173 replies to this topic

[startrekmike]

Why would they?

[LukeFF]

I sure hope these gun mods don't spoil the game

They won't. Quit being so negative.

[neuro]

That Bristol has 3 forward-firing guns + twin guns in the turret?
Now that's what I call a PWN-machine (if we only could get reinforced wings…)

Also, can the extra gun on the Breguet be angled to fire straight, or does it only fire upwards?

[startrekmike]

I think all of them (except the Dolphin cockpit guns) can be angled to fire forward, you can pull them back to reload or fire at a upward angle.

I could be wrong, someone please correct me because I am also kinda curious.

[Frankyboy]

That Bristol has 3 forward-firing guns + twin guns in the turret?
Now that's what I call a PWN-machine …..

count the guns of the DH4
and this thing has a powerfull engine !

[neuro]

Flying as fighter, I'd prefer the Bristol over the DH4 if it wasnt for the relatively weak wings. As it is right now, my favorite 'heavy fighter' is the Breguet, by far. The Bristol and DH4 are very different but both can be effective as fighters. The Re8 can be pretty effective too, but having less horse power it's more tricky when it comes to energy management. And of course, im talking about flying with a good gunner in the rear cockpit. If I don't have a gunner I don't fly 2-seaters as fighters.

[sallee]

I hope these weapons mods don't give you piles.

[neuro]

Depends on how you use them, I guess…

[sallee]

Fair point.

[Sparrow315]

Decisions, decisions, I can only afford to get either the 0/400 with the 57 or the Gotha with the 20s, I need help deciding!

[Gadfly21]

The O/400 also comes with a twin Lewis mount for the rear gunner position. The 57 mm cannon is an offensive tool against sea and ground targets, not for defense against aircraft like the two Becker cannons would be.

- PS I've noticed on the store page that pictures of each mod are now included, and next to the Becker cannons are "HE" and "AP". Does the player chose the loadout, or are both of these types included in the standard belt? What would be the benefit of each in air combat? (I ordered the gun for my DFW).

[startrekmike]

So all the images we see have the wing mounted guns facing up, any shots of them facing forward?

I mean, I know I probably only need to wait a few days to see it myself in game, but I am just curious.

Also, how the heck do we aim the rockets? I don't know how that worked, perhaps some book somewhere speaks about it?

[Endy]

http://en.wikipedia....e_Prieur_rocket" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia....e_Prieur_rocket

There yer go startremike.

[J5_Gamecock]

I sure hope these gun mods don't spoil the game

Wouldn't worry about that.IMO they make it more a "game", and less the historical flight sim it started out as.

[arjisme]

Gamecock, can you give a quick explanation on how the gun mods are not historical, keeping in mind that historical means did exist in history?

[LukeFF]

I sure hope these gun mods don't spoil the game

Wouldn't worry about that.IMO they make it more a "game", and less the historical flight sim it started out as.

Right, then I guess pilots like Nungesser were being gamey because they added an extra Lewis gun to their N17. Or Frank Luke adding balloon guns to his plane - the shock! What a dishonorable man he was for doing that!



You guys gotta come up with better arguments than this.

[J5_Gamecock]

True,there is nothing here that wasn't available in WWI. However,when you take prototypes or experimental weapon configurations,(most of which never worked out or saw VERY limited service and some that never got past the testing stage), and make them available to everyone,then you're getting away from the historic aspect of the sim.

Sorry to offend, but just my opinion.


BTW Luke, you actually helped my point with the examples of Luke and Nungesser. Individuals, NOT mass-produced.

[BraveSirRobin]

Gamecock has an excellent point. Of course, the fact that nobody actually dies when they are shot down is also getting away from the historical aspect of the sim. I'm not sure why that isn't a problem for the "purists"…

[J5_Gamecock]

Gamecock has an excellent point. Of course, the fact that nobody actually dies when they are shot down is also getting away from the historical aspect of the sim. I'm not sure why that isn't a problem for the "purists"…

Good point

[DidNotFinish]

Gamecock has an excellent point. Of course, the fact that nobody actually dies when they are shot down is also getting away from the historical aspect of the sim. I'm not sure why that isn't a problem for the "purists"…

Good point

No, that's not a good point. Wanting historical accuracy and wanting to die are two different things on two very different levels. If flight sims killed you, they'd be a hell of a lot less popular than they already are. I think that Gamecock brings a fair argument to the table; seeing an Albatros with a Lewis MG on its wing would be unusual in WWI. Here, in ROF, we will have the possibility of seeing whole flights, even squadrons, with this modification. Why is this so unbelievable?

[BraveSirRobin]

Gamecock has an excellent point. Of course, the fact that nobody actually dies when they are shot down is also getting away from the historical aspect of the sim. I'm not sure why that isn't a problem for the "purists"…

Good point

No, that's not a good point. Wanting historical accuracy and wanting to die are two different things on two very different levels.

No, the fact that we don't die is everything. It's not a history sim, it's a flight sim. We're just "flying" the aircraft, we're not reliving history.

[arjisme]

True,there is nothing here that wasn't available in WWI. However,when you take prototypes or experimental weapon configurations,(most of which never worked out or saw VERY limited service and some that never got past the testing stage), and make them available to everyone,then you're getting away from the historic aspect of the sim.

Sorry to offend, but just my opinion.


BTW Luke, you actually helped my point with the examples of Luke and Nungesser. Individuals, NOT mass-produced.

Don't know why you would think you've offended anyone. Does a lack of automatic agreement constitute offense?

Whether or not these mods get away from the historic aspect of the sim is entirely up to the mission designers and how they are actually used. Flying HPs and Gothas over the front lines in daylight also qualifies by your standards. And, of course, fast action missions where it is Corsairs vs. Knights is far from historical, but has always been included in the game.

Jason recently clarified that the AI will not fly with these mods. So, right there, in SP at most you will see one aircraft in the sky with these mods: you. So, your choice as to how real you want to keep it.

There will certainly be an initial playing around period in MP with these mods. But I would expect it to settle down and be more historical on servers that specialize in historical missions.

[arjisme]

No, the fact that we don't die is everything. It's not a history sim, it's a flight sim. We're just "flying" the aircraft, we're not reliving history.

Sorry, that's just too pedantic for my tastes.

It is (or can be) a history sim if you use it to recreate history within the limits of the sim's capabilities.

It is similar to the historical recreations of battles that some participate in. No one is actually killed, but the events are recreated to gain a better insight as to what it was like. It is not a perfect recreation. If that were the standard for calling a sim a history sim, then no sim could be called that and the phrase "history sim" would be self-contradictory – a concept devoid of meaning.

"Historical simulation" is a valid concept when the context is properly understood.

[BraveSirRobin]

No, the fact that we don't die is everything. It's not a history sim, it's a flight sim. We're just "flying" the aircraft, we're not reliving history.

It is (or can be) a history sim if you use it to recreate history within the limits of the sim's capabilities.

If you don't die you're not recreating anything. The constant threat of death hung over everything they did, and how they flew. We're just flying their planes. We're not coming close to recreating how they flew those planes.

[Jason_Williams]

True,there is nothing here that wasn't available in WWI. However,when you take prototypes or experimental weapon configurations,(most of which never worked out or saw VERY limited service and some that never got past the testing stage), and make them available to everyone,then you're getting away from the historic aspect of the sim.

Sorry to offend, but just my opinion.


BTW Luke, you actually helped my point with the examples of Luke and Nungesser. Individuals, NOT mass-produced.

They are OPTIONAL equipment. Not everyone will buy them and not every server will allow them.

Sorry, but all this arguing about what is historical is nonsense. Recreating anything long since gone is "historical" in our book. If you don't think using them is historical, then don't use them.

One thing I will say, is that if it weren't for the weapon mods, you would not have any more ROF anything including the fixes they bring along with them, so which do you prefer?

Building these weapon mods just made ROF A LOT more historical in many, many ways.

Jason

[arjisme]

If you don't die you're not recreating anything. The constant threat of death hung over everything they did, and how they flew. We're just flying their planes. We're not coming close to recreating how they flew those planes.

Right, forgot that debating with you is just an exercise in running around in circles. No new content in what you posted there – just a rehash of what you said the first time w/no acknowledgement or specific addressing of anything I said in reply.

Done with you on this little off topic.

[BraveSirRobin]

If you don't die you're not recreating anything. The constant threat of death hung over everything they did, and how they flew. We're just flying their planes. We're not coming close to recreating how they flew those planes.

Right, forgot that debating with you is just an exercise in running around in circles. No new content in what you posted there – just a rehash of what you said the first time w/no acknowledgement or specific addressing of anything I said in reply.

Done with you on this little off topic.

You missed the point, so I tried to restate it. I'll try again. The people who are whining that the weapons mods will ruin their pristine historical simulation are delusional. Their ideal historical simulation never existed (aka "we don't die"). In fact, the weapons mods allow us to simulate even more historical situations, as well as simulate many "what if" situations.

[Gimpy117]

those are pretty scary cannons I see there…

[arjisme]

You missed the point, so I tried to restate it. I'll try again. The people who are whining that the weapons mods will ruin their pristine historical simulation are delusional. Their ideal historical simulation never existed (aka "we don't die"). In fact, the weapons mods allow us to simulate even more historical situations, as well as simulate many "what if" situations.

OK, now that it resembles a discussion I'll continue.

I didn't miss the point. You wanted to showcase the hypocrisy of playing out a historical simulation in a sim where it isn't really possible to be fully historical. That is why I chimed in to begin with. I think your view is overly pedantic. You are arguing against a straw man. I don't believe anyone is asserting they want full blood and guts realism.

Short of that, it is possible to have an historical simulation in the sim that approaches reality to a greater degree than has been done before. I think that is the goal most, if not all, of the history & realism advocates seek.

Regardless, I do agree with you that the weapons mods actually allow for even greater opportunities to simulate history. These mods did exist and having them in the sim is moving things forward.

[BraveSirRobin]

You missed the point, so I tried to restate it. I'll try again. The people who are whining that the weapons mods will ruin their pristine historical simulation are delusional. Their ideal historical simulation never existed (aka "we don't die"). In fact, the weapons mods allow us to simulate even more historical situations, as well as simulate many "what if" situations.

OK, now that it resembles a discussion I'll continue.

I didn't miss the point. You wanted to showcase the hypocrisy of playing out a historical simulation in a sim where it isn't really possible to be fully historical.

Yes, you did miss the point, and you're still missing the point. The people who are whining about the weapon mods are claiming that it will make the game less historical because everyone will be flying around with rare mods. They are completely ignoring all the non-historical things that they are doing right now. That is the hypocrisy I'm talking about. For instance, gavagai spends all his time on multi-player alone stalking other lone aircraft (while whining about random shit in the text chat). How historical is that? There were probably more Lewis guns on Albatross DVa's than there were pilots who spent ALL their time as lone hunters.

[Jason_Williams]

You missed the point, so I tried to restate it. I'll try again. The people who are whining that the weapons mods will ruin their pristine historical simulation are delusional. Their ideal historical simulation never existed (aka "we don't die"). In fact, the weapons mods allow us to simulate even more historical situations, as well as simulate many "what if" situations.

OK, now that it resembles a discussion I'll continue.

I didn't miss the point. You wanted to showcase the hypocrisy of playing out a historical simulation in a sim where it isn't really possible to be fully historical.

Yes, you did miss the point, and you're still missing the point. The people who are whining about the weapon mods are claiming that it will make the game less historical because everyone will be flying around with rare mods. They are completely ignoring all the non-historical things that they are doing right now. That is the hypocrisy I'm talking about. For instance, gavagai spends all his time on multi-player alone stalking other lone aircraft (while whining about random shit in the text chat). How historical is that? There were probably more Lewis guns on Albatross DVa's than there were pilots who spent ALL their time as lone hunters.

Ok guys,

Yes, it's a simulation, not real life. I get all your points even if some don't get mine. Let's knock off the arguing now. There is enough hypocrisy to go around on all sides of every argument on this forum. You have a great and important update coming very soon. Just focus on the fun you're about to have.

Jason

[arjisme]

Removed per Jason's request.

[startrekmike]

Well, on a more positive note.

I notice that my play time on ROF has increased a great deal due to the oncoming patch, though I feel like I will have to relearn the sim when I start adding extra weight to my aircraft

Does anyone have any real life footage of some of these new weapons, I can't seem to find any youtube links myself, perhaps someone knows of a source?

***EDIT***

I am literally counting the minutes until this thing comes out, I am beyond excited at the prospect of potentially game changing content that will help keep things fresh while giving us all a great opportunity to re-enact some of the more unique air combat situations of the war.

Imagine how cool it will be when we can aim our lewis up to take a poke at that high flying Gotha

[hq_Jorri]

Mike, Jason posted two videos: one with the rockets, and one with the Camel cutout and Triplane twin vicker.

And yeah, there will be new things to learn and also a few buttons to (re)assign!

[startrekmike]

I know about the in game footage, I was just wondering if anyone knew of any real world footage of the weapons, even from modern reproductions.

[hq_Jorri]

Ahhh sorry, misinterpreted.

[Bf-110]

Maybe I'm the only one that liked the weapons mods and believe they won't mess RoF realism…unless you want to do so.

[Jason_Williams]

I'm telling you guys, with the improvements we have made to rates of fire and other small changes ROF has never been more "real" or "historical". Combat will be more deadly and you'll probably need to adjust your tactics a bit. But that's good because I think that gets you closer to how it was. I really fear getting shot at now even with AI.

Jason

[startrekmike]

Exactly what I am hoping for Jason, I have no doubt that we will be very pleased with the new features and equipment.

This is going to be a good time for ROF players.

[No48_Snoopy]

I'm telling you guys, with the improvements we have made to rates of fire and other small changes ROF has never been more "real" or "historical". Combat will be more deadly and you'll probably need to adjust your tactics a bit. But that's good because I think that gets you closer to how it was. I really fear getting shot at now even with AI.

Jason

Quite a crack job, 777 Team! No. 48 Sqdn pilots anxiously await to convert the Brisfits into "Flying Fortresses" . Thanks for everything
~S!~