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#81 O_WolfPac

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:23

How do i rotate a tile carpet file = 1 of the 10x10 =100 carpet files
How do i ADD more tile lines , to lets say map 20x20 carpet


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#82 Rama

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 13:05

yes, at first I'm going to convert ingame ini into editable svg. I haven't yet looked at QGIS, perhaps it can read svg via plug-ins (Rama said it can export, but maybe import too).

The GGIS Plugin nor any freeware I know allows you to convert svg in a geolocalized vector file (as shapefile for example), so I don't think you can use svg files into QGIS, unless developping a specific converter in shapefile (or another known GIS format, limited to the basic polylines which are the only kind of vector objects used for the roads and railroads). Even then you have to know the cartographic projection parameters used for the in-game map that you can find below:
Map projection: extended Lambert II (I can provide this map projection parameters if needed)
X Origin (bottom left corner): 572320m
Y Origin (bottom left corner): 2357400m
to convert the in-game coordinate in Lambert II coordinate, you just have to add to this the game distance to the bottom left corner.
I need to verify if the above coordinates are correct (if the game map wasn't a bit cropped in the bottom). I'll do it on monday.

Using QGIS is ok when you have an historical map in any kind of geolocalized raster format (as geoTIFF for example), and when you digitize vector forms directly on it in geolocalized vector formats.

If converting the roads and railroads vector into any kind of GIS format is to complicated, then the only viable option is to use Adobe Illustrator drawing software instead.
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#83 AnKor85

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:45

I've installed QGIS but this tool seem too professional for me. We aren't going to remake road/railway network from scratch but just at some detail at important points like cities and towns.

As for converting into shapefile, it may be possible. According to wikipedia there are 3 mandatory files:
.shp — shape format; the feature geometry itself
.shx — shape index format; backwards quickly
.dbf — attribute format; columnar attributes for each shape, in dBase IV format

First two seem to be very simple binary files and (of course, knowing the right projection) and I should be able to convert ini/svg into them easily. dBase IV is common (and very old) format but first I need to get specification for required attributes… But actually I'm not going to do it, because as I said using QGIS seems to be an overkill for this task.
Though, Rama, if you are interested in converting SVG into shapefiles, I may take a look at it someday later. Maybe it will be useful for your tasks.
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#84 Rama

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 15:42

We aren't going to remake road/railway network from scratch but just at some detail at important points like cities and towns.
Yes, and as I said, Adobe Illustrator should be good enough for this task (even if it's not very userfriendly).

Though, Rama, if you are interested in converting SVG into shapefiles, I may take a look at it someday later. Maybe it will be useful for your tasks.
Not really… since I'll keep both the shapefiles and the SVG files for the Channel map and for the project I'm curently working on.

But thank you anyway for your proposal.
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#85 O_WolfPac

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:19

Ankor,

How did you find the correct location on the map , within the text co-ordinates of the example new railway lines?

You really have popped my mind with this and i still can not make a road but im not giving up now i now its possible :P

By the way i think ,, think i know why your loco engine spawned twice , it could be the textures overlap and cause the issue if the siding rail lines are placed further apart maybe the issue resolves its self automatically
The rail way textures do extend a ling way either side of the rail tracks ,,, just a thought :)

How did you find the correct location on the map , within the text co-ordinates of the example new railway lines? is all i want to know :)

Would be great is the DiFiS texture concept was allowed multiplayer to be added in a more easier way , more compatible version , like a Mask but with greater detail (shaper line content)

Still havent worked out how to rotate tiles of the carpet or add afew extra lines of carpet tiles.

Lucas knows but he's a work-aholic :P
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#86 AnKor85

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:42

How did you find the correct location on the map , within the text co-ordinates of the example new railway lines?
Attached File  mainmaptransform.png   9.62KB   356 downloads
INI and map use different origin: ini file is just like a normal image uses left-top corner as 0,0 with X being the first coordinate and Y the second. Map uses bottom-left corner as 0,0 with X being the second coordinate.
To convert from ini into main map coordinates use the folloing formula:
mapZ = 281600 - (iniY * 25)
mapX = iniX * 25
Where 281600 is the vertical size of the map and 25 is the scale as stated in roadssystems.ini. For verdun/lake the scale is 50 and the map height is 51200.
Converting back into ini will look like:
iniX = mapX / 25
iniY = (281600 - mapZ) / 25

Or just wait a bit. I hope to make necessary conversion tools this week :)

By the way i think ,, think i know why your loco engine spawned twice , it could be the textures overlap and cause the issue if the siding rail lines are placed further apart maybe the issue resolves its self automatically
The rail way textures do extend a ling way either side of the rail tracks ,,, just a thought :)
Yes, I actually think the same - rails are actually wider that their visible part.

Would be great is the DiFiS texture concept was allowed multiplayer to be added in a more easier way , more compatible version , like a Mask but with greater detail (shaper line content)
Yeah, making sharper is impossible but if at least it was possible to add substrates into mission without making a new map.

Still havent worked out how to rotate tiles of the carpet or add afew extra lines of carpet tiles.
There's a line in textures.ini:
orientationmap=landscape\graphics\oreintationmap.bmp
and then there are 4 more lines (don't remember exact values, but something like):
[orientation]
0 = 0
128 = 180
255 = 270
Can't check now, my gaming PC is disassembled :)
That orientation map is a bmp in which colors are represent orientation of each tile. You can find it by extracting graphics3.gtp.

New tiles are adding in similar - color-coded in "teturemap.bmp" (I think) and what each color means is stated under [texture_color] section in textures.ini
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#87 J5_Wolf

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:51

Im really looking forward to this becoming a regular part of this game….nice work indeed!
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#88 O_WolfPac

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:47

Thank you AnKor :)

I think i see what you mean and will give it a go , made new backup because i think i may mess up alot but its not the first time :P

trial and error have been my footsteps for many years
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#89 AnKor85

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:35

I've made some SVG files from ingame INI for all 3 maps (note that Verdun and Lake don't have trenches).
So, if anyone is curious to see - take them here: http://dl.dropbox.co...dsystem-svg.zip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://dl.dropbox.co...dsystem-svg.zip

Though I have to say I'm not familiar with any appropriate SVG editors and just tried a free one "Inkscape" but didn't like it at all.
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#90 O_WolfPac

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:59

If this is an exact conversion Ankor the railway Yards and Stations can be added to this template and then once all stations are added converted back again :)


Thank you :)

Thank YOU VERY MUCH !!!

This also could be the way we can move the trench lines and have NEW MASK Files to Accommodate the new trench line placement ,,, the only other thing that would be required is to move the No.mans-land Dust in the air above the mud and i found the texture file by accident afew days ago :P


So again

THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH !!!
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#91 ROSS_DiFiS

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 13:31

Import SVG format to CorelDraw succes!

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#92 O_WolfPac

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 13:42

:) DiFiS


THANK YOU !
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#93 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 13:52

Go go go! :D

So, theoretically we could have a set of maps reflecting different states of the war.
So have a 1916 and 1917 Map in the dropdownmenue?
Something that would be wonderful for the careermodus.
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#94 hq_Jorri

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 13:56

Great!
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#95 SYN_Vander

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 14:21

Oh yes! We really need a "Hindenburg Line" map (March 1917 - March 1918)

Image
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#96 redcoat22

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 16:27

Could you imagine if this was put into the career to reflect historical ground offensives!
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#97 AnKor85

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 18:08

While I would love to see a different frontlines for different periods of war this seems to be a hard work.

First of all the map should evolve: as Rama pointed out on page 4 - railway station in Cambrai was only 2 tracks in 1914 but was extended during the war. And I'm sure this is not the only case. Maybe not many but still require additional effort to make thing more historical.

Then the trences. It may not be obvious but they contain more points than all railways and roads combined on the main map. Look at the second screenshot by DiFiS and see how many lines are there representing trenches, how often they turn and have interconnections. Of course we can move them as a whole, stretch some parts and cut others, nobody will notice anyway… though I've seen some topic here telling that we have unhistorical trenches :roll:

As for adding maps into the career mode I believe the main issue will be not something technical but getting squadron placement and stuff like mission objectives right.

You see - something like the railyard from the first page can be drawn in a matter of minutes, but to get things right you need a lot of research before and a lot of testing afterwards. So drawing is just one small part of the task.

Anyway, the main question here: is there anyone who really can spend his time to work on new maps?
Let's assume that we have user-friendly mapping tools (right now we don't, but it can be amended), but do we have users for these tools?
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#98 VonSensburg

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 21:22

I'm using Adobe Illustrator daily so if You need any help with it just tell me.
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#99 MarcoRossolini

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 21:34

If historic trench maps are part of the bargain, I'll be more then happy to help in anyway, though I'll be relegated to carrying the biscuits most likely because of my wondrous (lack of) technical skills.
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#100 MarcoRossolini

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 21:35

Hmm, I wonder if the aerial photographs in the IWM could be accessed if someone was suicidal enough to volunteer themselves for it.
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#101 Rama

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 22:27

Anyway, the main question here: is there anyone who really can spend his time to work on new maps?
Let's assume that we have user-friendly mapping tools (right now we don't, but it can be amended), but do we have users for these tools?

You're right, that's one of the 2 main questions.
There are many possible maps to build if some peoples are ready to work hundreds of hours on them.

The other main question is about collecting the needed data to built these maps (the historical maps, etc…)….
As an example, for the Italian front map, altitude map and water map are done… continuing the work is impossible without the proper historical maps.
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#102 Laser

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 22:40

How about, just to make "your hand at it" (the knowhow, le savoir faire) - how about a small, fictional multiplayer map? It could have interesting lakes, rivers and mountains (if possible) so that many interesting (strategic?) and fictional SP/MP missions may benefit from it. The tools could also continue to develop (get feedback) along with the map.
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#103 Rama

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 23:01

How about, just to make "your hand at it" (the knowhow, le savoir faire) - how about a small, fictional multiplayer map? It could have interesting lakes, rivers and mountains (if possible) so that many interesting (strategic?) and fictional SP/MP missions may benefit from it. The tools could also continue to develop (get feedback) along with the map.

I don't know who's "you", but if I'm concerned, here's my answer:
1) I don't need to "make my hand at it", at least for "making mountains, rivers, lakes, roads, railroads, etc…". Textures and 3D buildings is another story, but for other peoples who have the skills to build them (and making maps is a team work anyway).
2) There's no way I will work on a fictional map. Never did (neither for IL2 or for RoF) and never will.
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#104 Laser

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 23:19

How about, just to make "your hand at it" (the knowhow, le savoir faire) - how about a small, fictional multiplayer map? It could have interesting lakes, rivers and mountains (if possible) so that many interesting (strategic?) and fictional SP/MP missions may benefit from it. The tools could also continue to develop (get feedback) along with the map.

I don't know who's "you", but if I'm concerned, here's my answer:
1) I don't need to "make my hand at it", at least for "making mountains, rivers, lakes, roads, railroads, etc…". Textures and 3D buildings is another story, but for other peoples who have the skills to build them (and making maps is a team work anyway).
2) There's no way I will work on a fictional map. Never did (neither for IL2 or for RoF) and never will.

Thanks for answer, Rama. Yes it wasn't aimed at you as i supposed from the start that you know what you're doing. So it is a question for the other people who want to develop either new maps, or those working on the new tools, and also as a possible semi-solution for the problem of "hard to get/place historical data".
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#105 O_WolfPac

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 00:50

Hi

Roads , rail and trenches and even mud and dust in the air over nomansland will work on Fictional Maps And it is something new to fly over this would work while we wait for..

"The English Channel Map" or other historical maps

In Il-2 many campaign competitions used a fictional map of africa and also a mountains map for SEOW or scortched earth style game play.
The Campaigns some multiple spawn some coop style , but they worked.


I think fictional maps made "correctly" would work while proper historical maps are made siliently and with out pressure to complete.
Adding objects like Castle or desert village settlements or palm tree and bush / shrubs , dare i say it a 3D MODEL trench with soldiers in the trench ,,,is what will hold off fictional maps as the public/3rd part can not add content.
We know what triangle/ polygon limits ,we know diffuse rule and res ,we even know to collapse all before export and have the exporter , but the missing link is how to use the exporter correctly and how to make collision model file ( .Col files )

Imagine a 3d model crater that is spawned in on a direct hit on an airfield so it makes taking off from that airfield just that bit more harder afterwards :) , the normal graphic crater texture appears above an actual 3D crater with collision model , not hard to add content like this to a bombs sequence of events.
The 3d crater can be a timer event and vanish on reset of timer just like the graphic textured crater but a little longer time duration.

As mentioned above a 3D trench line with soldiers ,,, so many imagine this, want this :)

Questions pop into my mind of How Large can a 3d object be in rof can one 3d object be 200m long ,500m long , 1 km ? or only 50m = train station , but train station is multiple 3d objects within one mission editor object so multiple trenchlines is possible … granted animation may have to wait or be compromised for greater coverage of trench lines….

3d object content is the next goal

how to export correctly and make damage model and collision model file.
Simple wooden crate as example is all thats needed.

I have mentioned all this in the past , but alas it was not actioned or taken seriously

Edited post as i miss read a different post :)
Best Regards
Tony
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#106 redcoat22

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:45

I would merely suggest a pre and post Hindenburg line map for the career. That represents the largest movement of the trenches from 1915 until near the end of the war.

Baby steps
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#107 SYN_Vander

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:00

I would merely suggest a pre and post Hindenburg line map for the career. That represents the largest movement of the trenches from 1915 until near the end of the war.

Baby steps

+1

I like all the creative ideas posted here, but it take a ridiculous amount of time to do with a high chance of not finishing it.

If there would be some tools ( don't need to be polished) I would love to make a Hindenburg line map, but it means I can't work an another campaign…..again choices!
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#108 AnKor85

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:38

Choices… And I still want to make a mission editor! :)

Ok, let's say we want to remake the main ROF map with different front line. What we need:
- Height map and rivers - most likely unchanged so we don't need to bother with it (unless you want to show results of Battle of Messines). But if needed - height map and rivers are just bitmaps, easy to edit.
- Forests - may need some alteration, again easy to edit as bitmap.
- Textures - obviously reusing the original. Although may add a few tiles or substrates for some details. Thus need a tile and substrate placement tool.
- Roads, lines, trenches - need specialized vector editor, too tedious to use Corel, Illustrator or any other general purpose tool.
- Processing - some official tools are available but may be hard to use, need to integrate them together for processing map sources "in one click".

Making 3D objects is beyond my interests and knowledge so I can't help with that.

So, perhaps I can make a all-in-ode map editor that will allow to work with different map features as layers thus making it easier to see the results. Plus it will have some processing tools built right into it. Actually this is very straightforward task compared to mission editor.

I can't promise anything but I'll look into it. I can reuse rendering code that I've already made for ME and add some editing features on top of it.
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#109 ROSS_DiFiS

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:54

combined height+river+forest+allroads

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#110 O_WolfPac

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 09:29

DiFiS :)

You got Water !!!

can we now correct Very ,very old mistakes on the map ?

Image
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#111 SYN_Vander

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 09:32

One very important thing:

If we do a new version of the Western Front map, with different trench lines, which files should be updated/added and how big are they?
We have to keep in mind the upload costs for 777 if you add this to an update.
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#112 O_WolfPac

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 09:56

moving nomansland you would have to make a new map name Landscape_Date or something else.

Thats for starters.

Then i think its best to leave alone the height file as its two files linked via bat files i think , could be wrong here but ,,, same for water i think.
Forests would be cut by the mask files so no need to do anything really to trees.
( unless you wanted to correct the forests in places )

List would be roughly as below

Mask files duplicated and placed within the new Landscape_Date folder.
Approx 72 old files corrected 68.0 KB each file
Approx 72 files with new nomansland added 68.0 KB each file
in total approx 9.0 MB

Mini map files and text documents for mini map data to show ingame approx 126 MB size

The texture file that controls the dust in the air over nomansland.
Data for roads corrections
Data for Rail corrections
Data for Trench lines corrections
Road rail,trench files would not be much more than lets say Approx 155 MB in total

Any DDS files of Cities that may need to be retextured because of nomansland.

Cant think of anything else required except alot of retexturing files , removing old blue mask files and adding blue in other locations.
then editing old roads ,rail, trench to new location as well as re-writing the roads n rail that would of been fixed because nomansland moved.

Could get crafty here and leave the old trench lines in location they are present then Re-Texture the original texture to a overgrown grass trenchline like its old and over grown.
Then add new trench line as current textured trench graphics :P

Just an idea i do not know history of trench lines so i havent a clue of locations or dates of locations sorry :)
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#113 O_WolfPac

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 10:28

With the example DiFiS just posted you could correct and rejoin all roads and rail lines across the nomansland we have present then retexture the present trench texture to more overgrown trench then add your dulpicated and cut and paste trench lines to the new locations ,add new mud to new location on mask while correcting old damaged ground of nomansland we have now.

not sure if that makes sense but its not far off a guideline
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#114 -bbob

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 11:15

This is excellent!

EDIT: after reading most of this thread, still have to re-read some of ankor's more technical posts because I am just a dumb artist.

But it seems like the bulk of the work is to redo the SVG files? Move trenches, rebuild roads/railway tracks? If that is genuinely the case, I would love to help out with modifying the front lines. It has been a little wet dream of mine for a while.
If we just made the results of the major pushes, it would still not be as big as just the historical skinpacks if WolfPacs numbers are right.

Something like the 19th Nov. line on this map for example:
http://upload.wikime...me_1916_map.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://upload.wikime...org/wikipedia/c … 16_map.png



On another note, there was a mention of the requirement of 3D models for certain things: If you know how to get them into the game, tell me what you need done. Also, what sort of tangent space does ROF read normals in, 3ds max compatible?
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#115 O_WolfPac

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 12:17

my example of file size is only if you moved ever square foot of nomans_land , always best to look at Max :)
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#116 -bbob

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 12:28

Very good!

Gonna try having a poke around, expect more stupid questions :D

EDIT: So these are the masking BMP's I am guessing (Composite of 117-119, Douai and W)
Image
Is there an easy system to find the exact areas you want?
Not exactly lined up with ingame grid squares, so estimates float by quite a bit the more SE you go.
Example: http://dl.dropbox.co...pComparison.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://dl.dropbox.co...pComparison.jpg


Each row is 56 squares wide, but the features on the squares does not line up perfectly without squashing them a bit X wise to fit the PDF, so I guess I will have to go by guesstimates.

Derp.
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#117 redcoat22

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 15:52

If we agree to make a pre and post Hindenburg line map for ROF, that limits it to only one new map (minus any changes to the existing map) and that seems doable. It would also be a much better representation of the WWI landscape than we have currently allowing proper squadron placement.

Question is, should we not first see if 777 would even consider using a second map so long as it meets their standards?
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#118 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 16:03

The past has shown Jason and Team are willing to put in community-stuff if it has enough quality.
And if a new map like proposed doesnt eat up more resources I don't see a reason why not.
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#119 redcoat22

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 16:21

The past has shown Jason and Team are willing to put in community-stuff if it has enough quality.
And if a new map like proposed doesnt eat up more resources I don't see a reason why not.

Yes, but a second map would require coding to have it replace the current map once the Germans redeploy their army to the Hindenburg line in 1918.
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#120 Rama

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 17:23

Then i think its best to leave alone the height file
No, the height map will have to be edited (if you recreate roads and railroads in parts of the actual no-mans-land, you need to flatten the height map on and around the roads and railroads locations).
But once it's done, if for following modification you only have to remober some roads and railroads parts… then the same height map can be kept.

Data for roads corrections
Data for Rail corrections
I can provide the historical maps to digitize these corrections.

With the example DiFiS just posted you could correct and rejoin all roads and rail lines across the nomansland
You need historical maps to do this.
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