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Detail.DDS experiment.


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#1 Feathered_IV

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 14:11

Image

Image

More noisy ground noise. It turns out this Detail.dds texture governs the noise overlay you see in the lanscape textures. The default landscape (below) is fairly smooth, even with textures set to High, so I thought I'd try to give it a bit more depth.


Image


Included an extra-coarse one that works nicely with winter textures too!

Image

Have a look and see what you think. Get your gimp out if you feel so inclined and have a crack at it yourself. :S!:


http://www.mediafire...xixo1y3kf2luuwk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mediafire...xixo1y3kf2luuwk
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#2 J5_G.D

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 14:37

looks real !!!
great work …
did you do it only with gimp ?

want it for my sweet FX settings :)

greetings
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#3 realCallahan

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 15:08

WOW your mods are amaaaaaazing! :)
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#4 J.j.

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 15:41

I like the effect, especially in the summer map. But, especially for the winter map (and a bit too for the summer one), in my opinion it'll look better if you reduce the noise a little. A little more is great,but too much ruins the effect.
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#5 AnKor85

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 16:49

Very interesting.
The winter map may be a bit too much, but mostly because the noise is all over the place. I would loved it if it was more "localized", like more noise near towns, roads, etc, but I understand that it is not possible.

Also, winter map shows a bad side effect when looking from the ground level - the ground bumpiness has increased together with the noise and the snow looks very strange now. Not tested on summer one.
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#6 O_WolfPac

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 17:32

nice idea , would like to see the difference if you did the technic so its 50% greater of standard and 50% less than your example that might solve the issue Ankor mentions

Nice idea all the same.
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#7 Panthercules

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:26

Interesting find - is it the same detail.dds file for all the different maps/subfolders, or is there a separate detail.dds file to start with for each map/subfolder?

[EDIT] - I hope/assume it must be different files for the different maps. I just ran some tests using the same detail.dds file for both the summer map and the Channel map (one I had tweaked myself in PhotoShop to add 10% noise) - the results looked pretty good, along the lines of the OP, on the career mission I flew on the summer map. BUT, it didn't work very well on the Channel map - I got a really distinct line/break between the normal land textures and the textures along the tops of the cliffs outside Dover (very noticeable and bad-looking).

So, I guess I'll look around for some additional detail.dds files to experiment with. It's still interesting, in that you can apparently put the altered file in the summer subfolder (where it seems to work rather well) and it won't affect the other maps unless/until you put an altered file in those other subfolders.

Even on the summer map, I noticed a slight increase in the visibility of repeated patterns in some of the ground textures (when viewed at low altitude, as on takeoff) when using the altered file - guess I'll try toning down the noise level just a bit and see if that helps reduce that effect.
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#8 Feathered_IV

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 23:13

Thanks guys, you are very encouraging. :S!:

With the winter maps, I'd suggest copying the Detail.dds from either the Landscape or Channel_ landscape folder and pasting it into the winter ones, overwriting the extra coarse files. That way the effect can be toned down considerably over snow.

The effect was really an experiment to identify some of the functions of certain files in the map structure. I didn't think it would be possible to satisfy every taste, especially with my limited photoshop experience. The result however seemed to work for me though, so I though I'd share it. I'd certainly encourage others to have a go too. Thanks to the on/off nature of mods, they hurt no one and can be another way to personalise your RoF experience.
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#9 Panthercules

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 23:42

Aha - turns out there are separate "detail.dds" files for the Channel and Autumn maps (and one other, which kinda looks like the summer one - haven't found one labeled specifically as for Winter, so maybe it's the same as the Summer/generic one - not sure). Will have to try tweaking those other files as well now.

[EDIT] - found a Winter map file, though it is "detail.tga" rather than .dds - gonna try that one as well, just for grins
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#10 Feathered_IV

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 23:56

Ah no, they aren't specifically listed as winter, but they are in the winter map folders.
The verdun and lake summer maps read the detail.dds in the main Landscape folder (frontline map). The channel map has its own dedicated detail.dds, while the Verdun and lake winter and autumn maps use the dds in the Landscape_winter and Landscape_autumn folders respectively.

Good luck experimenting. If you can extract the original detail.dds and have a look at its rgb layers, you'll notice that each are different noise textures for ground level, aerial view and a sort of high alt noise or something. Very clever bit of optimisation from the devs there. The more artistically inclined could no doubt do wonders with it. :)
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#11 Feathered_IV

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 23:58

Oops. Maybe I saved the winter one as the wrong file type. So used to Il-2 modding that saving as tga's are second nature.
Edit, just checked the download. No tga is in there. Did you make one yourself maybe? :?
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#12 Panthercules

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 00:01

Oops. Maybe I saved the winter one as the wrong file type. So used to Il-2 modding that saving as tga's are second nature.

Nah - it wasn't your file - it was the one I unpacked from the RoF .gtp file. For some reason, it's a TGA file instead of a DDS file.
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#13 Panthercules

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 00:03

If you can extract the original detail.dds and have a look at its rgb layers, you'll notice that each are different noise textures for ground level, aerial view and a sort of high alt noise or something. Very clever bit of optimisation from the devs there. The more artistically inclined could no doubt do wonders with it. :)

Hmm - interesting info - hadn't gotten to that level of inspection yet. Even more to play with :)

Thanks!
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#14 Feathered_IV

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 00:12

Phew! :)

It's funny with the 1.29 release. There are a lot of big tga files for tree textures and the like scattered among the channel map folders. I'm not sure if they are being read by the game or if someone just forgot to take them out of the final compile. They are identical to the dds tree textures, but four times the size.

You'll like those rgb layers. Seems like the devs use them and the alpha channels a lot to do some very clever things.
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#15 Jason_Williams

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 00:20

:S!:

Jason
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#16 MarcoRossolini

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 00:56

Tried it, loved it, nuff said. :D

:S!:
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#17 Jason_Williams

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:18

More pics please. I like when people experiment.

Jason
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#18 puffalott

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:22

after i download where do i put the files?
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#19 Feathered_IV

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:36

Nice to get the nod from the boss himself!

I'll post some more shots later when I'm done with work for the day. I hope others will do the same. Even shots of things that don't work would be just as instructive as things that do at this stage. There is still a long way to go in understanding how it all goes together.

Puffalot, if you un pack the download you can drop the data folder into your RoF main directory and you'll be fine. It does not overwrite any game files if you do so. You can delete the detail.dds files to uninstall. If you use JSGME, just unpack and put in your mods folder and activate using the JSGME interface. ;)
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#20 Panthercules

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:13

Been having a lot of fun playing around with this. Haven't been able to crack the code for making the effect look good from more than about 15 feet away from your plane (sitting on the ground) witjhout making it look a bit weird right next to your plane, but I've got a set now I'm playing with where I think the improvements are worth that slight trade off. I still haven't figured out how to make sense out of the various channels - tried a few things but didn't really accomplish anything noticeable yet.

I think this is gonna be like all that experimentation with the SweetFX settings - there's so much interplay between these effects and my SweetFX settings and other video/graphics options that I suspect there won't be any sort of "one size fits all" result here, but it's fun to play with anyway.

Thanks for bringing this up!
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#21 AnKor85

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:39

If you look into textures.ini file which comes with each map it contains following lines:

DetailsScale0=0.0015625
DetailsScale1=0.0625

These may be somehow related to the visible size of details texture.
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#22 Feathered_IV

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:23

I noticed that too. I noticed in the Shaders folder (while trying to figure out how to enable Normal.bmp textures to the landscape) there are some other text files that also make reference to texture scaling and the height of the parallax shaders. Might give some interesting results to tweak these settings.
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#23 Feathered_IV

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 13:16

PS: The aircraft, trees and flags etc use these "Normals" to give bump-mapping effects. Does anyone know how I might be able to get the landscape textures to do the same thing?

It would be the RoF equivalent to the discovery of penicillin if it could be figured out. :?

Image
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#24 O_WolfPac

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 13:51

Feathered_IV
its already present , but the ungtp does not unpack the files but it unpacks the text reference for the normal map bmp files
unpack the landscape folder and look in the text files you will see references to normal bmp files

they do work and you will see shading of the shape you have made on the landscape , i was playing with it with trench lines awhile ago.
You will like the results

Great thread by the way always enjoy these experimenting posts
Ive been trying to increase scale of detail of the dds files from 512x 512 to 2048 x 2048 so the base texture has more detail upon it so substrate texturing can compliment better.
Not worked it out yet but one day a thread like this might be the key
well done
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#25 puffalott

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:01

Thanks Feathered i love it looks very good :S!:
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#26 hq_Jorri

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:46

PS: The aircraft, trees and flags etc use these "Normals" to give bump-mapping effects. Does anyone know how I might be able to get the landscape textures to do the same thing?

It would be the RoF equivalent to the discovery of penicillin if it could be figured out. :?

Not just for villages - for no man's land also I think :)
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#27 realCallahan

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 17:15

What about more pictures here F.?
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#28 Feathered_IV

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:23

Feathered_IV
its already present , but the ungtp does not unpack the files but it unpacks the text reference for the normal map bmp files
unpack the landscape folder and look in the text files you will see references to normal bmp files

they do work and you will see shading of the shape you have made on the landscape , i was playing with it with trench lines awhile ago.
You will like the results

Great thread by the way always enjoy these experimenting posts
Ive been trying to increase scale of detail of the dds files from 512x 512 to 2048 x 2048 so the base texture has more detail upon it so substrate texturing can compliment better.
Not worked it out yet but one day a thread like this might be the key
well done

Thanks for the tip! I'll have another try this evening. If the default settings already allow Normals to be read along with the basic landscape textures, that is great news. The trick will be working out how they are named. Other normals have a _b or _nm extension at the end of the file name, but those don't seem to work in this case. If anyone knows and wants to put me out of my misery, that would be great. In the meantime ill keep looking.

Sorry Lehman, I wasn't able to get any shots last night. I took a whole bunch of a fight around Arras, and was dismayed to see that they did not save. It seems the sweetFX print screen key does not always work. I'll have another go though and post the results. :S!:
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#29 Laser

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:37

If i remember correctly, Rise of Flight has the print screen button by default set to take screenshots, without the need for external software - they would be saved to the main installation folder, or the data/ folder.

BTW i really like the noised landscape. Can the noise be set up differently for each landscape texture part? If so, it would be worthy to create something like this:

landscape texture reader -> infer noise type to apply on *that* landscape subzone -> generate specific noise for each type of landscape area
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#30 Feathered_IV

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:22

Cheers laser. The default printscreen button does not record the SweetFX overlay effects, so I don't use it as much anymore.
As far as I can tell, the detail.dds noise effect is able to be tailored to any given map, but not to specific textures.
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#31 O_WolfPac

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:13

hi Feathered_IV

i wish i could kick up my gaming pc to answer this properly but its not possible but soon i hope bloomin pc got damaged travelling from NZ - to - UK

I would unpack gtp3 i think but it might be number gtp1 ,,,find the "landscape" folder and unpacked
open and look for textures.ini in older versions the txt was _nm extension i havent played with it for many patches but below that in the text it has file names listed so you can use those to rename your bmp to suit the same tile names
i have been keeping old versions of the sim i think it was number 16 version actually allowed the _NM_Bmp files to be seen in there own NM_Mask folder , 16 sticks in my head as something else was visible then on that patch but i forget with time, it was awhile ago now :P but with every patch things appear and disappear :)
Always good to save a copy of the gtp files and rename the folder to the version patch for later use , you never know when it will come in handy.
When i get my gaming pc running i will have a look and see if i can find a bmp file for you if you havent got it working by then.

basically use the above example bmp normal map and placed the file in the same place and same file name as the one listed in the text ini list it will work and you will see with (modes on) from a distance above or long distance view ,, close up it will not be so easy to see.

this used to work , but i dont know if its changed in recent patches ,since we did this along time ago, alot has changed in the tiles and how they work and are controlled this worked way before the alpha alterations to allow different textures to red blue green channels.
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#32 Feathered_IV

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 21:38

Thanks for the hints. I found the textures.ini didn't have any references to Normals, but the height.ini in the Landscape folder had "Normal ext= .dds" "Normals prfx= nm_" and "Normals=Graphics/Landscape/Nmap"

Aha! I thought make the normal, save as a dds and put the nm_ at the start of the file name, then bung them in a folder called Nmap and I'm good to go…
Tried it and no joy. I tried the file extension at front and back of the name. Saved as dds, bmp and tga for good measure. Tried with and without alpha channels. Put the files in any other number of locations and naming variations but still can't get them to stick. I'll have another crack at it tonight.

One funny thing I noticed, the landscape folder has all the textures in there as dds files. But the textures.ini has them all listed as tga's. Weird!
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#33 Laser

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 22:01

I think sometime in the previous patches, the devs moved (almost?) exclusively to the .dds format for everything (even the skin previews …), in order to push as much textures in video card memory, as dds = compressed format. I may be wrong of course, but i think, at least, that dds is preferred, even if not exclusive.
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#34 Jason_Williams

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:20

Anyone tried this with Difis's map yet?

Jason
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#35 O_Caldwell

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:22

Anyone tried this with Difis's map yet?

Jason


Yes, works like a charm.


Image


Image
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#36 Feathered_IV

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:07

Sweet!

Here's some more of the views from the Western front. Buildings seem to sit more naturally against the landscape, which makes makes it a little nicer flying over built up areas.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Bit of Autumn with Fubar's winter trees.

Image

Image

And what can go wrong when experimenting with the texture.ini
At least it shows how much area the detail.dds covers… :P
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#37 SYN_Vander

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:04

Might be interesting to have an early spring with Fubar's winter trees?

There are more leaves on trees in autumn then in (early) spring, at least in Northern France :)
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#38 O_WolfPac

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 17:23

O_Caldwell :) always playing with graphics and settings :) Good on you , looks good on DifiS Map

Feathered_IVb im confident it was a specially names folder something like Mask_MN or MN_Mask and inside was BMP files or normal map
i did notice that the normal bmp files were same size as the mask files and same amounts so detail was on but could be better but when i get back to my gaming pc i will try and get it running enough to look which version allowed the files to be visible but i dont know if it still works that way now a days could of changed totally
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#39 Feathered_IV

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 21:27

Hi Wolfpac. I was able to find the folders you mentioned. I reinstalled my disk of rof version 1 and extracted the GTP files to take a look. There is the Mask folder, which contains more than 100 bmp images. Black ones with areas picked out in primary colours. Presumably these are grids of the landscape and work a bit like the map_T in the Il-2 series.

The other folder was the Nmap one, which has all the Normals for the early landscape. I have been hoping to map my new normals to the actual ground textures in the Landscapequalitytextures.folder, but still have not been successful. The Nmap ones all seem to support the bmp's in the Mask folder, but that function appears to be disabled.

I was able to add my new normals of the Arras area to the list of textures used in the texture.ini and they loaded, but took the place of the original coloured textures without displaying and bump map effect. Ho hum!
The height.ini also appears to have something to do with all this too, but I'll need to investigate further. Jason, if you're still reading this, would it be possible to ask the dev team if the game allows one to add those blue Normals maps to the actual landscape textures? I'm perfectly happy to do the work, but if I'm on a fool's errand it would be nice to know so I could stop torturing myself and move on to other stuff. The effect I was trying to get was the same as one sees in Cliffs of Dover, where the the landscape textures have that 3D appearance. Any scraps of information are most welcome!

Cheers, F-IV
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#40 O_WolfPac

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:31

in height ini
if you added to the text
normals=manual
normals_prefix=graphics\landscape\NMap\nm_
normals_ext=.dds


then in the textures ini added a few extra lines under lets say the city text content that is something like

; ————Normals————-
[textures_NMap]

014 000 255 =graphics\landscape\NMap\nm_Toul01.dds
015 000 255 =graphics\landscape\NMap\nm_Toul02.dds
016 000 255 =graphics\landscape\NMap\nm_Toul03.dds
017 000 255 =graphics\landscape\NMap\nm_Toul04.dds

if you put your normals you make in a folder called NMap located @ yourdrive:\Program Files (x86)\Rise of Flight\data\graphics\LANDSCAPE\NMap folder

name the normal files the same file names and dds format
example: nm_Toul01.dds

in theory :) with tongue n cheek ,it should see them
i did noticed that the bmp files i used to play with are now dds files but i cant see that being an issue as its basically the same just a different graphics file format.

The numbers 014 000 255 are a sort of a grid colour location connected to other files it will look for the colour code of the line then place the graphics file at that location on the actual map IN the editor ONLY

this is all theory i have not actually tried this as my pc has arrived but got broke in transit from New Zealand - to - UK im on a laptop till its fixed and most of all my ROF is on the harddrives of the pc but i did have some old patch versions on a external drive which is how i come up with the theory , hope it works becuase i do like the idea its something that would compliment a powerful but under utilised landscape engine.
In the editor goto Toul its a small village / Town and look to see if it works ,i dont know if you will see the normals working close range ground level but from a distance if this works ,you will see and i can guide you on how to add normals then to any area on the map you wanted to compliment with this style of improvement.

Fingers crossed it works

Let me know please :)

ps.
The only common thing with IL-2 and ROF regarding landscape is you fly over it.
Mask folder is just for some layers the shadow texture under a forest the river texture under the water nomans-land crater texture that sort of thing basically in theory you could add other primary for dirt on side of roads or snow or rock scree on mountain tops , just texture layers , the mask files are not the key its the texture ini file and colour code process that opened my eyes to the potential in the future.
ROF map making is far greater control and much more layers per tile with only the icing of the cake being used at present.
I only wish gaming computers would future warp 10 years ahead regarding speeds, CPU and Ram so we can use 10% of whats possible , till then we compromise and dream.

Best Regards
Tony
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