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Lightvessels... and naval galore


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#1 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 15:19

After the release of the channel map and reading the spider web, I am somehow convinced we DO need lightvessels.

As I always had soft spot for the specially seaworth constructed lightvessels, I will see what we can dig up on them and other navigation aids as well as general semanship and practice that might improve the channel map.. (here I am thinking for instance that cargovessels in possibly mined water would not roam about in a V-formation, but run line astern. Or that the fronside of the conning tower on the german sub would NEVER been left open in the north sea…) but back to the lightvessels..
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#2 SYN_Vander

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 15:22

Well here is my first attempt by using creative object placing:

Attached File  2012_12_28__11_21_27.jpg   109.36KB   1133 downloads

Of course we need the real stuff, in bright colours and with the name in capitals on the ship? Will be a great project for a 3d mod.

Here is an interesting map I found (http://www.naval-history.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.naval-history.net):

Attached File  Map24NorthSeaSandbanks.GIF   26.36KB   1132 downloads
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#3 AndyJWest

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 15:32

Nice idea, Dr. Zebra, and nice map Vander. :S!:

According to Wikipedia, "Stations themselves were occasionally changed, especially during wartime, when lights were only displayed in response to specific shipping needs" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightvessels_in_the_United_Kingdom) This makes sense really, as a stationary vessel with a ruddy great flashing light is a rather obvious target…
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#4 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 15:34

period lightships at a quick glance so far:

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#5 HotTom

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:03

Great finds, Vander and Z!

The light ships will be essential for navigating!

:S!:

HT
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#6 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:16

Nice idea, Dr. Zebra, and nice map Vander. :S!:

According to Wikipedia, "Stations themselves were occasionally changed, especially during wartime, when lights were only displayed in response to specific shipping needs" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightvessels_in_the_United_Kingdom) This makes sense really, as a stationary vessel with a ruddy great flashing light is a rather obvious target…

I may be wrong, but I think at least in World War One, the british shifted some navigational aids for deception, but in general, lightships and buyos were not targeted because of their usefullness for both sides. Raids for gathering codebraking info and so on was mostly WW2, I think. In the old days even for mining approaches, they needed precise postions, which could best be optained by crossbearings to shore or navigational aids (hence the shifting), and after the mining they would want the trafik to cross there, so the lightvessels had a rather uneventful war. The Dutch ones also were neutral and thus used by all sides.
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#7 hq_Jorri

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:19

Great finds, Vander and Z!

The light ships will be essential for navigating!

:S!:

HT

Agreed they would be great to have!
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#8 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:41

I think Vander is really doing great there with that stop gap. It is not too easy to find the old lightvessels, I think they were mostly smaller ones, except for Elbe 3 and Lightvessel 16 (it was at spurn station in ww1, albeit heavly altered today) there seem to be very few surviors. LV78 Calshot Spit is also another surving one

so far I´ve found one incident of a lightship beeing attacked in ww1, but that was in america:

-1918 Aug 6, LV 71 reported by radio the presence of a German submarine which had sunk a passing freighter. Message was intercepted by the submarine U-104, and after giving the crew opportunity to abandon ship in the boats, LV 71 was sunk by surface gunfire.

apparently there was a part in the Hague convention that lighthouses and navigation instaltions should not be attacked as long as they did not provide assistance to military operations.

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#9 =III=Flav

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:21

These would be fantastic, an essential edition!
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#10 Bulkhead

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 13:27

Very nice work. Is it a way to turn the lights on? In general there is no light in any lighthouse or anything else
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#11 Dunkers

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 14:44

Agreed, they would be good to have. I did suggest it, but heard nothing.

:cheers:
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#12 SYN_Vander

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:53

Very nice work. Is it a way to turn the lights on? In general there is no light in any lighthouse or anything else

We only have 'camp fire' as object we can place. I tried it, but the problem is that there is smoke emitting from the fire, so then it seems as if the ship itself is on fire! :)

We need to ask the devs to insert a simple light objects we can place anywhere on the map, just as with the camp fire object.
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#13 Gunsmith86

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 17:23

Here are many good pictures to find.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29415369@N05/sets/72157607228076166/detail/
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#14 Bulkhead

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 21:20

Here is a few shots from Silent Hunter 4 that I think looks good.

Attached File  lighthouse.jpg   249.81KB   435 downloads
Maybe a little too bright.
Attached File  Lighthouse_high_ingame_4.jpg   40.04KB   435 downloads
Maybe a little too weak.
Attached File  10-portbinoc.jpg   11.4KB   435 downloads
Looks good from a distance.

What about the lights used as searchlights on the ground???

I will try for sure to put searchlight inside a lighthouse..
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#15 SYN_Vander

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 15:09

Question: How could you tell from a distance which light vessel you were looking at? Was it a stationary light or would it blink -in a code perhaps?
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#16 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 16:59

That is an interesting question, I gotta look it up a bit. I know that identification marks for daytime was in form of big letters and those large symbol orbs, but by just looking through pictures, i would assume most of the vessel at the time may have used a white all-aroung light, some might have not even carried fresnel-lenses, but I have no definitve sources on that right now. At least some of the more elaborate ones may have had allready rotating fresnel-lenses (and as such beams). But I think the blink codes and colored sectors for approaches might have been introduced later.
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#17 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 18:05

I think I might have been wrong there. At least in the US, at the time of WW1 all lights were equiped with fresnel-lenses and weight based rotation-mechanics were a comonplace by then. Albeit I have not found anything on the british Lightvessels and their characteristics (the identifable timing of beams and color coding) at that time.
However, I am quite a bit amazed about technology, allready in 1907 there was an automated daylight switch called "sun valve"…
http://www.aga.com/w...istory_SunValve" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.aga.com/w...eb2000/com/WPPc … y_SunValve


Some other bits and pieces I´ve found:

The east godwin lightships was one of the first to use a marconi wireless station in 1898
http://www.shipstamp....php?f=2&t=5689" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.shipstamp....uk/forum/viewt … f=2&t=5689
so it could be feasible to design missions where a distress call or report on shipping give you a clue.

About the lightship at gull station:
In 1860 the old Gull was replaced by another lightship showing a one flash signal, 38 feet above sea level with a visibility of 10 miles. She too carried a fog gong and was one of the first lightships to carry a revolving light operated by clockwork.
http://www.mycetes.c.../a/page162.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mycetes.c.../a/page162.html
images of its successor, also a ww1 era ship in a sad state:
http://www.mycetes.c.../a/page143.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mycetes.c.../a/page143.html
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#18 Bulkhead

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 20:36

Question: How could you tell from a distance which light vessel you were looking at? Was it a stationary light or would it blink -in a code perhaps?
If they all look the same is better than nothing. To me it would be to get a more accurate fix on my position. Flying over the water and not sure exactly where I'm at but roughly. The lightship would be a nice confirmation to position and correct my heading from there.

Is it possible to place a searchlight in a lighthouse? Command it to search in horizontal circles and setting search radius to 2 meter or something?? (Haven't been able to try it because been away the whole week)
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#19 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 18:27

^^while I somewhat agree, I think actually making placeable light sources (I mean you could use a lot of code from the flares for instance, giving it a fixed loc and unlimited burntime with no smoketrail) should be available at a good work-to-effect ratio.

However, for me as boating fan, I would truely love different characteristics of navigational lights at sea, it would give a tremendous athmosphere.
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#20 Raine

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 20:19

Lightvessels had distinctive flashes, it seems. The following is a short cut and paste from an online excert from Ships and Shipping, ca. 1903.


East Coast of England

TONGUE LIGHTVESSEL. — Group flash red and white every min., visible 11 miles. Red hull. Ball at masthead.

NORE LIGHTVESSEL. — White rev. every min., visible 10 miles. Red hull. Ball at masthead.

MOUSE LIGHTVESSEL. — Green rev. every 20 sec., visible 11 miles. Red hull. Ball at masthead.
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#21 SYN_Vander

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 22:33

Thanks Raine!

Not sure if we'll ever get a rotating light, but if we had a light object we could at least turn it on/off in distinctive patterns so this information comes in handy!
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#22 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 23:42

that would be great.. I don´t know but there is just some distinct feeling when you see a blippin light over the horizon at night, at sea…
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#23 Bulkhead

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:16

I can't find the searchlights as objects. Any idea?
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