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weather generator beta 1.6


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#121 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 20:45

Is it possible to import new 3d files for clouds to produce what Jason is asking for and all the other different cloudtypes?
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#122 AnKor85

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:14

That's an interesting question, though something tells me that it is modders who should ask developers about possiblities and not vice versa :)

I'm not very familiar with the subject and English terms for clouds but as I understand "thin wispy clouds" are cirrus clouds. They are high altitude (~8 km in game) and depicted using sky dome texture. There are already 3 very nice cirrus textures built into game, and it is easy to add more (even with mods OFF). I doubt 3d model for cirrus is possible in RoF and really don't see why anyone may need it - do we have planes that routinely fly at 24000 feet?

Then there's also low altitude stratus clouds that SYN_Vander mentioned: http://ed101.bu.edu/...ks/stratus.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://ed101.bu.edu/...entDoc/current/ … ratus.html
To me they look like more flat and dense version of current ones (which are cumulus). So it may be possible to model them.

I have already thought about how to to get other types into the game. Here's a picture by DiFiS that shows that current clouds are composed from a set of 16 textures:
Image
We can repaint them to make more dense and less fluffy ones than we have now. It works, it can be done with mods OFF (and most likely distributed from the server as I shown before), but I'm not an artist to do this.

3D model of any cloud is a set of points (x,y,z) defining where to render those textures, typical average weather cloud contains 200 of these points with some up to 800. They are rendered in a special way to appear as having a volume despite being flat (that's why sometimes a part of a cloud sudennly pop up over another part, this is unavoidable). This also means that we can't properly control their orientation thus making artist's job even more difficult: any texture must properly fit the cloud when rotated at any angle. That's why cumulus clouds are the easiest to make - their textures don't suffer from rotation because they look like fluffy spheres anyway.

There are other problems to think about:
- as I understand we can't control cloud placement - it is randomized with some algorithm (about which DiFiS says that he doesn't like it).
- it is almost impossible to mix different cloud types in single mission - we have only 16 textures to begin with, and even if we split them between two types we still can't place different clouds at different altitudes. DiFiS has shown that it is possible to make a single 3d model that contains two distinct clouds at different altitues but again due to lack of placement control it may be hard to actually use such model.

So… is it possible? Yes. Can we do it? Not sure.
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#123 SYN_Vander

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:52

You guys rock! I have started working with DiFis's and Ankor's tools yesterday evening and this morning. I think I managed to do a decent Altocumulus cloud with some of DiFIs's clouds.

This is a screenshot from today's Vintage Mission:
Attached File  VM_AltoCumulus.jpg   197.08KB   535 downloads

Real photo:
Image

These clouds are much higher than the cumulus we normally see in the game; from 4000-5000 m.

Some feedback on the tools:

-When you save a weather type, it only saves the cloud types used, not the fog distance, density and bitmap or the RoF weather name.

-Also I could frequently update the weather file withouth using "Patch Mission" and then load it in the Mission Editor to view it. Is there no CRC check?

I played around with the Alpha cloud editor and was already able to make some clouds. The colour seems a bit different though??
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#124 MarcoRossolini

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:28

Very nice Vander, I expect to see it soon on Syndicate, amongst others, the clouds are a bit thick though I assume that's technical limitations?

Edit: :oops: if I read correctly it's already in.
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#125 SYN_Vander

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:30

Yeah, I used some clouds that DiFIs already created. Hopefully with AnKor's Cloud editing tool I can make new cloud types with smaller "cloudlets".
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#126 hq_Jorri

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:33

Great to see you picking this up, vander - means DiFis hard work gets put to practice now on the biggest ROF server :D
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#127 AnKor85

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 12:07

Thanks! Will check out your vintage mission today :)

-When you save a weather type, it only saves the cloud types used, not the fog distance, density and bitmap or the RoF weather name.
DiFiS said he is going on vacation until May 10th, so he will perhaps fix it later. I have his source codes but don't want to change those parts without him.

-Also I could frequently update the weather file withouth using "Patch Mission" and then load it in the Mission Editor to view it. Is there no CRC check?
You are right, the only checksum is in the list file for multiplayer and I'm not even sure how it is checked. I see two possible side effects if checksum doesn't match contents of the file:
- the file will be redownloaded each time anyone connects to the server (even if player already has exactly the same copy). This assumption may be wrong and should be verified.
- new version of the file won't be downloaded those players who have old version if you change only the file but don't update the checksum. This is confirmed.

To simplify the process I can suggest following workflow:
- Take a mission and patch it with new weather once.
- Tweak the weather in DiFiS tool and "Export Weather to RoF" function while checking results in ME - you don't need patching here.
- When you finished do "Patch Mission" again to get correct .list with final checksums.
To get the list you can patch any mission (for example an empty one, to make the process faster) and then just copy lines related to weather into actual mission's list. This way the same weather files may also be shared among several missions.

Note that when you resave the mission in ME custom weather lines are removed from the list, and it may also revert weather settings back to "clear" if you change any atmosphere options.

I played around with the Alpha cloud editor and was already able to make some clouds. The colour seems a bit different though??
Colour of the clouds? There are lot of factors not accounted for, the most blatant one is that I used 16 linear steps from almost transparent to full white, but as I shown above real clouds in game use textures that may be perceived differently. And the scale of spheres is wrong, and lighting/shadowing is ignored… Everything will be tweaked as long as there is an interest.
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#128 AnKor85

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 15:19

Had a plenty of time to look at new clouds while patrolling for almost an hour :)

And they look good! But sometimes there is excessive popping in and out, not that it is very bad or distracting, but original clouds flicker less. Need to think about causes and whether it is possible to come up with an algorithm to optimize cloud models and reduce the flicker. I suspect we have to put individual points further away, but it is not that simple.
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#129 SYN_Vander

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 16:11

My solution would be: make more individual clouds in one cloud model and lower the density (density=1 should give no overlap?)
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#130 ROSS_DiFiS

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 18:48

My solution would be: make more individual clouds in one cloud model and lower the density (density=1 should give no overlap?)

Wrong :(

1. Big Cloud intersects with ground from angle if level less then 2000m.

2. Tails limit for one cloud - 2670 particles.

3. Render fog and lights only for whole cloud.
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#131 ROSS_DiFiS

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 18:56

Андрей - я не знаю как правильно объяснить на английском. Но метод проверки облаков, как они выглядят в игре следующий:

- Не нужен нам редактор.
- Загружаем генератор погоды.
- Создаем и записываем погоду с определенным именем.
- Один раз патчим файл миссии. (у меня специальная легкая миссия в комплекте).
- Загружаем РоФ не выходя из генератора погоды.
- Запускаем нашу миссию.
- Смотрим облака.
- Если что-то не нравится или хотим экспериментов - Переключаемся на генератор погоды.
- Меняем состав облаков или их очередность (это тоже влияет на картину в небе), или что угодно с помощью генератора.
- Записываем новую погоду под тем же именем - перезаписывая старую
- Переключаемся в РоФ.
- Делаем ESC - Перезапустить миссию.
- При перезапуске - погода будет новая.

Это намного быстрее, чем загружать редактор с тяжелой миссией.

P.S. Да. вот еще совет. Там с поле параметров облака есть его контрастность. по умолчанию стоит контрастность 0.3 , но если облако плотное и много партиклей друг над другом, то облако тенью покрасится в очень темный цвет снизу. Я для таких облаков контрастность уменьшаю. до 0.2.
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#132 ROSS_DiFiS

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 19:05

Облака мерцают и переключаются с одного на другое по причине дальности до центра облака.
Если облака пересекаются - то при определенных углах центр ближе то одного облака, то другого. Поэтому они перещелкивают.
Еще может быть большое облако вверху, и маленькое снизу. Но большое облако не будет закрывать собой маленькое, если центр маленького облака ближе к точке наблюдателя. Получается эффект облака в облаке. Вот это мне и не нравится. Облака не должны пересекаться.
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#133 hq_Jorri

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 22:55

The new clouds in the Syndicate mission were a big success - and I really loved them as well. Well done to all involved! Hope to see more of this.
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#134 AnKor85

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 04:41

Ну что, вот и нашли твои облака дорогу в мультиплеер :)

Понятно насчёт пересечений. Так ещё могут и отдельные точки облака друг с другом "конфликтовать" если их центры расположены близко, с этим по идее можно бороться оптимизируя облака, надо только алгоритм придумать. Если же пересекаются несколько облаков, то это серьёзная сложность, т.к. управлять этим мы толком не можем.

ENG:
DiFiS suggests testing new weather by using simple empty mission - like one that comes with his tool. Once the weather is completed you can then patch the actual mission with it. He also says that it may be faster to test mission right in game instead of the editor - just use "restart mission" in menu after doing any changes.

Да. вот еще совет. Там с поле параметров облака есть его контрастность. по умолчанию стоит контрастность 0.3 , но если облако плотное и много партиклей друг над другом, то облако тенью покрасится в очень темный цвет снизу. Я для таких облаков контрастность уменьшаю. до 0.2.
Translation:
One more advice. There is a contrast setting in cloud parameters. Default value is 0.3 but if the cloud is dense with lots of particles one above other the bottom part of the cloud will become very dark. For such clouds I set contrast to 0.2.
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#135 SYN_Vander

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:12

Ну что, вот и нашли твои облака дорогу в мультиплеер :)

Понятно насчёт пересечений. Так ещё могут и отдельные точки облака друг с другом "конфликтовать" если их центры расположены близко, с этим по идее можно бороться оптимизируя облака, надо только алгоритм придумать. Если же пересекаются несколько облаков, то это серьёзная сложность, т.к. управлять этим мы толком не можем.

ENG:
DiFiS suggests testing new weather by using simple empty mission - like one that comes with his tool. Once the weather is completed you can then patch the actual mission with it. He also says that it may be faster to test mission right in game instead of the editor - just use "restart mission" in menu after doing any changes.

Да. вот еще совет. Там с поле параметров облака есть его контрастность. по умолчанию стоит контрастность 0.3 , но если облако плотное и много партиклей друг над другом, то облако тенью покрасится в очень темный цвет снизу. Я для таких облаков контрастность уменьшаю. до 0.2.
Translation:
One more advice. There is a contrast setting in cloud parameters. Default value is 0.3 but if the cloud is dense with lots of particles one above other the bottom part of the cloud will become very dark. For such clouds I set contrast to 0.2.

Yes, that's exactly what I have been doing. :) It's quite quick; just needs a reload of the mission to see the effects.
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#136 hq_Jorri

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:18

So could you then make darker rain clouds as well?
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#137 AnKor85

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 16:06

So could you then make darker rain clouds as well?
Yes, I believe it is possible.
I've made some quick experiments but my dark clouds looked wrong against the clear blue sky: they felt more like a kind of smoke, perhaps I increased contrast way too much. In addition to contrast it is also possible to change cloud color – pink clouds anyone? :)

By the way, during my experiments I've noticed that rain only happens in overcast weather, which in turn happens if fog distance is less than some predefined value (maybe 10 km or so). Not sure if it is wrong though, I've never seen continuos rain (longer that 5-10 minutes) without overcast.

And speaking of overcast: you may know that overcast fog looks just awful from above, so bad that I thought it may be a bug when I saw it for the first time. Maybe this is old news but I have found that it is possible (to some extent) to change that overcast top layer. Although I doubt that simple editing may help there, for me it looks like a plastic which is fundamental flaw.
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#138 SarahZOOM

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 07:51

=FB=Vaal, DiFiS – загрузка облаков в мультиплеере работает!
Добавил строчки в .list файл для каждого файла, относящегося к погоде
filename="graphics/sky/tests/cloud.clt","00000001"

filename="graphics/sky/tests/sky.ini","00000012"

Все загрузилось и самое главное сработало при старте миссии. При этом моды выключены.
Единственное что надо понимать – если каждый автор будет делать облака для своих миссий, то надо, чтобы имена папок не совпадали, а то конфликты начнутся.
Я не очень понимаю что значат 8 цифр идущих в конце, видимо это какой-то случайный идентификатор для отслеживания обновлений – если файл обновился, то надо и идентификатор обновить.

Теперь разрекламируй эту функцию и продавай облака по доллару за штуку :)

Good news for those who is interested. We can use custom clouds with MODS OFF mode in multiplayer missions. All necessary files are automatically downloaded if specified in .list as shown above.
Anyone interested in this feature?


Wow! This would be a great feature!
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#139 SYN_Vander

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:35

So could you then make darker rain clouds as well?
Yes, I believe it is possible.
I've made some quick experiments but my dark clouds looked wrong against the clear blue sky: they felt more like a kind of smoke, perhaps I increased contrast way too much. In addition to contrast it is also possible to change cloud color – pink clouds anyone? :)

By the way, during my experiments I've noticed that rain only happens in overcast weather, which in turn happens if fog distance is less than some predefined value (maybe 10 km or so). Not sure if it is wrong though, I've never seen continuos rain (longer that 5-10 minutes) without overcast.

And speaking of overcast: you may know that overcast fog looks just awful from above, so bad that I thought it may be a bug when I saw it for the first time. Maybe this is old news but I have found that it is possible (to some extent) to change that overcast top layer. Although I doubt that simple editing may help there, for me it looks like a plastic which is fundamental flaw.

When RoF was just released the overcast top layer was made up of a several overlapping textures (a bit like the IL2 forests), creating the effect of depth when you flew high above them. This looked quite good, see video below. When you got down to the cloud layer however, is was not very convincing.



Later they changed it to a much simpler model you see now. I agree that the current version doesn't look as nice.
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#140 AnKor85

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:58

Wow! This would be a great feature!
Would be? :)
SYN_Vander already hosted a mission with custom clouds on Syndicate server: Vintage Mission of today: Third Battle of the Aisne

This looked quite good, see video below. When you got down to the cloud layer however, is was not very convincing.
Interesting, I didn't know about this. The older one looks definitely better, however I also see that it has some similarities to the current one, but without the "plastic" look and with a better resolution.
Part of me wants to research the issue further, but as I said I doubt it can be changed to be much better anyway.
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#141 SarahZOOM

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 18:17

SYN_Vander already hosted a mission with custom clouds on Syndicate server: Vintage Mission of today: Third Battle of the Aisne

Oh wow we can make our custom clouds downloadable to anyone who joins our server? Even if it's Mods Off? This is possible already?
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#142 AnKor85

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:14

Yes, it is possible with mods off. Please take a look at previous pages :)

In short: the latest version (1.5) of weather gen has "Patch Mission" button that updates any mission with new weather AND adds names of cloud files to special "list" that is used to download them directly from the server when player joins the game.

One important note to remember: weather files are downloaded to %ROF%\data\graphics\sky\%your-weather-name%\ so please make sure that your weather name is unique enough to avoid overwriting weather from other authors (we don't have anyone except SYN_Vander right now, but who knows). For example, don't use generic names like "Heavy Weather", better use "SarahZOOM - Heavy Weather".
And as I said - read previous pages for mode details, I think everything is covered already :)
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#143 =Fifi=

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:18

What's up for the career mode and weather generator? Any chance to get it work with it, or maybe implemented by devs?
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#144 AnKor85

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:41

What's up for the career mode and weather generator? Any chance to get it work with it, or maybe implemented by devs?
Well, I think DiFiS should answer, but he is on vacation, so I'll post my thoughts.

This weather generator is not a "generator" in a sense that it doesn't create weather automatically from nothing. It is more like a weather editor where you select a set of clouds (that are made beforehand by other tools), and can control fog and cloud density parameters. Weather gen is easy to use, but at the same time making completely new clouds requires some effort (http://riseofflight....p?f=348&t=19420" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=348&t=19420). DiFiS has made many new clouds on his own and some of them were used by SYN_Vander in Sunday's mission.
Another problem is game engine limitations related to cloud placement, which add trial and error into weather making until you get the right one.

To answer you question right now there are two ways to get weather in career:
- Enable mods and use standard weather names like "average", "heavy", etc to override predefined weather with the one you prefer.
- Or better, as DiFiS proposed (http://riseofflight....=27944&start=50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=278&t=27944&start=50): make new good-looking weather and send it to be approved by devs and added into the game (including career) as standard. They seem to be ready to do this.
However, someone has to spend his time do this, weather won't generate itself.
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#145 =Fifi=

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 07:02

Thank you for the reply, Ankor.

- Or better, as DiFiS proposed (viewtopic.php?f=278&t=27944&start=50): make new good-looking weather and send it to be approved by devs and added into the game (including career) as standard. They seem to be ready to do this.

I'm not good enough and not expert to this tool yet…but would be awesome some community clouds creators could send to devs new overcast with "holes" in it :D
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#146 AnKor85

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 13:42

A shameless self-promotion: Re: Improve clouds
My humble attempt to mod overcast cloud layer.
Image
Will work with mods OFF (if you are already using custom weather).

Attached a test version that has some glitches and requires mods ON.
Extract attached file to %ROF%\data\graphics\sky
Start mission editor and choose "precipitation" weather. Enjoy :)

Attached Files


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#147 catchov

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:06

:shock: Looking good AnKor85. :D
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#148 hq_Jorri

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:50

Ooh..will have to try that one when I get home!
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#149 AnKor85

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 13:03

Jorri, catchov, my "mod" doesn't look that good in game. The picture was taken at a good angle, that's all. I just wanted to show that overcast clouds can be modified too.

I've made some comparison pictures for my another attempt (this time I've used Photoshop's Render->Clouds filters): Re: Сплошная облачность - вид сверху
That post is in Russian and doesn't really worth translating, but my point was that original clouds are kind of lazily made while they could be better.
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#150 J5_Rumey

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:55

Hi,

was just playing around with this again and seems that when I patch missions for single player they show up as that I have to buy a map for it. The map is the normal map but with weather and clouds I made using cloud editor and weather generator. When I click the button, it sends me to buy the channel map witch I own. So my question is has this excellent tool been made useless by the introduction of buy-able maps? Is there a way around it?

Does it still work for multiplayer? Haven't tried that yet.
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#151 AnKor85

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:01

J5_Rumey, that's very odd.
I don't believe my patching tool does anything special that can cause this error (I already forgot what it does, actually ;) ), but I haven't run it for a long time.
Maybe I will take a look into it, but not right now.

On the other hand, I've seen 'buy map' issues appear in PWCG missions so I suspect it may be a bug in ROF.
Try deleting "mtreecache.*" files (or there may be just one such file for your language like "mtreecache.ger") inside ROF "data" folder to see if anything changes. These files are used to speed up the loading of mission list and will be created again next time you start the game. I believe for some reason they get corrupted sometimes.
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#152 ROSS_DiFiS

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:56

Upd. Version 1.6
Added compatibility with 1.30

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#153 SYN_Vander

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 13:56

Thanks Difis! We have a couple of custom cloud modes we are using successfully on the Syndicate server. I think the clouds we would like to have most is something like a 75-80 % cloud cover, but this is hard to do without high fps or artifacts such as ground clipping.
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#154 theMoxy

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 14:26

I NEED to fly in a thunder-storm! …at night :) ok, ok…nevermind.
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#155 Moxy

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 00:27

~S~ Gents

Mess'n around, and really enjoying the clouds and generator.(1.6)
I noticed in the ski.ini file, cloud, cloud_blur, and cloud_top are calling for tga's

texture="graphics\SKY\cloud.tga"
texture_blur="graphics\SKY\cloud_blur.tga"
texture_top="graphics\SKY\cloud_top.tga"

But in the game files these are dds's

Should I or something be changed?

Thanks

JG1_Heinz "Moxy" Schulte
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#156 vian

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 18:23

Hello!

Thank you for your mod.

Is ROF manages the flow of wind around the mountains, forests, buildings …
Is there any thermals and turbulence in the clouds?
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#157 actionjoe

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 15:31

Is it fully compatible with 1.32b? I have some troubles using it, I follow the instructions gave for the 1.4 and it worked normally until the "patch mission" part.
It seems that I can only patch "empty" missions. I tried to convert already done (multiplayer) missions, and if the program said it has been correctly patched, I cant launch them, nor open them with the mission editor (I have an "can't loading files").
And on the other hand, if the "empty" missions shows the new clouds, these don't appears in the .list file. :?
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515024ActionjoeScreen.jpg


#158 actionjoe

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 14:41

Any idea?
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515024ActionjoeScreen.jpg


#159 actionjoe

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 13:30

I have noticed that unlike other missions that I have that use special sets of clouds (syn_missions), mine, after being patched lack the "media groups", even if the clouds appears in .list and .msbin and .mission. But when I add other things to the mission, they are erased in the .list

Image

Image

Did I missed something or is it working with 1.32?
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#160 SYN_Vander

SYN_Vander
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Posted 05 January 2014 - 14:04

The media group is something I made myself, it's not from Difis' tool.

You can make your own though. Just make sure every file that should be included in the .list has it's own entry in a media mcu. Then every time you save the mission the .list file will look okay and there is no need to "patch" the mission.
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