing the views accordingly at the same time. I tried different things like the keyboard the hat switch, the mouse, even the facetracking and nothing really matched to me.
Facetracking needs a lot of customization and even when configured it is like playing RoF and Mikado at the same time.
Mouse works pretty good when I hold the mouse with the right hand, because I am right-hander, but then again holding a right-hander joystick with the leftstick. Using the mouse with the left-hand doesnt work. So I end up flying on "Flying Circus" using the padlock, but thats just half of the fun.

Eventually, I keep losing every fight, because I dont fight against the enemys plane, but against the view controls. I loose the planes sight and dont know where he is and cant keep an overview about the situation.

Is this an beginners problem? Do I have to spend more time into conifguring the view controls? How do you control the view?
Some advice would be very nice! :S!:
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#2 Trooper117

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 14:22

There is only one real option for maximum realism… certainly changed flight simming for me years ago, and that was purchasing a Trackir..
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#3 Retro-Burn

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 15:00

There is only one real option for maximum realism… certainly changed flight simming for me years ago, and that was purchasing a Trackir..

+1 Worth every penny
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#4 Picco

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 15:47

There is only one real option for maximum realism… certainly changed flight simming for me years ago, and that was purchasing a Trackir..

+1 Worth every penny

I already saw videos and read about it, how does compare to facetracking?
Unfortunately it is very expensive, I can hardly effort 150$ being a student.
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#5 oneeyeddog

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 16:19

Picco, I can sympathize with your problem. View adjustment was, for me , the most frustrating part of ROF. Getting TrackIR solved all my problems.It's a game changer. The second piece of hardware I'd invest in after a joystick.
There are alternatives to TrackIR worth looking into like FaceTrack or FreeTrack.
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#6 Panthercules

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 16:19

I got my TIR years ago, and have never tried the various cheaper alternatives (I think FreeTrack may be one), so I can't compare between the two. TIR is such a "game changer" that I would never fly without it, now that I know how cool it is. But if you don't have the money for TIR yet, the best way I had found to handle views back in the dark ages before I discovered TIR was to get one of those Logitech trackball mice (the one with the really big ball) - it took a little practice, but I actually got very good at using my left hand on that ball to control my view, and the big ball made it easier to control and make smooth yet rapid movements when necessary. I haven't seen those things in the stores much lately, so I don't know if you might have to go on eBay or somewhere else online to find one, but I found that much better than trying to use hat switches, keyboard snap views, regular mice or anything else until TIR came along.

TIR takes a little time to get used to as well - you do have to play around with the profile/curve settings to get the right balance between RL head movement and in-game head movement, and then you just have to practice with it till you get used to it in the game. BUT, it is so worth it in the end, because it makes it all so effortless that you just look around, without having to think about how to look around.
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#7 Picco

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 17:42

Thanks for the response!
As I mentioned I already tried Facetracking, it is of course a lot more intuitive but lacks of control when you reach a maximum or do fast motions. So basically you either move the head slow and precise or fast and unprecise, as you have to move the head away from the screen. In a fight this could result in a small panic.
I hope you understand me, Im not sure if I wrote that comprehendable.
I guess the TrackIR is more precise, but somehow will have the same disadvantages. Thus, I am not sure to spend so much money if it is just a more precise FaceTrack :D
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#8 =MR.FOX=

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 18:14

Thanks for the response!
As I mentioned I already tried Facetracking, it is of course a lot more intuitive but lacks of control when you reach a maximum or do fast motions. So basically you either move the head slow and precise or fast and unprecise, as you have to move the head away from the screen. In a fight this could result in a small panic.
I hope you understand me, Im not sure if I wrote that comprehendable.
I guess the TrackIR is more precise, but somehow will have the same disadvantages. Thus, I am not sure to spend so much money if it is just a more precise FaceTrack :D


Hey Picco,

I've used freetrack since year 1 of RoF. I've had no issues with quick movements. so long as my batteries are charged and head with in the field of view of my cam its smooth. maybe you need to tweak the settings?
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#9 Picco

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 18:50

Hey Picco,

I've used freetrack since year 1 of RoF. I've had no issues with quick movements. so long as my batteries are charged and head with in the field of view of my cam its smooth. maybe you need to tweak the settings?

I am using FaceTrackNoIR..is it the same as FreeTrack?
I had to configure it a lot until i saw some results that were ok. It also comes to my mind that you always have to trade between 2 options: Either you have many samples, thus a smooth and soapy, but accurate tracking. Or you have a fast, but very inaccurate tracking.
Both options are rather annoying in some kind :(
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#10 =MR.FOX=

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 20:56

Hey Picco,

I've used freetrack since year 1 of RoF. I've had no issues with quick movements. so long as my batteries are charged and head with in the field of view of my cam its smooth. maybe you need to tweak the settings?

I am using FaceTrackNoIR..is it the same as FreeTrack?
I had to configure it a lot until i saw some results that were ok. It also comes to my mind that you always have to trade between 2 options: Either you have many samples, thus a smooth and soapy, but accurate tracking. Or you have a fast, but very inaccurate tracking.
Both options are rather annoying in some kind :(


oh ok I see. no freetrack is a completely different beast then. I made myself an IR light cap and used an old web cam. so for me the cost was about 15$-20$ since I already had the cam. just for IR lights learned some basic soldering and wiring took about 30 min to put together. Although I will eventually move to trakir for the greater angle of view/movement, this DIY works great for now.
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#11 sebbrof

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:09

You should give Freetrack a try. I started by building something out of junk (pencils and an old bycicle light). Tried Facetracknoir too and didnt find it satisfiying.
Or, you start playing around with how to set up your joysticks coolie hat. Before I tried the various headtracking systems and ultimatley bought trackir i used the coolie hat in pan view mode.
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#12 Rivet

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:45

Here's a link to my freetrack setup. I prefer this method as you don't have to bother with batteries or resistors in the build. works a treat. Just take care with the build and take time to set everything correctly in the software. :S!:
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#13 Picco

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 22:36

Thanks :)
I fiddled a bit more with the snap view settings after I noticed it is possible to save own views..its working a bit bett now. However, I will look into the Freetrack stuff, but it seems that you need some knowledge with electricity :D
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#14 Stick-95

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 22:52

Frankly I think you should stay away from any of the head tracking software. I need someone to sneak up on. :twisted:
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#15 WarnerVH

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 07:00

Learning how to use some meaningful method to move your view inside the cockpit is by far an art form. I have never used trackIR or any of the other hardware other than a mouse. I tried the lock view which does not work as sometimes you dont want to zero in your view as much as just follow him so you can keep track of him. Snap views didn't work for me either as I lost the plane if I didn't view in the right direction. This is the best way I have found worked for me and now I can would not change this method of viewing and looking around for anything including a track IR.

Get a table or some flat surface and place it to the left of your chair at a height and distance that it is comfortable for your left hand. Take your mouse (assuming you have a cordless one) and put it on the table or flat surface that is to the left of you and use your left hand for looking around exclusively. Now you will lose some control to use your keyboard when looking with your mouse. But, if you are in a dog fight you will not be playing with nobs and keyboard functions other than a throttle anyhow. But if you do your tophat can be used for viewing while you fiddle with the keyboard with your left hand and then use the left hand to fine tune and zero in on your targets in a dogfight etc.

At first it takes some getting used to; but after a bit of practice it is second nature. Much like playing a piano and using both hands. It will work once you get used to it.

Sounds crazy? Try it, it worked for me.

Cheers!
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#16 Picco

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 12:45

Frankly I think you should stay away from any of the head tracking software. I need someone to sneak up on. :twisted:

Dont worry, even with perfect sight I am still an easy target :?
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#17 senoralec

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 17:45

WOW, I just saw a U-Tube demo of Track IR. Amazing! I just spent over 100 on a new joystick, 30+ for the game. I can't spend another 150 tho. What a shame! I always said that what sims lack was the "seat of the pants" feeling. Minus the inner ear balance issues there are in real flight, this really is a game changer.
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#18 Badgerbrown

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 18:35

I can't spend another 150 tho. What a shame!


Try to find an older version of TIR (3Pro or 4Pro) online (ebay, etc…) You can cut the cost by atleast 50%…
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#19 Panthercules

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 18:38

I can't spend another 150 tho. What a shame!


Try to find an older version of TIR (3Pro or 4Pro) online (ebay, etc…) You can cut the cost by atleast 50%…

Yes - while I'm sure that the newer versions are somewhat improved, I'm still using my old original TIR3 H/W (with vector expansion for 6DOF) and it's still working great, so grabbing up an older version if cheaper would certainly be an option to consider.
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#20 closed_accont

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 20:55

I'm a newbie on ROF too, and this whole topic interest me a lot, but I'm curious.. how do Track-IR users does to check theirs six? a little head move means more significant virtual move? i'll appreciate comments…
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#21 Trooper117

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 21:06

Watch this…


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#22 =CfC=FatherTed

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 22:17

The Freetrack solution uses a Webcam (slightly modified) and a homemade "clip", holding the IR LEDS. When I started, I bought the Track-clip Pro (£30) and a Webcam (£15), so a significant saving. Now I've made my own clip, because I wanted to improve on the Natural Point one. This cost about £5 (and it does work better with FT).

I've not used TIR, but I suspect that it is a bit smoother (Webcams generally max at 30fps, whereas I guess the TIR cam is better), with a wider FOV, so that you can move about more without "disappearing". Also the software seems to be more flexible in terms of setting the response curves.

Freetrack does do the job. I'd recommend it to anyone - even if it's just to whet your appetite for "proper" TrackIR.

Did you notice in the vid that he called it "Tracker"? I always call it "Track Eye Arr". Just thought you needed to know that…
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#23 senoralec

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 16:48

I just got a Trackir 4 from ebay with the trackclip. I got to say, it makes flying alot more fun, just to be able to glance down and to my left to see whats below is nice, but… At least the N-17 I'm flying has such poor visability, I'm still using the padlock views in a fight. The thing does take getting used to.
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