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Sikorsky Ilya Muromets


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#41 Wad

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 19:12

Вот это по-настоящему неожиданно! Отличная работа! Вот что значит - человек дела а не трепло! :S!:
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#42 Dutch2

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:14

good news: this is very good made plane
bad news: this will never be integraded in Rof, see all the postings like the Hanriot or Morane. 777 will never allow you to do this, sorry to write this down! I know the WW2 scene for Bos will be much bigger so who knows the game will be hacked, to allow add-on planes and fm/dm
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Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#43 Geier

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:17

Бебе в нашей раскраске есть, Альбатросы 2 в раскраске ОАВ есть, роланд уже готов. Муромца добавят - готовый восточный фронт, срочно нужна карта Ковеля - на ней пойдет и 1916 и 1917 http://ruskline.ru/m...torskoj_gvardii" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://ruskline.ru/m...oring_smi/2008/ … oj_gvardii
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#44 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:21

Wow, what a bird. Exellent job!
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#45 Avimimus

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:24

good news: this is very good made plane
bad news: this will never be integraded in Rof, see all the postings like the Hanriot or Morane. 777 will never allow you to do this, sorry to write this down! I know the WW2 scene for Bos will be much bigger so who knows the game will be hacked, to allow add-on planes and fm/dm

The rumblings I've heard have been positive for incorporating models. Certainly there is active inclusion of static objects going on.

Thats said, the models would have to be compatible - and I know that the Morane N was not (and was never designed for inclusion in RoF). The Hanriot I don't know about.

Of course, including a user created 3d model is very different from creating a flying aircraft model. The latter would require many thousands of dollars in research and coding (to get the FM / DM / AI right). But I see no reason not to expect a model like this as a static object (or even part of an official pack of 3rd party produced models).
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#46 Avimimus

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:27

Impressive work! Really, really nice. :S!:

In response to someone's question: A static objects for RoF is easily made, but there is one issue: Static objects in RoF do not support multiple LODs the same way as for vehicles/planes. The LOD distance is optimized for big buildings, not for highly detailed objects up close….

A static vehicle then? Surely that must be possible!?
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#47 Avimimus

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:29

I am sorry I can't answer your question at the moment. I would wait for developers responce if any.


Thank you very much! Your answer has settled a lot of my curiosity.

I searched several times over the last few years - thank you for making the search worthwhile!
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#48 Bf-110

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:31

Good news again.
Roland C.II was being made by someone of the community (can't remember the name now,please don't get angry) and got rejected (apparently).Few weeks later Roland C.II appeared on RoF plans,coincidence or not…
Sooo…
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#49 Bf-110

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:37

BTW,this site looks fantastic for info about "obscure" aircraft.But…it's in russian…

http://flyingmachine.../Craft28228.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://flyingmachine.../Craft28228.htm
http://flyingmachine.../Craft28229.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://flyingmachine.../Craft28229.htm
http://flyingmachine.../Craft28230.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://flyingmachine.../Craft28230.htm
http://flyingmachine.../Craft28231.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://flyingmachine.../Craft28231.htm
http://flyingmachine.../Craft28232.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://flyingmachine.../Craft28232.htm
http://flyingmachine.../Craft28233.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://flyingmachine.../Craft28233.htm

BTW,what are the two large two tubes over the cockpit and the engines?
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#50 Dutch2

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:39

Good news again.
Roland C.II was being made by someone of the community (can't remember the name now,please don't get angry) and got rejected (apparently).Few weeks later Roland C.II appeared on RoF plans,coincidence or not…
Sooo…

yep that is prove, prove that 777 will not allow to create planes they will not bring away there cash cow to the butcher and I can not blame that for blocking this. Plane your are refer to is not made by that person and was bad made Btw.

Couple of weeks ago there was a nice discussion going on about fm, see Developer SDK - Shared source model for FMs and other subsys


will not force something here, but as a static object would be a great start here, try the sdk

edit: 777 why not as a AI plane???
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#51 Sita

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:54

Image

такую книжку видел наверное
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#52 =KAG=Dron

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:55

:o :0o: :S!: :S!: :S!:
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#53 ROSS_Papa_JA2

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:56

Потрясающая новость!
Автору модели - самых наилучших пожеланий!
Ждем добрых вестей от 777. Очень хочется верить, что это рано или поздно ( но лучше рано)переместится в раздел продаж.
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#54 ROSS_BerryMORE

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:46

Круть! Похудел наверно без обедов-то:)
Вот это молодец!
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#55 hq_Jorri

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:20

Good news again.
Roland C.II was being made by someone of the community (can't remember the name now,please don't get angry) and got rejected (apparently).Few weeks later Roland C.II appeared on RoF plans,coincidence or not…
Sooo…

yep that is prove, prove that 777 will not allow to create planes they will not bring away there cash cow to the butcher and I can not blame that for blocking this. Plane your are refer to is not made by that person and was bad made Btw.

Couple of weeks ago there was a nice discussion going on about fm, see Developer SDK - Shared source model for FMs and other subsys


will not force something here, but as a static object would be a great start here, try the sdk

edit: 777 why not as a AI plane???

If only things were as simple.

But still, a ton of work needs to be done to this model to make it ready for RoF. Adapting it to RoF standards, making cockpits (from waht sources?), damage modeling, animating all the different bits and parts in the cockpit but also the external model…..so you could say only half the work is done here, or even less. And that's just for the model and textures.

So that's just the 2D and 3D work. They already outsource that, anyway. Then comes the work that 777 themselves have to do. Making the flight model, and everything that that involves - research, modeling the engine and fuel and coolant systems, matching performance to the available data…..

Of course, sounds need to be made.

Then this particular plane has a closed cockpit, which will require new techniques as well (which they just developed for BoS, if you follow their blogs, but might require another amount of work for RoF).

Apart from the cockpit modeling, most of these things would need to be done anyway, wether they make it an AI or a flyable plane.

So it's not about slaughtering a cash cow, it's much more straightforward than that: it would require a massive investment from them…just like any other plane. Wether a community member makes the flight model, or the team they employ that has already a lot of experience with RoF. Actually, it requires MORE investment from them to work with a community member…

So when it comes to what planes they implement, they will choose the experienced team every day…and the fact that they can choose whay planes they want to see themselves, rather than depend on the whim of the community modeler, and guide the process from the start rather than get a half-finished model thrown into your lap.

And then the suggestion to have this as a static model: that won't work either, because this model is much too detailed to be used like that…..waste of polygons and textures. I think if you're looking at the kind of quality you would want from a static plane model in RoF, you would be closer to the second LoD of our current planes? (maybe even the LoD models could be used for this?)

Having said that, of all the 3D projects that have passed on this forum, this beautiful model is the closest to being something the RoF developers can use, so who knows…..maybe they were already thinking of building this plane and this comes to them just at the right time?

I doubt it, though, because there is currently no theatre for it.
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#56 Waldo.Pepper

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:27

Would like to shoot this down with my Webley.
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#57 Relix

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 16:01

I want one
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#58 Wolfstrike

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 16:25

Instant buy from me.
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#59 Sita

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 16:41

Image

)
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#60 szelljr

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 17:51

Incredeebleeee!!! :shock: :0o:
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#61 Catfish

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 18:00

Great, it somehow looks like the Lexx of WW1 (if anyone knows this strange SciFi thing)
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#62 Korontari

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 18:56

If only things were as simple.

But still, a ton of work needs to be done to this model to make it ready for RoF.

(..skipped by Korontari)
Yes, that's true. Actually creating exterior part of a plane model is not a big deal. The need to search and follow historical references is the most challenging job, but apart from this the work can be done by an average skilled modeller. If this work is continued then the hardest part will come in. I understand that even if the 3d model is "free", there is still a big piece to be done by 777 that should be estimated, prioritized and put in schedule.

There is another important thing to keep in mind. Obviously I am not going to sacrifice my private life, job and career goals (and they have little in common with aircraft models) to make this plane. So even if the model is given a green light it will take another 14 month of a "lunch time" work to say the least. There should be no illusions upon that.

Nevertheless I believe it is doable. I dare to suppose the question is whether there is a bang for the buck. Anyway 777 has a bigger picture of that. And by no means I will feel offended if the model is rejected. May be now, may be later, may be never. ) As the protagonist in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" said - "But I tried, didn't I?" ))



Did the gun go in front of the plane cabin????How was it operated?

Yes, it was in front of the cabin. Once aircraft is airborne two gunmen used a hatch in the cockpit floor to get onto the gun platform. One man was aiming and firing while another one was charging the gun. Obviously it was a rather risky and breathtaking activity. The plane had to be kept stable in flight as it was impossible to use the gun during evolutions. According to M.Khayrulin the firing rate was 10 shots per minute. Shell dispersion was 200-250 meters and that was too bad.

BTW,what are the two large two tubes over the cockpit and the engines?

The long big sigars over the cockpit are fuel tanks. Small tubes behind engines are oil tanks.


:S!: :S!: :S!:
EXCELLENT!!

But (if am not mistaken) the V21 (cyrillic B21) aircraft had RBVZ engines (not Sunbeam) ;)

Yes, that is true. But initially it was fitted with Sunbeams as most other Veh ships. Also this model is thought to be a "generic" Type Veh model rather than particular aircraft.


Да-да, но форум-то английский. :-)

Yes, would be great if all comments can be read by international community. )


Круть! Похудел наверно без обедов-то:)
Вот это молодец!

"Lunch time" is not a "dinner time" but yes, I am slim and handsome now. ))
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#63 Bf-110

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 19:30

I don't know if you noticed,but at one of the links I posted there was an image of her cockpit.I saw another one on the ukranian wikipedia.
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#64 Korontari

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 19:54

I don't know if you noticed,but at one of the links I posted there was an image of her cockpit.I saw another one on the ukranian wikipedia.

Yes, thank you! I am familiar with these photos and have them as printed editions in better quality. The photo that is seen in Ukrainian wikipedia is taken from "replica" in Monino aircraft museum. As far as I know this replica was created for film production. It only roughly resembles real aircraft and can't be used as historical reference.

At the moment I think it is possible to build an interior around pilot seat and top gunner position. There are gaps in information regarding gauges (which I assume where imported from France) and central and door area. For instance I don't know how the bomb casset was fitted on rails on the wall, the Potte photocamera placement, navigational equipment etc.
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#65 Sita

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 20:07

in Nikolskoi's book many info about bombardier work …

i think most of gauges which was used in IM pit was French … and i hope if you will cooperate with 777 they can share with you…
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#66 An.Petrovich

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:28

Снимаю шляпу. Это круто. :S!:
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#67 Bf-110

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:15

I don't know if you noticed,but at one of the links I posted there was an image of her cockpit.I saw another one on the ukranian wikipedia.

Yes, thank you! I am familiar with these photos and have them as printed editions in better quality. The photo that is seen in Ukrainian wikipedia is taken from "replica" in Monino aircraft museum. As far as I know this replica was created for film production. It only roughly resembles real aircraft and can't be used as historical reference.

Thought the replica was good enought.What happened to these planes BTW?Were they destroyed during the Second World War?As far as I saw they survived the civil war and were decomissioned in the early 20s.
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#68 Huetz

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:02

Very impressing work!
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#69 Sita

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 06:10

Thought the replica was good enought.

Image

Image

http://igor113.livej....com/74567.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://igor113.livej....com/74567.html

not really
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#70 Gadfly21

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 06:58

This site has one interior shot. I remember a book which had several, but I can't remember it right now.

http://www.wio.ru/ww1a/im.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.wio.ru/ww1a/im.htm

There are at least three canopy variations that I've seen.
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#71 M.H

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:37

How do you create the threads on the plane ??? Edit- the ropes I mean .
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#72 fasta

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 14:30

Восхитительно!
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#73 roman1978

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 14:46

Слов нет. КРУТО!!!
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#74 Avimimus

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 16:28

Thought the replica was good enought.

not really

I'd trust your opionion Sita (assuming you are who I think you are)…

However, I must say - if it is the difference between seeing the airplane flying again in the sim and having it remain a black and white photograph - I'd be happy if the developers made a few educated guesses.

I love the fixed forward firing gun in those pictures btw… It'd be so much fun to straffe in a four engined plane!
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#75 SYN_MrWolf

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 16:44

Amazing modeling! At first glance it certainly looks like a quality model. Very well done.
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#76 Sita

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 17:32

I'd be happy if the developers made a few educated guesses.

I love the fixed forward firing gun in those pictures btw… It'd be so much fun to straffe in a four engined plane!

me too…

almost every game model ….( i mean any game … not concrete RoF) - is guesses in some meaning. more or less, if you didn't have that object on the desk before you, which you can measure by ruler

educated guesses that we see here look really like live Ilya Muromets …
looking forward continue!)
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#77 Korontari

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 20:40

This site has one interior shot. I remember a book which had several, but I can't remember it right now.

http://www.wio.ru/ww1a/im.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.wio.ru/ww1a/im.htm

There are at least three canopy variations that I've seen.

The canopies varied much. The Veh type had at least two major modifications - the "sharp-nosed" and "blunt-nosed". But even then planes may have had individual features like extra windows and cut-outs. A lot of changes were done at airfield workshops.

http://igor113.livej....com/74567.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://igor113.livej....com/74567.html

not really

Yes, one can't rely on these photos to built a historically accurate model. Though it would be great to have such a good quality references. ))

Here I uploaded the interior and gunner position photos I have at the moment. If someone finds an image that can add to this collection I would appreciate that much!

What happened to these planes BTW?Were they destroyed during the Second World War?As far as I saw they survived the civil war and were decomissioned in the early 20s.

Yes, most of them ended their service in early 20s. Some were used as mail and passenger aircrafts. Some were used as trainers. Airframes made of wood and canvas didn't last long and required a diligent maintance. A 1 year service on the front was considered a long term. I think that nobody just though of preserving this aircraft for future generations. There was a bloody civil war going on and people were bothered with other things.

However, I must say - if it is the difference between seeing the airplane flying again in the sim and having it remain a black and white photograph - I'd be happy if the developers made a few educated guesses.

I love the fixed forward firing gun in those pictures btw… It'd be so much fun to straffe in a four engined plane!

The forward firing gun was installed on the latest Type "E". They moved pilot seat to the port side and made a gunner position firing forward and downward. Though very cool looking and arguably the best modification of Ilya Muromets, I found very few visual references of it. While it is possible to build exterior model, I don't see any chance of recreating cockpit and gunner positions. Too many guessed would have to be made. Besides it had up to 7 gun positions (almost a flying fortress of its time) and that means tons of work for a good team of modellers. I would never bother with such model until some new information pops up.

But look at that photo:

Image

A crew member ( I suppose this is S. Nikolskoy ) is strafing a ground target through the opened door of the "Veh" ship. That was a common practice during mission. If brought to life into the game that should be a lot of fun. May be one could use a personal weapon for that? What about Madsen light machinegun as personal set? )))


How do you create the threads on the plane ??? Edit- the ropes I mean .

The ropes (or better say wires) are modelled as a poligonal mesh with triangular cross-section and simple gradient texture.
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#78 Sita

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:13

What about Madsen light machinegun as personal set? )))

indeed! :x :P must have 8-)
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#79 charlo

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:35

Gorgeous plane modeling, Korontari!

Image

The Ilya Murometz's (G-2 series) tail gunner ("nest")



Loneliest gunner position I have ever seen, especially without radios…

Charlo
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#80 Sita

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:40

about gauges
Image
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