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#1 SYN_Vander

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:34

Currently we have a number of trench / battlefield objects in the game.

Many people won't even know this as they are hardly ever used. They are not static objects, but vehicles as they have moving gun turrets etc. However this means we can only use a couple of them as they have an impact on performance and they add up to the total of vehicles you can use in a mission.
Another issue is that they are quite small objects and as such are hard to notice unless you are very close.

Attached File  battlefield objects.jpg   94.33KB   2426 downloads

The goal of this project is to build a number of new trench/battlefield STATIC objects to populate the front line. The objects will be based on the same texture(s) as the objects already in the game. This will avoid extra memory problems due to new textures.
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#2 SYN_Vander

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:34

This post will collect photo's and diagrams of generic objects for the battlefield. If you have anything to add, please make a post in this thread.
Remember, I am looking for GENERIC objects. So pictures of Fort Douaumont etc. will not go here, but can be added to the general objects list: List of possible static objects

Trenches:
http://www.worldwar1.../btw/btw091.gif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.worldwar1.../btw/btw091.gif
http://upload.wikime...anuary1918.jpeg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://upload.wikime...org/wikipedia/c … y1918.jpeg
http://battlefields1.../product001.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://battlefields1.../product001.htm
http://www.britishem...enchdiagram.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.britishem....co.uk/boniface … iagram.jpg
http://www.ww1battle.../yorkshire.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ww1battle...ds.co.uk/flande … shire.html
http://www.greatwarc...c_Dodengang.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.greatwarc...nary.be/sites/d … engang.JPG
http://www.greatwarc...1%20%283%29.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.greatwarc...nary.be/sites/d … 3%2529.jpg

http://upload.wikime..._Ypres_1917.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://upload.wikime...org/wikipedia/c … s_1917.jpg

Ammo dump:
http://i250.photobuc...ormal_00863.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://i250.photobuc...com/albums/gg24 … _00863.jpg
http://i250.photobuc...l22/gifgas1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://i250.photobuc...com/albums/gg24 … ifgas1.jpg
http://www.wholesale...DDD0918480A.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.wholesale...DDD0918480A.jpg
http://www.wholesale...DDD0918480B.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.wholesale...DDD0918480B.jpg
http://www.keepmilit....php?&CatID=243" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.keepmilit...useum.org/somme … &CatID=243
http://www.keepmilit...nt/rwg05070.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.keepmilit...useum.org/image … g05070.jpg
http://www.zeno.org/.../I/MPK01534.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.zeno.org/...postkarten.imag … K01534.jpg

Generic forts/fortification:
http://riseofflight....hp?id=34028&t=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">download/file.php?id=34028&t=1
http://riseofflight....hp?id=34027&t=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">download/file.php?id=34027&t=1
http://riseofflight....hp?id=34469&t=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">download/file.php?id=34469&t=1
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#3 SYN_Vander

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:34

An ultra-quick proof-of-concept. This simple trench system uses RoF texture. It sits on top of the terrain. Machine gunners can shoot over the top of the trench. The texture is not as good as I had hoped. There is no repetitive texture for sandbags and such, therefore it needs more polys to look right. I might go for a new texture after all….

Attached File  trench01.jpg   267.92KB   2407 downloads

Attached File  trench02.jpg   202.69KB   2407 downloads

Attached File  trench03.jpg   205.8KB   2406 downloads

EDIT: using the destroyed textures, it blends a bit better with the terrain…

Attached File  trench04.jpg   239.36KB   2403 downloads

Attached File  trench05.jpg   246.87KB   2403 downloads
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#4 =Fifi=

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:45

Image

Image

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#5 Avimimus

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 14:26

We don't have the computer power to model the whole trench network.

However it should be possible to model points of interest. Things like mortor positions, hill-tops, ammunition dumps and strongpoints.

- The idea would be to have the 3d object merge into the existing trench line textures (appearing to rise slightly above the surrounding ground).

- They would provide points of interest and targets to attack along the trench system
(ie. the player could attack strong-point objects, rather than having to model targets all along the front).

Image

https://www.google.c...yHaaj6wGE6YGIBA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.google.c...arch?client=ope … 6wGE6YGIBA
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#6 Avimimus

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 14:28

It seems like the developers once thought of such an idea!

There is still the old 3-D models from the early days Sky of Knight?
Image
Image

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#7 SYN_Vander

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 14:48

We don't have the computer power to model the whole trench network.

However it should be possible to model points of interest. Things like mortor positions, hill-tops, ammunition dumps and strongpoints.

- The idea would be to have the 3d object merge into the existing trench line textures (appearing to rise slightly above the surrounding ground).

- They would provide points of interest and targets to attack along the trench system
(ie. the player could attack strong-point objects, rather than having to model targets all along the front).

That's my idea as well. Only create strong points above the ground. Larger models that include some trenches, bunkers, MG nests which will blend in well with the no-mans land terrain texture.
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#8 Gunsmith86

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 16:45

Image

Image

Image

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Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Image
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Image
Image
Image
Image
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#9 SYN_Vander

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:17

WIP section updated (third post).
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#10 =Fifi=

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:38

WIP section updated (third post).

:o Trenches 3D?? Fantastic!! No perf impact?
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#11 Avimimus

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 22:38

WIP section updated (third post).

Looks great (with the weathering)!

One possibility for the edges:
- The trench looks like it goes into a tunnel
- A second trench object exist for a tunnel opening (some distance away).

This gives a good looking way to terminate trenches in areas where they don't merge with the existing trench textures. It also prevents having to use several different types of end pieces.
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#12 zachanscom

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 23:25

just use the destroyed texture as default(maybe introduce more tan and brown colors to match the terrain) and make a damage model with craters or scattered sandbags.
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#13 Branwell

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 23:29

WIP section updated (third post).

Looks great (with the weathering)!

One possibility for the edges:
- The trench looks like it goes into a tunnel
- A second trench object exist for a tunnel opening (some distance away).

This gives a good looking way to terminate trenches in areas where they don't merge with the existing trench textures. It also prevents having to use several different types of end pieces.

Looks good Vander :)

I don't know anything about constructing terrain like this, so please forgive me if this is a dumb question:

How easy would it be to make more variety in the trench line? Over a long distance, the trenches are far too uniform. Would it be possible, using the same textures to reduce CPU loading, to have for example three different trench stretches, e.g. one bulging slightly forwards, one bulging backwards and a level one with a communications trench leading to the rear, that when the three types are applied semi-randomly along the length of the front would give more of a random appearance?

You could have a couple of forward bulging sections, then a comms trench, then another forward one, joining onto a rearward bulge, then two communications trench sections etc..

Or is that all too much like hard work?!
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#14 SYN_Vander

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:32

WIP section updated (third post).

Looks great (with the weathering)!

One possibility for the edges:
- The trench looks like it goes into a tunnel
- A second trench object exist for a tunnel opening (some distance away).

This gives a good looking way to terminate trenches in areas where they don't merge with the existing trench textures. It also prevents having to use several different types of end pieces.

Looks good Vander :)

I don't know anything about constructing terrain like this, so please forgive me if this is a dumb question:

How easy would it be to make more variety in the trench line? Over a long distance, the trenches are far too uniform. Would it be possible, using the same textures to reduce CPU loading, to have for example three different trench stretches, e.g. one bulging slightly forwards, one bulging backwards and a level one with a communications trench leading to the rear, that when the three types are applied semi-randomly along the length of the front would give more of a random appearance?

You could have a couple of forward bulging sections, then a comms trench, then another forward one, joining onto a rearward bulge, then two communications trench sections etc..

Or is that all too much like hard work?!

Hi Branwell. It's not a dumb question, but re-doing the trench textures is out of scope of this project. I am creating 3d objects to add to no-mans land so it will look a bit less "empty". These will be positioned here and there along the trench lines, hopefully blending in. Since they will be static objects there can be a lot of them, but even then you can't cover all the current trench lines.
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#15 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 14:19

Very good project Vander!
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#16 JimmyBlonde

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 18:06

Can the devs alter the height map be to make the existing trenches actual trenches? I know that would mean a big update since the entire map would be changed but it would save on performace by reducig the number of 3D objects required to make a convincing trench network.

If this could be done then could objects (sandbag parapets, MG nests, wire barricades, pill-boxes, duckboards etc) be scripted to spawn/despawn within certain (range from player based) parameters?
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#17 Rama

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 21:31

Can the devs alter the height map be to make the existing trenches actual trenches?
No, it's not possible.
The height map is 50m resolution, it can't be adapted to figure trenches. 3D Trenches should be 3D objects, there's no other way.
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#18 AnKor85

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:17

By the way, Rama, while I know that height map resolution is not enough for trenches (and this is also why rivers don't have steep banks), the question left me thinking - how devs are going to make the Cliffs of Dover on the Channel map?
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#19 MarcoRossolini

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:46

Can the devs alter the height map be to make the existing trenches actual trenches?
No, it's not possible.
The height map is 50m resolution, it can't be adapted to figure trenches. 3D Trenches should be 3D objects, there's no other way.


Also, in many areas of flanders with a relatively high watertables, the trenches did become basically breastworks raised above the rest of the ground.
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#20 Gadfly21

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:23

By the way, Rama, while I know that height map resolution is not enough for trenches (and this is also why rivers don't have steep banks), the question left me thinking - how devs are going to make the Cliffs of Dover on the Channel map?

I would love to get a glimpse of those on the new map :D if it's not possible to create the cliffs from an elevation map, it would be possible to add them as separate 3D objects sitting on what would otherwise be a shallow slope. This would be similar to the cliff static objects in Il-2 1946.
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#21 Avimimus

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 16:13

Any news on the progress of this awesomeness?
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#22 SYN_Vander

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 16:29

I'm finishing airfield stuff first. Now I'm slowly moving to trench stuff but still a looong way to go…

Something I'm working on as well. Not sure if this will work as static scenery, but we can at least try:

Attached File  transport_01.jpg   54.45KB   523 downloads
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#23 LordNeuro_Srb

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 16:46

Amezing work SYN_Vander. U doing fantastic job for rof. Any chance there u cann add same solders with the transport cart. Shore would loke good to see same solders colons iven the small 1 with horse and carts on the rods. But iven like thise u r making the break tru for imersion in rof.
:S!:
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#24 HotTom

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 17:41

An amazing project, Vander!

Thanks for all the hard work and long hours!

:S!:

HT
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#25 hq_Jorri

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 19:53

Thanks for the great work.

I hope modelers as well as 777 will be critical enough to not just add stuff for the sake of it, and we won't see compromises added to the game such as static living beings
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#26 SYN_Vander

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 20:35

This is all just having fun and experimenting with 3d models. Nothing that has been shown is sure to make it into the game. Just be patient a little longer…
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#27 hq_Jorri

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 20:42

I know, sorry if I sounded negative. The ROF community is not very large and to be honest, there is not that much experienced talent here. Your efforts are really appreciated and very valuable to every WWI aviation sim enthusiast :)
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#28 zachanscom

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 04:55

Thanks for the great work.

I hope modelers as well as 777 will be critical enough to not just add stuff for the sake of it, and we won't see compromises added to the game such as static living beings

there's plenty of compromises already, adding a living being that isn't fully animated is not a big deal. i prefer it to an empty landscape.
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#29 Tex2002

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:52

What a wonderful work in progress!

I love those pictures you are using for research too.
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#30 O_WolfPac

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:36

Ankor :) "Quoted"

By the way, Rama, while I know that height map resolution is not enough for trenches (and this is also why rivers don't have steep banks), the question left me thinking - how devs are going to make the Cliffs of Dover on the Channel map? ( end Quote )

Answer

Cliffs are very easy to achieve

Only thing a height elevation can not do is a overhanging cliff , that would need a static object placed on the edge of the cliff to lure the eye into thinking its part of the landscape

River banks can be done but the river has to be a wide enough river to cater for the cliff or steep banks of the river.

SYN_Vander

Well done :) looks like your having fun , did you find the answer to distance lod for detail objects
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#31 SYN_Vander

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:32

Nope, still don't know how to handle LODs. The devs have been silent for a long time now, no help with the SDK :(. Maybe it just doesn't work with static objects, only with vehicles.

In the mean time, I have been working on animations in RoF and it does look very promising, here is a quick video: :D




:S!:
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#32 AnKor85

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:37

Oh… Vander, you did it. That's just brilliant! :)
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#33 89

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:47

THis is brilliant!!! Is it also the beginning of a new epoch- animated people on aerodromes giving true feeling to size of objects in RoF world? :) WoW WOW WOW!
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#34 BH_Vfw_Klaue

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:10

S! SYN_Vander very nice Thanks for your work and everybody else trying to better this sim.
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#35 J5_Wolf

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:20

Great Job man keep up the work on it!
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#36 Ginger1964

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:56

S!
Vander is God on earth
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#37 rOEN911

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 17:00

good job mate
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#38 SYN_MrWolf

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 17:02

Wow Vander. I am impressed
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#39 Branwell

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 17:59

Great work Vander, respect! :S!:

What sort of a drain on CPU power are they?
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#40 SYN_Vander

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:50

Great work Vander, respect! :S!:

What sort of a drain on CPU power are they?

Not much I think. This is just simple transformation calculation, not physics.
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