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Ground textures "smart blur" mod


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#1 AnKor85

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:42

From 1.029 changelog
10. High landscape quality setting now is providing more details on terrain texture

Well, I can't say for everyone, but I don't like the change. Although I agree that fields appear sharper now, dirt roads are way too blocky and just ugly.

Comparison screenshots with old and new terrain rendering (thx to DiFiS):
Before:
Attached File  4_old.jpg   159.82KB   2036 downloads
After 1.029:
Attached File  4_new.jpg   166.83KB   2036 downloads

———- UPDATED ———
I've made a "smart blur" mod which only blurs the roads while keeping field details sharp.
See here: Re: Ground textures in 1.029

Mod download link:
Attached File  Ground Texture Smart Blur.zip   2.82KB   172 downloads

Also, here is the version of texture render which was before 1.029:
Attached File  Ground Texture - Pre 1029.zip   2.68KB   59 downloads

Please let me know your opinions about the mod.
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#2 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 13:13

Overall I like the new version better. Just yesterday I thought how great it loos from abit altitude. But you are right, the roads look jaggie down low now. Well, I for myself can accept the roads for the more detailed fields.
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#3 redcoat22

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 14:39

In my personal opinon the 1.029 version is indeed a little better. I see what you are saying but I think it was worth the blockier roads. To each his own!
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#4 DidNotFinish

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 14:39

Yeah, I noticed that dirt roads have taken a hit, but the ground looks so good from the air that I will manage to deal with it. I never cared enough about the dirt roads.
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#5 AnKor85

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 14:57

Ok. I see.
Then why we can't have the best of both worlds?
First, I've read a bit and implemented edge detection in a shader:
Attached File  trace.jpg   290.76KB   1957 downloads
This is the map by DiFiS - it has a lot of roads and now you can see them outlined.
Now, using this data I can blur textures (the way it was before 1.029) but only on road edges, while keeping everything else sharp.

Just take a look.

Old style (prior to 1.029) - details are too blurred:
Attached File  v1028-e2.jpg   327.01KB   1957 downloads

Official 1.029 - roads are to jagged, but field appears more detailed:
Attached File  v1029-e2.jpg   353.94KB   1957 downloads

Modified 1.029 - field details are retained, but roads are smooth:
Attached File  v1029-e2-modded.jpg   335.29KB   1946 downloads

Not releasing the mod yet, need to fine-tune it a bit a check how it affects performance (I suspect it doesn't because computationally it is VERY simple).
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#6 ChiefRedCloud

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 15:12

Since they took Sharpness out, do you reckon this is the problem? If so, then I believe it was Han who wrote this (correct me where neccissary, please) …

7. If you still want to use old options like "High Contrast" or "Sharpen Image", than edit your startup.cfg, post_contrast = 1, post_sharpen = 1. "Dither Vegetation" now is automaticaly enables when SuperSampling is on.

I'm kind of out of my element here so if I'm too far offbase, forgive me.
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#7 hq_Jorri

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 15:22

lol AnKor you are a wizard.
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#8 AnKor85

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 15:56

ChiefRedCloud, I'm actually wondering why they removed these settings, but I had both of them turned off anyway since I started using SweetFX.

hq_Jorri, I just like to learn new things. And ROF leaves a lot to be desi learned ;)
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#9 Der.Mo

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 15:59

Do you think it could collide with the "landscape mod"?
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#10 Jason_Williams

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 17:03

I'm moving this to the proper section.

Jason
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#11 AnKor85

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 18:12

OK. I've made a "smart blur" mod and updated the original post. I'm curious to see your opinions.

@Jason,
Well, this thread wasn't originally intended to be about making a mod, I wanted to point out that there is an issue with new implementation and that's why I posted it in Feedback section.
After all having a mod to solve an issue is not enough - if I'm going to play online I'll be forced to turn mods off. That's why I'd love to see such change made by devs. Of course, now they can look at this thread ans say: "You've made a mod but nobody uses it, there is no reason to change anything!". And I'm even sure there will NOT be a lot of people using this mod - the change is relatively subtle and most people will just stick with what devs gave them without even knowing that there can be something different.
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#12 O_WolfPac

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 18:34

Smoothing the pixels on Road/Path edges and keeping field high detail is a nice compromise

Salute !

I would like this in Multiplayer Mods off mode , please

I rarely fly offline , 99.9% online pilot
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#13 89

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 19:17

Thanks very much AnKor85!
I agree, I wouldnt use it in MODS ON mode as I never use that mode, but would love for this to be integrated into the sim.
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#14 ChiefRedCloud

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 19:33

Still, AnKor85, thanks for your time, your effort and your thoughts on a sim we enjoy. Dang if I don't sort of soundlike a fanboy …. LOL
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#15 Panthercules

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 23:35

I've been running some tests with SweetFX and a couple of landscape texture and noise mods, and I did notice a tendency for these little roads to get rather blocky if I pushed those other mods a bit too far, so I'm looking forward to trying this out when I get home tonight and seeing how it interacts with those other approaches.

Thanks for sharing this :S!:
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#16 gavagai

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 00:25

OK. I've made a "smart blur" mod and updated the original post. I'm curious to see your opinions.

@Jason,
Well, this thread wasn't originally intended to be about making a mod, I wanted to point out that there is an issue with new implementation and that's why I posted it in Feedback section.
After all having a mod to solve an issue is not enough - if I'm going to play online I'll be forced to turn mods off. That's why I'd love to see such change made by devs. Of course, now they can look at this thread ans say: "You've made a mod but nobody uses it, there is no reason to change anything!". And I'm even sure there will NOT be a lot of people using this mod - the change is relatively subtle and most people will just stick with what devs gave them without even knowing that there can be something different.

Nah, anything that addresses visual appearance receives lots of attention from the developers. ;)
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#17 Gadfly21

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 00:30

Great idea and mod Ankor! I hope the Devs implement something similar.
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#18 Feathered_IV

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:09

Very clever. I'm very much looking forward to trying it out. Well done!
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#19 gavagai

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:10

I think I prefer the old textures. The fields that have the combed appearance now give me a washboard crawl at low altitude, which wasn't present with the old textures.
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#20 Panthercules

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:22

Hmm - can't say I saw any real difference when I ran it with my current mix of SweetFX, landscape texture and noise mods. But then again, I don't have any noticeable blockiness with the roads using my current settings either (I compared some zoomed-real-close-ups of some dirt roads both with and without this mod).

I'll probably give it another shot tomorrow night, after I tweak up my other mods to the point where some road blockiness gets introduced, and then see if this mod helps counter the blockiness while retaining the other benefits.
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#21 gavagai

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 14:29

Ankor, can you make a mod that sets all of the textures back to their 1.028 settings? Pretty please? :)
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#22 AnKor85

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 15:42

gavagai, updated the first post to include "pre 1029" version.

Panthercules, looks like the tolerance to blocky textures is individual and I is really low for me :)
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#23 gavagai

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:03

Thanks!
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#24 Panthercules

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:26

Panthercules, looks like the tolerance to blocky textures is individual and I is really low for me :)

Well, maybe I'm not looking at the right places/things - but here are a couple of screenshots of what I was seeing last night - first with your mod installed, second without (just with my current other mod settings):

With yours:
Image

Without yours:
Image

This is the same dirt road/track, but apparently we were flying a few meters further east or west on the second try of the mission compared to the first. These are really zoomed in, so they don't show exactly the way things look in normal views, but I zoomed way in to try to see if there was any blockiness, and I couldn't see anything that seemed "blocky" to me.

As I posted before, I have seen some real blockiness when I pushed my other mods to more extreme settings, so I'll try that tonight and then compare yours again to see what happens.
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#25 AnKor85

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 17:17

LOL, with such strong details overlay you don't need any texture filtering :)
On the other hand if the nature of blockiness in your case lies in those detail textures - my mod won't fix it.

I'm speaking about more or less default settings.
Attached File  compare.jpg   268.35KB   273 downloads
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#26 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 18:46

Jaggiecourt :(

Image

I have the problem that not only the roads but every thin line that stands in contrast to the surrounding like painted walls/hedgerows are very blocky now.
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#27 AnKor85

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 19:06

WW1EAF_Paf, does it look like this even with my "smart blur" mod?

Since it is your own texture you can modify it too have less jaggies, but then your texture may not match the look of other terrain.

And now I want to show all of you something special. Have you seen the good old Red Baron II with software renderer? With texture jaggies so sharp you can cut a finger if you touched the monitor?
It… has… returned…
Attached File  Screenshot10244.jpg   229.73KB   246 downloads

No magic, I just turned texture quality to low. Mods off. Though even my "smart blur" can't handle this.

Hope now it will be more clear even for non-technical people what devs did and why I am so frustrated with the change.
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#28 tvrtko

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 19:23

LOL, with such strong details overlay you don't need any texture filtering :)
On the other hand if the nature of blockiness in your case lies in those detail textures - my mod won't fix it.

I'm speaking about more or less default settings.
Yes, improvement is evident.
Keep improving some more, please.
If that's even possible Ankor I mean. :S!:
Sadly, I'm able tu use only "medium"
settings for terrain, cuz I have crapy
PC (but that's about to change) but
when I switch to "high" I'll definitely
use your mod !
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#29 Gadfly21

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 19:35

.

Minecraft? :D
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#30 hq_Jorri

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 20:10

This does not happen for me with low textures? What causes it?
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#31 O_WolfPac

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:27

Ankor what settings do you have can you screen shot them and tag to this last photo i cant get my ROF to do that :)
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#32 AnKor85

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:13

I've just tried different options, and even enabled the supersampling, but I still get minecraft-y look when I set textures (not landscape!) to low.
Attached File  settings.jpg   124.07KB   327 downloads

Of course I doubt a lot of people play with low textures, but this doesn't look right anyway.
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#33 SYN_Vander

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:14

LOL, with such strong details overlay you don't need any texture filtering :)
On the other hand if the nature of blockiness in your case lies in those detail textures - my mod won't fix it.

I'm speaking about more or less default settings.

It's pretty evident for me. I really don't like the new pixelated look, so the " smart blur" looks like a winner to me! :)
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#34 tvrtko

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:32

Attached File  compare_2.png   1.12MB   303 downloads

What I've been notice is that in these areas
(in red circles) there is not much difference
but on all other (dirt road) areas - THERE IS.
So, I think, that is perhaps distance-related.
Those red areas are further away from our
point of view so I think, basically, the closer
to POV is - the worst it looks !? Take a look.
Am I right ?
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#35 hq_Jorri

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:35

That would be the work of Antrisopic Filtering, I think?
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#36 AnKor85

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:42

tvrtko, you are correct - ground looks better the further it is. Blocky texture will be more noticeable up close. However, this also really depends on the texture itself. Some dirt roads were originally drawn more smooth than others, while some are so sharp they look jagged even in 1.028.

For comparison take a look at British side of the Channel map - textures have less contrast there and bad side effects of 1.029 is not as noticeable as in Western Front map.
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#37 tvrtko

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:58

That would be the work of Antrisopic Filtering, I think?
Hm yes, you could be right but then - ankor's
mod change …shaders (texturerender.fx) and
doesn't have anything with AT so what could
be message in this ? AT filtering take care of
this further away but we need some kind of
shaders altering for close ones ?

For comparison take a look at British side of the Channel map…
Would.
But can't. Don't have it.
Sorry.
But I believe you're right.

:S!:
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#38 ROSS_DiFiS

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 14:08

Oops

Attached Files


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#39 O_WolfPac

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 16:22

Everything is reversible

Ground textures work the same as forest rendering textures, and i mean this in regards to multiple circles each circle a slightly different texture and different sized circle.

Its all about compromises and clever texturing
What this mod highlights is the close texture and it improves the quality and i would like it to be standard not just a MOD as i dont use mods i like ROF as it is :) standard i realise it can be more with mods and this is a mod i want when flying online in public servers.

Question is WHY?
Why has the texture been reduced

All i can think is the resource was needed for something else or several items reduced to allow optimim running for lower speed PC users and/or its been reduced to free up resources for future projects.
OR
Its as in alot of cases when multiple patches are released , its just a human error that an old texture has raised up and been highlighted here and now

which ever the case the mod does improve quality and it does compromise but the bigger picture i hope will take this graphical addition into account as "Standard ROF"
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#40 gavagai

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 16:23

My wish is that Moscow would leave this crap alone. It was fine in 1.028. Every third update there's a new graphical option, and everyone dives into their driver settings, tweaking, testing, and posting about their results. The net result over the past two years? It all looks about the same.
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