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Wings Ripping Off Much Easier?


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#81 Hellshade

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:58

The F.2b has never had strong wings. Try a scout with tough wings, like the Camel or Dr1, and see what you get.

As you wish…

what are your honest impressions?

Ok, you have me on board. The Camel is normally tougher than that.

I just came from a quick MP session, and my impression is that aircraft are coming apart much easier than normal. For example, I knocked the wings off two HP 400s without much effort. Something is fishy.

Cool. As I said before I am not a Dev or even a Modder, so basically I couldn't begin to say with any conviction what the actual cause of the problem is. I only know that it wasn't at all like this before that last patch, which hopefully means that it's something that can be undone relatively easy, presuming it wasn't intentional by the Devs.
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#82 MPcdn

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:38

I keep asking this but still no info, Do the devs read this and are they working on it? Please Devs just say you are reading this and we will all be happier, better yet say there maybe a fix.
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#83 NattyIced

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:51

They have a lot to take care of MPcdn. Patience would be key, especially considering the release of 1.029 was 2 1/2 weeks ago amidst two major holidays.
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"Now comes a matter that I want to discuss with you: Our aircraft, quite frankly, are ridiculously inferior to British [aircraft]. The [Sopwith] Triplane and 200hp SPAD, as well as the Sopwith [Camel] single-seater, play with our [Albatros] D.V. In addition to having better-quality aircraft, they have far more [of them]. Our really good fighter pilots are lost in this manner. The D.V is so far surpassed by and so ridiculously inferior to the British single-seaters that one cannot begin to do anything with [the D.V]. But the people at home have brought out no new machines for almost a year, [only] these lousy Albatroses, and have remained stuck with the Albatros D.III [types], in which I fought in the autumn of last year." - Manfred von Richtofen


#84 MPcdn

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:27

I agree and I do not want to take them away from inportant work but it would be nice to know that they are looking into it.
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#85 Nrohtnalu

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:36

They have a lot to take care of MPcdn. Patience would be key, especially considering the release of 1.029 was 2 1/2 weeks ago amidst two major holidays.
What holidays…welcoem to the atheistic 21, canetury I has to work all the "holidays" including the 1st of January. There is nothing like holidays in business in 2013 especialy if you run a game that is considered online to play and that forces player to update and does not alow to fall back to a stable build. Now consider what would happen if WoW online would have released a bad build for more than 2 weeks.
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#86 Panthercules

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:37

I've posted about this in the 1.029 bug thread just in case, so the devs should be sure to see this even if they somehow missed this thread before.
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#87 LukeFF

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:53

What holidays…welcoem to the atheistic 21, canetury I has to work all the "holidays" including the 1st of January. There is nothing like holidays in business in 2013 especialy if you run a game that is considered online to play and that forces player to update and does not alow to fall back to a stable build. Now consider what would happen if WoW online would have released a bad build for more than 2 weeks.

:roll:
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#88 Hellshade

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:56

I've posted about this in the 1.029 bug thread just in case, so the devs should be sure to see this even if they somehow missed this thread before.

Thank you.

Apologies though. I am looking for where you posted about it and I cannot seem to locate the thread. I found a Patch 1.029 and Channel Bug thread, however I saw no mention of the "melting wings" issue. Perhaps I missed it? Could you add a link so I can also watch for any other responses? It would be greatly appreciated.
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#89 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:08

They have a lot to take care of MPcdn. Patience would be key, especially considering the release of 1.029 was 2 1/2 weeks ago amidst two major holidays.
What holidays…welcoem to the atheistic 21, canetury I has to work all the "holidays" including the 1st of January. There is nothing like holidays in business in 2013 especialy if you run a game that is considered online to play and that forces player to update and does not alow to fall back to a stable build. Now consider what would happen if WoW online would have released a bad build for more than 2 weeks.

+1 Video games are way too important to allow the programmers to have any time off!
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#90 Tiger27

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:19

But it also happens when only moderatly pulling into a turn,and there wheren't such problems before the last Update. I usually was able to fight on even with my Wings holed like Swiss cheese,but not anymore.^^

So your complaining about the game being made more realistic? sheesh :mrgreen:

Not sure where you see anyone complaining it is more an observation of something that appears to have changed in the last patch, whether it is a good or bad thing probably depends on which end of the MG you are at :x

III/JG11_Tiger
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#91 Hubert

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:35

Hi.

There was a big big difference in shooting wings off after 1.026 due to the rates of fire changing, but the first time i flew after 1.029 the first thing i noticed was the wings seemed to come off enemy planes much easier than prior to 1.029. So i set up a quick mission low on the deck ( to prevent the enemy planes from diving and ripping their own wings off) and still a short and not particually concentrated burst will lead to the wings folding up a few seconds after the burst, even at almost stall speeds. To me the Albies seem to loose their wings the easiest out of the German Biplanes. Not lost any wings myself yet, but theres time. lol.


Hub S!!
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#92 J30_von_Hammer

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:14

I know the RoF Alb is not quite comparable to the real Alb, from all I've read and, from discussions with pilots at Rhinebeck. I think there is always a slight bias against the Germans in the WWI sims, including the old Red Baron game, but, I fly what I am given.

The only thing I'd really like to see in both the Albatros and the Nieuports (11 & 17) is a more realistic wing failure. For me, if I dive too hard, I lose an aileron on the Alb. I've never read of such a failure occuring. It's steel tube structure, so quite a bit stonger than if it were wood.

But both Albs and Nieuports, according to combat reports, always tended to lose the bottom wing when it twisted off. I've never seen my lower wing come off (except for combat damage) due to a hard dive. I always seem to take damage to the top wing. I rarly read of top wings coming off unless it's a very hard dive, and usually observed by others, as the poor pilot didn't make it.

But, you read of several pilots who tell of losing their lower wing and making it down. The Austro-Hungarian built version with two spar lower wings didn't appear to have the issue, and reports from them are pretty good, with no common stories of bottom, or top, wing loss in hard dives.

I just wish the game would model the lower wing to come off first, instead of ailerons or top wing parts. Also, for the Alb, a lower wing loss would also mean the loss of the aileron on that side, since the control cables came from the lower wing (except on the Alb D5, not D5a, in which they put the wires through the top wing).

It would be fun to look over the side, in a hard dive, and see the lower wing starting to get twisty, and knowing it's getting pushed a bit too far.
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#93 Panthercules

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:18

I've posted about this in the 1.029 bug thread just in case, so the devs should be sure to see this even if they somehow missed this thread before.

Thank you.

Apologies though. I am looking for where you posted about it and I cannot seem to locate the thread. I found a Patch 1.029 and Channel Bug thread, however I saw no mention of the "melting wings" issue. Perhaps I missed it? Could you add a link so I can also watch for any other responses? It would be greatly appreciated.


I was referring to one of the beta testing threads - probably not generally visible but the devs see it for sure.
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#94 J30_von_Hammer

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:36

As for rate of fire, it techically should almost be like fuel- set by the pilot. The Vickers, Spandau, Lewis, and Parabellum all had a spring tension settings on the side to set the rate of fire. Set it up fast, and you use up ammo faster and risk more frequent jamming. Set it too slow, and it fires more reliably but may not be as effective when the enemy falls under them. Again, being a pilot controlled setting would be nice.

But, also a tid bit, my buddy, who is a renowned Spandau expert (anyone who has gone to the Dawn Patrol in Ohio has most likely seen him and his D7 prject and layout of Spandaus you can touch and feel), told me that the Germans used a standard setting for rate of fire at 420rpm I believe. That seemed to give the best overall result, and they made it a standard setting for the field instructions. I imagine some pilot may have deviated, but it's a good reference to get the feel for what worked well for the guns. the Lewis was typically set to 700rpm by most pilots, and I'm not sure on the Vickers, although he did confirm that they had a later version that ran at 800rpm, which would imply that earlier versions were run at a slower rate- I would venture to guess around 400, similar to the Spandau, as they were both derived from the original Maxim design.

Having had the pleasure of firing the Spandau,we found that the cotton belts were probably the weakest link for jamming. I imagine ammo was a problem back then too, but we had modern ammo made of today's quality and it all fired fine (you can't find 7.92, so the barrle was bored to fit 8mm rounds). We set the gun at a few rates, and found that a bit over 300 rpm worked best, but then, age probably was an issue for the big return sping, that sets the recoil rate, and thus the rate of fire, and mechanisms.

We were using brand new reproduction belts,and when the gun did jam, it was usually from biting the cotton belt. It bit the belt because the belt was not sewn perfectly on the edges. Boy does that make a big impact. What may look like a slight deviation of path in the seam will almost surly cause a jam. The belt gets caught in the mechanism, and I can totally see why they needed a hammer to unjam it. We had to pull on the cocking lever really hard to free the belt, and, yes, we used a mallet to help sometimes. And that was with the gun out in the open. I imagine in a seated position behind the gun, where one can't get good leverage was what made jams so painful to the pilots.

When the metal link belts came to be, the quality of fire had to greatly improve and jams were probably far less frequent over the cotton belts. To me, the gun was designed too perfectly and needed a precision belt to carry the bullets, but a cotton belt can't really be made consistantly to a high level of precision to be trusted every time. I envision the better pilots probably having personal gun belts they used over and over, once they got one that worked well for them.
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#95 gavagai

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:07

I had a multiplayer session tonight, and this weak-wings bug is widely acknowledged by the multiplayer regulars (many who don't post here at the forum). Here is hoping it is fixed soon!
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#96 Bullets

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:37

But it also happens when only moderatly pulling into a turn,and there wheren't such problems before the last Update. I usually was able to fight on even with my Wings holed like Swiss cheese,but not anymore.^^

So your complaining about the game being made more realistic? sheesh :mrgreen:

Not sure where you see anyone complaining it is more an observation of something that appears to have changed in the last patch, whether it is a good or bad thing probably depends on which end of the MG you are at :x

III/JG11_Tiger

Freind no need to lash out! It was light hearted sarcastic humor! I know noone is complaining I have noticed it too :mrgreen:
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#97 Mogster

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:58

I wonder if this is a combination of the dispersion and fire rate changes and the "improved" contact physics from the last patch. There have been some quite radical code changes in the last few months.
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#98 pcpilot

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:50

Hi pcpilot, as I understand it it does matter: because the top wing
generated more lift it could basically tear itself away from the rest of the plane…

Sorry, but I'd like to learn reliable sources for this theory.
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#99 NattyIced

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 13:54

What holidays…welcoem to the atheistic 21, canetury I has to work all the "holidays" including the 1st of January. There is nothing like holidays in business in 2013 especialy if you run a game that is considered online to play and that forces player to update and does not alow to fall back to a stable build. Now consider what would happen if WoW online would have released a bad build for more than 2 weeks.


Francis?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=XE7FcJqiti0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">
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"Now comes a matter that I want to discuss with you: Our aircraft, quite frankly, are ridiculously inferior to British [aircraft]. The [Sopwith] Triplane and 200hp SPAD, as well as the Sopwith [Camel] single-seater, play with our [Albatros] D.V. In addition to having better-quality aircraft, they have far more [of them]. Our really good fighter pilots are lost in this manner. The D.V is so far surpassed by and so ridiculously inferior to the British single-seaters that one cannot begin to do anything with [the D.V]. But the people at home have brought out no new machines for almost a year, [only] these lousy Albatroses, and have remained stuck with the Albatros D.III [types], in which I fought in the autumn of last year." - Manfred von Richtofen


#100 outlawal2

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 15:21

OK I downloaded the patch last night and flew a mission in the Nieuport and this plane is now nearly useless as the wings fly off with ANY type of maneuvering. Died 4 times in a row with ZERO damage to my plane and the wings came off with minimal manuevering. This is not the same as it was before the patch and I have a hard time believing that these planes were THAT fragile as every pilot we ever had would have died before they reached the combat area… As it is, the Nieuport is worthless…
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#101 gavagai

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 15:25

Which Nieuport?
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#102 outlawal2

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 15:27

Nieuport 13.. (And I have flown this machine quite a bit in the past and it was not THAT fragile before..)
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#103 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 15:34

That sounds like a reliable report to me.
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#104 tvrtko

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 15:38

Nieuport 13..

I've never heard it was a WIP,
but even more - it's released… :o
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#105 outlawal2

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 15:45

Hmmmmm.. I MAY be getting my planes mixed up as I am not at home i am at work… I KNOW it was Nieuport, and it is early in the Du Nicht campaign.. Could have been the Nieuport 11 I was flying and I might be thinking 13 because I was flying with Spad 13s… Sorry guys I can't get any more specific than this since I am at work..

All I know is I was flying a Nieuport and it was fragile as ricepaper and this is NOT typical in my experience before the patch…
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#106 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:03

. I KNOW it was Nieuport, and it is early in the Du Nicht campaign..

you must have a totally different "lawl" version, I simply was not able to fly a french plane in the german campaign….
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#107 outlawal2

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:06

Yeah and I thought it was very strange that the campaign swapped sides right in the middle of the campaign… Now I am wondering if I am having other issues as well.. ??
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#108 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:16

Hey I was only kidding, I think you mean the Nieuport 28, but it is not s fragile, maybe it is the stick-setup, old planes don´t like too harsch g-onset… and if your flightstick is jumpy, it can overstress the plane in dives, but thats a setting issue.
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#109 outlawal2

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:20

But remember that I have flown this plane before and it is MUCH weaker than it has ever been in the past… (REALLY.. I am not making it up!) LOL
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#110 hq_Jorri

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 19:12

Hi pcpilot, as I understand it it does matter: because the top wing
generated more lift it could basically tear itself away from the rest of the plane…

Sorry, but I'd like to learn reliable sources for this theory.

I forgot where I read it, so yeah, I'd like to find the source again as well actually :)
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#111 Waxworks

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 19:27

The article I linked in #59 maybe? Both Wolff and Lothar von Richtofen experienced upper wing failures in 1918, after the reintroduction of the Triplane.

Perhaps what is being confused is the spar quality control issues with the DVIII?
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#112 hq_Jorri

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 20:11

Tried it just now with the SE5a after a dive, and yes, the wings do come off much easier.

I wonder why this was not in the changelog….
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#113 J2_Adam

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 20:20

That sounds like a reliable report to me.

I love your posts, BSR. :lol: :lol: :S!:
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#114 PatAWilson

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 20:41

The article I linked in #59 maybe? Both Wolff and Lothar von Richtofen experienced upper wing failures in 1918, after the reintroduction of the Triplane.

Perhaps what is being confused is the spar quality control issues with the DVIII?

Wolff (Kurt) was dead before 1918, so not him. Lothar's wing failure was helped along by enemy bullets. In his account he claims that his top wing was shot away ("My triplane became a biplane"). Pictures of the crash show that this was a bit of an exaggeration …

http://www.theaerodr...s-triplane.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theaerodr...com/forum/art/3 … plane.html
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#115 outlawal2

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 20:59

That sounds like a reliable report to me.

I love your posts, BSR. :lol: :lol: :S!:


You find something particularly amusing about his backing up my statement?
The wings ARE coming off much too easily since the patch and has made the Nieuport for certain a useless plane…

(And if I incorrectly assumed that BSR was backing me up, please let me know… If that WAS sarcasm, please explain why?)
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#116 hq_Jorri

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 21:05

It was sarcasm, because if you can't get the name of the plane right, that does't help the reliability of your report.
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#117 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 21:08

It was sarcasm because the Nieuport 13 does not exist in RoF.
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#118 J2_Adam

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 21:22

That sounds like a reliable report to me.

I love your posts, BSR. :lol: :lol: :S!:


You find something particularly amusing about his backing up my statement?
The wings ARE coming off much too easily since the patch and has made the Nieuport for certain a useless plane…

(And if I incorrectly assumed that BSR was backing me up, please let me know… If that WAS sarcasm, please explain why?)

Wasn't meant as anything else but just to say I like BSR's posts. They amuse me. Sorry if I caused any problems for ya :S!:
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#119 Waxworks

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 22:36

No, Leutnant Hans Joachim Wolff of Jasta 11 (and the vol.9 ROF schemes)- who was alive and yet to score at the time. "Ltn Hans Joachim Wolff had the leading edge and ribs of his top wing fail in flight on 3 February, but he managed to land Dr I 115/17 successfully and the aircraft was repaired.'

"Lothar's assertion that the entire upper wing had separated was highly exaggerated- numerous photos of the crashed 454/17 clearly show that enough of the main spar and ailerons remained intact to give him some measure of control during his glide down, but the aircraft still crashed heavily. Lothar woke up in hospital with traumatic maxillofacial injuries, but survived to fly and fight again. He was claimed by the observer from one of the Bristols, and also by one of the No 73 Sqn Camel pilots who was firing at him in the same action- how much they actually contributed to his fall cannot be determined.'
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#120 gavagai

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 23:02

What a bizarre film, Jorri! It's called Ace of Aces?

Oh, you deleted your post. :oops:
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