Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

New NVIDIA Beta Drivers Add FXAA


  • Please log in to reply
126 replies to this topic

#41 Rivet

Rivet
  • Posts: 272

Posted 11 April 2012 - 21:31

Thanks for that suggestion Tanyrhiew . I tried it but still have shocking tearing. I'm sorry to say that there's absolutely no noticeable difference for me. It looks like I definitely need vsync enabled whether it should be or not. Incidentally what is your system? The relevant bits of mine are as follows:

GTX 570 @ superclocked settings (Drivers: 301.24 beta)
i7 2600k @ 4.11 (no reason to clock it more)
8Gb Ripjaws 1600
Gigabyte Z68 UD7-B3 Mobo.
Crappy 22" monitor 1680x1050 native res. 60 MHz refresh rate.

NVIDIA Adaptive VSync, an automated technique that disables VSync when frame rates fall below the locked rate, and re-enables it when they return to the locked rate, significantly reducing stuttering whilst still preventing tearing)"….it has to be enabled somewhere and that place is the ROF control panel. Otherwise you are "adapting" nothing.

Well that's how I interpreted it and it's the only way so far I can prevent tearing.

@ Bender
I've no idea any more mate. It looked bloody awful for me when I had in game AA set to zero. The FXAA alone did seem better than nothing, so I suppose in that respect it works. It took me 3 game re-start attempts to get through all the various graphic artifacts and corruptions first though :shock:.

I think I'm getting a bit tired for all this for now, so I'm going back to my other settings you said you were using.

Good luck chaps, but I've had enough for today.
  • 0

#42 der_zahn

der_zahn
  • Posts: 243

Posted 11 April 2012 - 22:03

Same here Rivet I saw no difference with the RoF VSync disabled and adaptive enabled it was still tearing pretty bad. I did see improvement with VSync enabled via the RoF launcher and adaptive set via the Nvidia control panel though. The game seemed to run a bit smoother.
  • 0

#43 Hellbender

Hellbender
  • Posts: 3321
  • LocationMadrid, Spain (originally Brussels, Belgium)

Posted 11 April 2012 - 23:56

Gentlemen, I've got it!

You need to DISABLE Rise of Flight's post effects for FXAA to work. They are apparently incompatible.

So yes, you will lose all of RoF's post processing. In return you get the smoothest picture I've ever seen without super sampling. It even smoothens things only high levels of transparency antialias would smoothen (compare how smooth hangars look, before and after). I'll have to admit that it's a little "watercolour" blurry, though. For those of you familiar with Photoshop: think Median Filter at the lowest possible setting.

I guess I kinda like it, it adds an artistic touch on the whole. I'm sure others won't, you do lose crispness. Try it for yourself.



In the Nvidia CP:

    FXAA - On Anti-aliasing mode - Application-controlled (rest doesn't matter, although I must say I hate adapative vsync, it causes lots of tearing here)



In the RoF launcher:

    Post effects - unchecked Antialiasing - 2x (minimum for FXAA to work) or 4x (looks great) or 8x (don't see much difference with 4x) (rest doesn't matter)



You will notice that it works right away when you start the game. Look very closely at the text of RoF's welcome message during the loading screen (under the logo). It looks a little… odd. FXAA is smoothing this too.



In short: It works, but we need official FXAA support in the RoF launcher. Some people will like it, some won't. It does smoothen everything, including GUI elements.
  • 0

J5_Hellbender


#44 SYN_Mars

SYN_Mars
  • Posts: 137

Posted 12 April 2012 - 00:09

re: adaptive vsynch - works as designed on my PC. Enabling vsynch in ROF will cause that flag to override the CP setting…

Adaptive vsynch means that you will see tearing when your framrate drops below your refresh rate as vsynch is turned off at that point.

Bender - check your AA settings in the CP. FXAA does work with ROF's post effects - both the nvidia driver setting and the injector methods that I've been using for months work(the SMAA injector works also). FXAA is applied after ROF'S post effects. I create a profile for ROF in the nvidia CP. Changes will the appear in the ROF profile within nvidia inspector.

I was running rof with post effects and FXAA at a res of 2560 x 1440 downsampled (fixed in these drivers) to 1080p quite happily to check the effect of the brute force 'supersampling' on shimmering.

You have to love nvidia's driver support.
  • 0

#45 Hellbender

Hellbender
  • Posts: 3321
  • LocationMadrid, Spain (originally Brussels, Belgium)

Posted 12 April 2012 - 00:21

What am I doing wrong, Tanyrhiew?

As soon as I enable Post effects in the RoF launcher, it reverts to non-FXAA.

These are my settings (I have a GTX 570), adaptive vsync is disabled:


Attached File  2012-04-12_01.png   116.32KB   297 downloads

Attached File  2012-04-12_02.png   138.61KB   297 downloads
  • 0

J5_Hellbender


#46 SYN_Mars

SYN_Mars
  • Posts: 137

Posted 12 April 2012 - 00:29

You have FXAA enabled globally in the nvidia CP also turn off 4x AA in ROF as they will be canceling each other out…

Run rof with no AA enabled in both rof and the CP (make sure you dont have any set in the global profile as that will take effect if nothing is set within your rof CP profile)

Run ROF to confirm you see jaggies.

Enable FXAA within your rof CP profile (not globally!)

Behold x4 MS AA effect for the fps cost of x2 MS AA (rather more important to me with my pitiful 460m than your 570!)

excuse any spln & grmr - typd pst pub!
  • 0

#47 arthursmedley

arthursmedley
  • Posts: 803

Posted 12 April 2012 - 00:43

Bloody hell, these drivers have even given CLoD FSAA - at last!
  • 0

#48 Hellbender

Hellbender
  • Posts: 3321
  • LocationMadrid, Spain (originally Brussels, Belgium)

Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:02

Thanks, man. I did all that, sadly it's not working.


I made the change in the CP (both globally and for the rof profile):




I re-enabled Post effects and disabled Antialiasing in the RoF launcher:




Result: jaggies, no AA at all.




If I want FXAA, I need to both increase Antialiasing to 2x, 4x or 8x and disable Post effects in the RoF launcher.




If I increase Antialiasing but leave Post effects enabled, I get regular non-FXAA antialiasing (it's easy to tell the difference, there's no smoothing of transparent textures, there's no "watercolour" blur and the GUI elements remain clear).

For some reason, it looks to me like FXAA is being added on top of the regular Antialiasing, since increasing AA makes the image smoother and smoother. This is the same in other games which I've tested (Guild Wars, Kerbal Space Program, Minecraft).

I am utterly confused.
  • 0

J5_Hellbender


#49 BroadSide

BroadSide
  • Posts: 2057

Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:36

Up to this point, the only way to get the Sparse Grid Supersampling (AA-transpaarency Supersampling in Inspector) to work was to disable post effects. This has been the case for a couple of years now. I've never been able to run post effects since its inception (even during it's beta), due to its canceling out Inspector's settings. There was some confirmation of this quite some time ago by Han (IIRC)…it's an either or thing: Post Effects OR 3rd party AA application.

I'll dl these drivers and give them a workout this weekend when I have time. Great posts everyone!
  • 0

#50 Panthercules

Panthercules
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 16178

Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:47

Up to this point, the only way to get the Sparse Grid Supersampling (AA-transpaarency Supersampling in Inspector) to work was to disable post effects. This has been the case for a couple of years now. I've never been able to run post effects since its inception (even during it's beta), due to its canceling out Inspector's settings. There was some confirmation of this quite some time ago by Han (IIRC)…it's an either or thing: Post Effects OR 3rd party AA application.

I'll dl these drivers and give them a workout this weekend when I have time. Great posts everyone!

Actually, for the past several patch releases I've been able to force SG-SSAA via the special purpose nVidia SSAA tool (not "Inspector") and still have post effects enabled in RoF (so I can have the raindrops), and I get fine AA and no jaggies or shimmering.

I haven't finished playing around with the new beta drivers, so I can't tell whether the FXAA thingy is going to accomplish anything for me (it hasn't yet :( ), but the SSAA tool still works with those drivers as well as the earlier 296.10 ones, even though they were originally released with the 25x series drivers.
  • 0

New "Useful Materials" page now available: http://riseofflight....ks/#entry628960
Useful Skinning-related Info:  http://riseofflight....g-related-info/  
Spammers banned while still online:


#51 BroadSide

BroadSide
  • Posts: 2057

Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:58

Ahh, yes, you are correct. I remember using that tool after Nhancer stopped working, but before Inspector :)
Good catch!
  • 0

#52 SYN_Mars

SYN_Mars
  • Posts: 137

Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:18

@Bender - now i r confuse cos it bloomin works for me!

Did you do a clean install of the drivers? If not you may have something left over from a previous driver that is screwing up. Note the clean install option is available when choosing advanced instead of express setup.

As far as I know, FXAA should work on any nvidia chip these drivers support in the manner I've described. If they still do not then they are a beta, maybe they missed the 570 off the list!

I'm running the notebookd verde version of the drivers so wonder if there is a difference between the notebook and desktop versions. Don't think there is apart from power management.

Re: supergrid sampling - only works for me in post effects on mode and using ROF aa. FXAA works in addition too, e.g x2 AA in ROF, x2 grid supersampling and FXAA as a cheaper x4AA on top.
  • 0

#53 ZaltysZ

ZaltysZ
  • Posts: 1638

Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:35

Don't use FXAA if you can use SSAA, or you will be killing the quality. Use it only, if you can't afford SSAA (especially if you want post effects).

FXAA is just a fancy algorithm which tries to detect and blur edges on a 2D picture without knowing anything about actual 3D objects. It can blur edge of the wing, but it can also blur a patch of the skin and so on. Look at distant planes in RoF: dots are somewhat harder to spot with FXAA, and silhouettes pulse sometimes (because FXAA sometimes tries to blur them, sometimes it doesn't).
  • 0

#54 SYN_Mars

SYN_Mars
  • Posts: 137

Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:08

Using FXAA on top of x2 ROF aa does improve things for me - makes it easier to spot distant planes over just x2 AA alone.

Supergrid sampling reduces shimmering but works only in conjunction with an MS AA mode set in ROF. Would really like to see a non MS AA transparency aliasing mode implemented in ROF that does not require AA to be set in ROF with post effects on. That way just FXAA could be used for AA and the non MS AA transparency aliasing used to combat shimmer.
  • 0

#55 Rivet

Rivet
  • Posts: 272

Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:00

Wow it's been busy in here.

having read through the new posts I've tried all suggestions with the following results:

I tried Benders settings with a small difference as shown below.

Image

Image

With these settings it looks like FXAA is working although I didn't notice any blurring. Mind you my eyes aren't what they used to be. ;)

Here's some in game shots with these settings:

Image

Image

Image

Image

I think it's safe to say that whilst it's not perfect there IS an effect which is way better than no AA at all.

Tanyrhiew, I also tried the settings you suggested to Bender and got the same results as he did. It just didn't work for me. Also I can't get the FXAA to work at all with post effects on.

I have the same card as Bender. GTX570

No one has mentioned any graphical glitches, mainly in ROF's menu screens and hangar screen. Occasionally in game too.

I think I'm going to do a re-install of the drivers and see if that resolves the intermittent glitches. I always do a clean install but you never know.

Bender, you're not the only one getting confused mate. :?

I do like my post processing effects though and I'd rather not have to give them up.
  • 0

#56 Hellbender

Hellbender
  • Posts: 3321
  • LocationMadrid, Spain (originally Brussels, Belgium)

Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:07

Great to hear, Rivet! I feel less lost already.

If you own the Halberstadt by any chance, you'll immediately see that FXAA does a much better job at smoothing the wooden ring around the gunner than regular AA does. Another example is the Camel's fuel cap.

For the best visual results I think I'm going to stick with FXAA on (globally) in Nvidia CP and 4X AA in RoF.
  • 0

J5_Hellbender


#57 ZaltysZ

ZaltysZ
  • Posts: 1638

Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:15

For the best visual results I think I'm going to stick with FXAA on (globally) in Nvidia CP and 4X AA in RoF.

If you put it globally, it will affect everything: web browsers, which use video hw acceleration, video players and etc. Be prepared for weird stuff. :)
  • 0

#58 SYN_Mars

SYN_Mars
  • Posts: 137

Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:11

Yup FXAA will be applied to anything that uses accelerated graphics. The ATI crowd had the same confusion with MLAA ATI/AMD's FXAA equivalent. From that tomshardware link I posted several pages back it mentions that it has a similar effect to supersampling. Any of the ATI crowd care to comment on the effect of MLAA on shimmering?

Probably not considering the thread subject (thought I'd better say it before someone else did)
  • 0

#59 Rivet

Rivet
  • Posts: 272

Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:15

Ok, before I go any further I'm going to try to get rid of the graphical glitches I'm experiencing seemingly randomly. I'll re-seat my graphics card and re-install the drivers and make sure they go in clean. Then I'll be back with a bit more testing.

Bender, I did try your exact settings and it did look stunning but I want to do it again after I re-install my card and drivers just to be sure everything's as it should be. Shouldn't take too long.

Tanyrhiew,
As you say you have FXAA and Adaptive V-Sync working "as designed", would you mind posting some images of your settings so that we may copy them exactly. Then we'll know for sure whether your settings work for the rest of us or not. Thanks :)
  • 0

#60 SYN_Mars

SYN_Mars
  • Posts: 137

Posted 12 April 2012 - 13:14

Right, here goes:

upper half of global NV CP profile
Attached File  global1.PNG   22.01KB   173 downloads

lower half of global NV CP profile
Attached File  global2.PNG   21.69KB   173 downloads

upper half of rof NV CP profile:
Attached File  cprof1.PNG   28.08KB   173 downloads

lower half of rof NV CP profile:
Attached File  cprof2.PNG   27.67KB   173 downloads

Rof config for FXAA only and post effects:
Attached File  rofpostfxaaonly.PNG   169.85KB   173 downloads

Laptop has a 1080p 60Mhz screen as seen here
Attached File  res.PNG   14.28KB   173 downloads

Hanger showing the FPS limited to half the refresh rate without being set or limited in rof config screen. FXAA does not show in screenshots but the plane (and in game) is aliased.
Attached File  rof 2012-04-12 13-59-50-94.jpg   294.02KB   173 downloads

When in flight, the adaptive vsynch works as it says on the tin. If the fps is above half the refresh rate then vsynch is enabled (no tearing). If the fps drops below the refresh rate then the vsynch is turned off (you see tearing) to prevent the higher drop in fps that normal vsynch would give. Its a compromise solution that works well to keep fps up and appearing smooth while minimising tearing when using no vsynch at all.
  • 0

#61 Rivet

Rivet
  • Posts: 272

Posted 12 April 2012 - 16:02

Tanyrhiew, thanks very much for that. I've only just got back to the PC. A neighbour just asked me for a favour cutting some paving flags for him. He's 92 and still doing jobs around the house and garden. I couldn't let him loose with a dirty great angle grinder at his age.

I've also cleaned out my machine, re-seated the graphic card and re-installed the drivers clean. Man there was enough muck in there to plant grain crops, harvest them and feed a small country for a month :lol: . I really shouldn't let it get that bad :oops: . On the upside of all that a quick test showed no more graphic glitches, so that's good.

I'll get back to testing soonest.

Thanks again for those screens :)
  • 0

#62 SYN_Mars

SYN_Mars
  • Posts: 137

Posted 12 April 2012 - 16:33

Sounds like someone has had a busy day!

Week off work so plenty of time to do fps testing as I'm away from my G940 so no flying. Its a bugger watching the AI fly your plane for you - no don't do that you…oh too late.
  • 0

#63 Hellbender

Hellbender
  • Posts: 3321
  • LocationMadrid, Spain (originally Brussels, Belgium)

Posted 12 April 2012 - 20:52

Alright gents, I'm finally finished testing this.

Turns out FXAA does work with AA completely disabled (quite well, even).



Whatever I do, though, post effects must be disabled in the RoF launcher for FXAA to work.

In the Nvidia control panel, I've simply put FXAA either on or off depending on the test. All AA settings were changed from within the RoF launcher.



Comparison


    Open these images in separate tabs (clicking an image should open a new tab) and go back and forth between tabs to compare. The most dramatic result is definitely 0x AA FXAA off > 0x AA FXAA on, although the wires still look bad. I'll also ask you to compare 4x AA FXAA off > 4x AA FXAA on. The differences are subtle (wires, trees, machinegun…) but very much worth it for the tiny bit of lost performance. The smallest difference, I believe, is 2x AA FXAA on > 4x AA FXAA on. Maybe 2x AA FXAA on is the sweet spot in terms of looks and performance. Image Image Image Image Image Image

  • 0

J5_Hellbender


#64 Rivet

Rivet
  • Posts: 272

Posted 12 April 2012 - 22:17

Sounds like someone has had a busy day!
Yeah you could say that. I'm pretty knackered actually so I'll do a bit more testing tomorrow.


In the Nvidia control panel, I've simply put FXAA either on or off depending on the test.
I take it this is with your settings as stated here? Re: New NVIDIA Beta Drivers Add FXAA

From your test images it seems the higher you go on ROF's AA setting, the less effect the FXAA setting has. On the 4xAA example there was very little difference between the FXAA enabled or not - but the difference was there. just not as in your face as the first test with no AA via ROF's settings.

Whatever I do, though, post effects must be disabled in the RoF launcher for FXAA to work.
Strange too what you say on the Post effects thing. I really don't know what was going on there. After experiencing favourable results with it disabled I then enabled it fully expecting to get the Jaggies. However it ran the post effects and I still had good anti aliasing.

Computers! Don't you just love the inconsistency? :shock: :?

Just a little bit more testing from me tomorrow then that's it. I'm going to quit whilst I still have some sanity left.
  • 0

#65 Hellbender

Hellbender
  • Posts: 3321
  • LocationMadrid, Spain (originally Brussels, Belgium)

Posted 12 April 2012 - 23:01

Tomorrow I'll start doing some actual testing in multiplayer, see what the performance hit is from having both 4x AA and FXAA enabled (although without post effects). Maybe I'll even try going for 8x CSAA (from the Nvidia CP) combined with FXAA.

This said, if anyone reading this is looking for the cheapest possible way to get good antialiasing going, by all means disable all regular (MS)AA and enable FXAA. See my post above.
  • 0

J5_Hellbender


#66 SYN_Mars

SYN_Mars
  • Posts: 137

Posted 12 April 2012 - 23:21

FXAA using the nvidia driver will not show in any screenshots regardless of how they are taken due to FXAA being applied after the image is rendered on the gpu. The FXAA/SMAA injectors do however feature a screenshot function but their implementation of FXAA is limited by their injection method e.g. they look blurry (SMAA not so much) compared to the nvidia driver version. All of benders screenshots above show only the standard ROF AA.

Using FXAA with x4 AA is really a bit pointless as FXAA is designed to give the look of x4 MS AA for the fps cost of x2 MS AA. I have noticed however that it does have an effect on distant horizon shimmering (killed by supersampling) but only if you bank your wings by approx 10 degrees! Apparently FXAA/SMAA has trouble aliasing things that are horizontal or very thin. So if you do use FXAA don't be surprised if you fly with a bit of a list (if you see a spad/SE5 flying wing low on syndicate its probably me)

Very odd that FXAA doesn't work on Benders PC with post effects!

Re: 8CSAA that is not supported by ROF from my testing and should only work when coupled with multisampling AA of the correct number of samples (see the tomshardware link I posted pages back).

With post effects off, the only AA methods I've found that will work are the normal multisampling and combined modes (kills the distant shimmering as it includes supersampling) when using overide application settings in NV CP/inspector.

With post effects on, AA must be set by ROF and no overide in NV CP/Inspector or AA is turned off. Only supergrid sampling in addition to ROF will take effect on my PC.

Happy tinkering Bender!
  • 0

#67 BroadSide

BroadSide
  • Posts: 2057

Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:55

Bender, can you post your Control Panel settings and your RoF settings when you do your tests?
I'm hoping to get rid of inspector and the 2xSparse Grid Supersampling that *mostly* gets rid of my shimmers.
So I'll try these new beta drivers with your settings and work from there.

–I wonder if Inspector has upgraded to include the FXAA settings (the only reason to really use Inspector anyway, was to activate the transparency supersampling SGSS and to activate the 16x Anisotropic filtering –which doesnt really impact FPS at all–so hopefully the CP has everything we need now).

It would be nice to be able to have no shimmers AND use the post effects though…
  • 0

#68 Eckhart

Eckhart
  • Posts: 559

Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:23

I can confirm that Tanyrhiew's recommendations work for me! I applied the same settings as pointed out on his screenshots and I got the best anti-aliasing so far in ROF. Shimmers are gone.

Now I must say that I fly mostly in 3D now. Another side effect of the new driver with FXAA is diminished crosstalk in 3D( = ghosting for 2D). Carefully calibrating my convergence and keeping screen depth at 27% I must acknowledge that this annoying problem is clearly less present now.

By the way, the new driver accepts triple screen definitions like my 5900x1080 with bezel compensation (No need to go back and forth into the startup section with a text editor to get my triple screen resolution). With this resolution and everything else maxed out I get 40-50 FPS in 3D. I will try to record a movie in 3D for those who have Nvidia glasses; 3D in ROF is just stunning!

3D doesn't work with post effects so I don't use them. Testing post-effects in 2D doesn't show any anti-aliasing effect in my setup ( but I don't like them anyhow).

Just my 2 cents as things depend very strongly on your personal setup. :ugeek:
  • 0

#69 BroadSide

BroadSide
  • Posts: 2057

Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:18

Interesting Eck. I just tried Bender's settings and found that they work great!

First off: These drivers are a definite improvement (from my limited testing).
Secondly, I still have shimmers below 500 feet or so, but this is corrected with the 2xSGSS from Inspector.
Thirdly, I'm getting only about a 10% hit from going from 4xAA in RoF to 8xAA in RoF.

I'm flying with 2xSGSS (almost no shimmers…the FXAA IMO reduces this a bit…tho it's still there), 8x AA, FXAA on, and getting 30 FPS before startup with a full squad, and 40 or so in the air with a dozen or so AI planes.

Remember, though, that the winter textures are the worst there are for shimmering. All my tests are with the Camel Convoy mission in missions/scenarios. That's as ugly as RoF is going to get, as far as shimmers go…however, getting it passable on that mission, makes all the other missions quite great!

For the sake of argument, I was getting 45fps on the ground, same mission w/o the 2xSGSS enabled and 8xAA. But the shimmers were too much for me. As Panthercules noted earlier, the SGSS tool by nvidia is a great option, and I think Inspector is as well, since SGSS destroys the shimmers (IIRC, 4xSGSS makes it almost as smooth as glass, but the FPS hit is brutal–I posted a ton of data about this a few years back if you want more data on the SGSS tool).
  • 0

#70 Hellbender

Hellbender
  • Posts: 3321
  • LocationMadrid, Spain (originally Brussels, Belgium)

Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:54

FXAA using the nvidia driver will not show in any screenshots regardless of how they are taken due to FXAA being applied after the image is rendered on the gpu. The FXAA/SMAA injectors do however feature a screenshot function but their implementation of FXAA is limited by their injection method e.g. they look blurry (SMAA not so much) compared to the nvidia driver version. All of benders screenshots above show only the standard ROF AA.

That is not correct, Tanyrhiew.

My FXAA screenshots indeed show FXAA in action.


I used Nvidia's recommendation to take these screenshots, since they specifically mention that using FRAPS would not work.

In other words, I ran Rise of Flight with Full Screen unchecked and took hard screenshots by pressing ALT + PRT SC and pasting the result in an image editor.


Source:

http://www.geforce.c...ivers-released/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.geforce.c...hats-new/articl … -released/
  • 0

J5_Hellbender


#71 catchov

catchov
  • Posts: 3986

Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:59

I used Nvidia's recommendation to take these screenshots, since they specifically mention that using FRAPS would not work.

I wonder if there's any consequences converting video footage using fraps?
  • 0

#72 SYN_Mars

SYN_Mars
  • Posts: 137

Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:03

I stand corrected (should have read the small print). Excellent news - I'll show what it looks like in game for me.
  • 0

#73 Hellbender

Hellbender
  • Posts: 3321
  • LocationMadrid, Spain (originally Brussels, Belgium)

Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:16

Thanks, mate! Really looking forward to seeing those.

What I like most about having FXAA enabled on top of MSAA is the full image smoothing going on, including the bits MSAA typically doesn't smooth. In my eyes it feels a lot like it complements 4x MSAA (and even 8x MSAA), without the performance hit of using Super Sampling.

It also seems to do more for transparent textures (and cost less in terms of performance) than actually enabling transparency AA, but I could be mistaken.
  • 0

J5_Hellbender


#74 Rivet

Rivet
  • Posts: 272

Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:56

I can confirm that Tanyrhiew's recommendations work for me! I applied the same settings as pointed out on his screenshots and I got the best anti-aliasing so far in ROF. Shimmers are gone.

I asked Tanyrhiew to post those screens of his settings so there would be no confusion. I wanted to make sure I had them exactly. I can confirm that having tried them (I checked and double checked I'd copied them exactly) that they do not work for me.

Now, both myself and Bender are running GTX570's. Those settings are not working for us.

Please correct me if this is not the case

Tanyrhiew and Eckhart are running 400 series cards and report the settings do work. I don't know for sure if the differences between the two series of cards really has that much of an effect but it seems a hell of a coincidence.

It also looks like my screenshots are irrelevant up to this point as I didn't take them as per nvidia's recommendations.

please note that Fraps and other frame grabbing applications cannot display the FXAA improvements as FXAA is a shader-based technique. Instead, run the game in a window, and press Alt and Print Screen simultaneously to grab an FXAA anti-aliased screenshot.

The above is the relevant part of the text from nvidia that bender provided the link to.

Armed with this info I'll try again with new screenshots. Like Bender, I'm also looking forward to seeing Tanyrhiew's screenshots.
  • 0

#75 =AH=_Sid

=AH=_Sid
  • Posts: 1229

Posted 13 April 2012 - 15:09

Finally got a chance to load the new drivers and have a play.

By the way, the new driver accepts triple screen definitions like my 5900x1080 with bezel compensation (No need to go back and forth into the startup section with a text editor to get my triple screen resolution).
As Eckhart says, great news for us triple screen users, the ROF Game launcher finally recognises the bezel corrected resolutions and can be set from there.

Image

Image

I use these setting in ROF.

Image

Note: I don't use "Shadows" or "Reflection" and fly in a bezel corrected resolution of 3945x1920 (3/4 of my triple screens natural 5260x2560), I only play ROF online in multiplayer and keeping a refresh rate of 60 is important to me for this. These setting give me a 60 fps 90% of the time with just the brief occasional drop in to the low 50s now and again.

Subjective, but using the same settings as I was with the 296.10 driver, I appear to be getting better fps with the new 301.24 driver (or should I say the fps drops bellow 60 less often and not by as much).

I tried the "Adaptive Vsync" (it worked as advertised just by selecting it in the NVIDIA Control Panel). Can't say I like the effect though, basically when my system does drop below 60, Vsync disables and I get a lot of screen tearing around the spinning prop graphic. Using just the normal in-game Vsync, I'm pushed to be able to tell the fps has dropped below 60 without FRAPS running, certainly no stutters. So I won’t be using this feature.

The FXAA feature works well for me (including with ROF "Post Effects" on). After a few tests, using it on top of normal 4 x AA seems to be the sweet spot for me.

A few picture for you (taken in the Nvidia approved way)

NVIDIA Control Panel setting without FXAA

Image
Image

NVIDIA Control Panel setting with FXAA

Image
Image

i.e. Nvidia’s Rise of Flight default profile without and with the FXAA selected

FXAA OFF on the LEFT, FXAA ON on the RIGHT.

Text ever so slightly less crisp on the splash screen.

Image

Taken in the Hanger.

Image

Text very similar.

Image

Aircraft edges appear much smoother though.

Image

Image

Close ups from the cockpit looking left

Image

Image

Close ups from the cockpit looking right

Image

Image

FPS wise the FXAA feature appeared not to cause a noticeable hit for me, so I'll be keeping this turned on.

I'm still seeing a small amount of shimmering with distant objects, but setting "Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias" to Clamp gives me the best overall picture.

Image
  • 0

#76 =AH=_Sid

=AH=_Sid
  • Posts: 1229

Posted 13 April 2012 - 15:33

Up to this point, the only way to get the Sparse Grid Supersampling (AA-transpaarency Supersampling in Inspector) to work was to disable post effects. This has been the case for a couple of years now. I've never been able to run post effects since its inception (even during it's beta), due to its canceling out Inspector's settings. There was some confirmation of this quite some time ago by Han (IIRC)…it's an either or thing: Post Effects OR 3rd party AA application.

I'll dl these drivers and give them a workout this weekend when I have time. Great posts everyone!

Actually, for the past several patch releases I've been able to force SG-SSAA via the special purpose nVidia SSAA tool (not "Inspector") and still have post effects enabled in RoF (so I can have the raindrops), and I get fine AA and no jaggies or shimmering.

I haven't finished playing around with the new beta drivers, so I can't tell whether the FXAA thingy is going to accomplish anything for me (it hasn't yet :( ), but the SSAA tool still works with those drivers as well as the earlier 296.10 ones, even though they were originally released with the 25x series drivers.

Panthercules, what is the "special purpose nVidia SSAA tool" you're using?
  • 0

#77 Rivet

Rivet
  • Posts: 272

Posted 13 April 2012 - 15:35

HEADS UP GUYS!

Unless you take screenshots exactly as nvidia advise when testing the FXAA feature, you'll get some VERY misleading results.

First, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has all helped :S!: .
Also apologies to Tanyrhiew. It may have seemed I was doubting you. It was my mistake in taking the screnies incorrectly that led me to those conclusions.

Here are my revised findings and they are very different from my previous efforts together with the settings I used. Be prepared for a lot of screenies. Done correctly this time ;)

This time I've tried to be more organized and objective.

My base settings to start are Tanyrhiew's settings with the slight differences highlighted. Tanyrhiew's images don't show the "Texture Filtering - Anisotropic filter optimization" entry that I have for example. Also I'm discounting the V-sync option as no matter how I try with that Adaptive thing I still get tearing so it's the standard v-sync for me.

Get ready for a lot of images.

Image

Image

Image

Image


For the first screenshot, I turned OFF the FXAA in nvidia CP Program settings to get a pure non antialiased screenshot.
Subsequent screenshots use these same settings with FXAA on as shown in the nvidia CP images above.

Here is the ROF graphics settings I started with. Subsequent changes will be highlighted.
Image

Here are the results:

Image
No FXAA OR MSAA

Image
No FXAA OR MSAA

Image
FXAA ONLY

Image
FXAA ONLY

That certainly seems to have a very noticeable effect. Let's see if FXAA works with post processing effects activated.

Image

Image
FXAA + Post Effects

Image
FXAA + Post Effects

I would say that's a yes.

So it would seem that FXAA Does work (and quite well) even with no help from the normal in game AA settings. It also works (for me) with Post processing effects activated.

Let's see what effect ROF's conventional AA settings have. Now we've established Post processing works with FXAA, I'll disable post effects again for clarity.

For the remainder of the screenshots, all nvidia CP settings are as the screenshots above. I.e. FXAA is ON. The only settings changes are via the ROF launcher as highlighted. The differences in the following images may be small in some cases but they are there.

Image

Image
FXAA + 2xAA

Image
FXAA + 2xAA

Image

Image
FXAA + 4xAA

Image
FXAA + 4xAA


And finally for the perfectionists who simply MUST have the absolute best ….. :)

Image

Image
FXAA 8xAA

Image
FXAA 8xAA


Conclusions:

FXAA does have a significant effect.
ROf's in game AA settings do not cancel out the FXAA but enhance it.
You probably don't need the 8xAA setting. I find FXAA + 2xAA is eminently playable on my rig.

Adaptive V-Sync is still a mystery. :lol:

That's about it from me. I hope that info helps. And thanks once again to everyone.
  • 0

#78 Panthercules

Panthercules
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 16178

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:06

I'm glad this is working for some folks - still a bust/non-event for me though :(.

I just tried using the exact settings in the screenshots by Tanyrhiew a couple of pages ago, because I am also running a GTX 570 and I noticed some speculation about those cards.

Unfortunately, while I suppose it's possible that FXAA or some other aspects of the drivers were working with post effects on (there weren't a lot of jaggies on the wires and struts, as there would have been before with RoF AA = 0), the overall picture quality I was getting (particularly the shimmering) was so bad compared to what I've been getting with my regular settings and running SSAA at 2x that I didn't really see any point in doing any more detailed analysis on those settings. My FPS seemed worse as well - at least, I saw it several times dropping below the 30 level (half refresh rate) that it stayed pegged at (with adaptive v-synch checked) before I tried those settings from Tanyrhiew.

So, for me anyway it looks like I'll go back to my old settings (SSAA = 2x, RoF AA and AF = 8x, etc.) and wait for some more driver changes down the road. Fortunately, at those settings I'm getting great image quality and acceptable frame rates (could always use more though), with raindrops and no shimmering, and my only real problem is the spawn freezes I haven't been able to eliminate yet.

[edit] - wanted to give it one more try before I gave up on FXAA, so I ran a test with all my usual settings but with FXAA = on, SSAA = off + RoF AA=4x (since some folks seem to think that's a sweet spot of sorts) instead of my usual SSAA=2x + RoF AA=8x. Except for the shimmering (which was still terrible), the rest of the visual quality looked pretty good (no jaggies etc.). But, I hate the shimmering so bad that I can't really give up my SSAA, so it's back to basics for me till the next driver release, when I'm sure I'll spend more time playing around with these settings again.
  • 0

New "Useful Materials" page now available: http://riseofflight....ks/#entry628960
Useful Skinning-related Info:  http://riseofflight....g-related-info/  
Spammers banned while still online:


#79 Panthercules

Panthercules
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 16178

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:18

Up to this point, the only way to get the Sparse Grid Supersampling (AA-transpaarency Supersampling in Inspector) to work was to disable post effects. This has been the case for a couple of years now. I've never been able to run post effects since its inception (even during it's beta), due to its canceling out Inspector's settings. There was some confirmation of this quite some time ago by Han (IIRC)…it's an either or thing: Post Effects OR 3rd party AA application.

I'll dl these drivers and give them a workout this weekend when I have time. Great posts everyone!

Actually, for the past several patch releases I've been able to force SG-SSAA via the special purpose nVidia SSAA tool (not "Inspector") and still have post effects enabled in RoF (so I can have the raindrops), and I get fine AA and no jaggies or shimmering.

I haven't finished playing around with the new beta drivers, so I can't tell whether the FXAA thingy is going to accomplish anything for me (it hasn't yet :( ), but the SSAA tool still works with those drivers as well as the earlier 296.10 ones, even though they were originally released with the 25x series drivers.

Panthercules, what is the "special purpose nVidia SSAA tool" you're using?


This one:

http://www.mediafire...e_SSAA_Tool.zip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mediafire.../file/b7l42wcj2 … A_Tool.zip

I tried to find the link to it on the nVidia site, but when I searched it told me that part of their site was down for maintenance, so I uploaded the one I had on my hard drive. The .exe file inside the .zip file I uploaded is the same one I downloaded from nVidia's site and have been using without any apparent problem for quite a while, but of course I can't guarantee it will work for you or not mess something up, so take it with the usual disclaimers.

All I did was save the tool's .exe file somewhere and then create a shortcut to it - when I run it, it pops up a little window with 3 choices (disable, 2x, 4x and 8x) - I find 2x eliminates virtually all shimmering without too much FPS hit (for me), whereas 4x looks maybe a little better but clobbers my FPS rates. So, I just check 2x, tell it to apply, and then close it out - don't need to run it again unless you want to change it or turn it off.

Good luck!
  • 0

New "Useful Materials" page now available: http://riseofflight....ks/#entry628960
Useful Skinning-related Info:  http://riseofflight....g-related-info/  
Spammers banned while still online:


#80 =AH=_Sid

=AH=_Sid
  • Posts: 1229

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:31

Many thanks, will have a play with it. :S!:
  • 0


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users