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Making rails, roads, and trenches. It works.


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#161 AnKor85

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:02

WolfPac, bridges are a bit tricky.
I suppose you just ended one polyline and started a new one on the other side of the river? This way the game will treat these lines as separate roads and bridge won't connect them.

There's a special tool from devs that finds places where roads cross the rivers and adds special "marker" there so the game still thinks that the road is continuous but didn't draw it over the river.
To work, this tool needs source files for water data - the set of BMP files 3200*3200 pixels each (10m/pixel resolution).
Good thing about the tool is that it also outputs .Group file containing all bridges in appropriate places so they can be imported into mission editor.
I will post it later with some instructions, just don't have time now.

Before that you can also add bridge markers manually by editing .ini files.
Let's say that you have made a road and split it in two parts for each side of the river, the ini file will contain two separate lines:
10,100 20,100
25,100 30,100
Assuming the river is located between coordinates 20 and 25.

Now if you connect the road into a single line like this:
10,100 20,100 25,100 30,100
The game will draw the road across the river which is obviously wrong.

However, if you add a single letter B between the points where the river goes:
10,100 20,100 B 25,100 30,100
it will tell the game that the road is continuous for routing purposes but it should draw a gap between between points 20 and 25.
Well, at least I think it works this way. I haven't actually checked how routing for bridges work.

Finally, the silence from me is not because I abandoned the thread but quite the contrary - DiFiS persuaded me to make a map editor that will allow to simplify the workflow, so right now I'm busy with it. If everything goes right I will show an initial version by the end of next week - it will allow to play around with carpet tiles placement.
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#162 O_WolfPac

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:39

See sometimes i do not see the obvious :o)

Yes i make 2 roads , first time i saw the issue at rivers and re-did the roads to correct it , but caused the vehicles to turn round or stop , when they saw water :)
I thought it was my mistake , or Ai Trucks that just really did not like water
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#163 AnKor85

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:52

I have found that they go into water and sink pretty well if you forgot to add a bridge :)
A small teaser about map editor:
Attached File  map editor preview.jpg   203.87KB   360 downloads
It is obvious WIP with lots of features missing, but as I said by the end of next week I think I will get tile editor working :)
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#164 Rama

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:53

That sound very intersting
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#165 SYN_Vander

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 15:03

Looking good! Really looking forward to this :)
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#166 AnKor85

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 17:00

Thanks! :)
My only concern is that this project will prevent me from progressing in development of the mission editor and I actually consider the latter to be more interesting and useful. On the other hand - the map editor is less complex and thus has more chances to be completed at all.
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#167 Waxworks

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 18:06

The Siegfried Stellung or Hindenburg Line ran from Arras to the Aisne east of Soissons. Vander has provided a map on post #95, which seems to be of the Hindenburg Line after the Vimy-Arras offensive. A Hindenburg map should really include the devastation of that offensive and also the Somme battlefield, which wrecked everywhere south of Warlencourt and west of Peronne. I would go so far as to use mud for these sectors and not for the rest of the Hindenburg Line, which had only seen light fighting for which trenches alone might be sufficient, or some 'intermediate' level of mud. Ypres should also be a ruin. I can achieve this already in the editor but the trees remain.

Is there any chance of being able to turn the ambient flak off when the areas are no longer part of the front line?

With an update we could also have more villages or ruined villages, which can be added using the existing editor. Perhaps it might be useful to start by having detailed representation of all the important battlefields?
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#168 O_WolfPac

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 00:58

Question is it possible to add a second frontline ?

We know how to move the mud front line we have presently , but if and i do say IF a Hindenburg front Line was made the ground texture would be different in and around the frontline and the push was with in 1 month from what i can see so the ground damage would not be as destroyed and be crater and mud totally , some parts would be green in patches ….

So if the No mans land remained present and a second front line was added

Is this possible ?

I can see it could be done with substrates but is it possible to add this onto the mask files maybe as a extra colour lets say Orange or even white markings

How are the colours controlled regarding the mask files
nomansland is blue ( granted the blue is multiple colours of blue :) )
Forest is green
River is red
then we have afew blends of all as yellow
Just 4 colours

How do we add a 5th colour or can we ?

What im thinking is a texture that has alpha cutouts of craters that would cut the grass and add the feeling of a fast moving battle area.
At the same time a 6th texture could be added to nomansland we have presently to show some green and life recovering in the mud.

Just asking is it possible to add texture via mask files as we only use 4 colours at present.
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#169 O_WolfPac

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:26

texture.ini

ground_color0=0x9f8e60;
ground_color1=0xffc47d;
ground_color2=0xffc47d;
ground_color3=0xFFFF00;

And the channels of the type dds texture file ?

Is that all that controls the mask files ?
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#170 AnKor85

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:27

I don't know yet how ambient flak (and probably related "battle smoke") over no-mans land is controlled. Will figure out when it will be necessary. I hope DiFiS will be able to help here, he knows a lot about map internal structure :)

As for "intermediate" mud… Unfortunately I don't think it is possible to have more than 3 mask textures - so we are limited to having only forest, sand and mud masks. However they aren't just ON/OFF layer but can be partially transparent. This means that we can try to simulate fresh (or recovering) battlefields by using half (or any other percentage) transparent mud texture. Need to check how it looks though.
We can also try to use substrate textures so draw individual craters or similar stuff, but again, need to see how they look and how the game will work if we put a lot of them nearby.
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#171 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:15

I don't know yet how ambient flak (and probably related "battle smoke") over no-mans land is controlled. Will figure out when it will be necessary. I hope DiFiS will be able to help here, he knows a lot about map internal structure :)

If you guys find out how to remove ambient flak, please release it as a mod for existant map.
It shouldn't be there IMHO.
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#172 O_WolfPac

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 00:41

Sorry Paf

what do you mean it shouldnt be there ? its the front line ,its the only place you would expect to see ambient flak.

im not taking a dig at you ,i just like the effect its very cleverly made and gives nomans-land an ambient feeling of danger , of course this is just my opinion.
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#173 redcoat22

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 02:10

Sorry Paf

what do you mean it shouldnt be there ? its the front line ,its the only place you would expect to see ambient flak.

im not taking a dig at you ,i just like the effect its very cleverly made and gives nomans-land an ambient feeling of danger , of course this is just my opinion.


While I agree the effect is nicely done, I think his position is that flak gunners did not arbitrarily fire bursts into the air for dangerous visual effect. They fired at planes. In fact, it was one of the most common ways another pilot would spot someone else in the area.
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#174 =Fifi=

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 02:10

As Paf, i think those AA bursts are very disturbing when trying to spot planes close to NML.
And why AA would fire at nothing?
Smoke from ground explosions is already there to give global ambiance.

But it's just a matter of taste, i guess. And a dev's choice when they made it firstly.
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#175 Rama

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 12:31

While I agree the effect is nicely done, I think his position is that flak gunners did not arbitrarily fire bursts into the air for dangerous visual effect. They fired at planes. In fact, it was one of the most common ways another pilot would spot someone else in the area.
You're right. But this isn't a map feature, it's a game feature (the way the front ambient flak gunnery is coded)
It would probably be IMHO more useful to discuss it on a specific thread.
… and to focus here on what can be done by third parties for map making/map mods.
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#176 O_WolfPac

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 04:13

Rama Question you might know :)

How are the colours controlled regarding the mask files
nomansland is blue ( granted the blue is multiple colours of blue :) )
Forest (Shadows) is green
River (Sand) is red
then we have afew blends of all as yellow
Just 4 colours

texture.ini

ground_color0=0x9f8e60;
ground_color1=0xffc47d;
ground_color2=0xffc47d;
ground_color3=0xFFFF00;

And the channels of the type dds texture file ?

Is that all that controls the mask files ?

If i add new line to ini file ground_color4=0x111111;
then add new channel with same colour code would this work
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#177 AnKor85

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 18:12

Small update.
Terrain editor preview that I wanted to show won't be ready for this weekend. I've had problems deciding how UI should work but DiFiS gave me some good ideas today and now I know what to do next. However it looks like I will be having less free time now – one of my old "free-time" projects unexpectedly revived, and since I'm actually paid for it I'll have to do some work there.
Anyway I'll still try to release something as soon as possible.
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#178 O_WolfPac

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 03:06

no worries Ankor :)

Its funny how things in life turn up and life & Bills comes first.

By the way i finished the Hurricane :)

Image
http://www.oceanicwi...hp?topic=1072.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.oceanicwi...om/Forum/Main/i … pic=1072.0
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#179 -bbob

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 03:41

AnKor, take your time mate.

It would however be fantastically cool to have an editor like that. :D
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#180 Cold_Gambler

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 17:28

I can only read this thread with slack-jawed amazement at what you guys can do!

I'm feeling conflicted at AnKor85 being distracted from his RoF projects just because he has other things on the go that he gets paid for ;)
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#181 xjouve

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:39

Nice thread. Makes me want to continue working on this old project: Modded map
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#182 O_WolfPac

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 21:20

xjouve , you should , it all works ,personally im still having problems with roads that cross over rivers but im convinced its my mistake something wrong , just havent worked out what yet :)

xjouve your old project stumbled and stopped because of the unknown , but now its all clear to dig new trenchlines
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#183 AnKor85

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:40

xjouve, I've read that thread before and you were doing a great work altering front lines. This is something that is really wanted around here!

I've made some progress with map editor, but I think I'll change my plans a bit: I started with making tile editor but it is mostly useful for creating maps of new areas, but right now we want to make alterations of existing main map.
Thus I'll put my efforts into making road editor which is what this topic about anyway :)
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#184 xjouve

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 11:20

Thanks for the kind words guys. :)

I had a glance over the SVGs, and other files, but I'm still a bit confused. But apparently this is where I was stuck by past. If moving trenches has became possible, then my project can now be continued! :D
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#185 O_WolfPac

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 21:10

trench lines , ALL tree's , roads and rail all can be moved.

Only one i can not move ,is the dust in the air over nomansland , but this is because i have not found the correct file yet.
I thought i had seen the file before along time ago it was a dds file of black and dark green , were black indicated the nomandland shape dark green all the rest of the large standard map , but it also have 3 black lines top right of the dds files
we never tested it ,but i think this file is what controls the dust of battle over the mud.

I just wish i could find it and know its file name hehe
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#186 Avimimus

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 21:27

There is an ini file which describes the appearance of the dust effect (and could be used to remove it).

However, I have no idea how the landscape is associated with the dust (spatially).
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#187 MattM

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 21:29

forest_color.dds

It's in the graphics\landscape\landtexturesquality\ folder.

I'm not sure if that file controls the dust though, i would say it doesn't, based on the file name alone. Did not check it.
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#188 O_WolfPac

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 07:36

MattM thats the one if you open the dds its the nomansland shape of the large map

I never worked out what the stripes are used for ? or why they are present
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#189 MattM

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 11:55

There ae actually two different files. One in the GTP files and another one unpacked in the graphics folder. They differ a bit, one has brownish NML and the other black and the forest shape is a bit different.

I think it controls this long distance forest textures, but I'm not sure.
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#190 O_WolfPac

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 20:17

i havent tried it but because it has the shape of nml im under the impression it is the dust in the air location.
The amount of dust is controlled by a different file abit like the colour of water.

2 ways to find out :P

MAKE a Backup of the files first then…

edit the file , remove nml and see
or
edit the mask files for somewhere like verdun on the mask files , lets say 6-8 files and remove the mud blue totally and see if the dust gets removed aswell.
login mods on mode and to see what happens.

The way things are controlled changed slightly afew months back when they merged some textures into one file , maybe at that point the way dust is controlled changed
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#191 MattM

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 16:14

That file doesn't control it. Just rotated the image 90° and the dust is still at the same place.

I think it's somehow hard coded into the map. Spend some time on searching a file which might control the dust, but just can't find it.
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#192 O_WolfPac

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 00:29

MattM :) i would suggect a basic edit test if thats the case

Edit the mask files for some where like Verdun on the mask files , lets say 6-8 files and remove the mud blue totally and see if the dust gets removed aswell.
login mods on mode and to see what happens.

The way things are controlled changed slightly afew months back when they merged some textures into one file , maybe at that point the way dust is controlled changed
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#193 NewGuy_

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 00:42

I just wanted to bump this, because it looks like a cool project! :S!: MJ
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Something something SPAD. Something something then dive away. 


#194 MattM

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 14:18

Edit the mask files for some where like Verdun on the mask files , lets say 6-8 files and remove the mud blue totally and see if the dust gets removed aswell.
login mods on mode and to see what happens.
Yes, i already tried that. Doesn't look like the blue stuff on the mask files controls the dust either.

It's much easier to check this by using the mission editor btw. It will basically start in mods-on mode all the time and if you make changes and click on "new mission", it will automatically update with the changes.

Much quicker and simpler than booting up ROF to check that.
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#195 O_WolfPac

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 02:26

hmmm i did not know that matt about the editor thank you :) what a clever editor we have

Regarding dust over NML if its not the masks of the other file then i havent a clue
My thought go towards the only other thing that follows NML and thats the trench lines but i can not see how that could be done.

I remember seeing a file that was a gradiant of dust colours , maybe find that file and then do a windows search on the whole folder to see what text uses the file it may lead to a clue.

I honestly thought the mask files and/or the forest_colour dds would of controlled it in someway

Sorry for wasting some time MattM
Its a question for Rama now :)
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#196 Jaeger_301

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:05

The other main question is about collecting the needed data to built these maps (the historical maps, etc…)….
As an example, for the Italian front map, altitude map and water map are done… continuing the work is impossible without the proper historical maps.

Historical maps about the austrian/italian front are available here:
(austrian national archive)

http://www.onb.ac.at...n_bestaende.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.onb.ac.at...mlungen/karten/ … taende.htm

with the search: erster weltkrieg isonzo, i found some maps with frontlines (cant link the result)



plus tons of digital images
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#197 J.j.

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:40

I've tried to do as you say, but I can't find how to open the results to have access to some maps?
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#198 Jaeger_301

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 13:20

Hi,

the search is very tricky! :xx:

Here are the links for the Isonzo war map:

http://data.onb.ac.at/rec/AC04123805" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://data.onb.ac.at/rec/AC04123805
http://data.onb.ac.at/rec/AC04137386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://data.onb.ac.at/rec/AC04137386

The Austrian National Archive has several thousand files about the Isonzo battle, some of them are free and online available, unfortunately the maps are payware.

According to the Archive it is possible to make scans up to the size of A2, the contact is:
bildarchiv@onb.ac.at

good luck

Jaeger
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#199 J.j.

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 13:59

Oh, ok. It was just for curiosity, but I think that it can be found interesting by some people if
a map of Austrian front is worked some days.

By the way, do you know how we can recognize ressources online available?
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#200 Jaeger_301

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 16:16

a map of the "schützengraeben" of the italian front.

http://www.it-au-191...st_grappa_2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.it-au-191...18.com/schuetze … appa_2.htm

this side includes also lots of pictures from the used trenches.

http://www.it-au-191..._mot_tour_2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.it-au-191...18.com/monte_sc … tour_2.htm
http://www.it-au-191...il_tour_i_6.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.it-au-191...il_tour_i_6.htm

http://www.it-au-191...chauplaetze.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.it-au-191...chauplaetze.htm
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