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Gunner Position / AI mods (Version 1.032 Update)


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#81 Oscar17

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 16:09

As I sit here mourning my latest DiD career end (collision with a friendly), I am wondering if it is possible to tweak the AI to make it more cowardly. I've been reading Winged Warfare by Billy Bishop, and something that comes up time and time again (and in other WW1 pieces) is that aircraft would so often run away.
Here in RoF, as we all know, the AI almost never runs away, and will happily chase you back to your aerodrome….

I think Bishop's observation (and other pilots') was more of sense of "self preservation" that opponents demonstrated. I wish the AI would avoid engagements where the odds heavily favor their opponent. It would definitely make things more realistic, albeit at the expense of the amount of action one would experience.

Couldn't agree more. I don't know how many autobiographies/biographies/stories (Richthofen, Rickenbacher, etc) where they repeatedly stated that they would always avoid - run away - from a fight they knew they could win. It wasn't cowardess, it was self-preservation. "Live to fight another day".

I would love to see this modeled "correctly" in the AI.
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#82 Avimimus

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:10

Quick update - I've uploaded J.j.'s hotfix that will allow this mod to work with the F.E.2b's weapon mods.

In a little over a week I'll upload a proper 1.031 version with tweaked gunner behaviour for the F.E.2b (most likely more aggressive than rear gunners, more likely to sit down under minor g forces etc.)
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#83 -apex-

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 23:13

… It wasn't cowardess, it was self-preservation. "Live to fight another day".

I would love to see this modeled "correctly" in the AI.

"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious" - Sun Tzu
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#84 HotTom

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 23:35

Quick update - I've uploaded J.j.'s hotfix that will allow this mod to work with the F.E.2b's weapon mods.

In a little over a week I'll upload a proper 1.031 version with tweaked gunner behaviour for the F.E.2b (most likely more aggressive than rear gunners, more likely to sit down under minor g forces etc.)


Couldn't resist :mrgreen:


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#85 Stiffy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:27

Hi, really keen to set gunners to ace so I can fly 2 seaters without a useless gunner!

Your readme says to edit some lines….but what file am I supposed to be editing? Is there a text file somewhere?

You also mention a GUI… but I haven't seen it in the game, can i select "Ace" from a menu in the game somewhere?
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#86 Avimimus

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 16:26

Hi, really keen to set gunners to ace so I can fly 2 seaters without a useless gunner!

Your readme says to edit some lines….but what file am I supposed to be editing? Is there a text file somewhere?

You also mention a GUI… but I haven't seen it in the game, can i select "Ace" from a menu in the game somewhere?

"turretcontrollerai.txt" and "turretcontrollerai_PB.txt"

The AI level of the player's gunner can be selected using the quick mission editor (or the full mission editor if you can figure out how to work it).
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#87 Stiffy

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 00:36

ohhh… ok, so I can't set it for career mode? Think I'll have to give it a miss then, my gunner can't hit a barn door from 3 feet away. Sure its great for people flying scouts though!
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#88 Avimimus

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:26

Well you can increase the skill for any AI level by editing those two files… as for the mod - yes, Ace AI are much better than Veteran/Average/Novice in the mod.
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#89 HotTom

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:43

ohhh… ok, so I can't set it for career mode? Think I'll have to give it a miss then, my gunner can't hit a barn door from 3 feet away. Sure its great for people flying scouts though!

Yes, this is where Avi's silly gunner mod always fails. It's great for the single seater pilots chasing the to seater. But try flying the two seater with his Mod. The gunner just empties his guns into empty sky.

Snake Oil.
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#90 SYN_Adamfp3

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 15:28

HotTom you can be so disrespectful man.

It sad actually
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#91 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 15:33

He's trolling.
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The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#92 HotTom

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 15:33

@Adamfp3: What, exactly, oh wise and exalted teenager who knows all, am I supposed to respect? I've tried several iterations of this Mod. It is as I described it above. Useless.

@Robin: Piss off.
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#93 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 15:39

Image
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The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#94 Avimimus

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 17:09

@Adamfp3: What, exactly, oh wise and exalted teenager who knows all, am I supposed to respect? I've tried several iterations of this Mod. It is as I described it above. Useless.

@Robin: Piss off.

1) Technically it is three mods… one which lowers the gun rotation rates (good for players who like playing the gunner), one which tweaks the gunner AI and one which effects large caliber flak guns. Your issue is with the second mod.

2) I've included instructions on what values are best changed to make the gunners much more lethal.

3) You've posted about fifteen times on how that mod fails. You don't have to use it you know.

4) I fly two seaters primarily - and knowing this you've still refused my challenge to a duel on several occasions.

That said - I agree in principle with the Snake Oil statement - you can't fix some problems without creating new problems and there are plenty of compromises to be made.

So sir, I would suggest you do one of the following:
- Let us actually use this thread in peace to try and improve the mod
- Create your own gunner AI mod which is better
- 'Man up' and actually duel me

:ugeek: 8-)
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#95 SYN_Adamfp3

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 17:15

@HotTom Even if you believe that his work is failing at meeting your standards (which is fair enough)

Respect the fact that somebody takes time out of their day to try and provide you with something. For free I might add

And just a note, my age has nothing to do with it as apparently Im far more level headed than some people that are older than me.
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#96 HotTom

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 17:37

@Adamfp3: What, exactly, oh wise and exalted teenager who knows all, am I supposed to respect? I've tried several iterations of this Mod. It is as I described it above. Useless.

@Robin: Piss off.

1) Technically it is three mods… one which lowers the gun rotation rates (good for players who like playing the gunner), one which tweaks the gunner AI and one which effects large caliber flak guns. Your issue is with the second mod.

2) I've included instructions on what values are best changed to make the gunners much more lethal.

3) You've posted about fifteen times on how that mod fails. You don't have to use it you know.

4) I fly two seaters primarily - and knowing this you've still refused my challenge to a duel on several occasions.

That said - I agree in principle with the Snake Oil statement - you can't fix some problems without creating new problems and there are plenty of compromises to be made.

So sir, I would suggest you do one of the following:
- Let us actually use this thread in peace to try and improve the mod
- Create your own gunner AI mod which is better
- 'Man up' and actually duel me

:ugeek: 8-)

Actually, I use your AAA mod as I think the default could stand some nerfing. And it seems to add some realism.

Yes, I have many times criticized your rear gunner mod because, as I have said many times, it overly nerfs the rear gunner. That's fine until you fly a two seater, there's an enemy scout right behind you and your gunner is blasting away in the wrong direction.

Every time you start pitching your remedy, I'll restate my complaints with it.

So, sir, I suggest, respectfully, the problem with the rear gunner is beyond simple third-party modifications and you join me and others in asking 777 to make the needed code changes. :S!:
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#97 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 17:44

Every time you start pitching your remedy, I'll restate my complaints with it.

Translation: I'm trolling and I'm not going to stop.
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The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#98 HotTom

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 17:48

Every time you start pitching your remedy, I'll restate my complaints with it.

Translation: I'm trolling and I'm not going to stop.

@Robin: What is it about "piss off" that you don't understand?
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#99 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 17:50

The part where I give a crap what you have to say about anything.
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The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#100 Hellshade

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 01:14

For the record, I think the silent majority appreciate the fact that a few people do their best to create mods that attempt to improve the game and then have the courtesy to share them…for free..with everyone else.

We all of course wish that 777 would make this change or that to their flight sim and it will be great if and when those changes occur. Some already have. In the meantime, tearing down the efforts of those who are doing their best to improve the situation really adds nothing of value. It certainly doesn't make 777 decide to fix the problem any faster and most rational people would rather have imperfect, optional solutions rather than none at all.

At any rate, if I haven't said it before, thank you to all of the modders out there on this sim and any other. Nothing will ever be perfect, but don't let that stop you from doing things to make progress. The vast majority of players deeply appreciate your efforts.
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#101 condor-2-4-2

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 15:29

Hello,

in the following snapshots I recorded a situation where the enemy plane is behind me and the front gunner is shooting in this direction - through the pilot or the wings. I tried the gunner ai mods but this strange behavior happend again. I think that a simulation which claims to be historical should be corrected by the developers. Is there mod which can correct the gunner positions.

Thanks for your replys

Condor-2-4-2

Attached Files


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#102 gavagai

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 15:53

I fixed that with the old ai gunner mod but 777 and others felt that it made the 2 seaters and bombers too easy to shoot down. They routinely code the turret positions for the AI to fire through solid objects.
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#103 Gadfly21

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 18:35

Because making them more accurate and preventing them from sitting down all the time would be so very bad…
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#104 Avimimus

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 20:13

Condor-2-4-2 - I ran out of time to import all of Gavagai's fixes into the gunner positions mod, but I can add more if you notice any other aircraft that are problematic (I believe there are fixes for the Gotha and the DFW currently).
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#105 Red-Piano

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 00:21

Because making them more accurate and preventing them from sitting down all the time would be so very bad…

Please this!
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#106 =Fifi=

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 20:35

Please Avimimus, could you update mods for AI gunners to FE2B?
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#107 Avimimus

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 13:26

Hello,

Sorry for the delay. I had a few surprises waiting for me when I got off vacation…

The update has been added.
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#108 thedudeWG

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:50

Avimimus,
I think you got a couple numbers reversed in one of your flak mod files:

Attached File  Desktop_2013_09_23_23_42_44_690.jpg   127.1KB   197 downloads

Thanks for the update! :S!:
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#109 Sabre

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 16:30

What are the latest mods from Avimimus: those updated ( Sep 21, 2013) on the first page in this thread or those listed on http://www.rofmods.com/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.rofmods.com/en/ ?


Thanks,
Sabre.
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#110 thedudeWG

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 17:18

This thread. The version is in the title.
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#111 Sabre

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 17:44

This thread. The version is in the title.

Well, then version numbers contradict your statement. This thread refers to Version 1.031 Update, on ROFMODS site all versions are 1.30. The dates of the files do not produce a clear answer. So I'm asking the same question again to clear this up.

Much thanks,
Sabre.
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#112 Sabre

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 17:51

BH_thedudeWG, did you install the mods in this thread manually or they are also compatible with JSGME?

Thanks,
Sabre.
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#113 HotTom

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 18:03

Sabre, you're getting all wrapped around the axle on JSGME and hand installing. JGSME is simply a tool to install or uninstall Mods. Doing it hand means you have to manually put them in and take them out of folders. But which ever way you do it, they both work.

I have mods installed both ways and both work equally well.

Stop fretting about it. ;-)

As far as the current version number, usually modders start with a new Mod in the first post of a thread and, as they add updates, they are placed on the first post of the thread and the Title is Updated to reflect that. The current version is in Post #1.

Don't overthink it. :mrgreen:

Hope that helps.

:S!:

HT
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#114 Sabre

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 18:18

HotTom, I'll try to rephrase:

1. Can I drop the mods from here directly to my Mods folder and install them with JSGME without any adjustment of the files/folder structure? What does "JSGME-ready" mean?

2. 1.031 vs 1.30 is confusing, but I'll take your word for v1.031 is newer than v1.30 :P

Thanks,
Sabre.
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#115 HotTom

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 18:25

You do not need to adjust the file folder structure in any way. Most of the Mods come with some documentation telling you into which folder to drop them. If they don't have instructions and are JSGME-ready, you can open them and follow the folder path to determine where to put them manually, if you choose.

My problem is I have hand-inserted many Mods a long time ago that I like and want to keep but have no idea where I hand-inserted them anymore. When I discovered they aren't affected when I added JSGME, I just left them there and they work fine.

JSGME ready means you can just drop them into the Mods folder. When you install JSGME, it creates a folder in the main Rise of Flight folder called MODS. If you drop the mod folder file in there, it will appear in the list of mods when you open the JSGME tool (remember it is a tool). Then you just decide which to install or uninstall.

JGSME actually is pretty slick. If you haven't tried it, give it a shot. It's pretty simple (even a HotTom can do it. :mrgreen: ).
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#116 Sabre

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 18:54

If they don't have instructions and are JSGME-ready…

That's what I'm trying to get: how do you know a mod is JSGME-ready if they don't have instructions? For example, I see a mod and I'd like to install it. The readme doesn't mention JSGME,or there's no readme at all. Can I just drop the folder (with the mod's name) to my MODS folder and then handle it from JSGME? I know how to use JSGME and definitely I'd like to use it on for all mods to avoid the mix up with the files and folders, but I'm trying to understand if ANY mod can be used with JSGME this way.

Thanks,
Sabre.
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#117 Sabre

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 19:13

Flak Mod 1.030-1.031

Note: I recommend remove early versions of the Flak mod and installing the 1.030-1.031 version.


1. What is installing "1.030-1.031 version"? There are 2 different versions, 1.030 and 1.031 in the download links on the first page. One or the other?

2. Please note, in both versions AnglePitchMin = -10.0 and alike in 13prdturret.txt and other relevant files. Needs to be edited manually I guess.

Thanks,
Sabre.
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#118 Avimimus

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 22:58

What are the latest mods from Avimimus: those updated ( Sep 21, 2013) on the first page in this thread or those listed on http://www.rofmods.com/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.rofmods.com/en/ ?


Thanks,
Sabre.

Hi - this thread always has the newest versions. Consider this thread to be the test for release candidates, and the website to be for more established versions.

Avimimus,
I think you got a couple numbers reversed in one of your flak mod files:



Thanks for the update! :S!:

Great that you noticed this.

Some of the anti-aircraft artillery are only used on ships. Others are used on ground vehicles.

The AI regularly shoots the ground (including buildings/hangars) if it is allowed to. On the other hand - the AI on ships can't use weapons for shore bombardment if they can't be lowered too much.

So it is something of a compromise. I chose to give a minimum elevation for land based weapons and non-minimum elevation for naval weapons.

If you set the minimum angle to 12 or 15 degrees it can create a relatively safe zone for low flying aircraft to pass under the gun's field of fire. However, it lowers reaction time at long ranges.

But - please test this further - and let me know what you think is best.

I can also do with feedback regarding whether submarines should be able to shoot at aircraft.
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#119 Bucksnort

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 02:27

I can also do with feedback regarding whether submarines should be able to shoot at aircraft.

Yes, that would be great! If historically legitimate and possible in game then please do! Right now Felixstowe missions are boring milk runs…find sub, drop bombs, sink sub, rinse repeat. Any form of resistance would be an improvement to game play IMO.

And thanks for the update!

Merry Christmas!
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#120 Avimimus

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 20:34

See the Flak package - it has such a mod.

The deck gun will fire at you if you fly low enough. It has limited maximum elevation - so it can't hit you if you are too high/close. It also doesn't have fused shells - so it requires a direct hit.

Let me know how it works and if it should be included.

Hopefully some of our talented object makers will add small arms fire from ships.

P.S. Merry Christmas!
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