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Does this game need flyable bombers/two-seaters?


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#1 Executioner

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 14:06

Title says it all. Use the poll to share your opinion with the others.

I want to stress that I know this is not yet a finished product and not by any means do I want to put pressure on the developers or express discontent about the course the game is currently taking (I am already quite happy, eventhough there still is a lot of room for improvement).

In my opinion, flying two-seaters would thoroughly enrich this game. Imagine being the rear-gunner, being haunted and surrounded by enemy fighters, trying to defend your plane. It would offer great variety too because the shooting is very different (a lot easier I suspect, your gun is -contrary to the fighter planes- not fixed, which can result in some very satisfying events if you're a good shooter :D. Not to mention all the other possible adventures : bombing missions, spotting, trying to shake fighters off. So all in all, flyable bombers would prove an invaluable asset for this game offering variety, tension (goose bumps :d) and amusement!

The idea of manning a gun in a Gotha GV or Handley Page 0/400 gives me goose bumps! Especially the bigger ones where your fellow gunner peers are also helping you! (for instance, the 0/400 has 5 machine guns)

Sopwith Strutter, Aviatik C1, Albatros CIII, Bristol Fighter, Gotha GV, Handley Page 0/400, Airco DH4, Bréguet 14, Voisin, Farman, Halberstadt CL II, Hannover, Roland CII, BE2, RE8, Bristol Scout, Caproni Ca4 …

wow !!! Drivin' me nuts! :shock: :shock: :shock:

I think nearly everyone will agree that bombers -created with all the detail and perfection by this wonderful company, NEOQB, would be a breathtaking aspect in this game!
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#2 J2_squid

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 14:09

Agreed that would be a fantastic feature, especially in MP.

Although I want to be the one with the gun.

No wait a minute, i want to drive… :lol:
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#3 J.j.

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 15:49

We definitively need more two seaters with the game.

I understand they need more work than a classic one seat-fighter, but I don't want them specially flyable (so no need to do a cockpit)
We just need more IA targets, because, for example, the first French aces (Fonck, Guynemer,…), won at least 60% of their victories two seaters planes.

There were more fighters vs two seaters fights, than fighters vs fighters combats.

And only 2 two seaters (DFW and Breguet) are not enough.

I hope at least 2 others two seaters will come out in the next 6 months
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#4 Executioner

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Posted 04 September 2009 - 17:26

Thanks for your replies guys, I just knew you would agree :)
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#5 Executioner

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 11:19

Next to a vote, suggestions or discussions about this subject are also desired, people! :D
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#6 Panthercules

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 17:29

Well, I keep voting for the Bristol F.2 every chance I get, 'cause it seems like the perfect choice for RoF - time appropriate to fit in with these other late war planes, and a 2-seater that actually was a pretty respectable performer as a fighter. I figure that most of the fighter-jocks who play RoF wouldn't really be all that interested in flying some lumbering 2-seater observation or bomber, but they might give the F.2 a shot. And I would really love something that two players could crew together, like we could with the 2-seaters in IL-2.
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#7 Executioner

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 20:56

Not to mention possible multiplayer options?

You're the pilot and a teammate the gunner? :D
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#8 Panthercules

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 01:53

Not to mention possible multiplayer options?

You're the pilot and a teammate the gunner? :D

Yep - that's exactly what I was referring to in my reference to IL-2 above. In that program I have flown several multi-player missions in Stukas and IL-2s with my son in my plane as the rear gunner (and vice versa) - it's very cool :D
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#9 Executioner

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 10:47

8-) *gets excited*
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#10 PatAWilson

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 16:51

First and foremost it needs two seaters - flyable or not. There were more two seaters developed and used in WWI than there were scouts. Right now the Germans have a late 1916 design. We have a single French model. No British at all.

Finish the 1918 scouts in progress (Dolphin, Pfalz D.XII, Camel, DRI) and then get some two seaters in place. Make them flyable as possible.

Suggestion: if a human manned rear gunner is too much effort then make them flyable with an AI rear gunner for starters.
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#11 Aelyshe

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 17:45

Executioner,

I agree 100%, having more two-seaters and making them flyable would thoroughly enrich this already enriched flight simulation. I would love to see a Brisfit, RE-8, LVG, Roland Walfisch, and my personal favorite, the Hannover CLIII as flyable aircraft along with the options of either two participants manning the aircraft or a single participant being able to switch between positions from pilot to rear gunner.

Where I will part company with you is where you assume that shooting is a lot easier in a rear gunner position because the guns are not fixed. I can tell you that you could not be more wrong! There is another WWI flight simulation game that I play called "Over Flanders Fields-Between Heaven And Hell" and while it is no where near as good as "Rise Of Flight" it is still a lot of fun to play. OFF gives the player the option to fly several of the popular two-seaters of WWI and also gives the player the option of choosing the pilot or gunner position.

I often fly gunner in either the Brisfit or the Hannover CLIII. When in the heat of battle, the pilot does not always fly a steady course. He will not only do his best to avoid attack by turning and jinking, but he will also occasionally attack an opponents craft which also requires a bit of turning and jinking.

Now imagine you are a rear gunner following the trajectory of an opponents aircraft in order to get a good lead for a shot and just when that moment arrives, your pilot pulls a hard turn or other manuerver, believe me, it ruins your shot every time. Of course this is a challenge and one I find really enjoyable. A moving aircraft with movable guns trying to hit a moving target, not easy at all, but a real blast to try.

One big advantage to being a rear gunner is being able to swivel your gun(s) foward as your pilot is attacking an enemy craft. You, as the gunner, can give that extra punch to help the pilot bring down the foe!

I Vote Yes

Aelyshe
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#12 Panthercules

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 17:52

Suggestion: if a human manned rear gunner is too much effort then make them flyable with an AI rear gunner for starters.

I agree completely. I'd love to be able to man these 2-seaters with 2 players, but that's completely secondary to me, especially since I only play single player. I know that sounds contradictory to my flying around with my son as rear-gunner in IL-2, but I actually only did that in some MP missions I'd created myself and then hosted just for me and my son - so it was basically still "single-player for 2" - I just made several variations of each mission with different enemy presences, and then randomized the selection of the mission each time we started so we wouldn't know what to expect - it worked great.

I loved having the AI gunner with me in real single player mode in IL-2, whether it was my IL-2 field mod, my Stuka or my Bf-110. Even if they couldn't hit the bad guys very often, at least if they started firing I knew I had company back there and could react accordingly. So, by all means don't hold up getting the 2-seaters in the game waiting to sort out player-gunner issues - you can always add that aspect in later once the planes themselves are in the game.

We definitely need more 2-seaters in the air in RoF, and besides the Bristol F2 there are bound to be at least another one or two that would be interesting enough for many players to fly, although I'd be fine with having some of them be AI-only since I'm sure some of them must have been pretty boring to fly and wouldn't spark much player interest in flying them. But the more targets, the better :)
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#13 Executioner

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 18:39

Thanks for you contribution, Aelyshe

Indeed, I can imagine it is not that easy after all… where have my thoughts been? :D Well… apparently here: if the plane flies straight ahead without any unexpected turns, then firing as a rear gunner will be fairly easy (I suspect). :D

I really hope they will put in a lot of effort in two- (or multi) seaters, which were - like someone else here correctly remarked - predominantly present in comparison to fighter planes.

I'm pretty sure they will because it's quite obviously a team driven by a dogged motivation to create the best WW1 sim ever.
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#14 hq_Jorri

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 19:02

In AHII and IL-2, even when flying straight and level I find rear gunnery extremely hard. Of course those aircraft are moving a lot faster than these birds, but geez, I couldn't make a deflection shot if my life depended on it. And luckily for me it doesn't (others were not so lucky, but hopefully for them a bit more skilled).
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#15 J.j.

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 19:25

First and foremost it needs two seaters - flyable or not. There were more two seaters developed and used in WWI than there were scouts. Right now the Germans have a late 1916 design. We have a single French model. No British at all.

Finish the 1918 scouts in progress (Dolphin, Pfalz D.XII, Camel, DRI) and then get some two seaters in place. Make them flyable as possible.

Suggestion: if a human manned rear gunner is too much effort then make them flyable with an AI rear gunner for starters.

+10, I wouldn't have said better.
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#16 CSchmidt

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 19:34

YES!

We definitely need flyable two-seater bomber in this game! They are very important to organise realistic multiplayer events…and they are very important for open multiplayer server…

But new fighter planes (like DR1, Camel, Snipe) should be released prior to the two-seater.
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#17 Executioner

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 19:36

But still, I would very much like to be the gunner myself in a beautiful rear-gunner position… :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

:mrgreen:

Childlike exuberance! :mrgreen:
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#18 Bleddyn

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 00:33

But still, I would very much like to be the gunner myself in a beautiful rear-gunner position…

If I may dream aloud….

A pilot driven campaign where your fist assignments are as the rear gunner/observer in two-seaters. Eventually progressing onto scouts after "flight training". :D

oh yeah
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#19 hq_Jorri

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 05:55

But still, I would very much like to be the gunner myself in a beautiful rear-gunner position…

If I may dream aloud….

A pilot driven campaign where your fist assignments are as the rear gunner/observer in two-seaters. Eventually progressing onto scouts after "flight training". :D

oh yeah

If I may be so bold: Booyah!
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#20 Executioner

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 12:48

If I may dream aloud….

A pilot driven campaign where your fist assignments are as the rear gunner/observer in two-seaters. Eventually progressing onto scouts after "flight training". :D

oh yeah

Smart suggestion! +1
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#21 Chaos

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 13:11

I think 2 seater planes would be great fun

This isn't rise of flight below its canvas knights I saw it today

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related"> … re=related
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#22 Welshie

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 13:28

Mines An Avro…Shes a stable Crate (Aces High)….O.K no one has mentioned the Avro 504 until they do I'm not voting ;) :lol: ….Oh and the Sopwith 1 and aHalf Strutter :D
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#23 stethnorun

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 13:34

Merged Chaos's topic. I don't think we need a thousand threads about 2 seaters. One will suffice. :)
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#24 Atelophobia

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 15:47

A two seater would be something completely new for RoF - not only as a plane but also concerning gameplay / multiplayer options. If multiseaters can't be used by more than the human pilot Im not interested anymore. Multicrew bombers (HP 0/400?) are the planes Im really waiting for since RoF came out.
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#25 FlyingShark

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 16:00

A two seater would be something completely new for RoF - not only as a plane but also concerning gameplay / multiplayer options. If multiseaters can't be used by more than the human pilot Im not interested anymore. Multicrew bombers (HP 0/400?) are the planes Im really waiting for since RoF came out.
Sorry but I don't see why there would be no more interest for multiseaters with only the pilot being able to be used. Sure it would be more fun to select gunners seat but they can always add that in an update later on.
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#26 Atelophobia

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 16:25

well, I said Im not interested anymore (read highly interested).
What's wrong about having a personal opinion and personal preferences?
The reason I want to see twoseaters is that I hope there will be a mutlicrew option.
So if this reason would be gone I see no point in being still excited…
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#27 FlyingShark

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 22:34

There's nothing wrong with having a personal opinion and I respect yours. However, I was just asking because I was wondering. What's wrong with that?
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#28 Atelophobia

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 11:51

There's nothing wrong with having a personal opinion and I respect yours. However, I was just asking because I was wondering. What's wrong with that?

Perhaps because it's pointless to discuss why I like this or that. It's like: Why don't you like arcade flight sims or beat em up games while others can have fun with it.
The point of twoseaters in MP for me is to use two seats. End of story.
I can understand that some would be still highly interessted in even completley unflyable twoseaters but this doesn't apply to me
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#29 Executioner

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 14:02

:D I was wondering what the developers think when reading this thread…
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#30 JFM

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 03:58

+10,000
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#31 VonZimmerman

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 11:55

Bombers Nay
Recon Yay

would be fun to be able to have 2 players in one plane.
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#32 Executioner

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 17:34

Bombers Nay
Recon Yay

would be fun to be able to have 2 players in one plane.

Recon planes often flew bomber missions, too … so they go hand in hand. ;)
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#33 VonZimmerman

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 07:05

When you say bombers i`m thinking of the Gotha, HP Type O, AEG G.IV.

As in big multi person bombers.

Not recon planes with the ability to carry a couple bombs :)
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#34 Executioner

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 09:02

Well okay, but it comes down to the same strategy you know. You can throw off bombs and you can have fun being the pilot/gunner of such a wonderful machine… (either a recon or a real bomber)
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#35 VonZimmerman

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 09:54

Bombs..


Why is there no German plane with the ability to drop bombs in the game?..
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#36 Executioner

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 13:18

Bombs..


Why is there no German plane with the ability to drop bombs in the game?..

Is that so?
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#37 IM.LOFT

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 13:21

Work under 2sit have been started. But no comments right now (too early…)
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#38 J99Hasso

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 14:02

Fantastic, my bomber pilots had to ask me when they can get in their flying machines. Very good, world class.
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#39 J.j.

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 16:11

Work under 2sit have been started. But no comments right now (too early…)

Can you say if two seaters will be done IA only, or flyable?
Personnally, I prefer having 2 to four IA two seaters, than having one flyable. (at least at the beginning, when we will have 3 differents two seaters for each side, Entente and Central, I'd like to fly them. But for now two seaters are really needed to do some historicals missions).

If this is really to early to ask for this IA/flyable thing, I can understand.
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#40 IM.LOFT

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 17:23

Work under 2sit have been started. But no comments right now (too early…)

Can you say if two seaters will be done IA only, or flyable?
Personnally, I prefer having 2 to four IA two seaters, than having one flyable. (at least at the beginning, when we will have 3 differents two seaters for each side, Entente and Central, I'd like to fly them. But for now two seaters are really needed to do some historicals missions).

If this is really to early to ask for this IA/flyable thing, I can understand.

Flyable.
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